Questions about reloading some unusual calibers

[Recluse]

Hello all,

I'm about to take a mentor role teaching and helping a young man get into the wonderful world of reloading. Many of the calibers he wants to load for are pretty common. But, there are some that I'm not familiar with. They are:

6.5mm Grendel

.303 Savage

7mm STW

7.65mm ARG

I've found components for the .303 Savage, but it's not a round I'm familiar with. From a bit of research and perusing through some old Lyman manuals, plus the Lyman Cast Bullets book, this caliber appears to be a slighly watered down 30-30.

The 7mm STW (Shooting Times Western) seems to have plenty of components available as well as dies/brass, etc. But again, not a caliber I'm familiar with.

The 7.65 ARG is completely unfamiliar to me, and the 6.5mm Grendel looks to be the most challenging.

Anyone that has knowledge and/or experience loading these up and who can pass on any info. . . it will be hugely appreciated.

This young lad also has his younger sister and his father interested in reloading. I like the thought of adding new shooters into our fold.

:coffee:

[scrapcan]

Recluse,

Do a search on the 303 savage as i think there was a good thread on that caliber under lever guns, not exactly sure though.

The 7.65 arg should have good info under the military and surplus section. 6.5 grendel you may want to look up on one of the ar sites.

I don't load for any of the above so can't really help other than say stay tuned as other will be along soon.

[Maven]

Recluse, You can use starting - mid-range CB loads only for the .308Win. (case is 51mm long) in the Argentine Mauser (case is 53mm long), but you'll need a CBof greater diameter than used in the .308Win., probably ~.313" or .314". Can't help you with the others though.

[Boerrancher]

The 7mm STW is an 8mm Remington Mag necked down to a 7mm. For a starting load use 7mm Rem Mag Max loads, and slowly work your way up, until you find a load that shoots well or start seeing signs of pressure. Your best accuracy loads will be at or slightly above the max loads listed for the 7mm Rem Mag with mid range weight bullets, 150 to 170 gr weight bullets. As far as shooting cast I don't have a clue.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[AZ-Stew]

Info for the .303 Savage and the 7mm STW are available on the Hodgdon Powder web site. Still looking for data for the other two.

Regards,

Stew

[Reddot]

Hey Recluse,

Thank you for doing that. We all need to introduce more people to the shooting sports whether it is through participating in gun safety classes, showing someone how to reload, or teaching someone how to cast.

[Recluse]

Thanks for the info so far. I'm continuing to do my research as well.

Wondering if I can take some 8mm brass I have and resize it to 7mm? I've done this with 30-06 down to .270, and .280 down to .270. Did a very light annealing afterwards, loaded it up and it shot fine--couldnt' tell any difference whatsoever between the sized down rounds and the original .270 brass rounds.

I found some of the .303 Savage stuff here (I am LOUSY, and I mean LOUSY at using search engines on forums) and elsewhere. This one looks pretty easy. I found a lot of component availability--including data--on the 7mmSTW as well.

I've never heard of the 7.65mmARG (I'm not into military guns whatsoever. Had all of them I could stand when I was in the military), and for sure, have no idea what a 6.5mm Grendel is.

Why can't folks just stick with .38 Special, .44 Special/Magnum, .45 ACP and rifle rounds like 30-30, .308, 30-06? [smilie=1:

Jeez I must be getting old--and I ain't that old to feeling this old!

Again, thanks for everyone's help so far. I love introducing folks to reloading and seeing them get hooked. THEN. . . whey they see the casting set-up and I innocently ask, "Here. You wanna try pouring a few boolits for yourself?" :twisted:

:coffee:

[Firebird]

The 7.65x53 Argentine cartridge was for the old Model 1909 Argentine Mauser military rifle, and you can make it from 30-06 brass but it's much easier to just buy it. Midway and Graf's both carry it, though you may want to wait and see if Graf's gets some more of the inexpensive Prvi Partizen brass as the Norma brand brass is pretty expensive.
The 6.5 Grendal I believe is just the 7.62x39 cartridge necked down to 6.5 mm caliber. The brass is pretty expensive also as this is a proprietary cartridge from Alexander Arms (like the 50 Beowulf is ) and other companies have to get their permission to make/sell the brass, ammo, chamber reamers etc.

[ktw]

have no idea what a 6.5mm Grendel is.


The 6.5 Grendel has it's own website/forum
http://www.65grendel.com/

It was a competitor to the 6.8SPC for a better cartridge throwing a bigger bullet than the .223 in the AR platform.

Midway carries dies and brass for it.
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabid=1&categoryid=10208&categorystring=9315***731***702***8344***9261***
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabid=19&categoryid=10206&categorystring=652***670***9013***


-ktw

[Bret4207]

The 303 Savage equals and can surpass the 30-30 factory loads. The loads in the books tend to be conservative due to the many old square bolt Savage 1899's and 99's around. 220 Swift brass can be used to form cases and I'm told 307 Winchester is even better.

[Recluse]

The 303 Savage equals and can surpass the 30-30 factory loads. The loads in the books tend to be conservative due to the many old square bolt Savage 1899's and 99's around. 220 Swift brass can be used to form cases and I'm told 307 Winchester is even better.

Thanks for that info Bret. The .303 Savage in question belonged to the young man's great-grandfather and is pretty old. It is in excellent condition, but nonetheless. . . I'd feel better keeping the loads soft.

Found the 6.5 Grendel site. Looks like an interesting round. Personally I have zero interest in it, but the younger generation seems keen on it, and if it is a superior round to the otherwise useless 5.56 and will keep our boys in uniform in a bit better shape, I'm all for it.

Reloading for it appears to be somewhat challenging, at least initially.

Again, thanks everyone for the great information.

:coffee:

[Boerrancher]

Bret,

The Square bolt Savage Lever guns were 1895's not 99's. That was the problem with them was even in the lighter cals the square bolt design did not distribute the bolt thrust evenly on the receiver, and sent the shock wave out the square corners. By 1898 Mr Savage had figured this out and made the change to the radius bolt and started production in 1899 hence the 99 Savage was born. The Mod 95's are a rarity indeed and if in good shape are worth quite a bit of money. They were only manufactured in part of 95, all of 96, and part of 97. I as a 99 collector have only seen 1 mod 95 in over 20 years of looking for the older Savages.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[klw]

Lyman's Handbook has data on the 7.65x53.

Also if you need loading data, the accurate arms web site can supply that for virtually any old gun, even blackpowder rifles.

[jonk]

The 7.65x53 Argentine cartridge was for the old Model 1909 Argentine Mauser military rifle, and you can make it from 30-06 brass but it's much easier to just buy it. Midway and Graf's both carry it, though you may want to wait and see if Graf's gets some more of the inexpensive Prvi Partizen brass as the Norma brand brass is pretty expensive.
The 6.5 Grendal I believe is just the 7.62x39 cartridge necked down to 6.5 mm caliber. The brass is pretty expensive also as this is a proprietary cartridge from Alexander Arms (like the 50 Beowulf is ) and other companies have to get their permission to make/sell the brass, ammo, chamber reamers etc.

Actually the 7.65X53.5 was developed for the 1889 Belgian Mauser, and became quite popular for the time. The argentine Mauser 1891 was chambered in it, as were the original Turk 93s.

[OeldeWolf]

I reload the 7.65 Arg/7.65 Belgian. I have 1891 and 1909 Arg Mausers. I also make brass from 30-06, but it takes a few steps. BTW: it is a nice round to shoot and load.

In jacketed, I use the bullets designed for the 303 Brit. Just get them around 174 grains. I have found that if you are shooting one of the old military Mausers, using a bullet the same weight as what they were designed, for tends to work best.

[andrew375]

Loads for the .303 savage and 7.65 arg. are in the Lyman cast bullet manual.

[Bret4207]

Bret,

The Square bolt Savage Lever guns were 1895's not 99's. That was the problem with them was even in the lighter cals the square bolt design did not distribute the bolt thrust evenly on the receiver, and sent the shock wave out the square corners. By 1898 Mr Savage had figured this out and made the change to the radius bolt and started production in 1899 hence the 99 Savage was born. The Mod 95's are a rarity indeed and if in good shape are worth quite a bit of money. They were only manufactured in part of 95, all of 96, and part of 97. I as a 99 collector have only seen 1 mod 95 in over 20 years of looking for the older Savages.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

Joe, I have 2 or 3 square bolts- A 25/35 ser #54,000 a bare action with a 28K ser# and a 303 with a 6 digit ser#. I don't have my Savage book handy, but you and I may be talking about 2 different things here. I'm referring to the left hand corner of the bolts seat. The original cut had a tiny radius- a "square bolt" and that's where the cracks started IIRC. Savage reportedly would take these guns back and remachine for a round bolt- that area had a much larger radius amd the cracking stopped. Are we on the same page?