Timing As you Cast

[Johnch]

IMO to a lot of you this might seem normal

But I figured I would pass it along non the less
Also I am on disability so the extra time isn't a problem

This morning I did the first test casting with a new mold that I made

Step 1 Pre heating the mold
I use a hot plate to pre heat molds and to keep molds HOT as I refill the lead pot with molten lead
But just extra casting of expected rejects will work just as well
Then cast some bullets starter bullets
These bullets are not really even looked at other than to confirm 100% fill out
These bullets and the sprue cut offs will be remelted
So IMO don't rush the mold heat up if you want perfect bullets

Step 2 Cast timing
As I cast
I have found that rushing results in more rejects and worse groups
So I take my time
I was casting 350 gr bullets for my 45/70's
I wait maybe 3 seconds longer than I see some others to cut the sprue off ( guessing the length of time )
But I find I get better results when I cast at a slightly slower speed
I admit I only did cast 40 or 45 bullets each of the 2 different nose designs out of a single cavity mold
If I need large numbers of bullets I have 4 and 6 cavity molds

Your thoughts ?

John

[centershot]

Overall, yes, but - I've found that each mold has it's own preferences. Most of my molds are Lee's, they pretty much cast at the same pace, except for two of them. Those two demand a little slower cadence, a couple more seconds before I cut the sprue and a couple more seconds before I empty the cavities. I've jockeyed the pot temp up and down but didn't help. I have two of the 158RNFP molds that I've been using for sixteen years now, they've been bullet-slinging champs from day one! Get the pot up to 700* and they rain bullets, all day long! Love those molds!

[country gent]

I have learned that casting with 2 moulds results in a good cadence for the long bullets I cast. ( 45 cal 500-550 grn, 40 cals 400-425gtrns and 38 cals 330-360 grns.) Letting it sit and "normalize" while I cut the sprue drop and then refill maintains a more constant temp. It lets the peak temp at filling drop and normalize more even. I also run vented sprue plates and overfill the moulds.

[FISH4BUGS]

My cadence is by sight and feel. I watch the sprue harden, then wait a bit and whack it. Wait too long and it is a bit harder to whack. Too quick and you get smearing.
I look at the bullets that come out - too frosty and I slow down. I can keep up a good pace because if need be, I can cool the mould on a damp cloth on the bench. Just roll the mould in it and it cools quickly.
I like them a bit frosty anyway.
Once that rhythm is set, and you keep control of the variables, you can produce a lot of bullets that way.
I use H&G moulds...mostly 4 and 6 cavities.

[dverna]

I value productivity as well as quality. Going slower is one way to address a mold that holds heat more than desired. I prefer to use a damp face cloth; and after pouring, lay the sprue plate on the cloth for a couple of seconds to draw away heat.

I agree that cadence is important. So is hold the melt at the same temperature.

Quality comes from consistency. Anything that reduces variability will enhance quality.

[Larry Gibson]

If using a single [most often this is with 4 or 6 cavity moulds] mould I always adjust the cadence for quality of the cast bullets. I've found that the old adage "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" rings true as casting for quality I end up with much less rejects and, hence, more usable bullets in the long run.

When casting with single or double cavity moulds is cast using 2 or 3 moulds which, by itself, slows the cadence for each moulds use. That also results in fewer rejects and better quality bullets all around.

With single cavity HPs or HB moulds when using a dipper I just slow down the cadence and cast for quality. That works for me.

[jdgabbard]

Well, it depends...

Mold weight, number of cavities, mold material, etc, etc...

In general, an aluminum mold will need to be run faster than a iron or brass mold. Generally it needs to be run a little hotter as well. The smaller the boolit the faster a mold needs to be run to keep mold temp up.

Generally for me, I don't waste my time with a hot plate. I place my mold on the top of the pot when I turn it on, and let it heat up my mold as I head up my melt. After 25 minutes I'm at temp, and ready to cast. First cast might have a few wrinkles. Second cast whether iron, brass, or aluminum is ready to go. I typically use my hand to cut the sprue on 2-cav molds, or a mallet on 4-6 cavity molds. On 9mm and up I let the sprue solidify and count to 5 for aluminum molds, or 10 for brass/iron molds (except 2cav iron, which I also use a 5 count). Anything smaller than 9mm I typically just use a 5 count.

Every once in a while I might have to back off and go a little longer between pours. I might also let my can blow on the sprue plate of the mold to cool it off some. But generally, I run my molds fairly hot, and my melt at 700F.

[georgerkahn]

I do pretty much as Larry Gibson wrote in his post. I generally try to alternate TWO 2-cavity moulds, albeit for my 4-cav I generally do one mould only. For ALL -- I have a small electric fan which I direct on the sprue plate. I'm of the perhaps nutty notion in that I want my moulds to stay warm, with sprue plate cool enough to make a clean cut.
geo

[jsizemore]

I cast with 4, 5 & 6 cavity molds. Aluminum and iron. NOE, H&G, Accurate, Lyman. I use a timer. From the time the last cavity is poured (the one closest to me) and the sprue is cut is 18-22 seconds depending on how the sprue cut looks. PID minds the alloy temp. No lead smear. Thumb pressure will open the sprue plate. I preheat the molds on a hot plate to 375-400 degF (digital thermometer with the thermocouple through the sprue plate hole resting on cavity nose). Set the timer for 90 minutes and when everything is up to temp I start the timer and start casting. Glance at the digital clock after the last cavity is filled and subtract the time. Cut at the right interval and drop the bullets, close reset sprue plate and pour lead into the mold. Glance at time, inspect the previous drop sprue cuts for right time to cut and do it all over again. Very little weight variation. Very good fill out.

[Dusty Bannister]

Most of my casting is for handgun and I use the Lee 6 cavity molds most often. I do not count, but rely upon appearance of the sprue, as well as the base of the bullet when the sprue plate is moved aside as the sprue is cut. If the base of the bullet is shiny, the casting is still too hot and not yet ready to drop from the mold. If I wait too long, it puts extra stress on the sprue place lever, and hinge bolt. I guess it is a combination of sight and feel to find the best casting rate for the individual mold.

I have never really considered tandem casting because one needs a similar mass in the castings to maintain temp in the mold. Also, it is much easier to inspect a pile of bullets for quality and pull the rejects, than to complicate matters by sorting the different bullets, and still trying to inspect for quality. Others may not consider that a problem. Whatever works for the individual at the time.

[gwpercle]

I make the pour ... then count ... 1001 , 1002 , 1003 , 1004 , 1005 ...
then cut the sprue ...
The number can vary depending on the mould and alloy ... but once you get a rhythm going you want to keep that rhythm ... and you don't want to cut the sprue early and smear lead over the block top and under4side of the sprue plate ... because then you Must Stop and clean the smears off ... they just get worse...
Counting is the only way I can evenly pace myself !

I've tried casting with two moulds ... alternating between ... but for some reason I prefer to keep the mould in my left hand , useing my right for the dipper and to open the mould with the mallet ... the mould never leaves my left hand !
Gary

[BrassMagnet]

I have seen a lot of good wisdom here and I use a lot of the tricks others here also use.

I have three basic methods I usually use:

8 cavity mould:
Preheat on a hot plate with a saw blade to even the heat distribution and keep the empty mould hot while I refill lead pots or take a break.
While casting, I keep the mould on a NOE mould guide plate any time I am not cutting sprues or dumping Boolits.
I keep a fan blowing on the mould at all times.
I start and stop the pour for every Boolit. After the last pour, I wait for the sprue surface color to change and then I begin counting. Not 1001 etc, but simply 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. I usually start with 1,2,3 but as time goes by I usually need to add 4, then 5, etc.
I always dump the boolits on a special towel setup I will describe last.

4 Cavity moulds Method One (The Lazy Method!)
I just cast like I am using an 8 cavity mould. If I want a single special rifle boolit or a special boolit that is a strange weight, hollow base or hollow point, or even a very special Single or Double cavity mould such as a Louverin mould where there are an incredible number of square lube grooves. A Nose Pour mould such as a Hoch mould could fall in here, too.

4 Cavity moulds Method Two (The high production method!)
Preheat on a hot plate with a saw blade to even the heat distribution on all of the moulds I might decide to use. They should all have similar boolit weights. Keep the empty moulds hot while I refill lead pots or take a break.
I keep all of the in-use moulds on a well padded with towels cookie sheet and I keep a fan blowing on the moulds on the cookie sheet at all times.
Now comes the tricky part: I start with one mould and cast fast until boolits look good and drop well. The I add a second mould to the mix and I cast fast with mould two and slow with mould one by casting twice with mould two and once with mould one until mould two is casting boolits that look good and drop well. Then I add mould three. The ryhthm for casting fast with mould three is cast with the sequence of mould one, mould three, mould two, mould three, and start over again until mould three is working well. There is a good chance your moulds will start to overheat if you don’t have to break to refill a lead pot. Just add mould four and pour it as every other mould until heated. Usually 3, 4, or 5 moulds will be enough. Do try to keep the boolit weights reasonably close. 44 and 45 go well together as do 38 and 9MM.
I use three lead pots and sometimes a propane heated pot to keep them full.

Single or Double cavity moulds
The same as method one or method two for 4 cavity moulds unless the boolit weight is very light or very heavy. Very light and very heavy boolits are a rule unto themselves. The nose pour moulds I have used have all been heavy and difficult to use. I have a few in more normal weight which might pour just like normal weight moulds. I’ll find out when I have time.

Dificult boolits need special techniques to achieve good results. The normal special technique is to pressure fill the mould and leave a generous sprue.
With a lead dipper, hold the dipper against the mould sprue hole for an extended period of time and count. Then pull the dipper away to pour a generous sprue. After breaking the sprue and dumping the boolit, inspect the boolit and increase or decrease the count for best results. Maybe raise the lead temperature.
With a bottom pour lead pot, hold the lead pot pouring orifice against the mould sprue hole for an extended period of time and count. Then pull the mould away to pour a generous sprue. After breaking the sprue and dumping the boolit, inspect the boolit and increase or decrease the count for best results. Maybe raise the lead temperature.

Note: To use multiple moulds, they really need to be the maker, metal, size, capacity, and similar in boolit weight. So all Lyman 4C, all Saeco 4C, all H&G 4C, etc. Mixing aluminum, brass, and steel moulds just doesn't work!

I always keep one or more specially folded towels on a well padded with towels cookie pan. The front of the towel always hangs over the front of the cookie tray by a couple of inches and the back of the towel is rolled up at the back of the cookie sheet. This way when I dump hot and soft boolits they do not distort by hitting a hard surface. There is plenty of clear area on the towel to rapidly inspect for gross faults and shove them aside for quick remelting. When there isn’t pleny of clear area, I lift up the front edge of the towel and roll all of the boolits to the back up against the rolled up portion of the towel. When the towel begins to run out of space, I pick it up by the corners and gently dump the boolits into a storage box to store them until lubing/sizing them. They get a more thorough inspection on the way to the box, again on the way to the sizer, and a final inspection as they go into a case. There will always be a seperate towel for each mould unless the moulds are truly matched and produce indistinguishable boolits.

[10x]

I pour a large sprue. I watch it solidify and then do a 3 to 10 second count before cutting the sprue and dropping the bullet. I use a heavy leather glove to push the sprue plate rather than striking with a dowel.
The force i use to cut the sprue changes with each mold and each bullet. When it becomes difficult to cut sprue with thumb pressure, I reduce the time, when it cuts too easy , i increase time.
I seldom get reject bullets.

[Rapier]

My method is derived from my using iron moulds only. I never mix mould types or cavity #s. My ingots are kept inside in the AC and heat so the temperature and any humidity are kept consistent. I use a 3/4" thick 4x8 sheet of plywood, outside. setup on two saw horses. with a chair and a 5gal bucket of cold water, with the water covered by two full layers of wet peanuts. I use a short section of 12-2 w ground woven copper wire as a me made, heavy duty 12' long extension cord to power the pour pot. I use only four double cavity moulds, in order to maintain weight and fill. With different calibers and different designs, so sorting the as cast bullets is very easy. When I plug in the Pro Melt the moulds are setting on top of the alloy in the pot, with handles attached. I never use the switch on the pot, just unplug to turn the pot off.
I keep a poured bullet in all of my iron moulds, so the bullet goes in the sprue box before the mould is heated.
When the metal is molten, I remove the moulds, pour one bullet to maintain heat then flux. That bullet is a toss back, in any case. Within two bullets I am casting match quality (less than 1 grain deferential) bullets. My ingots are stacked on the right of the plywood and the sprue box is on the left. My sprue is cut using a leather mallet. I usually cast 100#s of alloy/bullets at a time. The four moulds, are cast in a circlular fashion, 1-4, then repeat, gives me the correct pace for sprue set, full fill, etc. and when I do speed up as I go I have to slow down a bit.
The four moulds Idea came from visiting Bill Rodgers setup for his ammo remanafacturing conpany and watching his bullet casting setup in Jacksonville in the early 80s and watching his four Magcaster bullet casting machines working in a metal building at 100 degrees.
The mould rotation with the water drop, maintains a more consistent temperature of the pour, which is key to consistent bullet weight and fill.
i refill and flux at the 1/2 pot level. Using smaller ingots allows faster recovery or reheat times of added material. Make sure to refill with a hot bullet in the moulds. It takes a couple of bullets to get back to keepers. I use small muffin tins to make ingots. The small round flat muffin shapes add and heat well, when adding material.
I use commercial powdered plumbers flux, stirred with an old stainless steel flat-ware, one off, fork that I found at an estate auction over 60 years ago. I never make alloy in a pour pot.