Barrel Hone Advice?

[hartwickco]

I've picked up some beater shotguns at auctions over the years, and some of them could really use a barrel hone -- a few heavy, a few light.

I watched a video of Larry Potterfield demonstrating a Sunnen hone system that looked great, and I've seen the lighter Flex-Hone brushes as well.

Any experience or advice with either of these styles? The Sunnen video was on the older side, so I wasn't sure what the modern take on it was. I'm open to anything and cost isn't *that* much of an issue. First and foremost, I want what's going to work well.

Also, long-time lurker, first-time poster. I really appreciate the outstanding content and discussions this forum has provided all of us!

[Winger Ed.]

I'd get a fine grit one from Midway or somebody and go slow & careful with it.
It's easy to remove too much with a coarse grit one until you've done a few.

I go by the idea that it's much easier to take metal off of something than it is to put it back on.

[DougGuy]

I watched a video of Larry Potterfield demonstrating a Sunnen hone system that looked great, and I've seen the lighter Flex-Hone brushes as well.

Any experience or advice with either of these styles? The Sunnen video was on the older side, so I wasn't sure what the modern take on it was. I'm open to anything and cost isn't *that* much of an issue. First and foremost, I want what's going to work well.

As a daily Sunnen hone user, I can tell you between the Sunnen and a flex hone there isn't any comparison they are two completely different schools. Let's say you have a tiny dent in a barrel, for instance. The flex hone when it encounters the internal bump caused by the dent, it will polish it and reduce it but it polishes everything surrounding the bump all the way around the barrel and both directions past the bump. The bump provides a bit of resistance which merely pushes the flex hone away from it, and unfortunately into the other side of the barrel which is not dented and doesn't need any metal honed off of it.

The Sunnen hone is mechanically a fixed methodology, there are two shoes on the bottom of the mandrel that keep it squared and centered in the bore, and there is an abrasive stone nestled into a groove on the top of the mandrel, there is a double wedge that moves in the center of the mandrel that expands the stone upward and a good operator can make it hone only on the bump, and not so much the rest of the barrel. It may ride the other side when it is rotating away from the bump, but it will ride loosely until it encounters the bump again and this will lop off a couple of tenths of a thousandth depending on the grit of the stone you are using.

The Sunnen hone is totally controllable. The flex hone, no control whatsoever.

I do use an 800 grit flex hone to polish cylinder throats that I have just honed on the Sunnen hone to a 500 grit finish, it's literally a 15 second swab in each chamber, and 800 grit is too fine to make any measurable differences the way I use it, it's totally cosmetic and it looks slick.

Now, I used the dented barrel scenario to illustrate the differences in each form of honing, just for the sake of answering your question. In reality you wouldn't hone a dent to make the inside straight and smooth, you would use a different kind of expanding mandrel to push the dent out without removing any of the thickness of the barrel.

[hartwickco]

I'd get a fine grit one from Midway or somebody and go slow & careful with it.
It's easy to remove too much with a coarse grit one until you've done a few.

I go by the idea that it's much easier to take metal off of something than it is to put it back on.

Good point. I do have some busted up barrels that are truly useless that I've kept around to test clamps, use as placeholders, etc. so perhaps I could sacrifice the insides of those to get some practice.

[hartwickco]

As a daily Sunnen hone user, I can tell you between the Sunnen and a flex hone there isn't any comparison they are two completely different schools. Let's say you have a tiny dent in a barrel, for instance. The flex hone when it encounters the internal bump caused by the dent, it will polish it and reduce it but it polishes everything surrounding the bump all the way around the barrel and both directions past the bump. The bump provides a bit of resistance which merely pushes the flex hone away from it, and unfortunately into the other side of the barrel which is not dented and doesn't need any metal honed off of it.

The Sunnen hone is mechanically a fixed methodology, there are two shoes on the bottom of the mandrel that keep it squared and centered in the bore, and there is an abrasive stone nestled into a groove on the top of the mandrel, there is a double wedge that moves in the center of the mandrel that expands the stone upward and a good operator can make it hone only on the bump, and not so much the rest of the barrel. It may ride the other side when it is rotating away from the bump, but it will ride loosely until it encounters the bump again and this will lop off a couple of tenths of a thousandth depending on the grit of the stone you are using.

The Sunnen hone is totally controllable. The flex hone, no control whatsoever.

I do use an 800 grit flex hone to polish cylinder throats that I have just honed on the Sunnen hone to a 500 grit finish, it's literally a 15 second swab in each chamber, and 800 grit is too fine to make any measurable differences the way I use it, it's totally cosmetic and it looks slick.

Now, I used the dented barrel scenario to illustrate the differences in each form of honing, just for the sake of answering your question. In reality you wouldn't hone a dent to make the inside straight and smooth, you would use a different kind of expanding mandrel to push the dent out without removing any of the thickness of the barrel.

Wow -- this is a FANTASTIC breakdown, thank you! The appeal of the Sunnen type hone to me was that rigidity. I do see a ton of value in a high-grit flexible hone for the final polish stage, but to take a real crack at some of these old barrels it seemed like a much better fit to have that control you mentioned. Do you have any recommendations on a specific model for a serious-casual?

[Winger Ed.]

perhaps I could sacrifice the insides of those to get some practice.

I do that too when I venture off into uncharted waters.

Years ago, I replaced a Rem700 stock I broke with a high end laminated one.
Practicing on the old stock, and a baseball bat--- I taught myself how to do the checkering on the new one.

[DougGuy]

Wow -- this is a FANTASTIC breakdown, thank you! The appeal of the Sunnen type hone to me was that rigidity. I do see a ton of value in a high-grit flexible hone for the final polish stage, but to take a real crack at some of these old barrels it seemed like a much better fit to have that control you mentioned. Do you have any recommendations on a specific model for a serious-casual?

You can usually find a Sunnen LBA 666 hone, this one is great for small bore stuff like barrels, cyinders, These were originally intended to be a pin hone, fitting pistons and wrist pins to connecting rods for engines, they also hone the big end of the rods.

[akajun]

Brownells sells a kit which is a modified brake cylinder hone
Comes with different grit stones .
That’s what I use, but keep in mind, if it’s badly pitted you bay need a backbore reamer to fully clean it up.
Whatever you use, use a lot of sticky oil, I use way oil, but the flex jobs require a special flex hone oil.

[jdsingleshot]

Just a little unasked-for perspective:

With the plastic wad/shot sleeves of today, honing the bore will not do anything to improve your pattern. It will only make the barrel easier to clean, which also isn't needed much today.

[Rapier]

Excellent point JD. Plastic shot cups only need a relatively smooth bore to function well. A full cut smooth and polished bore is not necessary on old guns. That shiny full cut and polished look, is great for looks, but can be very dangerous for use.

[Texas by God]

If the rust inside the barrel isn’t too “Scabby”,
A bronze bore brush wrapped in coarse steel wool and saturated with Kroil works for me. I chuck the cleaning rod in a cordless drill and go to town on it.
Afterwards wipe it clean and leave a light coat of oil in the clean bore.
Then shoot it for years!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hartwickco]

I do that too when I venture off into uncharted waters.

Years ago, I replaced a Rem700 stock I broke with a high end laminated one.
Practicing on the old stock, and a baseball bat--- I taught myself how to do the checkering on the new one.

Shhhh. We aren't allowed to talk checkering yet, that'll be one of the next threads I start... :)

[hartwickco]

You can usually find a Sunnen LBA 666 hone, this one is great for small bore stuff like barrels, cyinders, These were originally intended to be a pin hone, fitting pistons and wrist pins to connecting rods for engines, they also hone the big end of the rods.

Hmmm -- that model might be a big larger than I can accommodate right now. I was hoping for a setup/takedown type arrangement if possible.

[hartwickco]

Brownells sells a kit which is a modified brake cylinder hone
Comes with different grit stones .
That’s what I use, but keep in mind, if it’s badly pitted you bay need a backbore reamer to fully clean it up.
Whatever you use, use a lot of sticky oil, I use way oil, but the flex jobs require a special flex hone oil.

Thanks, akajun -- that model might be my baseline here for comparison. Seems like a good entry point that would cover most situations.

[hartwickco]

Just a little unasked-for perspective:

With the plastic wad/shot sleeves of today, honing the bore will not do anything to improve your pattern. It will only make the barrel easier to clean, which also isn't needed much today.

I'm glad you mentioned this, it's an important point. The cleaning ease is nice, but a significant reason for me here is probably resale (I do need to pare down how many I've got). On these lower-end beaters, it seems like people pick them up, sight them down, make sure the action works, and then look at the barrel -- a smooth, clean, polished barrel goes a long way in that scenario!

[hartwickco]

Excellent point JD. Plastic shot cups only need a relatively smooth bore to function well. A full cut smooth and polished bore is not necessary on old guns. That shiny full cut and polished look, is great for looks, but can be very dangerous for use.

I'm definitely eager to figure out the right blend here. I'm willing to practice on quite a few to get that balance down... especially on the ones where an over-honed bore would probably only constitute the 7th most dangerous thing about the gun. ;)

[hartwickco]

If the rust inside the barrel isn’t too “Scabby”,
A bronze bore brush wrapped in coarse steel wool and saturated with Kroil works for me. I chuck the cleaning rod in a cordless drill and go to town on it.
Afterwards wipe it clean and leave a light coat of oil in the clean bore.
Then shoot it for years!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think I'd like to sacrifice a few beat-up barrels to try three methods: the simple one you just described, a Flex-Hone treatment, and then a proper stone hone. I have a feeling that it would be useful to be comfortable using all 3, each in the right circumstances.

[rbuck351]

Sunnen is absolutely top of the line when it comes to hones. I have spent many hours in front of a Sunnen rebuilding rods for engines and fitting piston pins. Sunnen makes a unit that you fit in a hand drill for honing valve guides and another for honing engine blocks for fitting pistons. However, I don't know if they make a hone for honing long tubes. A brake cyl type hone would work fairly well if you can find stones with fine enough to get a shiny finish or wrap very fine wet/dry emory cloth around the hone. The ball hones I have used leave a fuzzy looking finish.

As DougGuy said, you will need to remove any dents before using any type of hone other than a ridgid hone.

[hartwickco]

Sunnen is absolutely top of the line when it comes to hones. I have spent many hours in front of a Sunnen rebuilding rods for engines and fitting piston pins. Sunnen makes a unit that you fit in a hand drill for honing valve guides and another for honing engine blocks for fitting pistons. However, I don't know if they make a hone for honing long tubes. A brake cyl type hone would work fairly well if you can find stones with fine enough to get a shiny finish or wrap very fine wet/dry emory cloth around the hone. The ball hones I have used leave a fuzzy looking finish.

As DougGuy said, you will need to remove any dents before using any type of hone other than a ridgid hone.

Hey rbuck -- would there be any reason why that Sunnen drill hone couldn't be stuck onto an 18" or 24" bit extender, like the ones used for installing?

[rbuck351]

Yeah, the part that attaches to the drill and does the adjusting/tightening of the hone is about 2" in diameter. The part that holds the hone blade doesn't detach from the adjusting part and the hone blade is only about 6" long. The piston pin hones are about 10" or 12"long and I don't know if they made any longer ones.

[M-Tecs]

I've picked up some beater shotguns at auctions over the years, and some of them could really use a barrel hone -- a few heavy, a few light.

I watched a video of Larry Potterfield demonstrating a Sunnen hone system that looked great, and I've seen the lighter Flex-Hone brushes as well.

Any experience or advice with either of these styles? The Sunnen video was on the older side, so I wasn't sure what the modern take on it was. I'm open to anything and cost isn't *that* much of an issue. First and foremost, I want what's going to work well.

Also, long-time lurker, first-time poster. I really appreciate the outstanding content and discussions this forum has provided all of us!

both of these have worked well for me.

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/shotgun-tools/shotgun-barrel-hone/?sku=531108002

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/shotgun-tools/shotgun-barrel-polishing-flex-hone/?sku=080607212

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/gunsmithing_0406/100368

[M-Tecs]

Hey rbuck -- would there be any reason why that Sunnen drill hone couldn't be stuck onto an 18" or 24" bit extender, like the ones used for installing?

Sunnen makes a bunch of different style hones for their honing machines and for use in a lathe or hand drill.

One example here. Wished the Sunnen part # for the mandrel was listed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7aZ2vHQ34

[rbuck351]

I wasn't aware that sunnen made that long small bore hone. That would be as good a hone as you could get but it probably won't be cheap.

[M-Tecs]

In the past they did a lot of custom and semi-custom. I've used them for custom jobs a couple of times. Like most quality tools they don't come cheap. Going thru their catalog I came across their line of external hones. Thats a new one on me.

[hartwickco]

both of these have worked well for me.

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/shotgun-tools/shotgun-barrel-hone/?sku=531108002

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/shotgun-tools/shotgun-barrel-polishing-flex-hone/?sku=080607212

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/gunsmithing_0406/100368

That Lisle hone is certainly cheap enough -- I'll very likely pick one of those up if I can find it in stock somewhere, or just wait on Brownells. Definitely worth the experiment as I get comfortable with this.

[hartwickco]

Sunnen makes a bunch of different style hones for their honing machines and for use in a lathe or hand drill.

One example here. Wished the Sunnen part # for the mandrel was listed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7aZ2vHQ34

This is exactly the same video that kicked off my thoughts on all this -- I'm going to try to track down that part number.

[M-Tecs]

This is exactly the same video that kicked off my thoughts on all this -- I'm going to try to track down that part number.

Here you go https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/sunnen-shotgun-hone-price-question.2995974/

"Ive been in contact with Sunnen in the USA,the company that manufactures all different honing devices.They contacted there Irish agents which is where Im from and they recomended a product with the following product code P3G-P20781UA-FO7X.My question is the price they quoted was 1339 EOROS which is roughly $950.Im thinking this seems pretty steep for a simple tool which is powered by an electric drill.I first came across this tool when Iwas searching through Youtube,I saw a guy called Larry Potterfield from Midway USA using it to polish up a shotgun barrel.If anyone has any advise on this I would welcome it,I think the product there quoting me on is perhaps not the tool I saw on Youtube and maybe you guys could advise me of a different product code.Many thanks."

[akajun]

for that price you can send it out and have it back bored and extrusion honed and keep most of that money in your pocket.

[M-Tecs]

Surprised they get by with so little oil.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPAv2vtCXig&t=86s