New jug of H-110?

[Willie T]

I cracked open a new jug of H-110 Friday to monkey with before this cold snap hit. I load a good bit of it between two .357 revolvers, a Marlin .357 carbine, and loading .410. For years my go to load for the carbine has been a Lee gas checked 158 SWC @ .359 and 15.6 grains of H-110 in Starline cases with a heavy roll crimp in the crimp groove. Loaded and shot thousands of these. They run around 1730 fps in my carbine with consistent MOA accuracy. At 63 my eyes are not what they used to be. I need readers to look at my manuals and measurements now. I started putting a 2-7 Leupold on the lever guns when I am working up or testing a load in that carbine. Any how back to opening the new jug of powder. By H-110 standards 15.6 grains is not what I consider hot but around 1730 is historically where it shoots best in my carbine. Opening a new can and all, I set up my chronograph dropped down to 15.3 grains with my normal procedure of working back up to 15.6. Checking velocity as I go. First shot at 15.3 did 1719 fps.
322298
Hmm. Went inside and put the scope on the Marlin and loaded a few more at 15.3 and shot a 100 yard group to confirm what I was seeing. Basically the new can of powder duplicates my old 15.6 grain load with 15.3 grains.
322299
Lot to lot variation within the same powder is worth checking for when opening a new jug of powder.
Willie

[Recycled bullet]

H110 smells like freedom. I like your gun and shooting.

[45DUDE]

Excellent grouping for 100y with a gc lead. Mine will only do 2'' @100y.

[jsizemore]

Same zero and group?

[Willie T]

Same zero and group?

Some speculation on my part on zero but my opinion is yes. I mounted the scope and zeroed it before shooting the group just to check accuracy. Group size is representative of how that carbine shoots that bullet with H-110 at that velocity. I loaded 100 more and took the scope back off. Age is catching up to my eyes though. With the iron sites I can only see good enough to shoot 3 moa @ 100 yards any more. At 50 yards with irons, poi is the same as the 15.6 load. I have no reason to think 100 yards is any different. In the woods where I hunt with it, 50 yards is about as far as I can shoot.

[Randy C]

looks like your doing good with the scope

[Willie T]

looks like your doing good with the scope

Yes sir but it certainly diminishes the balance and handling of that little carbine… kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

[Jadkins87]

Thanks for sharing that being on this forum i am learning more and more by the day once again Thanks

God Bless

JDAS

[jdgabbard]

I really need to get me a lever action 357. They just look like so much fun....

[gc45]

Carbine length levers are so much fun, scope or otherwise. Like you, I need readers having a terrible time with open sites now. My carbine/short barreled Winchester 94 30-30, the side eject model WITHOUT the crossbolt safety, has a leupold 1x4 and while it shoots so very accurate to 100 yds I wish it without the scope. My load uses a Sierra #2020 125 grain HP and 4320 powder loaded close to max.

[Kai]

Out of curiosity, did you try your original load of 15.6gr of the new H-110 and if so what was the velocity and how did they group? Also, much temperature difference shooting the 15.3gr load compared to the last time you shot 15.6gr of the old stuff?

[lar45]

Great group.
I was loading for 2 9.3x57 Mausers. 2 different cans of H4895 gave very different results.

[Iowa Fox]

I cracked open a new jug of H-110 Friday to monkey with before this cold snap hit. I load a good bit of it between two .357 revolvers, a Marlin .357 carbine, and loading .410. For years my go to load for the carbine has been a Lee gas checked 158 SWC @ .359 and 15.6 grains of H-110 in Starline cases with a heavy roll crimp in the crimp groove. Loaded and shot thousands of these. They run around 1730 fps in my carbine with consistent MOA accuracy. At 63 my eyes are not what they used to be. I need readers to look at my manuals and measurements now. I started putting a 2-7 Leupold on the lever guns when I am working up or testing a load in that carbine. Any how back to opening the new jug of powder. By H-110 standards 15.6 grains is not what I consider hot but around 1730 is historically where it shoots best in my carbine. Opening a new can and all, I set up my chronograph dropped down to 15.3 grains with my normal procedure of working back up to 15.6. Checking velocity as I go. First shot at 15.3 did 1719 fps.
322298
Hmm. Went inside and put the scope on the Marlin and loaded a few more at 15.3 and shot a 100 yard group to confirm what I was seeing. Basically the new can of powder duplicates my old 15.6 grain load with 15.3 grains.
322299
Lot to lot variation within the same powder is worth checking for when opening a new jug of powder.
Willie

This is why I started buying 8 lb er's. I got tired of starting over every time I finished a 1 lb er.

[Willie T]

Out of curiosity, did you try your original load of 15.6gr of the new H-110 and if so what was the velocity and how did they group? Also, much temperature difference shooting the 15.3gr load compared to the last time you shot 15.6gr of the old stuff?

No sir I stopped at 15.3. The velocity was all over where I wanted to be. Temps were 35 degrees cooler on the 15.3 load. I had worked up the 15.6 in the summer. I have six bottles of this new lot, all bought at the same time. 15.3 is my new load for a while…
Willie

[dverna]

Using one chronograph reading can be misleading. A .3 gr difference in H110 should give about a 30 fps difference in velocity at the low end you are working at. But you can get that much variation in shot to shot differences with the same load.

It is too bad powder and primers are so expensive. Folks cannot afford to "waste" rounds to do enough testing.

[Willie T]

Using one chronograph reading can be misleading. A .3 gr difference in H110 should give about a 30 fps difference in velocity at the low end you are working at. But you can get that much variation in shot to shot differences with the same load.

It is too bad powder and primers are so expensive. Folks cannot afford to "waste" rounds to do enough testing.
What am I going to pick up with more testing? Lever gun shooting No2 cast MOA @ 100 yards in a pistol cartridge. 100 yard deer hunting load. 100 yard deer hunting cartridge. With this batch of powder the load tightened up with 0.3 grains less powder than the previous load I worked up. I get it that some enjoy nerding out with tests but there is not much meat left on the bone. I think I’m pretty close to the upper limit of what that combination is capable of with the components I’m using.
Willie

[dverna]

What am I going to pick up with more testing? Lever gun shooting No2 cast MOA @ 100 yards in a pistol cartridge. 100 yard deer hunting load. 100 yard deer hunting cartridge. With this batch of powder the load tightened up with 0.3 grains less powder than the previous load I worked up. I get it that some enjoy nerding out with tests but there is not much meat left on the bone. I think I’m pretty close to the upper limit of what that combination is capable of with the components I’m using.
Willie

You missed the point. You altered your load based on one reading. One chronograph reading does not tell you much.

[Willie T]

You missed the point. You altered your load based on one reading. One chronograph reading does not tell you much.

The chronograph combined with the cooler weather was a clue my new lot of powder is more energetic than the old. I tested that hunch with a group. That gave me more useful information than 10 chronograph readings and is the basis for how I went at it.

Edit to add: I started loading long before I had a chronograph like most of us old guys. The ammunition I load now shoots no better than before I had a chronograph. The chronograph does short cut figuring some things out.

Willie

[Tripplebeards]

Nice shooting! Wondering if your Brynell hardness changed in your Boolits? When I go up and down in hardness my groups open and close. The weather temps always play a role in it too which has been talked about. Same with loading your for your overall length if you lengthen or shortened it a tad unknowingly it could’ve caused that too. Same with if you’re crimp style changed or it was a little heavier or lighter for the last time around. A tighter crimp is gonna increase pressures and velocity. Also, check your scale. My old RCBS scale that was 13 years old was not very accurate. Maybe dump. A few powder charges out and re-weigh them after recalibrating your scale or grabbing another one to double check. I don’t put a lot of faith in my chronographs either other than it gives me a good estimate on velocity so I can figure out drops . I don’t rely on them for almost accuracy. If I’m shooting through them at just an If I’m shooting through them at just a hair of an angle or a little higher or lower angle or an hair higher or lower than the previous shot placement my Beta isn’t reliably accurate. Either way you got her dialed in!

[murf205]

WillieT, that's a darned good shooting rifle no matter what it chronos. I went to 2400 instead of H110 because of the blast and flash it creates in handguns but the accuracy of that powder can't be beat for top end loads. My 4" 629 shoots pretty fair with a 429421 Lyman and 2400 but it shoots great with H110. I have read that Accurate 11FS is the equivalent of H110 but with a flash suppressant (FS part). Since you have an 8lb keg, I doubt you will need to find any though. BTW, good shooting on your part.

[Willie T]

Triplebeards, I’m shooting out of the same batch of 50 pounds of SWC’s from the last time I batched up some Lyman No2. So same as before.

Murf, I have a 4 5/8” Blackhawk and a 4” 686. At twilight they both belch quite a fire ball with the H-110.

Willie

[murf205]

When I started hunting with a handgun, I shot a deer in, shall we say, some pretty dim light from inside a shooting house blind. It took a good bit of time for my vision to recover from the flash and my hearing was reduced to saying "huh" for a long time. Ah, youth, and the lessons we learn from dumb mistakes!! LOL But H110 gave me the highest velocities and that's what I was all about then. I'll bet that 1st Model 29 Smth and Wesson I owned was sure glad when I traded it off.

[dtknowles]

You missed the point. You altered your load based on one reading. One chronograph reading does not tell you much.

One valid chronograph reading will tell you about what the velocity is. Close enough for bullet drop calculations and terminal ballistics guestimates. Like the man said, it is good enough for him. I would have shot all the test rounds over the chronograph, the op did not say why he did not.

Tim

[Willie T]

One valid chronograph reading will tell you about what the velocity is. Close enough for bullet drop calculations and terminal ballistics guestimates. Like the man said, it is good enough for him. I would have shot all the test rounds over the chronograph, the op did not say why he did not.

Tim

The juice wasn’t worth the squeeze to me:
I’m not dialing elevation or calculating drop here. This is a 100 yard point and shoot combo for me. Velocity wise I already knew the neighborhood it liked to shoot in with these components. The original load was not worked up with any considerations given to chronograph readings. I only chronographed the load that shoots to put it in my notes to reference when changing powder lots. That worked out with this new jug of powder. Once I knew velocity wise I was pretty close to where I needed to be, accuracy rather than velocity was driving the adjustment of charge weight with the new jug of H-110. What improvement was to be gained?
Willie

[dtknowles]

The juice wasn’t worth the squeeze to me:
I’m not dialing elevation or calculating drop here. This is a 100 yard point and shoot combo for me. Velocity wise I already knew the neighborhood it liked to shoot in with these components. The original load was not worked up with any considerations given to chronograph readings. I only chronographed the load that shoots to put it in my notes to reference when changing powder lots. That worked out with this new jug of powder. Once I knew velocity wise I was pretty close to where I needed to be, accuracy rather than velocity was driving the adjustment of charge weight with the new jug of H-110. What improvement was to be gained?
Willie

Easy squeezy for meezy. Had the chrono out for one shot, why not record them all. I shoot groups over my chrono all the time.

Tim

[Willie T]

Easy squeezy for meezy. Had the chrono out for one shot, why not record them all. I shoot groups over my chrono all the time.

Tim

The light was flat today and suited my eyes to get the carbine back out and see what I could do. In bright sunshine I can’t do as well with the irons. I read some comments on here from time to time about cherry picking internet groups. 5 shots rested with the iron sights @ 100 yards to confirm the load. Groups opening up with the irons is why I use a scope when I’m working on a load these days. The carbine is actually printing about 1” high with a 6 o’clock hold. At age 63, the best I can see at 100 yards anymore is to center a fine bead on the diamond. Chronograph or not, a solid load @ 15.3 with the new lot of H-110. The data I originally used working the load up is in Lyman’s 4th. It shows 15.9 max with a Lyman plain base 158 grain cast with Lyman No2 sized to .358. I’m shooting gas checked Lee SWC’s sized @ .359. It also recommended to keep velocity at or below 1,600fps with micro grooves for accuracy… the load is MOA. With irons, I am not!

Willie
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