Anyone use W231 in 30-06?

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I love Unique in 30-06, but I'm running low. Was wondering if anyone has used W231/HP38 in 30-06? I'm using a Lee 155 gr GC bullet.

Thanks!

[poppy42]

Ah I doubt it

[Tall]

That would be a severely underperforming round. W231 is a great revolver powder for anything from 38 Special to 45 Colt but it is way too fast for any rifle cartridge, especially one as large as the 30-06.

[53slf]

I have and I do. It's not a hunting round of course, but I no longer hunt with my Ruger #1 RSI in 30-06. Full power loads are unpleasant for me in this light weight rifle so I down load so I can shoot more at the range. I just like to shoot at 50 to 100 yards with open sights. There are stickies here telling how it's done safely.

[mehavey]

Actually . . .

QL tells me Unique & W321 perform very closely -- and for similar powder weights -- in heavy-cast 30-06 loads.
(But I wouldn't suggest it without that self-same Quickload and a chronograph.)

[sigep1764]

I'd say start low at maybe 5 or 6 grains and let it rip. With 231, you might need to tip the barrel up to let the powder settle near the primer. 231 isn't nearly as fluffy as unique or red dot.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

there is Blue dot loads discussed here many times.
I recall people saying titegroup works as well, as it isn't position sensitive.

[mehavey]

5 or 6 grains....
Unfortunately, that low a charge may not break 800fps out of a 22" barrel.

FOR Jayhawkhuntclub: What bullet weight/charge Unique are you using now?

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

17.0 grs of Unique and, as mentioned, a 155 gr boolit (Lee GC-312-155-2R). I've went as high as 20 gr Unique with no problems, but 17 was more accurate.

[ShooterAZ]

Here is an article that you may find useful. I use a lot of Bullseye and Red Dot in reduced cast bullet rifle loads, but if I didn't have any I wouldn't hesitate to use W231. It's slightly faster than Unique, but should still work well. I hope this helps.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/updatedburnrateschart-1.pdf

[Soundguy]

748 or 760 could work..but not 231 imho....

[mehavey]

17.0 grs of Unique and, as mentioned, a 155 gr boolit (Lee GC-312-155-2R)At an OAL 0f 3.34" in a 22" barrel, Quickload tells me . . .

- 17gr UNIQUE: 31,000 psi / 1,868 fps
- 17gr W231: 31,000 psi / 1,782 fps

It would take 18.5gr W321 at 35,000 psi to again hit ~1,862 fps


Lawyerspeak: YMMV. Take a chronograph

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

At an OAL 0f 3.34" in a 22" barrel, Quickload tells me . . .

- 17gr UNIQUE: 31,000 psi / 1,868 fps
- 17gr W231: 31,000 psi / 1,782 fps

It would take 18.5gr W321 at 35,000 psi to again hit ~1,862 fps


Lawyerspeak: YMMV. Take a chronograph

Very interesting. Thanks! I've never chronoed the 17 Uni load. I was assuming it was around 1700 fps. My COL is 3.145" (FWIW).

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I have about 6lbs of Bullseye. Any suggestions on loads for it with the Lee 155 gr in 30-06?
Thanks!

[RickinTN]

Read Ed Harris article about "The Load". Red Dot is one of the favored loads, at 13 grains. 231 Is an appropriate powder to substitute for Unique, but probably not grain for grain although close. Bullseye is a good powder to use for reduced loads with cast. One of the Cast Bullet Handbooks probably list data for the Bullseye and maybe 231. Outpost, or Larry Gibson hopefully will be along soon with their answer to your question. You can put confidence in what they say as they have "been there, done that".
Good Luck to you!
Rick

[ShooterAZ]

I have about 6lbs of Bullseye. Any suggestions on loads for it with the Lee 155 gr in 30-06?
Thanks!

I'll post the Ed Harris rifles link again here for ya... 7 grains of Bullseye looks like a winner.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

[mehavey]

At OAL: 3.145" for that 155gr Lee / 22" barrel

17gr Unique: 33,200 psi 1,890 fps
17gr W231: 33,117 psi 1,806 fps

Ballpark only of course, but it does say still relatively low[er] pressures


FWIW: 7gr Bullseye is predicted 1,200 fps

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Thanks everybody for the help! I appreciate it.

Mehavey, Thanks for the updated info!

[charlie b]

These guys have some data on it.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[Hick]

You've got a lot of good info above already-- but to add-- W231 is a standard in my M1 Garand for heavy sub-sonic loads (7.5 grains W231 under a 195 grain cast bullet at 1050 fps) and also slightly faster (14 grains under a 210 grain cast bullet @ 1450 fps). I'm sure you realize its a big case and you have to be very careful to not do a double or triple charge.

[jaysouth]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Here you go

[Outpost75]

I have about 6lbs of Bullseye. Any suggestions on loads for it with the Lee 155 gr in 30-06?
Thanks!

The M1909 gallery practice load was 8 grains of Bullseye with the Ideal #308241 154-grain plainbased bullet. The M1919 Guard cartridge was 9 grains of Bullseye with the 150-grain FMJ M1906 Ball bullet.

I have found that 4 grains of Bullseye the minimum charge which will reliably exit the barrel of an '03 Springfield with a 150-170-grain cast bullet similar to #311241 or #311291.

I have found best accuracy with the 155-grain Lee bullet at 7-8 grains of Bullseye.

Do Not Exceed the 9 grains of Bullseye. Use No Filler!

[justindad]

Interesting topic. I never would have thought W231 could go in a 30-06. I wonder if True Blue would work too?

[ShooterAZ]

If you want to try something really fun with your 30-06, buy yourself the Lee TL 314-90 SWC mold and cast up some bullets with it. I just use range scrap or WW, size it to .311, and lightly tumble lube it with Lee Liquid Alox lube. I load this bullet with 3.2 grains of Bullseye, and it's a surprisingly accurate and very economical plinking or small game load.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010195352?pid=115225

[Hick]

Interesting topic. I never would have thought W231 could go in a 30-06. I wonder if True Blue would work too?

Just about any pistol type powder will work in 30-06-- but some better than others. There are things, however, to worry about. The biggest is that really fast burning powder in the large cartridge makes the round a "firecracker." That is, instead of being like a rocket where the fuel burns slowly from back to front, it all goes off pretty much at once. This means your loads cannot be large because of the pressure spike. Also-- some are more position sensitive than others-- only testing will show. Finally, of course, you have to be very careful to verify every charge, as it is easy to fit in a double, triple or even bigger load. When I use pistol powders I work with a single stage press, charge 50 cases, then shine a flashlight in the cases and check that every single one has the same level of powder.

[blackthorn]

Quote: "Just about any pistol type powder will work in 30-06-- but some better than others."

The above quote triggered a question in my mind. Are there specific powders (not either rifle or shotgun) useful/designed only for handgun cartridges, or are all shotgun powders useable??

[mehavey]

Got a Lee 312-155-2R last night
Cast last night
Sized/ALOX'd/baked/dried this morning/afternoon
Shot late this afternoon.
W231 in 30-06 (for the search engines)

for calibration only:

322451

[mehavey]

Just for fun....

For the search engines:
- 30-06
- Model 70
- Lee 312-155-2R
- Lyman#2
- WST Shotgun Powder

322682
Leupold 3x10

Standard/Raw Case Prep/No Crimp
Ignition lousy (950-1200fps spread, scattered over 1++" at 50 yards)

ADD: Annealing plus Lee FCD and you see the results

[mehavey]

Pushed out to 100....

Froggy/Drizzly day.

322731

[Lance Boyle]

Just for fun....

For the search engines:
- 30-06
- Model 70
- Lee 312-155-2R
- Lyman#2
- WST Shotgun Powder

322682
Leupold 3x10

Standard/Raw Case Prep/No Crimp
Ignition lousy (950-1200fps spread, scattered over 1++" at 50 yards)

ADD: Annealing plus Lee FCD and you see the results


Well done and thank you for sharing.

I have been wondering about using my more”modern” powders when my Unique and SR4759 are gone. I have WST and some other Clays and Clays International. I hear clays gets spooky at the upper end of pustol,loadings so I won’t try it in .30 cal rifles.

[cricco]

An old timer gave me a recipe for shooting my 1903 Springfields. I use the Squib bullet mould, and 6.2 grains of W 231. It’s a paper puncher only, but is quite accurate out to 200 yards. I’m setting my sight ramp for 700 to hit the bullseye at 200 though.

[upnorthwis]

I use 8 gr. of 231 in both the 03A3 and K31 with the LBT 117 gr. bullet. Makes a great offhand 100 yd. paper punching load. Even has enough horsepower to take out 50 yd. full size chickens.