Shooting round ball in centerfire case

[danyboy]

Would loading a .330" round ball for a .315" bore/ .325" groove size barrel be risky ? Apparently, French army was doing it for practice with their Berthier but no idea how big those balls were. Just wanna make sure before trying it out. Used to cast .003" larger than groove size bullets but only used round balls in black powder guns before.

[Bazoo]

No, it'd be completely fine at only .005 over groove, and only for a very small portion of the ball.

[15meter]

May want to try rolling them in Lee Liquid Lube for a little bit of lubricant.

I did this ~35 years ago in a .308 Winchester chamber Mauser. Think I used 00 buckshot for plinking loads. But wouldn't swear to it.

[bimus]

The Speer manual I used in the 80's had loads for pistols using round balls. In a rifle firing a buckshot-sized ball, it would be interesting to see if a magnum primer even gets the ball out of the barrel. What a great project.

[danyboy]

No, it'd be completely fine at only .005 over groove, and only for a very small portion of the ball.
Now I feel safer, thanks.

[danyboy]

May want to try rolling them in Lee Liquid Lube for a little bit of lubricant.

I did this ~35 years ago in a .308 Winchester chamber Mauser. Think I used 00 buckshot for plinking loads. But wouldn't swear to it.
You sure ? .330" balls in a .308" groove barrel ? Amazing!

[danyboy]

May want to try rolling them in Lee Liquid Lube for a little bit of lubricant.

I did this ~35 years ago in a .308 Winchester chamber Mauser. Think I used 00 buckshot for plinking loads. But wouldn't swear to it.
For sure, I'll do. You tried .330" round balls in a .308" groove barrel ? You have more balls than I do .

[danyboy]

Apparently French Army let its soldiers practice with round balls at close range with their Berthier rifles.

[725]

I load .457 rb's in the .45-70 case with 9 gr of unique. a fine plinker & enough for small game.

[dtknowles]

You will not have a problem with the round balls causing high pressure. They are soft. You will learn other problems. One is loading them in the case. Definitely don't size the cases, or you will need to expand the necks so they don't shave lead loading them. If you already cast bullets for that gun, try running the round balls thru your sizer to make tiny wadcutters. That will make them the right diameter for sized cases. Powder charges will be more of an issue. You did not mention the cartridge but I am expecting like a full size rifle cartridge. That will make them powder position sensitive with a small powder charge in a large case. You will need to use an easy to ignite fast powder with such a small charge in a large case. Be careful to avoid double charges as you will not be able to see the difference looking in the case. You might want to try a bit of lube on top of the ball in the mouth of the case. Probably not necessary but still easy to apply, just scrap the mouth of the case on a stick of soft lube. That is what I have done with a 30-30.

Tim

[Gray Fox]

To avoid double charging a case, just change your loading sequence; throw your charge, with say a Lee or improvised dipper, then seat the ball. You're probably not going to load a bunch of these at any one time, so just repeat this process as many times as you want to.

[danyboy]

Cartridge is a Lebel 8x50R . Am thinking about using one section of toilet paper and push it down against the powder. Remember doing it withMauser 11.15 x 60R and smokeless powder. I am not expecting super accuracy with this fast 1:9 twist but just doing it for fun.

[dogrunner]

Another approach is to emboss a ring at the juncture of the case neck and ctg body..........similar to a cannalure...........you can then load as you determine. Multiple balls make a good small game load loaded on the light side.

[Thumbcocker]

It works fine with size 0 buckshot rolled in liquid lube in .30-30,.30-06, and .30-40.

[racepres]

It works fine with size 0 buckshot rolled in liquid lube in .30-30,.30-06, and .30-40.

And 300 Savage too..with a small charge of Red Dot, I can get down to 22RF velocity/energy!!!

[Bazoo]

For round balls that are slightly too large to chamber, its common practice to size them in a push through sizer.

Speer tested progressively larger diameter bullets in 38 special and found that the increase in diameter didn't increase pressure in the manner that we would think. Their findings demonstrate it's not a variable that we need to be concerned about from a pressure standpoint. Perhaps it was in Speer #2 or #4 manuals?

It's common for people to run 8mm (.321-.323) sized bullets in the 7.5×55mm Swiss, which have .307-.308 bores and they don't have any issues with pressure.

[BK7saum]

Cartridge is a Lebel 8x50R . Am thinking about using one section of toilet paper and push it down against the powder. Remember doing it withMauser 11.15 x 60R and smokeless powder. I am not expecting super accuracy with this fast 1:9 twist but just doing it for fun.

Be careful about compressing the powder with tissue or filler. You run the risk of ringing the chamber. This may ot may not apply to light loads with round ball, but light loads with smokeless powder and boolits have ruined a few chambers by ringing. Just FYI.

[racepres]

Be careful about compressing the powder with tissue or filler. You run the risk of ringing the chamber. This may ot may not apply to light loads with round ball, but light loads with smokeless powder and boolits have ruined a few chambers by ringing. Just FYI.

Good Point.. Why I use Red Dot...No Filler required, nor desired!!!

[longbow]

From my experience using 0.440 RB's in .44 mag. you will not get those 0.330" RB's in the case mouth without shearing lead. I wound up sizing mine down a bit then they seated without shearing lead. If you ran those balls through a sizer first they should work fine.

I wouldn't worry about the largest size you can get into the case neck and still chamber because as said above they are not only relatively soft but there is little bearing area so they will swage to groove diameter very easily. I just doubt you will seat that size ball without shearing lead.

Small charges of fast powder should work well without filler. If you want to use a filler then a puff of Dacron that fills the empty space will hold the powder against the primer but no danger or ringing the chamber... this is not packed down! A small piece of Dacron puff about 1/2" square is pushed into the cartridge with a toothpick or finishing nail or... so that it is not compressed and fills the void. With most fast powders like Red Dot this is not necessary.

Okay then rereading I only saw the 0.315" bore. Doh! At 0.325" groove the balls aren't that much oversize but may still shear some lead when seated if not sized. I was using 0.440" RB's in a Marlin 1894 with 0.4315" groove diameter but the brass was sized in carbide dies so for 0.429" boolit. I belled the case mouths but still sheared a lead ring. Mine were being sqeezed down about 0.010"/0.012" though. It is easy to try though and if they don't shear you will be good. If they do then try sizing down. They should shoot fine at low to moderate velocity.

Longbow

[gnoahhh]

I use an original, made in 1895 by Frankford Arsenal, bronze .30 roundball mold. It casts balls that are .309 diameter for a snug press fit in .30-40 Krag brass. I also made a tool to make indentations in the case neck to keep the ball from being inadvertently pushed the whole way through the neck, four evenly spaced around the case neck. 5 grains of Bullseye and a large pistol primer is plenty to drive it with authority. I lube the ball after thumb seating by smearing a bit of Javelina 50/50 on the ball/case mouth juncture.

Evidently this mold was made for issue to Army units for indoor gallery practice with the then-new Krag rifle. Accuracy is good enough to hit a half dollar-sized target more often than not at 50 feet.

https://i.imgur.com/AxNMJJYl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mS8b9idl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jnQRlUpl.jpg

The pics don't relate the scale of the thing. It's pretty massive and weighs a couple pounds.

De-and re-capping is done with another Frankford Arsenal tool, albeit more modern than the mold. It was made in 1909:

https://i.imgur.com/nVdPMcrl.jpg

The tool I made to stake the indentations in the case necks (the press is a little arbor press dated 1911 for "dental appliances", whatever that was, and is quite useful for many little chores on the loading bench):

https://i.imgur.com/ndQ0No4l.jpg

[Thumbcocker]

Thanks for posting pics of those neat old molds and tools.

[Texas by God]

Bazoo, how would a person be able to seat a .323” bullet in a 7.5(.308”) case- and how would you get it to chamber as a “8x55”?
Your last paragraph has me confused.


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[Oily]

In 8mm mauser i use OO buck with a 22 lr case full of tite group. Case is not sized but simply hard thumb seat the shot. 25 yard minute of rabbit with my overly long rabbit rifle 38 turk at 300 m setting. Wouldn't want to hunt very long with this rascal

[Bazoo]

Bazoo, how would a person be able to seat a .323” bullet in a 7.5(.308”) case- and how would you get it to chamber as a “8x55”?
Your last paragraph has me confused.


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They have excessive diameter in the neck portion of the chamber. I have a friend that loads for one, so I've read about it some as a result.

Here's a post by the OP even on the subject. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?175487-Schmidt-Rubin-1889-bullet-size

[trapper9260]

I use 00 buck size down to .310 for the 30 cals of 30-30, 308 win and 30-06 and lube them with Alox,, water down with lighter fluid . Make a good small game load also. They also work good in the 32 cal handgun loads when sized down if needed.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

It was/is not uncommon to size round balls through a push through size to get closer to the size desired. Mostly done with common buckshot, 0 Buck sized to .310 for the 30 cals, 000 for 35's, a way to get bullets without casting, usually inexpensive and lots of bullets in 5lb bag. A coating of lube does help.

[racepres]

It was/is not uncommon to size round balls through a push through size to get closer to the size desired. Mostly done with common buckshot, 0 Buck sized to .310 for the 30 cals, 000 for 35's, a way to get bullets without casting, usually inexpensive and lots of bullets in 5lb bag. A coating of lube does help.
All of my round ball loads get the end dipped in LLA... don't take much. and, easy!!!

[Texas by God]

Thanks, Bazoo.
I see that it was with an 1889 Schmidt Rubin.
That explains it; I was thinking of the K31 that I had.


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[Bazoo]

Thanks, Bazoo.
I see that it was with an 1889 Schmidt Rubin.
That explains it; I was thinking of the K31 that I had.


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I know my buddy has several of the swiss rifles, and at one time had one of each of the varieties. They are an interesting gun and evolution. Kinda wonky feeling to shoot though if you're used to a turnbolt.

[Nobade]

Just had to chime in, I was shooting my 32 cal muzzleloader today with #1.5 buckshot, .310". So for grins I tried it in the 30-30 over 1.7 grains of Bullseye since I had been loading 32 Long also. Works great! Point of aim at 25 yards and tiny groups. Game warden might have words with me if I got caught hunting squirrels with a 30-30 though.

[nanuk]

Game warden might have words with me if I got caught hunting squirrels with a 30-30 though.

in my jurisdiction, squirrels are protected fur bearers... can't hunt them at all without a trapper's license

BUT the workaround, they are so destructive on the farm, you can dispatch them as pests

I am not sure I'd want to eat one though... they eat mostly spruce/pine seeds. could taste... funny.

[nanuk]

I just had another thought

awhile back, I was trying to get .312 dia revolver bullets to seat in a 30-30 case

they ALL ended up tipped, bulging one side out, and if they DID seat straighter, they buckled the case a bit so as to not chamber

I ended up pulling the mandrel out of my Lee sizer die and ran the whole shebang up into it, swaging it straight

made it straight, easy to chamber, and look like it should. bullet stayed tight in the case also, no noticeable spring back.

I wonder if one could use an M die style expander to allow the round ball to just drop in, then put a crimp to hold it, or using a LEE sizer to bring the diameter back down just so it can chamber
you could expand it down just enough so the ball seats just below the equator, then crimp over the top?

might work for plinking?

[Nobade]

You could probably either thumb press or use a mallet to push a ball into the mouth of a fired case and it would stay. At least that's how it worked with my 30-30. I could re-use the same case with nothing but changing the primer, no other sizing. A ball is a lot easier to line up compared to a bullet.

[8x33]

I use .330 roud balls (tumbled in Lee Alox) for my 8x33 K98k.
Expanding the mouth of the case and crimp carefull, charge is 4,0 grs Bullseye.
Works fine for me at range of 50 meters...

[Charlie Horse]

in my jurisdiction, squirrels are protected fur bearers... can't hunt them at all without a trapper's license

BUT the workaround, they are so destructive on the farm, you can dispatch them as pests

I am not sure I'd want to eat one though... they eat mostly spruce/pine seeds. could taste... funny.

You need to try one that's lived on field corn and acorns.:wink: