I purchased my first electronic reloading scale? Leveling?

[barnetmill]

I have had experience with laboratory instruments prior to retiring including scales and balances.

I purchased a basic lyman pro-touch 1500 desktop reloading scale.

I see it has no leveling bubble and no adjustments underneath to level it. I will likely buy a steel plate and with a leveling bubble. I think I should level it and fix it to a solid work bench. I also will need to arrange a clear plastic box with hinged front and top to keep the wind off of it.

Am I maybe over doing it here.

Is any of this a concern with others here.

I have only in the past used beam balances balances for reloading and they are quite dated.

[poppy42]

You are. If it sits flat, your fine.

[bimus]

I have been using an electric scale I bought from Cabela's maybe 20 years ago and found it likes to sit in one spot and not be put away and be kept level I made a standout of 1/4 plate with carriage bolt on each corner with a jam nut to lock it level then used the bubble on the scale to fine-tune then cover with a clear bowl when not in use. My RCBS scale sits next to it because I'm always checking one against the other.

[DaleT]

Definitely over thinking. I have one of those Lyman 1200's from about 12 to 15 years ago . I do leave it one place and I actually leave it turned on and ready to go.

[Land Owner]

Ditto.

PACT electronic scale ==> always ON. Double checked several times over a decade (when it was raining, and I had nothing else to do) and it is right in line with two balance beam scales.

[hawkeye1]

I would think if your bench is pretty close to level your scale should be ok. But the leveler the better. I have a Hornady electronic measure and my bench is good and level, but I leave mine on a piece of granite that was left over when I redid my kitchen cabinets. I have a pic but won’t upload.

[country gent]

I made leveling plates for my early Charge master and scales. Made a big difference in the charge master not only weights but in keeping the eye aligned.

My plates are made from 1/2" thick aluminum plate with 3 leveling feet No levels in them I just use a precision level on them and level in both directions.

My plates are slightly bigger than the scales I used 5/16 fine set screws for the feet Roughly 1 on center line and 3/8 in from edge and 2 3/8" in from each edge on the other end. I think I used 1" long set screws. Started with the tops flush with the tops. The fine thread makes leveling easier. 3 feet sit very solid and no rock. the weight of the plate and 3 feet makes a very stable base. 1 foot could be a fixed pin even with the 2 movable adjusting to it.

They arnt hard to make and add confidence accuracy and peace of mind to the set up.

[barnetmill]

I would think if your bench is pretty close to level your scale should be ok. But the leveler the better. I have a Hornady electronic measure and my bench is good and level, but I leave mine on a piece of granite that was left over when I redid my kitchen cabinets. I have a pic but won’t upload.
Often I have seen stone of a polished sort underneath balances. It is meant dampen vibrations and likely is better than metal for more one just one reason.

[country gent]

Stone normally dosnt have a magnetic field or static to disturb instruments.

[barnetmill]

Stone normally dosnt have a magnetic field or static to disturb instruments.
That was my thought also, but I would say ''most'' stone in closer to being inert for such things and maybe for other things too.

[country gent]

Some stone also dosnt have the expansion of metals. Not a big deal for this application but on a big cmm expansion becomes an issue.

The biggest thing on mounting a scales is it being vibration free. a surface thats bouncing and jumping around the scale will not settle. bump or jar will start the settling process all over.

At times I have set the scales on a stand beside the loading bench separate from it so the press dosnt have any influence. On the old mechanical I would raise the beams up off the knife edges so they wouldnt be sitting there working 24-7 even when not in use. The electronics with their load cells are a big step ahead in this area. But they can have a long settle time to.

[barnetmill]

Some stone also dosnt have the expansion of metals. Not a big deal for this application but on a big cmm expansion becomes an issue.

The biggest thing on mounting a scales is it being vibration free. a surface thats bouncing and jumping around the scale will not settle. bump or jar will start the settling process all over.

At times I have set the scales on a stand beside the loading bench separate from it so the press dosnt have any influence. On the old mechanical I would raise the beams up off the knife edges so they wouldnt be sitting there working 24-7 even when not in use. The electronics with their load cells are a big step ahead in this area. But they can have a long settle time to.

I probably need to add a surge protector for it or keep it disconnected when not in use.

[popper]

Country Gent is correct. Also watch for air drafts.

[barnetmill]

Country Gent is correct. Also watch for air drafts.
He discussed that in a private message he made his set for that. Just general protection the inverted glass bowl sounds like a good idea that was mentioned above.

[W.R.Buchanan]

He was talking about a "Granite Surface Plate." They come in all sizes and you can pic one up from various machine tool suppliers. It is definitely over kill for this!

I had one of the Lyman Electronic Powder Dispensers, it was way to finicky for me, and having to let it warm up for 30 minutes before it started working right, was not what I was looking for. I sold it!!!< and now use either my 10-10 or a $25 Franklin Arsenal Electronic Scale to drop charges. I am not shooting Bench Rest so +/- .1 gr is plenty good enough, and the 10-10 will count individual grains of powder if I need to.

You might consider your actual needs for your ammo before going down this Rabbit Hole. 99% of us could get satisfactory results using Lee Powder Scoops !!! :veryconfu If you are "Chasing Groups," maybe not?

I don't chase groups and I don't try myriad powders and other loading minutia. Once I see a group that is usable for what I want to do, I'm done, and I go shoot something. I do a little research in several manuals before I select a powder and load and most times it is the first one I try that delivers what I'm looking for. YMMV

My cynical .02

Randy

[barnetmill]

He was talking about a "Granite Surface Plate." They come in all sizes and you can pic one up from various machine tool suppliers. It is definitely over kill for this!

I had one of the Lyman Electronic Powder Dispensers, it was way to finicky for me, and having to let it warm up for 30 minutes before it started working right, was not what I was looking for. I sold it!!!< and now use either my 10-10 or a $25 Franklin Arsenal Electronic Scale to drop charges. I am not shooting Bench Rest so +/- .1 gr is plenty good enough, and the 10-10 will count individual grains of powder if I need to.

You might consider your actual needs for your ammo before going down this Rabbit Hole. 99% of us could get satisfactory results using Lee Powder Scoops !!! :veryconfu If you are "Chasing Groups," maybe not?

I don't chase groups and I don't try myriad powders and other loading minutia. Once I see a group that is usable for what I want to do, I'm done, and I go shoot something. I do a little research in several manuals before I select a powder and load and most times it is the first one I try that delivers what I'm looking for. YMMV

My cynical .02

Randy
At the moment I am only interested in getting close to max loads in some applications.
For example
I am trying to get a 40 S&W using longshot powder as safely fast as I can for black bear self defense and with lighter bullets with as little drop as possible at a distance.
At the moment I am not chasing groups. I might be doing so in the future.

[Mike W1]

FWIW. pix of my setup for scales. Adjustable for level and lead ingot weighted so they don't slide around.

322210

322212

[W.R.Buchanan]

At the moment I am only interested in getting close to max loads in some applications.
For example
I am trying to get a 40 S&W using longshot powder as safely fast as I can for black bear self defense and with lighter bullets with as little drop as possible at a distance.
At the moment I am not chasing groups. I might be doing so in the future.



WARNING: !!!! Please,,, Do Not Under Any Circumstances Hotrod the .40 S&W !!! Small Increases in Charges, Different Bullet Styles, and Minute Changes in Seating Depth and Crimp Style, can and do, equate to Dramatic Changes in Pressure, and thus Gun Blow Ups. Of all the calibers you can reload this one is the most finicky and has the Track Record to prove it.

I Always Recommend that if you need High Performance Ammo, you go buy a box of Factory Loaded Ammo like Hornady Critical Defense or similar. For the use you state, you will probably never shoot a full box of 50 each. If you are planning on Shooting it in a Carbine like a Ruger PCC, or Kel-Tec Sub 2000? I have both and you can get much higher performance from the Rifles (100 yards) than you can from any Pistol and those are the same exact loads I shoot in my Pistols. I use two different bullets 165 gr plated and 175 gr Cast both with 5.4 gr of W231 loaded on my D550B. In my Glocks this load generates around 900 fps and in the rifles more like 1100-1150 fps.

Longshot Powder is NOT mentioned for the .40 S&W in any of the manuals I have.

It would be much safer to relegate your .40 S&W loading to a Standard Load used for Target Shooting, and other Practice Shooting, and buy factory ammo for HD or Bear protection. The .40 S&W is not really suited for Bear Protection, even if you could hit said Bear that is charging you? Luckily Black Bears are generally are charging in the opposite direction as soon as they see or smell you any way. Mama Bears being the exception.

Anyway good luck and stay safe.

Randy

[barnetmill]

WARNING: !!!! Please,,, Do Not Under Any Circumstances Hotrod the .40 S&W !!! Small Increases in Charges, Different Bullet Styles, and Minute Changes in Seating Depth and Crimp Style, can and do, equate to Dramatic Changes in Pressure, and thus Gun Blow Ups. Of all the calibers you can reload this one is the most finicky and has the Track Record to prove it.

I Always Recommend that if you need High Performance Ammo, you go buy a box of Factory Loaded Ammo like Hornady Critical Defense or similar. For the use you state, you will probably never shoot a full box of 50 each. If you are planning on Shooting it in a Carbine like a Ruger PCC, or Kel-Tec Sub 2000? I have both and you can get much higher performance from the Rifles (100 yards) than you can from any Pistol and those are the same exact loads I shoot in my Pistols. I use two different bullets 165 gr plated and 175 gr Cast both with 5.4 gr of W231 loaded on my D550B. In my Glocks this load generates around 900 fps and in the rifles more like 1100-1150 fps.

Longshot Powder is NOT mentioned for the .40 S&W in any of the manuals I have.

It would be much safer to relegate your .40 S&W loading to a Standard Load used for Target Shooting, and other Practice Shooting, and buy factory ammo for HD or Bear protection. The .40 S&W is not really suited for Bear Protection, even if you could hit said Bear that is charging you? Luckily Black Bears are generally are charging in the opposite direction as soon as they see or smell you any way. Mama Bears being the exception.

Anyway good luck and stay safe.

Randy
Thanks for the concern and warning. I have no doubt you have seen a lot of 40 kabooms. I would like to know the precise details.
Hodgdon data for one of many bullet wts with longshot in the 40 cal. I suggest you get another manual.

Hodgdon Longshot for two 180 bullets

1.125" 6.3 1,013 26,200 PSI 7.5 1,150 33,400 PSI

Hodgdon Longshot

1.125" 6.5 1,009 25,000 PSI 8.0 1,159 32,300 PSI
https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/?t=2

If I work up and stay under max load, does that sound like hot rodding.
Edit data is for a 4 inch barrel, I am using one that is Length 5.85 inch extra strength recoil springs.
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-u6rb2tt5h8/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/5267/9396/9396__23953.1667847505.jpg?c=1
For black bears if I have problem it will be one that had trespassed going after my fruit trees and my dogs are going after it and if I can not reach a shotgun instantly, to save the dogs I will do what I have to. a 40 is better than a 9 and I do not feel the need to go out and buy a 10mm.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Barnetmill: It is good to know that you are aware that "Proper Handgun Calibers" all start with a .4 !!!

In every case that I have seen personally (6-7) the Shooter/Reloader was trying to pump his gun up by starting at Max Loads and usually had the bullets seated too Deep or weren't crimped properly resulting in Bullet Set Back during recoil. This resulted in the magazine being blown out the bottom and various injuries to the gun itself from still usable to junk.

Others were attributed to early Federal Cases (Marked FC, FC10) which blew out over the unsupported area of the case. The Case Heads were extended farther up the side of the case as a fix and this has not been a problem since.

What I do for my starting loads with any cartridge is go half way between Starting and Max and that usually will result in a load that does what I want and generally the accuracy is there as well. By doing that it looks like you'd be around 1075-1100 fps with pressures in the 28,000 psi range. Factory loads run around 35,000 psi for the Critical Defense stuff. and that is at the top end of what Glocks can take.

Anyway good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Randy

[barnetmill]

Barnetmill: It is good to know that you are aware that "Proper Handgun Calibers" all start with a .4 !!!

In every case that I have seen personally (6-7) the Shooter/Reloader was trying to pump his gun up by starting at Max Loads and usually had the bullets seated too Deep or weren't crimped properly resulting in Bullet Set Back during recoil. This resulted in the magazine being blown out the bottom and various injuries to the gun itself from still usable to junk.

Others were attributed to early Federal Cases (Marked FC, FC10) which blew out over the unsupported area of the case. The Case Heads were extended farther up the side of the case as a fix and this has not been a problem since.

What I do for my starting loads with any cartridge is go half way between Starting and Max and that usually will result in a load that does what I want and generally the accuracy is there as well. By doing that it looks like you'd be around 1075-1100 fps with pressures in the 28,000 psi range. Factory loads run around 35,000 psi for the Critical Defense stuff. and that is at the top end of what Glocks can take.

Anyway good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Randy

The blown out case seems to be a failure of the case and not the gun. These failures are well known in the glock. Especially in the earlier glocks.
A tightly held in the case bullet must be used when reloading any cartridge for an autoloading pistol to prevent bullet set back in the case.

Here are loads with longshot for the 10 mm pistol on a 1911 frame. 9 gr powder charge and 187 gr bullet
Source Feb 2024 issue of American Rifleman
322273

[Walter Laich]

He was talking about a "Granite Surface Plate."

just amazoned them as it's cold in Houston right now--boy are they proud of them

[Winger Ed.]

At the moment I am only interested in getting close to max loads in some applications.


I do what was recommended and buy a box of the factory hot rod self defense ammo
rather than trying to 're-invent the wheel' myself.
The ammo makers have a few million more dollars worth of equipment for load development than I do
and have pretty well figured this stuff out.

[barnetmill]

I do what was recommended and buy a box of the factory hot rod self defense ammo
rather than trying to 're-invent the wheel' myself.
The ammo makers have a few million more dollars worth of equipment for load development than I do
and have pretty well figured this stuff out.

Thanks for the concern.
I can not afford hundreds of rounds of such purchased loadings. If I am going use something for SD, I want to be very familiar with it. That gun will used to shoot anything that needs shooting on my place. Water moccasin, possums, feral hog, or a meth head. I am using a load developed by someone else with pressure reading equipment, that being Hodgdon. I will also be staying under the max.
I am someone that has never had a speeding ticket and only one other ticket and the cop was wrong. I have been driving since 1960. I am not a risk taker. 1960 was when I started reloading.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The blown out case seems to be a failure of the case and not the gun. These failures are well known in the glock. Especially in the earlier glocks.
A tightly held in the case bullet must be used when reloading any cartridge for an autoloading pistol to prevent bullet set back in the case.

Here are loads with longshot for the 10 mm pistol on a 1911 frame. 9 gr powder charge and 187 gr bullet
Source Feb 2024 issue of American Rifleman
322273

You aren't planning on using that load in your Glock 22, are you?

Randy

[barnetmill]

You aren't planning on using that load in your Glock 22, are you?

Randy

OF COURSE NOT.
Just showing the progression of how longshot powder works in a similar case that differs in having more case volume with everything thing else being equal.
I am not even sure if such could be compressed-loaded into a 40 case. Things might get exciting if someone did it.

[Tatume]

At the moment I am only interested in getting close to max loads in some applications.

A scale that is not level will read light, and the farther from level the lighter it will indicate. That said, given the fact that the precision of reloading scales is only one tenth of a grain, the scale would have to be visibly un-level for the indication to change. For example, consider Hodgdon's 40 S&W 10.0 gr max charge of CFE with the 165 gr Sierra bullet and IMR Blue powder. An electronic scale would have to be off level by six degrees to cause the scale to indicate 9.9 gr with 10.0 gr in the scale pan.

[barnetmill]

A scale that is not level will read light, and the farther from level the lighter it will indicate. That said, given the fact that the precision of reloading scales is only one tenth of a grain, the scale would have to be visibly un-level for the indication to change. For example, consider Hodgdon's 40 S&W 10.0 gr max charge of CFE with the 165 gr Sierra bullet and IMR Blue powder. An electronic scale would have to be off level by six degrees to cause the scale to indicate 9.9 gr with 10.0 gr in the scale pan.

That is good information. Do you recall where you read it. But for now I will assume that if the scale is not level, the charge is heavier than indicated by the scale. I assume that is so even if the balance is calibrated with a wt.

[Tatume]

I did not read it, I did the calculation myself. It a simple vector decomposition.

[barnetmill]

I did not read it, I did the calculation myself. It a simple vector decomposition.

My physics 101 was a very long time ago and I understand where you got it from. I assume one can try to determine it experimentally with a beam balance, but I am not set up to do that. But the point is that the accuracy error small.

[Tatume]

The point is that the error in accuracy is small as long as the error in level is small.

[DougGuy]

TBH, after reading your intended purposes for the 40, right there is your first mistake, choosing the 40S&W and going after bear? You have got to be kidding me. You said safely? LOL. Just get a 10mm if you have to use a 40 caliber.

[barnetmill]

TBH, after reading your intended purposes for the 40, right there is your first mistake, choosing the 40S&W and going after bear? You have got to be kidding me. You said safely? LOL. Just get a 10mm if you have to use a 40 caliber.

lol, going after bear.
Ok for shooting a 250-300 lb back bear, what will the 10 mm with hard cast bullets do that the 40 will not do? What I can see is more penetration and might be better at breaking a bone in a small bear. I doubt that I need more penetration. Can you offer some other positive outcomes for using a 10mm. Also if the i decide that the 40 will not work I will go and get a 10.
The thing is to carry always. As I type this I have the 9mm that I have carried when home for the last 20 years that is getting replaced. And there is another one loaded but chamber empty in front of me. 12 ga at the back door with a 6.5 g. Upstairs is a PTR-91 and another 9mm pistol.

Now can you imagine any downside to using the 10mm. By way I do have .44 mag mountain gun and for a lot of reasons it will not be used. 6 vs 15 ring a bell. reliability and abuse, does not have a flat profile, also recoil and the glock wins.

[W.R.Buchanan]

That 12 ga. by the door might be the best choice.? go here to get the full story. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?440578-What-I-did-to-my-Shotguns.

Always remember to be successful you must first hit the target. Much easier with a shotgun than a pistol. This goes for 2 legged s well as 4 legged Critters !!!.

Randy