38 Special: The Wet Fart Chronicles

[Recycled bullet]

I really like my Frankfurt Arsenal Wet Tumbler. This was the brass that I recently deprimed and resized with the hand press earlier this week, well I finally dumped them in the bucket and added hot sink water and a bunch of stainless steel pins, then poured in a guesstimated capful quantity of citric acid powder, a squirt of dawn dish soap then sealed the lid and let it rip.

And the meanwhile I went and I took turns shooting my Ruger Wrangler, a Ruger Blackhawk and a Smith & Wesson 686. I finally used up the last of the federal auto match I'm so glad to throw that box away. I shot 250 357 magnums. Both revolvers shoot it well but I'll give the Blackhawk the nod at 50 yards it groups a little better about a fist size group. I really like how fast I can reload the 686 compared to the Blackhawk. Although obviously I'm just making work for myself at this point:-)

Got done with that then got back and poured out all the trash water from the tumbler. I am left with beautiful glistening shiny brass. This brass is so shiny that it gives house cats temper tantrums. If I didn't have a whole bunch of bullets to load into these casings I might be tempted to thread them on some fishing line and make me a new necklace or bracelet:-)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240113/c02018bc1b4182ce2182fd2b9bf73f9d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240113/071c33b98a1d6ae250d97269957775b6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240113/c605774bc5f1254ec8200ec456209b12.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240113/77a1ab314655c1494575e256e9f2c009.jpg

[cwtebay]

Them's some shiny brass!!
Can't say I have ever fired 250 rounds of 357 in a setting!!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[ascast]

very pretty !

[1I-Jack]

You've got SS pins still in some of those.

[lar45]

Much nicer than my walnut media

[Recycled bullet]

The brass is in the toaster oven I repeat the brass is in the toaster oven. I'm going to have some shiny dry remington 38 spl brass tomorrow :-)

[hawkeye1]

Wow! I’m impressed. I didn’t know wet tumbling worked so much better than my walnut and corncob media in vibrating tumbler. Of course mine would prolly work better if I replaced the media more often. So, after you tumble the brass, do you have to put it all in the oven to dry? Is that unhandy or not a big deal?

[Recycled bullet]

No big deal at all. I use the same hardware cloth basket in the same oven for powder coating bullets. I set it at 200°F last night, time to check and see if they are fully dry. The drying works faster and better with primers out.

[Bigslug]

Here's a question for you: Will those stainless steel pins stick to a magnet? If so, I'm thinking that could possibly be exploited for separation.

A possible word of caution (or paranoia): I tumble pre-sizing with the primers still in to keep the flash hole unplugged with walnut shell, but I'm also a little concerned with eroding the primer pockets with those pins. It'd be worth monitoring how much effort it takes to seat your primers going forward.

[MUSTANG]

What do you do to keep the Brass from Tarnishing after wet tumbling and drying? If I do not put in a vibratory tumbler for 1/2 hour after Pin Cleaning and Drying; I get dull tarnished brass in 3 to 5 days.

[AnthonyB]

Mustang;
I never have that problem but have found that too much Lemi-Shine is counterproductive and that the pins themselves need to be cleaned every so often, especially after cleaning brass lubed with lanolin and Iso-Heet. Just running the pins with the standard cleaning solution or some Castrol Super Clean has me back to shiny brass in no time.
Tony

[Budzilla 19]

Mustang, to answer your question about tarnished brass, if you would replace the Dawn dishwashing liquid with Turtle Wax Zip Wax, it’s a car wash and wax together, no more tarnished brass and no tumbling in walnut media required. Water beads off. Just a suggestion.

[beemer]

I have the Harbor freight rock tumbler with the two small drums so I only do small batches, covers what I need. The results are much the same. I don't tumble everything or every time I fire them, only really nasty stuff or pickups. I still use a vibratory and corn cob media most of the time.

When I tumble I put in a little dish soap and a pinch of Lemi-Shine that seems to help with the tarnish. Pins do stick to a magnet. I use one of the magnets with the release handle to work with pins.

[Recycled bullet]

My stainless steel pins are magnetic.

I manually shake the pins out. I dump the contents of the wet tumbler into a large or medium bucket then I rinse it out in the sink over and over until I get most of the soap out and all of the dirt out.

Then I bring my second clean bucket and I sit on the couch and watch a DVD in this case I watched about 20 minutes of a John Wick movie while I shook the pins out, and then I dump the bucket of separated wet brass into the hardware cloth tray.

And now my second batch of brass is drying, in this case all of the 357s and 38s that I shot last night. Primer seating force is increased, it feels like the primer pockets are tighter after I wet tumble them with pins. This is the same with little revolver cartridges like 38 Special and also with bottleneck Centerfire rifle like 308 Winchester. I feel that my primer seating force and seating depth more consistent with the wet pin tumbled brass.

In summary it is a net Improvement for me and has led to higher quality ammunition and also has significantly improved the inspection process because the smallest defect is glaringly obvious.

[JimB..]

I use a universal depriming die, don’t like the idea of running dirty brass through the sizing die. Of course if it’s just revolver brass that never hit the ground it’s probably fine.

For drying I spread them on old towels in the garage, often with a box fan pointed in their general direction.

+1 for wash n wax

For especially dirty brass I’ll sometimes use dawn instead of wash n wax and change the water in the drum after 30 min, then add wash n wax.

If brass comes out kinda greasy, quick rinse and run again with dawn, repeat as needed. Usually it’s lube not broken down by the gentler soap in wash n wax.

Only downside to wet tumbling is time and the increased tendency for the expander to stick. Stainless pins don’t deform, erode, or work harden primer pockets or case mouths, that’s all just internet noise. When you rinse you will find brass flakes in the bottom of the bucket, I’m pretty sure that’s the sharp edges created by the extractor on the case head being knocked off.

[PJEagle]

Frankford Arsenal makes a wet media separator that removes the pins from the brass in about a minute.

[sundog]

I like Meguiar's wash & wax and lemishine and a [quick] cold water rinse. Usually after a universal decap so I can run clean brass through the sizer die. I air dry on a fluffy towel.

[Recycled bullet]

Mustang, to answer your question about tarnished brass, if you would replace the Dawn dishwashing liquid with Turtle Wax Zip Wax, it’s a car wash and wax together, no more tarnished brass and no tumbling in walnut media required. Water beads off. Just a suggestion.Hey Budzilla 19 can you please tell more about the wash and wax? That sounds like a pretty good Improvement that I might pick up a bottle at the parts store try it on my next batch.

[dondiego]

I let my brass air dry out on the porch after tumbling in the FART. My pins are magnetic and are separated from the brass with a Dillon tumbling basket and a Harbor Freight magnet with handle release to move the pins and pick up strays.

[Gtrubicon]

I also use wash and wax instead of dawn, the have the simple green version now and it work’s excellent. The brass stays shiny. I still add a very small amount of lemishine.

[lightman]

What do you do to keep the Brass from Tarnishing after wet tumbling and drying? If I do not put in a vibratory tumbler for 1/2 hour after Pin Cleaning and Drying; I get dull tarnished brass in 3 to 5 days.

Like the others have said, substitute Wash and Wax for the Dawn. Everybody has a favorite but I've not noticed a difference between brands. The Walmart store brand seems to work as well as any!

[AnthonyB]

I'm a belt and suspenders guy and use Dawn with the wash & wax....
Tony

[brassrat]

Maybe try some tips here, someday. Every wet tumble attempt has left me with extremely tarnished brass in multiple colors. I like my Lyman tumbler with good media.

[SquibCity]

i recently got the big fart machine. Ive Had Great Luck with only citric acid and a little dawn. havent used pins yet, not too worried about primer pockets being all the way clean for handgun loads. Overall way better than vibratory cleaners.

[jdgabbard]

The results look nice. I'm always surprised at how well the stainless pins polish up brass. I probably should invest in a wet tumbler, but I'm still using my vibratory with walnut media.

That said, I'm jaded where it concerns Frankford Arsenal. I bought one of their Primer Pocket Swagers (https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/case-preparation/priming-and-depriming-tools/platinum-series-primer-pocket-swager/110007.html) last year. I used it three times before the darn thing broke the spring at the back. I promptly contacted Frankford Arsenal on their website, they still have not responded. I tried contacting them again, still nothing. Their Custom Service sucks...

That said, lots of other options out there. I'll be replacing the Frankford Arsenal Swage with the RCBS Bench Swager. When I do decide to get a wet tumbler I'll find a different brand to go with. I've given Frankford Arsenal the last dime I'll ever give them.

Just my .02

[Recycled bullet]

I wonder if their quality control has been slipping? I had a Frankfurt Arsenal hand priming tool. It was great. I could really do a lot of case priming really fast . I primed at least 20,000 9 mm and 38 specials, then it broke and I called and I emailed nobody there really cared. The handle frame literally cracked the metal broke I couldn't even silver solder it back together because it was made of zamak castings. It was like trying to Silver solder crayons. That dog don't hunt. Fast forward several years.. Finally getting tired of ram priming in a Lee hand press -I need a faster solution!

I am hesitant to purchase another product only to purchase the same pattern failure. Do you guys have any suggestions of a tool I can buy to rapidly prime lots of 38 Special brass?

I'm going to bell the case mouths m-style using the Lee hand press and noe adapters or with the rcbs stepped expander, that seems fast enough to do with two buckets while watching a movie.

Priming 38 Special brass is getting real tedious after about 300 cases with the Lee hand press.

Good news is that I have learned not to Prime my thumb:-)

[Budzilla 19]

Recycled bullet, this is just Turtle Wax Wash and wax stuff. White bottle, green label. Just my findings, but if you add Dawn dish soap, plus the wash and wax, the Dawn negates the effect of the wax in the solution. I guess it has a surfactant in it? I don’t know. But I know it works a heck of a lot better without the dawn, just the wash and wax stuff! I do add some Lemishine also.
Priming tools? RCBS hand primer is easy to use, also CH ram prime that goes in your press. I use my Dillon SDB to load all pistol rounds, so I don’t really hand prime very much pistol unless just a few for testing loads. I use the Dillon case separator but fill the tub with water! It gets those pins out right now! Also, I add some wash and wax to the rinse water. They dry with no water marks and stay shiny much longer.

[alfadan]

I've been tumbling with dish soap and citric acid without pins and the results have been quite satisfactory.

[jdgabbard]

I wonder if their quality control has been slipping? I had a Frankfurt Arsenal hand priming tool. It was great. I could really do a lot of case priming really fast . I primed at least 20,000 9 mm and 38 specials, then it broke and I called and I emailed nobody there really cared. The handle frame literally cracked the metal broke I couldn't even silver solder it back together because it was made of zamak castings. It was like trying to Silver solder crayons. That dog don't hunt. Fast forward several years.. Finally getting tired of ram priming in a Lee hand press -I need a faster solution!

I am hesitant to purchase another product only to purchase the same pattern failure. Do you guys have any suggestions of a tool I can buy to rapidly prime lots of 38 Special brass?

I'm going to bell the case mouths m-style using the Lee hand press and noe adapters or with the rcbs stepped expander, that seems fast enough to do with two buckets while watching a movie.

Priming 38 Special brass is getting real tedious after about 300 cases with the Lee hand press.

Good news is that I have learned not to Prime my thumb:-)

I don't think it's their QC really... From what I have read, this is a piece that is common to failure: a little spring at the back that has 90 bends where it connects. Apparently it breaks at the bend. The problem I have with them is there is reportedly a lifetime guarantee. But you can't get a response from anyone at the company to sort out the issue. So I've got a basically useless primer pocket swager...

[Apple Man]

No big deal at all. I use the same hardware cloth basket in the same oven for powder coating bullets. I set it at 200°F last night, time to check and see if they are fully dry. The drying works faster and better with primers out.

I believe my wife would have a different take on using her oven to dry brass.:kidding:

[rintinglen]

I believe my wife would have a different take on using her oven to dry brass.:kidding:

Mine too. She said I had better plan on eating anything I put in her oven.

[jdgabbard]

^^^ And these two comments are just another reason I'm single. :bigsmyl2:

[Patrick L]

I second that is quite shiny! I may look into this in the future. I recently switched to an ultrasonic cleaner, but this looks good too.

My main reason for switching to a "wet" system is elimination of tumbling dust. I recently saw a jump in my blood lead levels (after 40 years of normal levels) so I am re evaluating everything to try to minimize my exposure. I never realized how much dry tumbling can expose you to lead dust.

I'm also impressed by anyone firing 250 rounds of .357 in one session. I generally fire MAYBE 10 Magnums after a session of .38 wadcutters. Mas Macho!!

[Four-Sixty]

I find a "salad spinner" handy for separating pins from wet brass. I've been using one from IKEA for years now.

I then tumble the brass in an old t shirt. I hold the shirt at four corner like it's a hammock and roll the brass back and forth. I get the outsides of the cases dry, and no spots.

[Big Boomer]

Much of the problem with having grungy looking/discolored brass after wet-pin cleaning has to do with the ph level in the rinse water. I now check the ph level of the water (5-6) after I put the brass & pins in the home made unit I use & then check the ph level of the rinse water. Adding a bit of citric acid to bring the ph level to the right point eliminates those undesirable colors. Before my son taught me about the proper ph level I had some of the oddest looking purple .30-06 brass I ever saw.
Big Boomer

[Boogan1]

Another advantage of using the wash and wax is the very thin film of wax that is left on the cases makes them run very smoothly through the press. I can tell the difference on the press handle between cases washed with dawn and wash and wax.

[JimB..]

I wonder if their quality control has been slipping? I had a Frankfurt Arsenal hand priming tool. It was great. I could really do a lot of case priming really fast . I primed at least 20,000 9 mm and 38 specials, then it broke and I called and I emailed nobody there really cared. The handle frame literally cracked the metal broke I couldn't even silver solder it back together because it was made of zamak castings. It was like trying to Silver solder crayons. That dog don't hunt. Fast forward several years.. Finally getting tired of ram priming in a Lee hand press -I need a faster solution!

I am hesitant to purchase another product only to purchase the same pattern failure. Do you guys have any suggestions of a tool I can buy to rapidly prime lots of 38 Special brass?

I'm going to bell the case mouths m-style using the Lee hand press and noe adapters or with the rcbs stepped expander, that seems fast enough to do with two buckets while watching a movie.

Priming 38 Special brass is getting real tedious after about 300 cases with the Lee hand press.

Good news is that I have learned not to Prime my thumb:-)

You want an RCBS universal bench primer. Yeah people complain about the primer tube flopping about, but that’s how it’s designed and it works really well.

[Recycled bullet]

You want an RCBS universal bench primer. Yeah people complain about the primer tube flopping about, but that’s how it’s designed and it works really well.I will read about that one. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Recycled bullet]

Thanks all for suggesting the wash and wax. Thanks Budzilla 19 for suggesting the specific turtle wax. Now they shine!!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240118/363764c8c26c0d4e47b6a3c168aaf341.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240118/fc4a8432f64170249cb1f677a58683e3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240118/a8f3e5076e69d25017954ac5667cfc98.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240118/fc9ea5c26716b52f45715ad1b90fab60.jpg

[Chill Wills]

Cartridge porn.

[trapper9260]

I run my brass in grounded walnut at first then I size and deprime them with Unique case lube and then when done I use ground up corn cobs to tumble them to get the lube off and it shine the brass enough for me. I do not like to run dirty brass also in my dies. As for dust from the medium I use dryer sheet cut in strips that I add when I tumble them . It takes care of the dust.

[georgerkahn]

Hey Budzilla 19 can you please tell more about the wash and wax? That sounds like a pretty good Improvement that I might pick up a bottle at the parts store try it on my next batch.

Chiming in here :) that I have had great success using ArmorAll's Wash n Wax. I, too, was troubled by dullness after a few days without this addition to the wet tumble mix.322316

[Budzilla 19]

Dang, Recycled, that’s awesome! Down here we had an old Cajun who did a cooking show. One of his favorite sayings, among others, was “ don’t that purty????” Well, that’s pretty beautiful brass right there!

By the way, that old Cajun was none other than Justin Wilson.
Be safe, guys.

[charlie b]

I am glad I read this thread.

I use the FA tumbler and SS pins. Dawn and water.

Dry in a small convection oven. Hint. If you set it for 230 deg, that is above boiling point of water. Only takes a few minutes once it reaches temp to get all the water out.

Never cared much if the brass was shiny or not. BUT...the idea of using a wax finish and the ease of sizing has me getting some of this stuff for a rinse cycle.

I also use distilled water for final rinse. We have hard water and a softener. Plenty of salt in that tap water.

PS I'll second the SS pins. Yes, you have to check cases for a pin in the flash hole. I do that as I load them in the press. One reason I tumble them is to clean out the primer pockets.

[elmacgyver0]

Being a cheap skate, I made my own pin separator out of a couple kitty litter buckets and some hardware cloth.

[Kenstone]

Another advantage of using the wash and wax is the very thin film of wax that is left on the cases makes them run very smoothly through the press. I can tell the difference on the press handle between cases washed with dawn and wash and wax.

Yes, wash and wax is a great case lube.

The best of both worlds' method:
I tumble with the traditional Dawn/Lemishine additive and only use the wash and wax in the final rinse. :idea:
I keep a gallon jug of rinse water heavily laced with Wash and Wax and use it over and over for the FINAL RINSE.
Once dried these cases are PRE-LUBED for SIZING!! :Bright idea: :bigsmyl2:
jmo,
.

[fredj338]

My biggest issue with wet cleaning, decides the drying time, is the bras is actually too clean. I now have to at least spray lube to make reloading less work. While I like clean brass, super shiny, not a big deal if it cost me more time & effort.

[gwpercle]

Dang, Recycled, that’s awesome! Down here we had an old Cajun who did a cooking show. One of his favorite sayings, among others, was “ don’t that purty????” Well, that’s pretty beautiful brass right there!

By the way, that old Cajun was none other than Justin Wilson.
Be safe, guys.

... I Gar-On-Tee ...

Gary

[bosterr]

I just received my FART the other day and I've decided to go the wash and wax-lemishine route. About how much of each cleaner are you using for a full tumbler load of brass?

[Recycled bullet]

I just received my FART the other day and I've decided to go the wash and wax-lemishine route. About how much of each cleaner are you using for a full tumbler load of brass?For really dirty brass I use 1/4-1/2 cup of wash and wax. The citric acid I am dispensing using the cap as a spoon, I estimate maybe heaping tablespoon. I have the big FART MACHINE.

[bosterr]

Thanks RB! I have the big FART too. I didn't buy any Lemishine yet but I do have some citric acid powder, I'll try that first.

[bosterr]

I have about 1500 Nickle plated ,357s I wonder what will the pins do to them. I load those on my Dillon 650 progressive machine and the primer pockets never get cleaned.

[JimB..]

For really dirty brass I use 1/4-1/2 cup of wash and wax. The citric acid I am dispensing using the cap as a spoon, I estimate maybe heaping tablespoon. I have the big FART MACHINE.

I’d try cutting the lemishine/citric down to half or a quarter that and see what happens. It’s possible to make the water too acidic, butnit all depends on how hard your water is.

[The Dar]

... I Gar-On-Tee ...

Gary

I'm glad for you to see me.....Loved Justin Wilson.

[Recycled bullet]

300 blackout brass came out beautiful!!!

[Recycled bullet]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240125/6f8b8a93db94ced3a88a24d9a4a8ef83.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240125/3a726ea340a5c28eacce41871468ec4f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240125/f21c161df1eaf7db9e45feee791f10fd.jpg

[Recycled bullet]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240125/d54938ebb0e4360c55b71f4585e9bc75.jpg

[Recycled bullet]

I have about 1500 Nickle plated ,357s I wonder what will the pins do to them. I load those on my Dillon 650 progressive machine and the primer pockets never get cleaned.It's not mandatory to use the pins if you don't want to. I never had any issue with nickel brass becoming damaged due to interference or abrasion from the stainless steel pins, but I also don't have a batch of 1500 to draw from :-). I bet it makes your ammunition look really sharp. What kind of bullets are you hand loading into 357 mag?

There is still plenty benefit of improved cleaning action and faster drying time if you wet tumble them deprimed in the large tumbler with hot tap water with 1/4-1/2 cup wash and wax added, even without pins.

Personally I like shiny brass :-)

I loaded these hollow pointed 358429 bullets into wet pin tumbled nickeled 38 special r-p brass back in early 2020. I don't think there was any negative effect because of it, I think they remain cleaner because of it.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240125/0e8746eb2b90b6e2143d1504ccca5d5d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240125/604fb1f000ca29eeaaf9ff3d87139ec2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240125/b1dce97f079200b8395b08e522e6e0dd.jpg

[Recycled bullet]

I’d try cutting the lemishine/citric down to half or a quarter that and see what happens. It’s possible to make the water too acidic, butnit all depends on how hard your water is.Hey I followed your advice and it worked! The brass came out looking even better! That's what I did with this most recent batch of 300 Blackout brass. There was only hot water, Turtle Wax wash and wax 1/2 cup, several pounds stainless steel pins and 3 hours of tumbling.

[gwpercle]

I'm glad for you to see me.....Loved Justin Wilson.

Me Too ... I Loved his cooking show ... and I got every one of his Cook Books !
Gary

[JimB..]

Hey I followed your advice and it worked! The brass came out looking even better! That's what I did with this most recent batch of 300 Blackout brass. There was only hot water, Turtle Wax wash and wax 1/2 cup, several pounds stainless steel pins and 3 hours of tumbling.

Great! Some loads need more soap, some less, you’ll get a feel for it over time. If I want guaranteed great results I replace the wash water with new water and soap after 30 min. I think when I’ve got brass with a lot of lube on it the soap gets depleted and then no amount of tumbling will get the brass clean.

[Recycled bullet]

This is approximately 1,000 38 special cartridge casings tumbled in the large wet fart machine. I used one cup of the wash and wax mixture and several pounds of stainless steel pins and then topped it off with the hottest tap water. I ran it for 3 hours then I dumped them into this plastic bucket, and move the casings around to separate the soap out in the sink. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240126/2bfd8c136b8bdbd6932a7b75af1cd08a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240126/c5776feedb8ba691b43315e1f29e0d5b.jpg

[dondiego]

This is approximately 1,000 38 special cartridge casings tumbled in the large wet fart machine. I used one cup of the wash and wax mixture and several pounds of stainless steel pins and then topped it off with the hottest tap water. I ran it for 3 hours then I dumped them into this plastic bucket, and move the casings around to separate the soap out in the sink. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240126/2bfd8c136b8bdbd6932a7b75af1cd08a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240126/c5776feedb8ba691b43315e1f29e0d5b.jpg

There seems to be a partial primer cup in one of the cases in the middle of the pic.

[JimB..]

They look great.
You can probably cut the soap down by 50% or even 75%.