454-275 molds in [Archive]

Willbird

01-24-2006, 08:16 PM

The molds are here, test casts done, the finish inside the cavities is rough in the nose area, dia is spot on, weight is also. The bullets did drop from the cavities nicely.

I'm really sick of Lee quality, or the lack therof.

Opinions folks ??

Bill

j4570

01-24-2006, 09:16 PM

All the molds I've used (been 10 years plus) including LEE, didn't have that roughness to them.

Not sure I how like it. they weren't like that the 1st go round were they, but they undersize?

Now they are the right size, but LEE did a hack fix?

I'll go with what other people want to do.

But in my past experience, LEE lets you down more often than Lyman, Hornady, or RCBS.

Willbird

01-24-2006, 09:29 PM

I simply cannot express my chagrin...........Really this just dovetails with my past opinion of them.

I think they possibly cut new molds, but used the old tool, or their coolant was on the weak side (I'm a machinest by trade)

Bill

45 2.1

01-24-2006, 10:17 PM

Bill-

Send mine. I always said that the second go around is always poorer than the first. I think LEE does this on purpose. The only solution is for one of use to set up and produce molds. A well cut cherry to our specs would cut all the molds and be the same. Aluminum 3 or 4 cavity would be nice. Now all you machinist, how applicable is this option?

Willbird

01-25-2006, 07:35 AM

bdoyle

01-25-2006, 11:47 AM

"and a price for bare blocks will tell us "

I'm sure we all have some Lee blocks that could use recutting... Otherwise $34.95 for a 6 cav @ Midsouth.

Brian

lar45

01-25-2006, 12:05 PM

I'll take mine as is and lap it out.
What do they weigh in at? and at what OD?
Thanks
Glenn.

45 2.1

01-25-2006, 12:21 PM

Well it may be 452.1 that we can pool resources, the cherrying portion can be done on manual machinery. The mold block mfg. and all the other parts are more suited to CNC mfg.

I think we could make the molds we have asked lee to make, a 3-4 cavity that has some of the good qualities of their 6 cavity design, make sure we arent infringing on patents.

To get a real good snapshot of the actual cost we would have to check with cutting tool mfg. on the price to have a cherry made, that and a price for bare blocks will tell us what the guy doing the cherrying can pay himself.

Bill

Don't worry about patents, just get cheapest dealer cost on bare blocks or a small bullet six cavity LEE and recut. Someone on this forum is making blocks, can't remember whom. Cherries are easier to make, but hardening usually messes most up. LEE dealer should be well under $30 since Midsouth and others sell in the $36 range.

Bodydoc447

01-25-2006, 01:21 PM

Despite the roughness of the cavities, the design of the boolit is a good one. I think asthetics aside it will still shoot as good as my eyes will allow. I very much appreciate all the effort that has gone into this group buy design and would like the thank everyone for their efforts, especially, Mr. & Mrs. Willbird who fronted it all. Mine may be sent as is with my thanks.

BTW, I am not letting Lee "off the hook" for poor workmanship but I recognize where the blame lies and it is with no one but the "craftsman" who let pretty rough work leave his shop.

Doc

Willbird

01-25-2006, 01:30 PM

45 2.1

01-25-2006, 02:05 PM

Well Bob, as we have seen the Lee blocks arent really good raw material....alignment pins falling out for one thing, and if their work and quality ethic is the same thru the whole process.........see what I mean ??

Bill

Yes but that doesn't mean too much. I thought about putting a set screw on the sprue plate bolt and pinning the alignment pins. Where are you going to get raw material at a comparable price?

GLL

01-25-2006, 02:51 PM

Bill:

Please send mine as well. I will treat it as a lapping experiment and see what happens.

Thanks for all of your efforts.

Jerry

Dutch4122

01-25-2006, 08:53 PM

Bill-

I'll take the 2 moulds I ordered. I appreciate all the extra effort you have put into this group buy and I'm sure that they will shoot fine regardless of cosmetics.

As for the idea of recutting existing Lee 6 cavity molds with a different design of our own; at 1st glance I think the idea deserves further discussion. Using an existing mould would cut down on the workload for the individual who was actually performing the re-cut. Would be kinda funny when Lee suddenly has a run on the 311-93-1R 6 bangers!

Willbird

01-25-2006, 09:39 PM

Oh I agree on the price Bob, when you break down the number of parts involved it might be worth paying 30 for just the sprueplate and cutter cam and handle.

Bill

Beau Cassidy

01-26-2006, 08:35 AM

Seeing that makes me glad I fiddle farted around and never sent my money in.

Pepe Ray

01-26-2006, 06:50 PM

FWIW, I don't mind messin' w/a second rate mold. If there are extras or some unhappy buyer wants to cut his losses , I'll take one of these off someones hands. Talk to me.
Pepe Ray

old goat

01-26-2006, 10:12 PM

...Pepe Ray, I don't want mine. If you will pay me the $56.00 I have invested, you can have mine. Willbird was supposed to tell someone a mold was available, but he must have forgotten. Just in case he did and forgot to mention it, I'll need to check with him first.
...This will need to be subject to who is first , if anyone, just to be fair.

...old goat

old goat

01-26-2006, 10:34 PM

Pepe Ray, you have a PM.

...old goat

Buckshot

01-27-2006, 05:59 AM

"The molds are here, test casts done, the finish inside the cavities is rough in the nose area, dia is spot on, weight is also. The bullets did drop from the cavities nicely."

...........First off, it's bad they (or some) had to go back. Secondly they came back with an 'appearance' problem. Other then that diameter is spot on, so is the weight, and:

"The bullets did drop from the cavities nicely."

Seems as if the deal turned out fine after all. I seriously doubt those surface blemishes are going to make a discernable difference on the target. They're not internal voids or big external craters. It appears a few are seeing it that way. I have seen a couple iron blocks that looked like they'd been store on the bottom of a swimming pool get cleaned up to produce good useable slugs.

I'm not an apologist for Lee, I'm just thinking that there isn't any real world problem from what I can see. I've shot some rather skunky looking slugs from a Lyman 311291 due to having sprayed Midway mould dropout in the cavities (finally got it all out and only ruined two 30 cal brushes) and they shot just as well as the final batch with the scrubbed cavities.

I think NEI has the information posted as to what they charge to cut a cherry and then for cutting moulds with it, or for them to cut a cherry. It's an idea of expenses.

................Buckshot

Intuldt

01-27-2006, 01:24 PM

I too expected a better result from Lee than we apparently received. I appreciate the work that Willbird has done in putting this order together and then trying to get the spec's corrected on the second run. I think I will just mark this up to experiece and take the mold as is. Thanks.

INTULDT

Willbird

01-27-2006, 01:30 PM

OK My Wife and I will get them out to the PO tomorrow, I have I belive one more extra one left......

Bill

old goat

01-27-2006, 04:21 PM

...If anyone wants one of these, I will sell mine for $56.00, shipped-CONUS.

...old goat

...Mold sold..Pending funds. Thanks

PatMarlin

01-27-2006, 11:45 PM

THose are some UGLY boolits, but I bet those suckers shoot GOOOOOOOD!!

Please send mine and thanks so much for your help Bill.

C1PNR

01-28-2006, 02:01 AM

Willbird,

I really appreciate your extra effort to get us moulds that are of a size that we can at least use. I certainly would prefer a nice smooth surface to the nose, but heck, I may be able to try some smoothing process on a couple of holes.

Anyway, again many thanks for your diligence and I'll just be watching the mail.

Willbird

01-28-2006, 07:29 AM

My gut feeling from inspecting them all last night, and getting them ready to ship is that Lee re-cut the cavities rather than make new ones, and they did it dry so as to not have to clean them again. I have been cutting metal for 35 of my 40 years so my judgement has some experience behind it. I would not be surprised if the roughness isnt actually small alum. shavings re-welded to the surface, and it might come off quite easily.

In my day job I handle a lot of tooling and componants made to strict tolerances, if I had a vender that was sending me poop like Lee does I would start shopping for their replacement. They do slipshod work period. There is no excuse for it.

Karen is taking them to the PO today.

Bill

old goat

01-28-2006, 02:17 PM

...johnch......You have PM.

...old goat

Nrut

01-28-2006, 06:44 PM

Willbird...please ship mine also....thanks again for Honcho-ing this deal...mic

Willbird

01-28-2006, 08:33 PM

They are all in the mail as of today

Bill

alamogunr

01-30-2006, 08:56 PM

Got mine today. That was fast. I can see the roughness in the cavities but since I'm a relative beginner, I'm of the opinion that the bullets from this will probably shoot better than I can. After I've put a few thousand (hopefully) thru my 45's , maybe I'll need a better mold. Retirement is coming up the end of April so maybe then I will have more time. Meanwhile, I appreciate the time and effort expended by Willbird on this buy.
John

Bodydoc447

01-30-2006, 09:40 PM

Rec'd mine today as well. Despite roughness in cavities it ought to shoot well. I'll be interested to learn of everyone's experiences with this one.

Thanks, Willbird!

Doc

hpdrifter

01-30-2006, 10:10 PM

Anyone else that doesn't want theirs, I'd be interested.

hpdrifter

01-31-2006, 08:42 PM

Willbird, sent you a PM. Tried to amend it, but you're full.

I'll take the 454, not need for other.

PM me and let me have some details,i.e. mail address, etc.

45 2.1

01-31-2006, 10:41 PM

Lee re-cut the cavities rather than make new ones, and they did it dry so as to not have to clean them again. I have been cutting metal for 35 of my 40 years so my judgement has some experience behind it. I would not be surprised if the roughness is nt actually small alum. shavings re-welded to the surface, and it might come off quite easily. Bill

Exactly what it looks like Bill. I'm going to shape a small screwdriver and sharpen it to cut off the shaving in the nose. Already tried it with a small pocket knife and they came off.

13Echo

02-01-2006, 09:47 PM

Just got mine. The ogive is a bit rough but not as bad as I feared. I'm pleased to report the grease grooves and driving bands are sharp and clean. I'll just get out the magnifier and see if I can clean up the noses a bit, but, I do believe it's going to be a good bullet whatever the schnoze looks like. Thanks for all the trouble.
Jerry Liles

old goat

02-01-2006, 10:00 PM

...Mold received. Thanks

...old goat

mick27

02-03-2006, 05:18 PM

will,
got mine ,thanks for all your efforts. looks like you took your job more seriously then LEE did ! can't believe they'd let a job out the door that looked like that !!
I guess thats a sign of the times, Tool& Die work used to be an ART, now a days when the computer does something wrong, nobody knows how to fix it!!! just pack it up and sell it.... I stoned mine, will let you know it works. Again, Will, many thanks from us all !

mick27

hpdrifter

02-03-2006, 11:24 PM

.... I stoned mine, will let you know it works. Again, Will, many thanks from all of us.

mick27

how did you get it to inhale?

KB291

02-04-2006, 09:42 PM

Got it , thanks again.
Ken

C1PNR

02-05-2006, 01:08 AM

I think I forgot to report the arrival at Zip 83706 in fine shape.

I tried removing some chips with my fingernail and some did come off. I don't think it'll be a big problem.

Thanks again for running this buy for us. And special thanks for holding Lee to providing a product we contracted to buy, and not one they threw together.

Hans

02-06-2006, 06:39 PM

Got the mould the other day. Thanks for all you'r trouble!!

GLL

02-06-2006, 10:07 PM

Bill:

Mine arrived today in good order. Thank you again for all of your efforts even if Lee did not hold up their end of the deal !

I will break out the Fordom unit, felt buffing points, and some fine abrasive and see if I can work on the bullet noses without doing any damage (any more than Lee already did). The band areas look fine.

You gave it your best ! :)

Jerry

Willbird

02-07-2006, 07:49 AM

It was a pleasure doing the work, sorta hehe.

I am going to try some steel wool pushed down into the nose area and spun by hand first, maybe with a pencil eraser ??

Also casting a bullet around a screwdriver or a bolt may allow the chips to be broken right off with just one rotation.

Bill