armor piercing ammo

[atr]

I have a lot of black tipped armor piercing 30-06 ammunition manufactured in the 1950's. My question: would shooting this ammunition do anything detrimental to the bore of a rifle? Or would it do anything detrimental at all?

thanks
and Happy New Year to all
atr

[cwtebay]

I acquired quite a bit of AP 30-06 in the early 90's. It didn't seem to hurt the barrel any and I don't think it was corrosive at all. One experience that I'm sure you already know - don't shoot it at your favourite steel targets!

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[Tatume]

AP ammo does not put the penetrator in contact with the barrel. The bullet jacket is ordinary gilding metal. However, I would be suspicious of corrosive priming, especially if the ammo is of foreign manufacture.

[HWooldridge]

A friend of mine had quite a bit that he had picked up somewhere. Shot fine from his Garand, but it was corrosive primed. Not sure of original manufacture.

[Winger Ed.]

Any ammo that old, I'd clean after shooting as if it had corrosive primers.


A simple test to see is take one apart, dump the powder and shoot the primed case against
a piece of bare steel. Then shoot a modern primed case against it.

Leave them both outside.
If one has a corrosive primer- the spot on the steel will rust WAY faster than the new primer spot.

[country gent]

Also if you are shooting at a public range or club check as many dont allow AP or tracers to be used. Manufactured in the 50s it could be corrosive clean as if and no problem

[atr]

its all stamped 1955 Salt Lake manufacture, all in en-blocks for the Garand. I am not sure when they stopped using corrosive primers.
Thanks for your thoughts
atr

[cwtebay]

I understand that it was supposed to be done in 1952, but I'm sure some was used shortly thereafter.

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[turtlezx]

what about commercal ammo win rem move away from corrosive??????

[rancher1913]

not sure i would be talking about armor piercing ammo to loudly

[M-Tecs]

not sure i would be talking about armor piercing ammo to loudly

Black tipped armor piercing 30-06 ammunition was exempted from the 1985 Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act that banned most other AP.

[wch]

US armor peircing ammunition has a hardened penetrator that is contained within a copper jacket, making it no different in bore wear than ordinary ball ammunition.
If your ammo is foriegn made by a NATO country then it will be similar.

[nannyhammer]

Check the resale value before you shoot it.......Some of the black tip stuff ain't cheap.

[JSnover]

Check the resale value before you shoot it.......Some of the black tip stuff ain't cheap.

What he said!
If you decide to shoot it just clean it afterwards. Corrosive primers didn't ruin any barrels; Not cleaning properly or often enough has ruined a lot of barrels.
I shot WW2 surplus in my Grand (1954 H&R) for a few years and made a point of running a watered patch down the bore after brushing, followed by a dry patch, then standard GI Bore cleaner (50s or 60s surplus) until they came out clean. There wasn't a thing wrong with the bore when I sold it to a buddy of mine.

[Bazoo]

Last I saw, that black tipped ammo brought about $2 each. Course... regular 30-06 wasn't far behind that last I checked either.

[atr]

M-Tecs.....thanks for the note about the 1985 Law...

[atr]

Just a thought....
I was reading through Col. Hatcher's book last night and he stated in the book that no small arms military ammunition was made with corrosive primers after 1950.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I have read that the AP black tip ammo was issued almost exclusively by the end of WW II. I did a stint in the Army 1961-64 and the first two years we still had the M1 Garand, which was subsequently replaced by the M14. I shot well enough to participate in the unit's rifle team for 2 summers, two with the M1, and all we were issued for practice, competition, and live fire exercises was AP ammo. Conversely, I never saw any AP for the M14, just FMJ. I have also read that the production of .30-06 ammo with corrosive primers ended near the end of the Korean War, so "'50-'56" seems likely. I do not believe that the AP ammo wears the bore any faster than regular ball. I have also read, but am lucky not to have experienced it first hand, that modern body armor with the ceramic plates will stop .30-06 AP. No....I don't intend to prove or disprove the claim. :D

DG

[Winger Ed.]

You might want to save at least some just for fun and 'experimentation'.
Back in the old days, you could buy AP and tracer bullet pulls at gun shows for about $10. per hundred.
Back then, I got a few just to have and to 'see what they'd do'.
I loaded them in 7.62, .30-06, and a few in .300WinMag.
AP and even tracers in the .300 is pretty impressive.

[cwtebay]

I have read that the AP black tip ammo was issued almost exclusively by the end of WW II. I did a stint in the Army 1961-64 and the first two years we still had the M1 Garand, which was subsequently replaced by the M14. I shot well enough to participate in the unit's rifle team for 2 summers, two with the M1, and all we were issued for practice, competition, and live fire exercises was AP ammo. Conversely, I never saw any AP for the M14, just FMJ. I have also read that the production of .30-06 ammo with corrosive primers ended near the end of the Korean War, so "'50-'56" seems likely. I do not believe that the AP ammo wears the bore any faster than regular ball. I have also read, but am lucky not to have experienced it first hand, that modern body armor with the ceramic plates will stop .30-06 AP. No....I don't intend to prove or disprove the claim. :D

DGI can disprove that claim. I have 2 "expired" ceramic plate carriers from a LEO that fail pretty much anything that has a black tip - including the 30-06 until around 150 yards.

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[Loudenboomer]

I've taken the penetrator out put it in drilled out 5160 steel rod and made a center punch.

[Winger Ed.]

I've taken the penetrator out put it in drilled out 5160 steel rod and made a center punch.

The core on a .50BMG AP works for that real well too.
Its also big enough not to need a extension handle.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

That could very well be. I don't recall distance of tests being mentioned.

DG

[kerplode]

I can disprove that claim. I have 2 "expired" ceramic plate carriers from a LEO that fail pretty much anything that has a black tip - including the 30-06 until around 150 yards.

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Not all ceramic plates are rated for AP. '06 AP will punch through a Level III plate.

As it is, Level IV is only rated to stop one round of 7.62x51mm AP @ 2880fps.

This chart has the dates which the various US Mil plants switched to noncorrosive primers. Sorry, it got reduced during the upload, but hopefully it's still readable.
321727

Edited to add:
SL switched M2AP to noncorrosive at the 7-52 acceptance lot. So 1955 should be non corrosive. Probably still good insurance to clean as if corrosive, however.

[nicholst55]

Remington and Winchester stopped using corrosive primers prior to WWII, although I'm not certain of the actual date.

[FelixTheCat]

The UK government plant at Radway Green was loading corrosive primers up to the 1960s. Always be wary of using milsurp ammunition as the use of corrosive primers stayed around much longer for military use. Nearly all UK RG .303 has corrosive primers.

Adding Potassium Chlorate to the primer mix extended its working life to around 25years and also improved its performance at both low and high temperatures, so military users tended to hang on to it for operational reasons.

Using AP ammunition probably doubles the danger area for conventional FMJ lead ammunition. The ricochet hazard is much greater as the core tends to separate on impact and take off virtually unaffected. I would suggest you only ever fire it on ranges with good, soft backstops or in very isolated areas. There is a famous video of a guy getting hit by his own ricochet.. I would put money on it being AP.

I would only ever shoot AP from inside an armoured vehicle or from behind hard cover.