Worlds Best Cast Bullet Group?

[KCSO]

I got a SHOOTING TIMES yesterday and in it one of the writers (Rick Jamison?) was claiming to have shot a .2" group for 5 shots at 100 yards with cast bullets. Two tenths of an inch? I would think that that would be a record setting group in the CBA. Was this a misprint, or shot with a typewriter?

[drinks]

KCSO;
You cynic, you!
Dare you doubt the holy word of a GUN MAG. writer?
Shame on you!
;D

[Pilgrim]

It just might be true. Jamison is a pretty straight fellow. I've talked with him and he wasn't stuck up at all. I suspect he didn't say he could consistently shoot groups that size.

A couple of years ago I shot a .242" group with my .223 (5 shot, 100 yds, benchrest, rebarreled Ruger #1, 1:12 twist, lapped barrel) with the RCBS 22-055 boolit, lubed with LBT Blue. I think the sizer used was .224 ( I have both .224 and .225). I also weighed those boolits and they were +/- .1 gr (58 gr. average). I was so excited I repeated the group using the same stuff and process about a week later just to prove it wasn't a fluke. It was a fluke. :o( The next group was about 1". I don't recall the load offhand. FWIW...Pilgrim

[StarMetal]

I feel and believe that Jamison is the most honest and maybe most intelligent gun writer out there. His stuff has always always been technical. He never tries to be a captivating story writer. He has ALL kind of test equipment that some of the stuff only a ballistic lab would have. I believe the man can shoot.

Joe

[hpdrifter]

oh, I thought you's gonna pat everyone on the back here.

[felix]

Pilgrim, might not have been a fluke at all. You have to be a well practiced BR shooter with the proper equipment to be able to repeat groups day in and day out. Yes, it could have been a faulty load, but my money would have been on your ambient conditions falling into place without you knowing it. Something like wibbles compensating for wobbles, as well as shooting when the wind puffs/swells were kosher for the event. Why am I saying this? Your group was in the twos. ... felix

[sundog]

Everyone HERE gets a pat on the back. Five shot groups don't really tell anything unless they are repeatable. Repeatable. Did I repeat myself. Ten (or more) shot groups really tell. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. sundog

[mike in co]

ok kiddies here we go again.....................
i shoot competiton that requires 5 or 10 shoots per target.
i also shoot competiton that is ONE shot per target,and
some that is TWO shots per target.

for br load development i often only shoot 3 in a group.

for my normal( 'splain"normal") load work i do 7

i only shoot at targets...paper and steel.
i think for hunting three is great.....cause if you cant get'em in two you're out of luck.

i have shot as little as 0.116 for some , and others that were measured in inches, no need for tenths.

there are two differnt things at play: how good does the platform(gun/scope/load) shoot and how good does the shooter work the platform.
i have no use for stand up shooting.......in todays day and age...it makes you a target. even if i was a hunter, i would look for any support i could get before going vertical..........

i'm a technician. i like seeing how well of a platform i can assemble. i have no desire to see all that work go to waste by standing up and wiggling all over the place.
thats just me..........prone and bench.....

ask me about the circles........

[Bass Ackward]

I hear the 10 shot argument and I play it to be able to relate. Sometimes I wonder if there isn't a difference though. I have been playing around with my Whelen enough now to learn about the gun load combination I am shooting.

The first 5 shots from a clean barrel are in the .750 range on average. This is very consistent and predictable. Never is there a positive surprise in this group. I can't beat the fliers.

The next 5 shot average has been .463. In this segment I have had several groups go down into the .200 range on a few attempts if the 10th shot doesn't start to open things up again. The best temperature range here seems to be 50 to 60 degrees at the rate I shoot.

The third 5 shot group is capable of the .300 range if everything is or stays right and a lot of this is temperature, humidity and me, but .558 is the average now. And this segment is the most unpredictable of all 5 shot segments. Hot days and you can open this up remarkably.

The fourth 5 range is back up to 3/4" and fairly predictable with no positive surprises. Pretty temperature stable too.

By 40 shots I am in the 1 1/4 class if I don't clean.

IF I fire only 5 shots and let the gun set for two weeks, I have a ligitimate 1 3/4" on my hands for the first 5. The next 5 gets me back to 1". Clean, and the sequence repeats itself. So it ain't me.

Considering that this is a 2200 fps hunting load, I don't care what we call it. One of these days I want to try a low velocity accuracy load in this gun and try the 5 shot segment game again and see how accuracy compares at that level. I suspect that it will be .... less erratic except for the failure to clean test which is probably lube.

So how do you classify this combo for accuracy using a 10 shot criteria? It depends on where you start the 10 shot count.

[StarMetal]

How about this method for a group. Ross Seyfred mentioned it one time. It mainly pertains to hunting rifles. Like he said when you go hunting and you see game that you shoot at, your barrel is cold. That first shot is from a cold barrel. He suggests then going to the bench and shooting one shot. They put the gun back in the safe till the next day. Then back out to the bench and one more shot. He said to repeat this till you shoot the number of shots you want the group to be and this will give you a more realistic way of seeing where that first shot is going to land.

Joe

[Ricochet]

I've shot quite a few 1 shot groups of .000". One holers. And I can show you targets with those groups all over them.

[mike in co]

How about this method for a group. Ross Seyfred mentioned it one time. It mainly pertains to hunting rifles. Like he said when you go hunting and you see game that you shoot at, your barrel is cold. That first shot is from a cold barrel. He suggests then going to the bench and shooting one shot. They put the gun back in the safe till the next day. Then back out to the bench and one more shot. He said to repeat this till you shoot the number of shots you want the group to be and this will give you a more realistic way of seeing where that first shot is going to land.

Joe


welllllllll
i actually do this for several of my rifles.
hang the target, shoot, same time , same spot, same target, 24 hrs later,and i try to shoot time and temp that the match will be.
some guns dont measure much off the first clean cold, some do so it helps to know where that first one or two will go.

if i can i, "foul" the bbl with a shot or two if i can before the match.

then how far off is a 5(3)/10(eight more)/20(eighteen more) shot group after the 1st/2nd shots.
i told you im a technician.

[Wayne Smith]

How about this method for a group. Ross Seyfred mentioned it one time. It mainly pertains to hunting rifles. Like he said when you go hunting and you see game that you shoot at, your barrel is cold. That first shot is from a cold barrel. He suggests then going to the bench and shooting one shot. They put the gun back in the safe till the next day. Then back out to the bench and one more shot. He said to repeat this till you shoot the number of shots you want the group to be and this will give you a more realistic way of seeing where that first shot is going to land.

Joe


For starters, a 50 minute drive to the range kinda cuts that process out completely. Then, o'course, I gotta go to work, which also puts a crimp in the process.

Great in theory, but a little lacking in practice.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

If you really want to know what is attainable and repeatable, check out the CBA records for five, 5-shot groups at 100 and 200. That's the real world talking group size.

Rich

[nelson133]

I've shot quite a few 1 shot groups of .000". One holers. And I can show you targets with those groups all over them.

Me too, I've been known to shoot 10 to 20 one hole groups on the same target with just that many shots.