New Ruger .44 Mag Blackhawk Real Bummer!!!!

[Hickok]

Ordered and just received a new Ruger Super Blackhawk Stainless with 4.6" barrel. At the shop, looked it over and it seemed OK.

Everything was looking good as I was preparing to clean and lube the revolver for a trip to the range. I removed the yellow plastic ring at the rear of the cylinder, (usual for the new Blackhawks) and reinserted the cylinder. I immediately noticed considerable daylight through the cylinder/barrel gap! Looked like I could insert a dime in the gap, just a swag guess!!!

I grabbed a feeler gauge and a .021" would go halfway, and .020" would easily pass through!

I would have preferred a .006" cylinder gap, but .020" is just ridiculous.

Also the grip panels were very ill fitting, (I know, I should have seen it when I bought it), being very small compared to the stainless frame. I was going to replace these anyway.

The grip frame screws were very loose, the heads on one screw stuck up proud of the frame hole.

Does a person have to take feeler gauges, headspace gauges, micrometers and calipers with them nowadays to check out a new firearm!

I called Ruger, went back to my FFL dealer and the revolver is going back to the mother ship.

The bad grip fit, and loose screws I can deal with, BUT a .020" cylinder/barrel gap from the factory......who checks these revolvers before shipment, .....Blind Melon Chitlins???

Ruger has always seemed good as to customer service, I sure hope they still are!

[Bazoo]

Sorry to hear of it. Good luck with it.

I had a SBH that they never did get right. They finally replaced it with a new gun. I sold the new gun and got the 44 Special Blackhawk I have now.

[Tatume]

Sorry you have to go through this, but Ruger will take care of you.

[black mamba]

Yeeesh, I've never heard of a gap that large. Next time get a BFR . . . they run around .003-.004" barrel to cylinder and have the free-spin pawl (nice feature!).

[Rockindaddy]

Dump that Ruger and buy a Colt Anaconda 44 mag!!!

[Abert Rim]

I have grown discouraged with Ruger's poor-QC "kit guns." There is no excuse for garbage to leave their factory.

[Loudenboomer]

Had a 480 SBH that arrived Ill fitting and out of time. Pulling the hammer was similar to kicking over my old Harley. Sent it back. I was very impressed when it was returned. I think the business plan is to rely on good machining and cheep fast help assembling. Many customers may not know or care if there gun is only almost good enough. For the Few that do. Send it back and we'll make it right by paying the high dollar guy make sure it fits. Probably saves them money in the long run. Not just picking on Ruger. I have a rather expensive Springfield Armory 1911 that would not run reliably after hundreds of rounds. Returned it and it came back excellent.

[Hickok]

I have to say that I am still shaking my head about this .020" cylinder gap.

Just checked my Ruger New Vaquero 45 Colt and it is .005"

My Ruger Single Six is also .005".

My S&W 629 is .006" and S&W 586 is .005", and my old Police trade-in S&W Model 19 runs .009".

I measured that brand-new .44 Magnum Blackhawk 3 times just to be sure I wasn't in the "Twilight Zone", but just holding it up to the light, it looked like you could use a dime to gauge it.

When I measured .020" cylinder gap, I knew I didn't want to shoot it. So back to Ruger she goes.

[Bazoo]

It'd be interesting to hear the response of Rugers CS rep if you call (sounds like you're going to have the gun store handle it?).

It'd go something like this.
Did you shoot it?
No... Why would I?
How do you know somethings wrong if you haven't shot it yet?

When I had the SBH, I called and complained about it leading badly. We had a go round about me shooting cast reloads. I flexed my technical grey matter on the subject. After I explained I'd tried different alloys, different bullets, different lubes, different sizes, slugged the bore... the woman said "I'll send you a return label for $30".

I love Ruger's guns, but their customer service has taken a nose dive in the last 20 years.

[castmiester]

buying used old isn't a bad thing.. is it.

[murf205]

buying used old isn't a bad thing.. is it.

Especially when a new gun cost what they do now.

[contender1]

First off,, I'll say it sounds as if you got one that isn't as it should be.

And yes,, Ruger will fix it. They still have a good customer service dept.

Sadly,, we have a normal human reaction to loudly complain about a bad item,, but the good stuff gets ignored. I'm NOT making excuses here,, but it's just a normal thing to hear a lot more "bad" stories than the ones that sing praises.

With that thought out of the way,, I'll try & address what most likely has happened.

Ruger Firearms is no longer Bill Ruger's "Sturm, Ruger & Co." When it was under Bill's control,, we all lamented on how LONG it took to get many guns,, especially the "newly introduced" models. Often up to 2 years or more until the average gun shop would get one or two in stock. Again,, lots of complaints.
But in general,, the guns we did get were being built slower & by "gun people" who understood what we needed.

Bill passed, Bill Jr. run things for a while,, then he too is gone,, and currently,, not a single Bill Ruger relative is involved in the Company.

The company suffered a bit,, and had issues to where the stock price,, (remember this fact,) got below $5 a share. We were looking at the possibility of not even having a Ruger firearm company.

Enter new management,, and different ideas. With an eye towards stockholders, and profits. We saw the company change the SR logo to the "Hard "R" logo. We also saw a lot of "lean manufacturing" stuff get implemented.

In just a few years,, we were no longer waiting very long to get a new gun in our hands. Manufacturing methods were changed. And another thing was how the workforce changed. To be able to afford to sell the guns at a profit,, as older "gun people" retired,,, or whatever,, they hired machine operators,, as well as streamlining assembly methods. It increased the production,, and we've seen them make One Million guns in one year,, and follow that with a year where they made two Million guns in a year.

The key here is now,, many of the assembly line workforce are NOT gun people. They are there to operate a machine, or assemble a part to a gun as it goes down the line. They use gauges at each station to see that what they do fits in the tolerances,, then pass it on to the next station. Production is the key thought. Experienced gun builders cost more to hire & pay than parts assemblers. And they can slow down production schedules.

As such,, a percentage of the guns will pass each station tolerance,, yet fail in a customer's hands when they discover an issue like the barrel to cylinder gap. A gun person would catch that,, while a parts assembler may miss it.

Apparently,, you got one of the guns that the gap was considered "good enough" by an assembler,, and passed along.

OR,,,,,,,,,, And this has happened.
An assembler gets upset on the job,, and wants to get back at the company,, by sending out guns that they know will return,, costing the company money. Doesn't happen often,, but it has happened.

So,, a polite call, and a return to them will get it corrected.

Oh,, and just to point it out,, this is NOT just a Ruger problem. It's ALL gun makers where production is the driving force.

[6string]

Ever since Bill Ruger passed away, the company is "Ruger" in name only.

Not to single out Ruger, though. ALL the major firearms manufacturers have let quality decline. Now they're on par with the vast majority of other domestic manufacturers.

On the other hand, when you order mass produced stuff sight unseen, basically taking a roll of the dice, then you're taking your own chances. I guess manufacturers figure that in such a retail marketplace they can get away with a lot most of the time.

[castmiester]

Well that’s good to know.. stay away from new stuff. Or buy smiths or whatever.

[M-Tecs]

Overall Ruger's QC is not the same as it was under Bill with one exception. Bill never understood what it took to make an accurate rifle barrel. Best example is the Ruger Palma Rifles Bill made for the Palma team in 1992. Under Bill even the top-of-the-line rifles were hit and miss for accuracy. Today even the economy Ruger rifles tend to shoot extremely well.

[trapper9260]

Sad to hear how Ruger went . I have different wheel guns of theirs and always happy with them. Now it looks to see other makes that might be a little better. Things for the heads up on this .

[contender1]

Buying new now is not a bad thing,, just different. And as I said,, it's NOT just Ruger. Smiff & Weston have similar issues. :D

Having spoken with Ruger management directly about QC & all,,, it's actually surprising at the low PERCENTAGES of the returns. Why we apparently SEEM to see more "bad" guns is that a LOT more of them are being built annually than when Bill was running things,, and hard core production numbers weren't a driving force. And even under Bill,,, bad ones did escape the factory. I recently saw pictures of a 1957 .357 where the forcing cone was totally cut WRONG.
It happens,, even when "gun folks" build stuff.
But the low percentages of the returns was an eye opener. Picking on hypothetical numbers here,, let's look at things.
Say Ruger builds 30,000 of a model. (And yes,, they do that in a year.) At a 2% return rate,, that's 600 guns returned. And most often,, that 600 guns just happens to be real gun people,, not the average Joe who buys a gun and a box of ammo, and shoots very little, or isn't a real gun person.
That said,, I was given return numbers from as low as .04% to as high as 3.9% across the board.

We just have to remember,, in todays world,, it's mass manufacturing,, or hand-made custom. Mass manufacturing,, reduces costs,, and gives us a lot of an item. Hand-made custom,, long backlog and very expensive. Think; Ruger vs Freedom Arms. You order a FA now,, give them a deposit, and you have a 2 year wait. And you pay 4-6 times the cost of a Ruger.
But many, many mass mfged guns are actually better guns than most shooters can operate. We serious gun people who are deeply into them,, are a minority.
Heck,, start talking about reloading,, and many shooters are not reloaders & scared of doing it. Add in casting,, and often you get a glazed look as if you are performing magic. Throw in swaging,, and a huge number of shooters are totally surprised a home set up is even possible. Heck,, I just read a posting ON HERE,, in the swaging section from 2017,, where a guy is forming his own brass cases that use a primer. Several members here were surprised by that. There are tens of millions of gun owners. I've heard that approximately 1/3 of Americans own guns. With a population of 330 million people,, that's 110 million gun owners. Reloaders, casters, and swagers are a small percentage of that number. Brass case makers are VERY few people in all of that.

My point is that while we do seem to see QC issues pop up a lot,, the actual percentages of bad ones is lower than what many may think. But they do happen,, and a good manufacturer will correct stuff.

[Hickok]

Let me explain in full, I did call Ruger and the lady who answered was very nice. I explained the excessive cylinder gap. She had me wait while she "looked up cylinder gap." She then had me wait while she contacted a "Tech" person. She then said to send the revolver back and she was sorry this happened.

She gave me a choice, she would send me an RMA, but I had to leave the revolver off at a Fed-Ex main terminal, not a drop box, or I could have my dealer FFl send it back, after they called Ruger explaining situation. She would then send dealer RMA for shipping.

I don't have any Fed-Ex terminals close, so the dealer agreed to send it back.

The Ruger representative was very cordial.:smile:

[fordwannabe]

JUST A SLIGHT THREAD DRIFT ABOUT RUGER, I have an ongoing issue with the USPS having lost two of my Ruger cylinders (AAAARRRGGGGHHH). In trying to figure out what to do to get new cylinders I contacted Ruger and they would not sell me just the cylinders because these are a "fitted item." I would have to send my frames back to Ruger. In discussion with others "in the know" Ruger will remove any non stock part and REPLACE AT YOUR COST any non original parts. My magna ported barrel, better front and rear sights, all internal parts that were replaced and fitted(action job", ect. Just an FYI about Ruger.

[725]

I don't buy many handguns, but a month or two ago I went looking to see what was out there. I was shocked. s&w's, rugers and even most of the colt's were trash I wouldn't ever buy. ymmv, and I hope it does, but what I saw was pure garbage. I'll just keep my old issue and be happy.

[FAAFO6]

I've posted elsewhere about two different S&W revolvers purchased new in 1998 and 2007. One of them absolutely would not cycle at all to one of the charge holes. It obviously had been test fired ONLY on one chamber. Was the result of a poor cylinder ratchet fit on that particular chamber which I could fix. The other one (2007 manufacture date) had a very visible crack in the crane so never even fired it before sending it back to S&W. This one also had obviously been test fired on one chamber only. These both were internet purchases so no pre-purchase inspections could be done. Quality control now at S&W is nonexistent as far as I am concerned and seemed to disappear in the early to mid 1990's. This seems to be the case with most of the manufacturers these days. Sad.

[376Steyr]

Somebody had several posts here a couple of years ago, with horror stories of working at one of the Ruger plants and the managers being so obsessed with production numbers that they would refuse to shut down the line even when the machinery went out of adjustment and made defective parts.

[1eyedjack]

All manufacturers are in the business to make money period. Mass production is the norm and the "assemblers " put together the guns. Quality control doesn't inspect each and every gun thoroughly. The samples are gauged and checked prior to shipping most go through the assembly line getting a cursory look and if its break time, quitting time, Monday morning or Lord knows what we as gun folks discover those that SHOULD have gone back for adjustment or repairs. Some guns go bang and the new owner is somewhat happy because that's all they expect! Remember consumers are accustomed to imported third world cheap labor from the lowest price suppliers think Wal-Mart..?.

[charlie b]

My son and I have worked in quite a few different manufacturing fields. ALL of them are subjected to poor management practices that severely affect the products. That includes food production.

Even the old ISO9000 (and derivative) 'standards' were (and are) whitewash to make the top management feel better or something to advertise as a 'bonus'.

I have had some good company management to work for. One specifically was a company started from scratch by the then current president. He started by running each of the machines himself so he could properly manage the production. He knew what it took to sell a product and part of that was quality over quantity. It was a tough place to work, but, everyone knew where the issues were and worked to minimize them, from the boss all the way down to the line worker. I had one other company that way as well, a line operator who worked his way up. Both eventually sold to investment firms and everything went to ****. They are out of business now.

[beechbum444]

another point of concern is the consumers. Im betting the consumers of today are not the consumers of years ago. The only reason I know about feeler gauges and cylinder gap tolerances is because of this forum and the thousands of you all that learned the hard way and have passed the knowledge onto me. This forum is an endless library of knowledge that the vast majority of the 30 and under crowd will never know.......thank you all

[stubshaft]

I have mixed feelings about Rugers Customer Service Department. Over the years I have had to return 4 different Blackhawks to them for a variety of reasons. In most of the cases the work was done in a competent and professional manner. The last pistol I sent them was a .30 Carbine Blackhawk which I had bought new. The front sight wasn't clocked properly, and I could not adjust the windage enough to compensate. I was told that they (Ruger) would fix the problem BUT after the repair I would have to have the pistol reblued and would be charged$175.00 to have this done? Bear in mind that there were only about 50 rounds put through this pistol and it was a QC problem that should have been caught before it left the factory.

So much for customer service...

[Hickok]

Stubshaft, I ran into the same thing with a New S&W 586 .357 magnum I bought.

The barrel wasn't "clocked" correctly by the factory. No amount of windage would zero the revolver. The misalignment wasn't real obvious until shooting and a close inspection. I should have sent it back to the factory, but my blood had grown hot:evil:, and I had the barrel vise, and frame inserts to fit the S&W, and so I dialed the barrel and frame together in a proper position.


The S&W barrels are a "crush fit" when threaded into the frame, or so I have read, so I took the chance that I could move the barrel slightly to get proper alignment.

I know Glocks are simple and plain, but that is the genius of the design. I have had many different Glocks over the years, and still do,.... and right out of the box, they are good to go, no problems, and up to spec.

I know people love or hate Glocks, but the ones I have, or have had, are spot on, right from the box.

[lolbell]

I know people love or hate Glocks, but the ones I have, or have had, are spot on, right from the box.

This has been my experience with Ruger. I now own 50 or so Rugers, never have had a problem with any of them. I did have the throats reamed on an older 45c Blackhawk. Accuracy was good but leading was a problem with my cast boolits. The reaming made the leading go away

[Ed K]

I think the short version of Contender1's two posts might be: The new Ruger has decided that since 95+% of all customers are satisfied when a handgun goes bang and a hole appears in the target at 7 yards, it is far cheaper to handle the returns from the shooters on this and similar forums than try to manufacture the way Bill used to.

I buy plastic pistols produced in this century and steel ones from the last.

[Tatume]

Ask a question and let people volunteer to answer, such as a poll in a newspaper, website or Internet forum. About 2.5% who are strongly in favor and another 2.5% who strongly disagree will respond. No information is gathered on the 95% who declined to participate.

[Hickok]

Ruger says the revolver has been sent to their "tech department" and turnaround time is about 4 to 6 weeks.

Well I guess that is really about a normal time.

So far Ruger reps. have been very good in communication.

[fordwannabe]

Anybody see plowboys video from last night? His 41 mag was shipped with no rear sight or ejector assembly ( rod or housing)

[Bazoo]

Anybody see plowboys video from last night? His 41 mag was shipped with no rear sight or ejector assembly ( rod or housing)

I've not seen the video, but WOW! Talk about someone blindly doing their job.

[Gray Fox]

I traded into a blued Ruger Old Army that according to the website is from the first year of production. I called Ruger wanting to see what it would cost to have it reblued. I was told they would not do it since they have no remaining parts and if a spring or detent or other small part "got lost on the floor" they wouldn't be able to replace it. A sad state of affairs, but at least they were honest about it. GF

[gc45]

I don't buy many handguns, but a month or two ago I went looking to see what was out there. I was shocked. s&w's, rugers and even most of the colt's were trash I wouldn't ever buy. ymmv, and I hope it does, but what I saw was pure garbage. I'll just keep my old issue and be happy.

The way of right now. Gun makers have slowed or stopped building the old quality of the past so the trash is coming out for sale and many are buying it, and for to high a price. The left along with enviornmentalists are doing a good job ruining our rights and it effects us all; makers, sellers and buyers alike in every aspect of life's desires.

[Kai]

I don't buy many handguns, but a month or two ago I went looking to see what was out there. I was shocked. s&w's, rugers and even most of the colt's were trash I wouldn't ever buy. ymmv, and I hope it does, but what I saw was pure garbage. I'll just keep my old issue and be happy.

I could not agree more. So many of the new guns and QC by the bigger manufacturers are just not what they used to be. There was mention of percentages of poor-quality guns being lower in relation to the larger quantity produced. Perhaps but this is not the way it should be. Something like the OPs gun should never went out the door.

[MaLar]

Can you tell me where to find plowboys video?

[elmacgyver0]

My Uberti Cattleman 1873 .357mag revolver locked up, found the bolt was broke.
I got an RMA to send it in as it is in warranty, but really did not feel good about sending it in, besides, I would have to pay freight getting it there.
After an email conversation with their head tech guy, he is sending a new bolt to me which I will fit myself.
Saves us both a bunch of money and with the way things are now perhaps a lost revolver.

[Hickok]

Can you tell me where to find plowboys video?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRGpH6cphBo

[DougGuy]

Thank you Hickok, I can't watch a lot of youtube videos b/c I refuse to disable my adblocker and agree to their ads. Testing this to see if it will play here..



http://www.youtu.be/watch?v=KRGpH6cphBo

It plays for me here, did plowboy ever receive his parts from Ruger? The ending doesn't say.

I have had Ruger's CS send me parts quite a few times, no charges no postage.

[Hickok]

I hope Plowboy checks the cylinder/barrel gap!!!:bigsmyl2:

[MaLar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRGpH6cphBo

Thanks

[wolfwing]

Had a 480 SBH that arrived Ill fitting and out of time. Pulling the hammer was similar to kicking over my old Harley. Sent it back. I was very impressed when it was returned. I think the business plan is to rely on good machining and cheep fast help assembling. Many customers may not know or care if there gun is only almost good enough. For the Few that do. Send it back and we'll make it right by paying the high dollar guy make sure it fits. Probably saves them money in the long run. Not just picking on Ruger. I have a rather expensive Springfield Armory 1911 that would not run reliably after hundreds of rounds. Returned it and it came back excellent.

Kel-Tec is like that too. 95% of their guns are fine for the 50-100 rounds/year shooter. If you send it back, they go thru the whole thing and make it 100% dream shooter.

[charlie b]

The way of right now. Gun makers have slowed or stopped building the old quality of the past so the trash is coming out for sale and many are buying it, and for to high a price. The left along with enviornmentalists are doing a good job ruining our rights and it effects us all; makers, sellers and buyers alike in every aspect of life's desires.

What does the left have to do with gun mfg quality issues? Just curious.

I don't blame the left for this. All of these quality issues are on the gun mfgs and have nothing to do with politics. I think it is just greed, like others have said. Put out a bunch of guns so the unknowing buy them. Accept the fact that less than 5% will be returned for repair. Then spend a bit of time fixing the issue and the 'gun people' will praise your customer service and the final product.

[Tatume]

This year already I've purchased two new Ruger revolvers. I intend to purchase another very soon. The quality is top notch.

[Hickok]

Ruger has sent my Super Blackhawk back, and it is perfect. They replaced the barrel and the cylinder! The barrel/cylinder gap is now .005".

Also they fitted new grips, as the original set were ill fitting. The new grip panels fit the frame smoothly, contoured nicely with stainless frame.

Great customer service from Ruger!:-D

[fordwannabe]

Hickok, did you send it back yourself or did you go through an FFL? Ruger wants $45 shipping each way to replace my cylinder if I send it in myself. THANKS USPS!!!!

[Hickok]

Hickok, did you send it back yourself or did you go through an FFL? Ruger wants $45 shipping each way to replace my cylinder if I send it in myself. THANKS USPS!!!!Friend, I had my dealer (FFL) send it back for me, and Ruger then returned the SuperBK to my dealer, no charge for warranty work.

When I first called Ruger, they said it would have to be returned Fed-EX,...had to be a Fed-Ex main office, no drop-box or by FFL. They would send RMA to me or my dealer.

[Tatume]

Post #3 Sorry you have to go through this, but Ruger will take care of you.


Ruger has sent my Super Blackhawk back, and it is perfect. They replaced the barrel and the cylinder! The barrel/cylinder gap is now .005".

Also they fitted new grips, as the original set were ill fitting. The new grip panels fit the frame smoothly, contoured nicely with stainless frame.

Great customer service from Ruger!:-D

Glad to hear it.