LAGS cracked TC stock repair

[armoredman]

Some photos that LAGS will be along to explain. BTW, I have an example of his stock repair, and I can barely see the line - it looks almost brand new.

Without further ado...

1.
https://i.imgur.com/EywR9k2.jpg

2.
https://i.imgur.com/9ez1tSh.jpg

3.
https://i.imgur.com/pAZCZG8.jpg

4.
https://i.imgur.com/yD1o3ch.jpg

5.
https://i.imgur.com/pKqJxR3.jpg

[LAGS]

The top picture is one of the Hybrid compared to some of the other TC's that I refurbished.
The bottom picture is a picture of a wrench I made for the Hybrid rifle mentioned in another post.
It is a tool.
Made out of a broken file that is used on the Hybrid to switch out the lock from flintlock to percussion.
It will have a screwdriver tip to take out the lock screw.
Take out the Flash Hole Liner and remove the Nipple and Nipple Drum.
The other pictures are of a Cracked TC Renegade stock that I bought.
A lot of TC's are known to crack the exact way.
Probably from people shooting really Hot Loads.
The other pictures are a couple of TC rifles that I bought cheap with cracked stocks.
You can see that those cracked can be repaired and used again.
I have even repaired some of the stocks that the buttstock had been totally removed.
When I do the repair on the latest stock , I might have pictures of how I do the repairs properly.
That will give you guys the option on repairing your stocks that have the same cracks.
Or it will allow you to buy other rifles cheaper that have those cracks.

[armoredman]

Whoops. OK, other pictures posted in the right thread - the whole day has gone this way so far, staying home for the rest of the day out of safety.

[LAGS]

The first thing I am going to do to the stock is to totally strip off the finish with Paint/ Epoxy type stripper.
You have to totally get all the finish off.
Especially inside the cracks.
I see many a stock ( even this one)
Where people just tried stuffing the crack with epoxy or wood glue.
Because of the old finish and possibly cleaning oil, the glue or epoxy won't stay bonded.
So to fix a crack like this.
You will have to Totally refinish the whole stock.

[charlie b]

A friend of mine made that mistake when repairing on old stock (not stripping it). Wood glue failed. Then he tried epoxy. By the time I got it I had to dremel out several layers of old glue and epoxy, then add filler when redone. Not pretty to look at but functional. Sad cause it was a nice figured walnut on an old French shotgun.

[LAGS]

I am also going to show you guys how to install Pins across the cracks to help Reinforce the stressed area.
I also on the TC stocks.
Add Dowels to reinforce areas to prevent future cracking.
Those dowels are not visible on the outside of the stock.
But do transfer the force so the stock doesn't crack again.
I very rarely have to use the Dremel tool to remove the old glue from previous repairs.
That Paint/ Epoxy stripper gets it out so you don't end up grinding out wood and having to fill in the larger cracks that end up showing.

[armoredman]

I have a rifle that LAGS fixed the stock - I have a very hard time finding the line, and it shoots like a laser.

[nekshot]

Awesome repairs only expierence can give. I sure am inspired by your craftsmenship. The base of very good talent on this forum is what keeps me popping in to have a looky see!

[LAGS]

I was able to finish stripping the original finish off that cracked stock shown in the pictures # 2&3.
I used Jasco epoxy paint stripper.
It also took off most of the Epoxy that the previous owner had tried to use to fix that crack.
I will post some more pictures of the stripped stock and how I am going to do the repairs and reinforcements.
From what I have seen on TC stocks that cracked is my opinion of why they cracked.
It looks like the barrel if loaded really super heavy or the gun is fired out of a Lead Sled shooting cradle.
The barrel rebounds against the lock retention screw that is across the stock , right behind the breech plug.
That causes a hard force in a thin part of the stock.
You will see that the way I reinforce the stock.
The stock will be strengthened to spread that force from the barrel recoil so the force is spread and doesn't split the stock.
On other TC rifles that I intended on shooting heavy loads.
I reinforced the stocks that had not been cracked.
The way I do the reinforcement is also blind and does not show on the outside of the stock.

[725]

eager to continue my studies at LAGS University! ha, ha. pictures / pictures & more pictures!

[LAGS]

I figured that since this type of crack is common on TC stocks.
This is going to be important information to show others.
Also,
This type of repair can be modified to do other types of stock repairs and possibly reinforcements to prevent cracks in the future.

[armoredman]

Here we go.

6.
https://i.imgur.com/UghvPER.jpg

7.
https://i.imgur.com/2uXFMIA.jpg

8.
https://i.imgur.com/GQPiyKK.jpg

9.
https://i.imgur.com/RjHceBY.jpg

[LAGS]

Hello guys.
The pictures 6 & 7 show how the stock looks after the finish was stripped off.
I still need to pry the crack open a little bit and clean out any of the old epoxy the original owner had tried to glue the stock with so the crack will close as much as it can .
It looks like the guy had uses 5 minute clear epoxy to try and repair the crack.
But it looks like he didn't clean out the crack, so the epoxy didn't end up sticking very good.
Plus the 5 minute epoxy isn't as strong , and limits your time to align the parts to clamp them together.

[elmacgyver0]

That cleaned up nice.

[LAGS]

The white rings that I drew on the stock in pictures 8 & 9 are where I am going to drill holes all the way thru the stock from top to bottom to use for clamping the crack close on some areas with a bolt.
Those two holes plus others will be used to install dowels glued in to help make the stock stronger , and not be visible when the rifle is reassembled.

[725]

I'm impressed with that jasco stripper. did a great job.

[LAGS]

That is one reason I strip the finish off the stock.
I see many times that people just squirt glue into a crack and clamp it closed to let it dry.
Then you end up with a line of glue that you can't Blend In to kind of make the repair not as visable.

[LAGS]

Because the stock had been tried to be repaired that first time.
And now a second time.
The crack is going to show up a little more than the crack repair show in picture 4.
But being aware of the double worked crack , you can do things to help hide the repair.
Like since more epoxy might be visible because of the wider crack.
You can mix the colored epoxy so it is darker brown than the other repair on pic 4.
The darker color makes it less noticable than a light colored repair.
Especially when you can stain the stock a little darker to match the epoxy repair.
One of the biggest mistakes that people make is trying to use Clear Glue.
They think it will be invisible.
NOT.
After a while it turns white , or remains so shiny that it jumps out when you look at it..
Colored glue works so much better to hide the repair.

[charlie b]

Yep, BTDT :) I use some paint mixed in with epoxy for repairs. One was wide enough that I also used some darker color to match the grain. Added it with a toothpick after things were setup.

5 min epoxy is horrible for wood. It starts to go off before it can 'soak' in the wood. My minimum for wood work is 30min stuff. Gives plenty of time to set up, clamp, wipe up excess and then absorb into the wood grain.

[LAGS]

If you test different epoxies , you will see that most 5 minute epoxies stay rubbery and gummy.
They don't seem to crystalize where you can sand them when they are dried.
I mostly use Glass Bedding Epoxy for my repairs.
But I have also used Crazy Glue.
But only in areas where you can put the glue on and set the piece in place and hold it to dry.
I have also used Crazy Glue on matching sawdust to fill some voids.
It works good , matches the stock color , and is very hard.
But you can't fill a void as easy unless the void has a bottom to retain the sawdust and crazy glued since it is such a thin liquid.

[Good Cheer]

When TC's manufacturing tolerances leaned in the wrong direction a condition was created that applies too much stress across the grain at the stocks' weakest point. When the barrel is lowered into place it pre-stresses the area. When the gun is fired it delivers a blow to that already pre-stressed weakest area. And voila, the typical TC cracked stock.
First thing that needs doing is to remove the source of the imposed stressing of the area.
To do that, make sure that the barrel isn't snapping into place when returned to the stock. If the bottom of the hooked breech is camming on the wood when it is lowered into position then it is imposing that stress across the grain, trying to pull it apart. Bed the tang in the position the barrel dictates rather than the position that the tang screw tightens it down into.
In 2017 to repair a badly cracked .54 Renegade I used epoxy and a long wood screw. The crack was cleaned and epoxy added followed by binding it closed. The hole was drilled and the screw was added down the hole filled with epoxy while the bindings holding the pieces together were still in place. The hooked breech was also bedded. The screw was cut off flush with the wood after curing. The cause of the cracking and the crack itself were both addressed at one time, stronger than the day it left the factory and the factory defect corrected.

[LAGS]

There are more pictures coming of my work.
Then I will include pictures of installing dowels to reinforce the stock similar to what you did with installing a longer tang screw in epoxy.
I will not be glass bedding this rifle tang or barrel Until I find the barrel that is going to be used on this stock.
But once I decide on what barrel I am going to use , I will be glass bedding the Tang , and possibly the whole barrel.
That will make a perfect fit , plus relieve any stress from the barrel to the stock.
I am sure there are dozens of ways to repair a cracked stock.
But many of these repairs can be done on a stock Before it ever cracks , like the reinforcing dowels or glass bedding.

[Good Cheer]

Sometimes a little file work on the hooked breech can help too.

https://i.imgur.com/xWnw3aq.jpg

[LAGS]

Thank you.
That is important information to help make the parts fit better.
One thing I do when I glass bed the Tang or barrel.
I make sure the tang properly fits the barrel hook.
Then I crazy glued the tang to the barrel.
Then when I do the bedding, the barrel and tang are in alignment so they will always be sitting in that position.
After I do the bedding.
I pull the barrel and tang out of the stock.
I just heat up the tang a little bit , and it breaks the glue loose so the tang can then come off the barrel hook.
Then when the tang is installed in the stock with the bedding.
The barrel and tang align perfectly.

[Electrod47]

Subscribed...Awesome work. Good to know where an expert is.

[armoredman]

I will have more pictures posted soon, hang tight, guys!

[armoredman]

And here we go;

10.
https://i.imgur.com/Lwqkd1R.jpg

11.
https://i.imgur.com/YGpb8tz.jpg

12.
https://i.imgur.com/6QqTVWo.jpg

13.
https://i.imgur.com/VIKDRXn.jpg

14.
https://i.imgur.com/Naop8ZQ.jpg

15.
https://i.imgur.com/pPicfy1.jpg

16.
https://i.imgur.com/gCHpXBN.jpg

17.
https://i.imgur.com/68xItxR.jpg

18.
https://i.imgur.com/i8nE5qI.jpg

[armoredman]

Whoops, these are backwards...I blame the pain meds for having minor back surgery today. :)

19.
https://i.imgur.com/9KZKMan.jpg

20.
https://i.imgur.com/Ltb02Vz.jpg

21.
https://i.imgur.com/V6ZRsiL.jpg

22.
https://i.imgur.com/jsDh8y9.jpg

23.
https://i.imgur.com/cVRg9Sg.jpg

24.
https://i.imgur.com/NfxFWfw.jpg

25.
https://i.imgur.com/VKY86H3.jpg

[LAGS]

Pictures 19 thru 25 show how I drilled holes thru the stock to install the bolts to clamp the crack closed , better than using clamps.
The holes will be filled with epoxied in dowels to reinforce the stock after the crack is epoxied back in place.

[LAGS]

Pictures 10 thru 18 show how I taped the stock to prevent making a mess while doing the epoxy.
The pictures show how I wedged the crack open a bit to be able to get the epoxy in all the way thru rather than just putting it on the surface.
Pictures 12, 13,&14 show that the epoxy squeezed out when the clamping was done.
I didn't remove the squeezed out epoxy till after the epoxy was dried , so it wouldn't disturb the epoxy in the crack.
You can see how it was filed down later in picture 18.
The next set of pictures when I epoxy the dowels in will show you how the filled in crack looks after some sanding.

[armoredman]

And today's series;

26.
https://i.imgur.com/7gv9oQy.jpg

27.
https://i.imgur.com/WzWixeK.jpg

28.
https://i.imgur.com/C5KhnLv.jpg

29.
https://i.imgur.com/I4meGlJ.jpg

30.
https://i.imgur.com/K7ajOBe.jpg

[LAGS]

Pictures 26,27,&28 show you the 3/8" oak dowels I epoxied into the holes that I drilled into the stock.
I had pictures #29 & 30 posted to show you guys what a full bedded stock will look like.
Like I said before.
On this stock , I am going to hold off on doing the glass bedding until I decide what barrel and tang that I am going to use.
I also have three other rifles being worked on that I want to finish before I decide what I am going to build out of that previously cracked stock.
I repaired the stock recently for two reasons.
One reason is to show you guys what can be done.
The second reason,
I now have another usable stock in my pile of spare parts.
Now it won't take long to build it in to a workable rifle.

[LAGS]

I have used the wood screws to repair the cracks.
I just feel that these dowels glued in transfer more of the parts recoil pressure.
Especially the dowel that is drilled into the hole where the lock screw goes thru.
If you look at where the bottom of the tang hits the stock.
That dowel is right there and you now have the grain of that dowel running the opposite direction than the wood stock.
Plus the oak is way harder than the walnut stock.
Same with the two dowels that go thru the stock under the tang.
Now you can use longer tang wood screws into that harder wood.
The dowels also provide more surface area than a screw epoxied into the stock.
Just my thoughts.
But it has worked great many times for me.

[charlie b]

I like it. :) Thanks for showing the details.

[LAGS]

One thing I pay attention to when I glass bead a tang in place is the location of the hammer to the nipple.
If you take a rifle.
Lower the hammer on to the nipple.
Then look at it from the side.
You will see if the hammer and nipple line up properly.
On many rifles , especially Kits ,
The barrel needs to be moved forward or back just a tiny bit to get the two parts to line up perfectly.
On this stock that was cracked.
I noticed that the barrel and tang had to be moved 1/16" to the rear when I bed the Tang to make sure the hammer is perfectly centered on the nipple.
Centering the hammer the other direction to left or right is done by bending the hammer if that is needed.