How do I seal an 1873 chamber in .45 Colt?

[justindad]

Last spring/summer I was itching for a rifle. My FIL says: “don’t go buying a gun, take this brand new Winchester 1873 .45 Colt and have fun!” And so I am.
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There’s two things I want to do before I am done playing with this rifle, which I cannot do with satisfaction until I get the chamber to seal: 1) get my 8 yo boy excited to shoot a big lever action, and 2) return the gun with 50 rounds of perfectly hand crafted ammo.
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I’m at near max charge of AA#5 under the RCBS 45-230-CM in Starline brass. Been using CCI LPP so far, but my next outing will use Win LPP. The chamber seal is so poor that powder flies into my eyes, which isn’t good for the boy nor the FIL. I predict that the max book charge and WLP will still throw debris in my face. Also, alloy is COWW +1% Sn.
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I think these are my options for keeping powder out of people’s eyes:
1) Anneal the brass in salt. Is this safe for ammo I would give to my FIL or my son? I’ve never annealed brass.
2) Use a faster powder like 231. Is that really going to make a meaningful improvement?
3) Only resize the portion of the neck where the boolit seats. Cartridges may not fit his other .45 Colt guns, not mine.
4) Use a heavier boolit. All heavier boolits with load data are SWC, and may not feed well.
5) Load the boolits as-cast at 0.455”, as long as they still chamber. Requires a custom expander.
6) Return the gun without any ammo, and find something else to do with my son.
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I wonder what the smarter & more experienced folks have to say. Thanks in advance.

[delftshooter]

Are you sure its 45?

[FLINTNFIRE]

Anneal the brass even the starline website acknowledges the hardness of their brass , but it is usually more of a blackpowder issue .

I would not use salt , I use pretty blunt bullets in mine though not a wadcutter fan I have used the semi wadcutters , though with promo or red dot and no annealing I have had no blowback issues in my Ubertis , I will admit to not shooting the 1873 newly made Winchester yet , bullets I like are the 255rf lee and a colt carbine MP that has to be seated right to function .

I am shooting a hard range scrap bullet unsized and powder coated as it chambers fine , and it chambers in all my revolvers in 45 colt , ruger and pietta and uberti and in the 2 uberti 1873 rifles along with rossi 92 carbines .

[Baltimoreed]

If you really want a good seal on a 45 colt lever gun [for black powder] you will need to start with thinner 44-40 brass and reload it like it was 45colt brass. But theres no need to do all that. I load 45colt/ 45schofield cowboy loads for 1894 marlins and 1873 ubertis and have no gas issues except sooted up brass that a couple hours in my tumbler makes shiny like new. Why are you using .455 bullets, use .452 in a modern 45colt. I use .454 in my .455 webleys. That might be part of your problem. I like Clays or Red Dot for powder. Build loads that are comfortable to shoot. I use 200-255 gr bullets that are round nose flat point but 255 gr swc feed fine in my guns. Theres no need to anneal pistol brass. Btw, always wear shooting glasses and hearing protection. The 45colt is not a hard cartridge to reload.
I will add that you might have a headspace issue with your new rifle so I would invest in a box of factory ammo to see if they spit back at you. Also a good cleaning especially for lead in the barrel. Your oversized 455s could have left some lead there. Keep us posted.

[skeettx]

Take a 45 Colt case and full length size it
Then bell the brass
Then chamber the un-primed brass into the rifle
Measure the diameter the chamber formed the case to
Measure the inside diameter at the mouth
Now load the ammo using bullets ALMOST to the inside diameter
I would say .454 or .455
Report back please

https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/77302

And

I would load with Unique

[dverna]

Make sure you have a good crimp. That will help get pressure up. I had two 1873’s and have never experienced blow back like you describe.

I would make a chamber cast and see what that tells. Something is amiss

[Nobade]

In my Marlin 45 Colt, I anneal the cases and use big bullets. It will chamber a round loaded with .457" bullets so that's what I use, cast from pretty soft lead. It shoots great and keeps the action clean.

Edit...forgot to mention, I do have a custom oversize expander plug in my dies. And I only size the part of the case holding the bullet, so they look like big 44-40 cartridges.

[justindad]

I’ll do the chamber cast. I have the metal, but never done that before.
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To clarify a few points: I am practically blind, so safety glasses are always with me (minus side shields). I am sizing the boolits to .452 now. I am sure it’s a .45 Colt.
The crimp is fairly strong. I seat the boolits to about 0.005” longer than the final OACL. I then use a Redding Profile Crimp die to crimp, which pulls the boolit in to the final position. I don’t crimp so heavy that the brass is bulging, but the length change confirms the brass is pressed against the beveled portion of the cannelure. I crimp until the case mouth is touching the end of the cannelure. This method gives a very consistent crimp & OACL. That being said, the RCBS 45-230-CM does not have a very deep cannelure, which will limit the crimp strength.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Let us know how your further experimentation turns out. I've got an 1873 Uberti in .44-40 and use Unique with no problem at all. I use the flat nosed rounded bullets--the traditional shape, and they feed as they should.

DG

[Larry Gibson]

Gas back in the face was the same problem I've had with a Rossi M92 in 45 Colt and now in my M'73 Uberti. I was initially loading with Unique using 200 and 250 gr bullets. I tried .451, .452 and .454 sized bullets which didn't solve the problem. Most factory "cowboy action" loads didn't have the pressure to obturate the cases either. I tried just sizing the cases (R-P and Starline) to the base of the seated bullet and switching to Bullseye powder. That solved the problem but then most of the loaded rounds wouldn't freely chamber in either of my SA revolvers. The problem actually stems from the fact the Carbide sizers were Sizing the cases back to their straight wall dimensions. The chambers of the rifles and the revolvers were SAAMI spec in that they were tapered. That meant the sized cases were much smaller than the tapered chambers.

I solved the problem by getting an RCBS steel sizer which sizes the cases to fit tapered chambers. I also stuck with Bullseye for the quicker time pressure curve. I lube the cleaned cases and size on a single stage press then delube the cases which are then loaded on a Dillon SDB sans the sizer. The loaded rounds [mostly with 200 RFs but lately with the 452-230-TC over Bullseye or 700X] chamber nicely in the '73 (I sold the M92) and both SAs. I get no blow back anymore with the '73.

[John Taylor]

A faster burning powder like Unique may help. I find many of the modern lever guns with oversize chambers. I believe this is done to help with feeding. The 1873 should not have a feeding problem but the 1892 with strait walled cases can have a problem. Annealing the case is not hard, use a propane torch and heat the neck till it turns red and drop it in water. If your chamber is oversized the brass will not last long, it will have splits from over working it.

[smkummer]

Larry beat me to it. You can do the same by partially resizing the case. Maybe just run the sizer deep enough for where the bullet will seat. I’m using fast powders ( 700x) for 45 colt cowboy loads which are reduced ( 4.9 grains) with Lee’s 200 RF cast bullet. Your AA5 is on par with unique which does need to be close to max. to seal the case. A fellow cowboy shooter used to load 6.0 grains unique with either a 230 or 250 grain bullet and his cases were really sooty, too low pressure .

I used to only partly resize all my 45 colt until I got some rifles in that caliber and the ammo didn’t sometimes chamber easily. Right now my cowboy brass is WW and I might change to RP as it might be a tad thinner. Starline boasts its 45 colt can handle magnum pressures which isn’t what I want. Good chance the WW and RP can also but like we all want is the brass to seal the chambers at normal pressures. Oh, I am sizing all my 45 colt lead bullets to .454. I think the fatter bullet helps a little. My 9 grain unique charge with Lyman 454190 bullet expands the case well and since sized to 454, have enough neck tension to work in my 2 lever guns ( Uberti/Colt/Burgess replica and a win. 94 AE in 45 colt). My 4.9 grain 700X load with a 200 grain bullet ( sized .453-.454) is a tad sooty as I am full length sizing for cowboy matches. I cant drop that powder charge any more as primers start backing out in my Colt single actions.

To recap, if I were you, just partially resize and report back. That ammo may fit your other guns still. Hope this helps.

[TGM]

For my Rossi 45 colt I load a 255 grain bullet over 6.2 grains of 231 or HP38 and have no problems with blow back and my brass is not sooty.

TGM

[sledman]

For my Rossi 45 colt I load a 255 grain bullet over 6.2 grains of 231 or HP38 and have no problems with blow back and my brass is not sooty.

TGM

Is your rifle newer production?

[Gunlaker]

I had a JM Marlin 1894 that did that. I'm a lefty so it would sometimes spit powder into my face. Kind of annoying so I sold it. The load was an RCBS 250gr FN with 8gr Unique.

The only way it sealed 100% was to use black powder. It actually shot a little better too.

Chris.

[Baltimoreed]

I had a .45colt Rossi copy of the Colt Lightning pump rifle that spit. Sent it to whoever sold it here, maybe interarms and they sent me another that spit so I sold that one.
The chamber on my 1894 Marlin is bulgy. You can plainly see it in the fired brass but the rifle doesn’t spit or split the cases. Been shooting it for almost 30 years. They resize fine in a rcbs carbide die.

[Gray Fox]

My cowboy load for over 25 years has been 6.5 grains of 231 with the Lee 255 RNFP cast of WW sized to .452 loaded in Starline .45 Colt brass. It's been shot in Rossi '92 rifle and carbine (both at least 25 years old), .45 Colt Blackhawks and Vaqueros. I'm just going to try the load in a pair of Uberti Schofields and an Uberti Russian. I usually have some soot on the brass, but it comes right off in my tumbler with walnut media. I have had no problems with powder spitting from any firearm. GF

[jimb16]

I use Win 231 or Unique in my 1873 carbine and pistols. I've never had any problem with blowback. I use a 265 gr. RNFP in both and load fairly warm. I PC my bullets and use a moderate crimp on them. I use a mix of brass so that doesn't seem to make any difference. My bullets are home cast COWW lead sized to .454. The dies I use are standard steel dies from RCBS. and I full length size. BTW, these are my whitetail deer loads. Out of the carbine they clock at 1050 and 1100 fps respectively. The cases always seem to expand well to seal the chambers. Hope this helps. I should mention that the revolver and carbine are both Ubertis.

[justindad]

I made some 230 grain boolit loads with a starting charge of W231 & WLP primers. I’ll work that up and see if I find success. Fortunately, I have some old reloads with 255 grain commercial lead bullets with 8.0 grains of Unique & some others in once fired Winchester brass - we’ll see how that goes. I have a feeling that an RCBS 45-270-SAA mold and a steel sizing die (Redding is the only mfg for that right now) will be in my mailbox in a week or two.
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I cleaned the rifle real good for a chamber cast. I looked at the action and thought to myself: “this ain’t my gun and I’ve never done this before.” I’m going to hold on the chamber cast until I really need to. Well, the cleaning included polishing the stocks so at least she’s shiny.

[justindad]

Today I shot the RCBS 45-230-CM, sized .452”, Starline brass, WLP primer, 11.4 grains of AA#5 (1,178 fps & 14 SD from the rifle, and 800 fps & 33 SD from the 4.75” Uberti). I did not get powder in my face. The outside of the case was half clean (picture at the bottom of this post), which is a significant improvement compared to my last set of 11.2 gr AA#5 with CCI LPP (1,064 fps & 47 SD from the rifle). I know the increased powder charge helped, but I suspect the primer change was the most significant factor. The poor seal was costing me about 100 fps. I’m going to work up to the max book charge for my next outing.
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7.4 grains of Unique, WLP, and commercial 255 grain SWC put powder in my eyes. So did the starting charge of W231 with CCI LPP. I bet both of these would get a good deal with WLP and max charges.
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I saw some Titegroup at Academy Sports, so I grabbed a pound. I’m going to see how light I can go with that powder in Winchester brass while getting a good seal. The recoil difference is obvious between AA#5 & W231, so I will develop a light load and a fun load. I have no hope for AA#5 giving good performance in the pistol, but that’s fine.
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[doc1876]

All straight wall cases will have some sort of flashback. That's why I Winchester never made one in a 45 Colt.