Antique S&W .44 Sight Regulation ( I NEED THE NERDS!)

[Bigslug]

I recently scored a nice 6.5" 2nd Model .44 Hand Ejector from 1921, and am about to start on the loading process.

I know the "classic" .44 Special loading to be 246 grains at 755 fps. I'll be working with 255 grains and will be doctoring up and down to get the load to hit to the fixed sights.

Does anybody know what the actual factory practice was for dialing these in back in the day? I did some fiddling around with the rough ballistics on Federal's online calculator. Logically, going for an impact about 1.5-2" high at 25 yards with a 50 yard zero makes a lot of sense - at least at first glance - but knowing the build process would clue me in on what to expect and interpret what happens when I start pulling the trigger.

I'll suss it out on my own ultimately, but I'd appreciate any time-savers you can drop.

:drinks:

[rintinglen]

Try 5.0 grains of Red Dot with your 255 grainer to start. That or 6.2 grains of Unique should be pretty close.

I have read that back in the day, Colt had people whose job it was to shoot their revolvers and then return any that were off the mark to be adjusted by skilled technicians, who would put the gun in a special fixture and give it a "whap" with a 2 pound lead bar. This would flex the frame and barrel into closer alignment. It would be retested, and if it passed, it would be cleaned and sent out for shipment. I presume S&W had a similar practice.

[Texas by God]

Nice revolver!
I see that it has the scalloped cylinder; does it have the flame relief cut on the underside of the top strap or a factory butt swivel?
Your picture reminded me of one S&W .44 Special that I had long ago- and I remembered those features.
I’m not sure if mine was a First model or Second Model Hand Ejector, but it wasn’t a Triple Lock.


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[Bigslug]

Rintinglen: Propellant is going to be Titegroup. Already running it in another Special with adjustable sights. Gonna regulate the load for this one, and click in the other gun for whatever load it ends up with.

TBG: Flame cutout - yes. Reproduction lanyard ring standing by for the arrival of a correct (ish) set of reproduction grips. Gun is built on a WWI over-run frame with a little A.E.F. eagle that didn't get to become an M1917 because the game got called on account of a failing German economy.:mrgreen: Triple Lock was the First Model, so you almost certainly had a Second.

[Texas by God]

Thanks for that info. Mine was shooter grade; the barrel had been cut to 4” and my brother had it Armaloyed before I got it from him.
Of course I miss it; it shot a 240 gr Lee SWC over 6 grs of Unique right there with those tiny sights!


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[rintinglen]

At a guess, I'd try 4.5 grains of Titegroup to start, but I have never used Titegroup in a 44 Special. That tiny charge could be doubled or even tripled without being too obvious. I like Red Dot and Unique because they are "fluffier." It makes a double charge more obvious. Also, these two powders have given me the best accuracy. I have tried 5.5 grains of 231 but I don't remember much about it.

If you have some, power pistol is supposed to be good, 7.2 -7.8 grains. Brian Pearce gives it two thumbs up.

Back in the late 70's, I had a similar Hand Ejector, only it was nickel plated (in spots) and pretty badly worn. I did not get very good accuracy and the 6 1/2" barrel was not very handy, so it went down the road.

[Bigslug]

Thanks, but Titegroup is already working for us in another .44, so we're adjusting what we have.

Not looking for load data. The main question is if anyone knows what the factory sight-in process was in terms of distance, point of impact, etc...? The assumption is the factory would have been zeroing the guns with a standardized ammo and process. The goal is to use that same process in load development, if possible.

[Outpost75]

WW2-era targeting process for the Victory S&W was to shoot off sandbags at 20 yards taking a 6:00 hold at a 2-inch diameter aiming point. A 3-inch circle was drawn around the aiming point tangent at 6:00. Five out of six shots had to strike within the 3-inch circle.

When I was at Ruger when targeting .380 Rimmed revolvers for the India order the same targeting procedure was used scaled in proportion to 25 yards, using a 2-1/2" aiming point and nominal 4-inch circle.

I expect that in that era the same procedure using an aim point scaled to the British Army standard of one inch per ten yards was used for all service revolvers.

To approximate factory velocity in the .44 Special for older S&W Hand Ejectors I load Accurate 43-240F cast 1 to 30 tin-lead, sized .432 with 4.5 grains of Bullseye. This is mild, accurate and shoots to the sights.

321403

I load 4 grains of Bullseye in the .44 Russian, 6 grains in the .44-40 and 7 grains in the .44 Magnum for "Cowboy" loads.

[Bigslug]

Outpost75 to the rescue! I figured I could count on you.

I designed the Accurate 43-255D with the intent to be a tumble lube LBT-LFN and be my "One .44 to Rule Them All" bullet. NOE wasn't running Ranch Dogs at the time, so here I am. I have others, of course, but was going for All Purpose + Mass Production.

And the forum keeps saying my photos are "exceeding my quota" Grrrr...

[Outpost75]

I periodically delete photos from my older posts to avoid the "exceeding quota" issue.

[Bigslug]

Didn't even know it WAS an issue. Took me 11 years to get to this point. . .

[hoodat]

I periodically delete photos from my older posts to avoid the "exceeding quota" issue.

Could this be the reason I can no longer post pics?? Imma have to look into this, and any help would be welcome. jd

[Bigslug]

It's a pretty obnoxious trait of the forum if that is indeed the case. . .

I could go back into the "More Cadet Talk" thread and pull numerous pics without a lot of damage done, but. . .

My pic-heavy Chassepot ammo thread's potentially a useful tool for anyone following that bit of 1860's tech. . .

And we did a lot of good science on the .38/200 Webley thread. . .

Essentially, many of us have contributed a lot of hard-won info to this archive - - and now I'm learning that in order to keep contributing to the archive, we have to dismantle the older bits???

I don't suppose the Library of Congress has a similar self-destruct button? [smilie=b:

[Bigslug]

Outpost,

Looks like it's behaving about like intended. Gotta get the ability to attach pics back, but I have the 43-255D grouping 1 to 3 inches high at 25 yards when fired in the ballpark of 600 fps. Thanks again! :drinks: