Lyman 358318 for Marlin 336 35 Rem?

[Petander]

I bought this mold in 2001, thinking 35 Whelen. I even got dies and made Whelen ammo from 30-06 brass but never got the actual rifle done.

Now, fast forward 20+ years,I was recently offered a 336 plus 200 brass for a silly low price. I still have this mold and 1000 gas checks (plus many lighter plain base .358 molds, incl. Lyman 358460).

35 Rem ammo is impossible to find here in Finland and probably will be so. Total lead ban may be coming. A 35 Rem lever gun will be obsolete and of no value here soon. But I like Marlins and this would be a pure fun range rifle with light, even subsonic loads. A trip to the past if you like.

So my question is:

Will this bullet work or is it too long? Mine drops 230 grains, I read everywhere that this should be 250...?

Thank you for reading.

https://i.postimg.cc/9QnVNQvK/IMG-20231223-185607-656-3.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/RF5fcXFs/IMG-20231223-182517-082-2.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/ry0xwfGt/Resized-20231222-163134-4.jpg

[imashooter2]

Marlin 336s in .35 REM are a 1:16 twist rate. You probably can’t stabilize the boolit even if you get it to chamber. In Finland, I would guess prices from US vendors would be ruinous, even if you could get them to ship. Perhaps MP Molds in Slovenia would be an option that works? They offer a clone of the RCBS 35-200-FN which is highly regarded for use in the .35 REM.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-358-200-rcbs-clone-solid-mold-multi-choice/

[Petander]

Thank you for your reply, Iamashooter2.

MP is good stuff,I have a dozen molds from them.

But in this case,my existing mold should justify the gun purchase. :)

I also have this nice revolver mold, 358460. 195 grns. It might work for 1000 fps gallery loads in 35 Rem? I see some people have hunted whitetails with 358460.

Looks like I'll try these both and see. I like to cast with these little "vintage" molds, yes modern multi-cavity brass molds are lovely but these have another feel altogether.

https://i.postimg.cc/D0H65zw3/IMG-20231224-141915-290-2.jpg

[Petander]

Buffalo Bore makes 220 grn for 35. Obviously not a mouse load @ 2200 fps.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=638

[Petander]

I made some test bullets with both molds.

Merry Christmas!

https://i.postimg.cc/dtjgqG17/IMG-20231224-212722-651-3.jpg

[imashooter2]

Pretty! :drinks:

[Rockindaddy]

Nice looking cast boolit. Would be OK in a bolt gun or a pump with a box magazine. The only boolits I use in my Marlin 35 Rem is a flat point. The ojive on that boolit scares me. You don't need a magazine detonation.

[imashooter2]

It’s certainly no "sharper" than the Remington 200 grain Core-Lokt sold by the millions for decades. It’s problem is it’s too long.

[Petander]

It’s certainly no "sharper" than the Remington 200 grain Core-Lokt sold by the millions for decades. It’s problem is it’s too long.

How can Buffalo Bore make a 220 work? Fit and stabilize? Or is it that critical ten grains? I could make a jig for shortening the noses, making FN:s... These blunt noses don't scare me though. I seat primers deep enough.

How about the other one in the pic, 358430?

[quack1]

I can't say about feeding in a Marlin 336, but the Lyman 358430 feeds and shoots just fine in my Remington model 14. I've even killed a few deer with it, although I made a jig so I could file a flat point on it to hunt with. Probably didn't need it, the bullet has a pretty blunt point, but I just like to hunt with flat point cast bullets. My alloy was approx 50/50 COWW/pure, going around 1450fps with traditional lube. Faster might expand even better, but the plain base limits velocity. That bullet is also a good plinking bullet at around 11-1200fps using various powders. Don't know what powders you are able to get in Finland, but powders I used were Herco, red dot, 700x, Unique. All were accurate. If you have powders available with near the same burn rates, you should be good to go.

[Petander]

Thank you Quack1.

We have a good selection of our local Vihtavuori powders here. I have also made "plinkers" and subsonic rifle loads with pistol powders since the 90's.

I just played around with Quick Quack Load and RCBS 200 FN is very good for full power 35 Rem. 358430 being RN nearly same weight should feed.

https://i.postimg.cc/N0FTrqpS/IMG-20231225-193512-625-2.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/YqYXDgN8/IMG-20231225-193559-623-2.jpg

My original idea was cast 35 Rem "plinking", I have a Marlin SBL 45-70 that shoots full power (I don't enjoy re-zeroing between loads). Or maybe even suppress the 336. But now it's starting too look a nice rifle,too nice yo be modified ... just zero for "plinkers" and have fun.


-_---+++

But thinking power,a 200 grainer @ 2200 fps from a 20" barrel is not a mild load. It is moose legal here, having over 2000 J of energy @ 100 m. Like Imashooter2 suggested, MP molds copy of that 200 RCBS FN is tempting after all, being a tried and true 35 Rem design.

I need to go and check that 336 out asap. I especially need no bore surprises,will take my borecam with me.

[imashooter2]

How can Buffalo Bore make a 220 work? Fit and stabilize? Or is it that critical ten grains? I could make a jig for shortening the noses, making FN:s... These blunt noses don't scare me though. I seat primers deep enough.

How about the other one in the pic, 358430?

It isn’t weight, it’s length. As bullets get longer they need more RPM to stabilize. You can get RPM with either a faster twist or more velocity. In .35 REM with a 1:16 twist, I believe you aren’t going to be able to get enough velocity to stabilize the long boolit. Might also be an OAL problem since that long under bore size nose won’t allow deep seating.

I don’t know what bullet Buffalo uses, but they push them fast. They no doubt did a bit of work to find a combination of length and speed that works. You can try using what you have as is. Maybe I’m wrong... and you could try shortening them too. What do you have to lose?

The 358460 has the right length, my only concern would be the diameter right in front of the drive bands. My Marlin has a very short throat. I can’t chamber any boolits designed for revolver use. But again, making a dummy round to check costs nothing. Give it a try!

[Petander]

Yes I keep reading akout short 336 throats.


But again, making a dummy round to check costs nothing. Give it a try!

It's a long journey here where I live. First I need to leave an application for buying a rifle. That's 120 € and caliber specific. I managed to get appointment for that in early February.

I then get a buying permit and buy the 336 & 200 pcs brass for a total of ~ 300 €. That's not bad. I think the rifle is 100 €, brass 200 €. Then I order 35 Rem dies from overseas, most probably Canada ~ 140 € incl. taxes & shipping. Or Lee dies from Titan,they may still ship overseas... but I prefer others like RCBS.

It's all tolerable, price wise. ... BUT if it turns out that I can not use my existing molds that made me want to buy the 35 in the first place, I end up in a funny situation with an impossible to sell useless rifle in my hands. A wasted buying permit. No ammo is available here,nor brass, neither J-bullets. That's why it's so cheap.

I could then buy the MP 200 RCBS copy but the idea has turned backwards by then. Cheap multiplies into expensive.

I'm thinking of buying the 336 because I thought I may have molds for it. And the rifle looks clean. And I like Marlins. But there really are a few "but"'s.

The whole 35 idea does not make much sense but I'm not known for making sense,either. Quick Load says 2000 fps is possible with the 230 RN in question here, standard OAL. It is 1.09" long. But Quick Load can not tell how it ctimps to standard OAL or how it feeds standard OAL. Or does 2000 fps stabilize it.

[Petander]

Here is QL screen for the 358318.

https://i.postimg.cc/Pxs6Mtk5/IMG-20231225-171113-455-7.jpg

[Petander]

And this 358212 might work as a light plinker...?

I have many of the usual 358 pistol and revolver molds. This looks like a "normal" RN.

https://i.postimg.cc/HLkVYYdP/IMG-20231226-143329-470-2.jpg

[Rapier]

If you have a problem with the Lyman Mould, you could modify it if you have or have access to a lathe or milling machine. With powder coating you really can use plain base bullets. The 200 grain RCBS flat nose, plain base, iron mould, was discontinued by RCBS but clones of it are made today by Seaco, NEC and a couple others. I bought a Seaco iron mould from Buffalo Bore in October. I know Lee makes an aluminum mould copy of the bullet as well. That 200 RCBS works well in the 35 Rem lever guns.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I would certainly give that bullet a try in the .35 Rem. It may or may not stabilize, the 'rules' of stabilization are 'IT DEPENDS". Worth a try as other bullets heavier than 200 grains work just fine, like the 220gr Speer Flatpoint - probably longer than your bullet. Length is more important than weight for stabilization. There are several different ways to calculate twist, but with the .35 Rem, bullets staying point first past 300 yards are USUALLY good to go. Many internet laws/rumors are broken when people actually shoot at the range.

I have had good results with Lee Dies though Lee haters do abound. With the bullet pictured, the Lee Factory Crimp Die may provide crimping that will work. Using a case filling powder can also work to keep bullets telescoping into the case due to magazine spring pressure.

[imashooter2]

Yes I keep reading akout short 336 throats.



It's a long journey here where I live. First I need to leave an application for buying a rifle. That's 120 € and caliber specific. I managed to get appointment for that in early February.

I then get a buying permit and buy the 336 & 200 pcs brass for a total of ~ 300 €. That's not bad. I think the rifle is 100 €, brass 200 €. Then I order 35 Rem dies from overseas, most probably Canada ~ 140 € incl. taxes & shipping. Or Lee dies from Titan,they may still ship overseas... but I prefer others like RCBS.

It's all tolerable, price wise. ... BUT if it turns out that I can not use my existing molds that made me want to buy the 35 in the first place, I end up in a funny situation with an impossible to sell useless rifle in my hands. A wasted buying permit. No ammo is available here,nor brass, neither J-bullets. That's why it's so cheap.

I could then buy the MP 200 RCBS copy but the idea has turned backwards by then. Cheap multiplies into expensive.

I'm thinking of buying the 336 because I thought I may have molds for it. And the rifle looks clean. And I like Marlins. But there really are a few "but"'s.

The whole 35 idea does not make much sense but I'm not known for making sense,either. Quick Load says 2000 fps is possible with the 230 RN in question here, standard OAL. It is 1.09" long. But Quick Load can not tell how it ctimps to standard OAL or how it feeds standard OAL. Or does 2000 fps stabilize it.

That sure sounds like walk away to me.

[35 Rem]

I doubt that long bullet feeding myself. The 195 grain should feed reliably but whether or not it would chamber due to that front driving band ahead of the crimp groove is open for more doubt. I know it wouldn't in my 336. I have to trim cases .020" below min to use the Accurate bullet I shoot (36-200A) because of a much shorter front band than either of your bullets. As far as loads to hunt with a 35 Remington, I can't see loading it down. It doesn't kick hard nor is muzzle blast obnoxious so use a bullet of about 200 grains and push it to full power jacketed load level. Regarding all these unknowns you are facing, only you can decide if you want a lever action 35 Remington bad enough to do whatever it takes to get a workable mold in your hands. Sometimes though you get an urge for a gun that you can't rationalize or justify. Some of them are worth the effort anyhow purely for the satisfaction of owning it or the adventure of getting all the pieces and making it work as you envisioned it. I know I felt that way in the late 1980's when seeking the ultimate groundhog rifle and I spent over $2,000 on the gun, scope, dies, brass etc. and I wouldn't change a thing as it was worth it even if it did push my finances to the limit and took a year to round it all up.

Here in America we often forget how good we have it even in the bad times as far as availability of gun related hardware and components.

[quack1]

And this 358212 might work as a light plinker...?

I have many of the usual 358 pistol and revolver molds. This looks like a "normal" RN.

https://i.postimg.cc/HLkVYYdP/IMG-20231226-143329-470-2.jpg

Probably would work. I have a 358311 and it shoots pretty good, not quite as accurate as the 358430, but that might just be the gun. The 358311 looks similar to your 358212, only about 10gr heavier.

[Petander]

Thanks for the replies,everyone.


That sure sounds like walk away to me.

Yes in a rational sense it does.

I just happened to see that rifle, I have never seen or touched a 35 Rem gun. I do not know anyone who has or has had one. Very rare. At the same time it may be too nice to suppress it, which was my original thought as well. Pour more money without adding a dime to value...

But I've been here before with a 300 RSAUM. No ammo no brass. Still I wanted it. But I've had 200+ firearms so a couple of mistakes fit in. Oh and a pitted Winchester 94 that I firelapped an all, it still never became a cast shooter.

Oh well.

[Petander]

The plot thickens.

I had basically given up on this but I asked about the serial yesterday. It is R-prefix, meaning a 1957 rifle. And my LGS just "found" a set of Lee dies. I also found hunting bullets in Italy.

It's been dead cold winter here like -30°C all week, no driving, I still have not touched the gun. It sure did not look like 65 years old. The seller still does not believe Rxxxxx is 1957.

[Markopolo]

I just got my first 336 in 35 rem. Also a JM Marlin. It is a sweet gun… I understand load development in winter, and am praying for a weather window to get out to play!!!!

Good luck My cold brother…

[imashooter2]

The plot thickens.

I had basically given up on this but I asked about the serial yesterday. It is R-prefix, meaning a 1957 rifle. And my LGS just "found" a set of Lee dies. I also found hunting bullets in Italy.

It's been dead cold winter here like -30°C all week, no driving, I still have not touched the gun. It sure did not look like 65 years old. The seller still does not believe Rxxxxx is 1957.

With the availability of ammunition there, it has probably been shot little and loved a lot.

[MT Gianni]

My marlin lever was made in 1951. It chambers and loads the RCBS 250 fp, a few of which I bought with the rifle. It also shoots the Saeco 352, a 245 gr bullet with good accuracy. I would certainly try the Lyman bullet and see how it does. The RCBS 200 fp is the classic cast for this caliber but the Lee copy of it does ok also.

[Petander]

I was going to drive to the shop today,called first. My friend is not working this week so checking the 336 is delayed again.

I'll show you a funny detail of my Aug 2017 made Remlin SBL. Someone had one job. :)

https://i.postimg.cc/yNPcR4ym/IMG-20240110-140643-291-3.jpg

[Petander]

Got a box of 180 Speers from Central Europe today.

I guess this is a start, now I can at least make dummies to test the rifle action. Dies are in the shop but at least they exist.

https://i.postimg.cc/5ykDHN4y/IMG-20240112-162925-138-2.jpg

[Petander]

Still so cold weather, ( -25°C), I don't want to punish my car battery. So I have not handled the gun yet.

Brass seems unobtainum and it's bothering me. The rifle comes with 200+ once fired Federal brass, a Reitz 2-7x32 scope with mounts and a new Lee three die set. Asking 400 € for it all so not much for the rifle itself. Like 100 € or so.

But I can use that brass up in a few range trips, it may last 3-5 times reloading... what then? Even if by some miracle Hornady 35 Rem Leverevolution ammo became available here, it would cost double the USA price... I see it costs $ 80 / 20 box over there.

I don't know what to do.

[quack1]

35 Rem. brass can be made from 308, although it takes a good bit of fiddling around. I tried it once, just to see if I could do it, and the reformed brass worked OK. There was a guy on here that made it from 308 and sold it, but I think he died. A site search should turn up some information. Also, you could get more than 3-5 reloads on that brass. I anneal necks every 3-4 reloads and can't remember ever throwing any away for neck cracks. I haven't kept track of how many times the brass has been reloaded, but am sure it's way more than 3-5 times.
You mentioned Hornady Leverevolution ammo, I'm pretty sure Leverevolution brass is shorter than standard brass. I believe it's something to do with the shape of the rubber tipped bullet. Something to keep in mind if you want to reload that brass.
With your explanation of the process you have to go through to buy a gun, I'd be uncertain about buying it, too.

[imashooter2]

Grumpa was the gentleman. He has a PDF of his process on the board somewhere.

[imashooter2]

Here’s the thread. It is a chore, but better than not having any.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276255-308-to-35-Rem-done-my-way

[danmat]

Can brass be shipped from the states to Finland? If so once fired brass shows up here off and on.

[quack1]

[QUOTE=imashooter2;5674751]Grumpa was the gentleman.
Thank you, could not remember his name.

[JDL]

Petander, The Lyman 358156 is very accurate from my .358 Winchester and should work great in your .35 Remington if the simi wadcutter will feed.

[PhilC]

A genuine RCBS 35-200-FN goes for crazy money these days if you can find a nice one. I chose MP's clone in 4 cavity brass plain base for just a smidgeon more and it rains boolits.

[cwlongshot]

I looked for the '318 or a long time before finding one.

Its a dandy bullet. Mine drops closer to 250 with COWW.

Its a dandy shooter as well. I have shot in most of my 35's from the Maxi up and it shoots in all. 1:16 can and does stabulize most bullets of this length. I can stabulize the 009 and Accurate 36-270 just fine too.

I like ta dedicate a bullet to a caliber so this one gets shot mostly in the Whelen and 358 NM.

I like my RCBS 200 until I picked up MP's hp copy then the 220g Version. Love those two molds!! My 220g is great in my 358 Win with RL7.

That 36-270c was bought because the '009 that I like so much has too fat a nose for my use. Its proven a good one too. Sized .356 its been fun @ subsonic speeds in my 350Legend!!!