Questions for a Squirrel hunting rifle

[Spencer_Murphy]

I would like to get a Centerfire Squirrel Hunting Rifle. For years .22 Short and .22LR have done me well but I want to use a Centerfire cartridge. I have a few candidates and was wondering which would be best. A local gun shop has a few rifles in .25-20 WCF they are a Savage Sporter , Remington Model 25 and a Savage 219. My friend has a Martini Cadet in .32-20WCF that he no longer wants and has 100 pcs of empty brass and 40rnds of 100gr Winchester factory ammo. I have a Martini Cadet in .357 Magnum that I was thinking about loading with .38 Short Colt and a low grain bullet. Another gunshop local to me also has a Martini Cadet in .17 Remington but there isn't a price listed for it yet in their shop, the barrel has no sights either and would either need to be drilled and tapped for a Scope or have dovetails cut for sights. If anyone wants to throw in their two cents by all means do. Most I have thought up so far was the whole .38 Short Colt for Squirrels. If anyone has better caliber suggestions please share them. Personally I like Single Shot rifles but I dont mind repeating rifles as long as the are manually actuated. I dont like Semi- Automatics they're not my forte.

[Texas by God]

Of those you mentioned, the Cadet in 32-20 WITH brass and ammo sounds good.
25-20 brass is hard to find nowadays.
BUT…. Try the Lee 105swc in your .357 with .38 Special loads and you may find your squirrel gun in front of you.
I love hunting squirrels with centerfire rifles and pistols( with squirrel size ammo).


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[M-Tecs]

For applications like that I prefer rounds that minimize ricochets.

[405grain]

The 17 Remington is a varmint cartridge made from necking down the 223 to 17 caliber. It is way too powerful for use as a tree squirrel gun. A 148 grain wadcutter in mild 357 target loads might work well. Almost any centerfire is going to be powerful enough that you should aim for the head to minimize meat damage.

[Nobade]

I used to like hollow base wadcutters in the 357 for squirrels. Loaded to very low velocity like maybe 500 fps, they kill well and don't travel far if you miss. Plus very quiet. As mentioned, 25-20 brass is about impossible to get right now.

[BobT]

From your list my first pick would be the Savage 219 followed by the Martini in .32-20. The .25-20 brass can be made from .32-20 by simply running it into the .25-20 seater with the stem removed and then through the full length sizer. What I would probably do would be find a Thompson Center Contender carbine in .22 Hornet or have a barrel made in .22 Squirrel and go to town!

[Jedman]

If you are considering the martini cadet ask your friend what bullet he is using - if he handloads.
They were 310 cadets that were rechambered and have a groove dia. that varies from .318 to .320+ so 32-20 loads with .312 bullets will usually shoot terrible.
There are heeled bullet molds made for these that work but will not chamber in a standard 32-20 chamber. If you can get the Savage 219 without paying crazy money those are hard to find in 32-20 and are a desirable rifle .
A martini in 17 Rem. may be problems with ejection because of the rimless case. There was a workable rimless ejector that was custom made but if you’re interested in that rifle check that out well. I think the larger slower bullets would be better for squirrels.
Jedman

[35 Rem]

The 17 Remington would make a terrible squirrel cartridge. Full power loads would leave nothing but fur and blood and I can't imagine trying to come up with a workable castg reduced load. I have a heavy barrel Remington 700 in 17 Remington and I don't even like loading for it because the bullets are so tiny they are hard to pick up and set on the case mouths. :)

I have a 32-20 that I have always loaded to "squirrel gun" levels using Unique and the Lyman 311008 bullet (115gr flat point). I get about 1,280 ft/sec. It drops a squirrel much better than a 22LR - no more limb clingers - but doesn't tear them up much more at all.

[besk]

How would a round ball work in the 357 mag?

[Texas by God]

How would a round ball work in the 357 mag?

Just like a .36 caliber muzzleloader.
Just fine.


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[pworley1]

222 Remington and 223 Remington cast loads can be slowed to sub-sonic velocities.

[Spencer_Murphy]

If you are considering the martini cadet ask your friend what bullet he is using - if he handloads.
They were 310 cadets that were rechambered and have a groove dia. that varies from .318 to .320+ so 32-20 loads with .312 bullets will usually shoot terrible.
There are heeled bullet molds made for these that work but will not chamber in a standard 32-20 chamber. If you can get the Savage 219 without paying crazy money those are hard to find in 32-20 and are a desirable rifle .
A martini in 17 Rem. may be problems with ejection because of the rimless case. There was a workable rimless ejector that was custom made but if you’re interested in that rifle check that out well. I think the larger slower bullets would be better for squirrels.
Jedman

the Savage 219 in in .25-20WCF and the 17 REM Martini has a custom rimless extractor installed

[Spencer_Murphy]

I am seeing a lot of praise for the .32-20 would a 71gr bullet be too small ? I found a mould for sale that casts a 71gr round in .312 and .318 diameter. or is it better to use a larger 100 to 125gr bullet ?

[Spencer_Murphy]

For applications like that I prefer rounds that minimize ricochets.

which rounds would those be ?

[Finster101]

I would have to go with the .357 that you already have.

[Texas by God]

I’ve used round ball loads in several of my rifles for squirrels- the 30-40 Krag included.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/9d872337cfc0d91eca1e2652a05a4bf2.jpeg
It works on raccoons as well.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/d193b99805b52f27a64b0a04229df035.jpg


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[jdgabbard]

The Martini Cadet in 357 is probably the most versatile. I'm kind of envious. I have a few Martinis, but in .303 - one of which is an Afghan Royal Guard rifle (1921 Afghan Manufactured on Belgian Contract Tooling as I understand it) in pretty decent condition. Another is a Khyber Pass Clone with a pistol grip and a 4"ish barrel. But none of them are Cadets....

Something I recently did was use an 18" chamber adapter for a 20ga to convert a H&R Topper to 7.62x25. With some free sights from a member epoxied on I have high hopes for it's service. I haven't been able to make it out to the range to test it yet due to a back injury, then getting Covid. But if it'll shoot minute of squirrel's head at 15-50 yards that is good enough for me.

If it were me, I'd take the Martini in 357. That's a good gun.

[Black Beard]

I shoot 310 cadet. They are very accurate and make a great subsonic calibre
The bore on mine is about .321/322. I use the RCBS 310 cadet bullet which I size to .323.
They are great guns but a 32-20 conversion would probably need a long lead in at about .323 to let you load it with a heeled bullet.

[Ajohns]

My Martini Cadet is a rook rifle in the old 380 Long
Basically a 38 Long Colt case trimmed a bit, using its old heeled bullet. Shoots excellent, very quiet.
Takes .375 to .380 diameter, 125 to 150gr. weight, so it's not as common as .357dia, but can be bought online or mold your own.
Very easy on powder

[John Taylor]

I made my cadet in 32 S&W long. Plenty of power for taking squirrels, no recoil and not much noise. Years ago I tried wax bullets in 357 cases, using 209 primers only. Don't know how accurate they would be at longer ranges but at close range they would go through 1/2" sheet rock ( don't ask).

[Thundarstick]

It's against regulations to hunt small game with any and all center fire cartridges here. Best check your game laws before taking to the woods with any centerfire no matter how anemic it is. I'd personally rather be hit with a falling 40 gr slug than a 100gr plus slug!

[Shawlerbrook]

22 Hornet ?

[john.k]

Seeing as a primer costs the same as a 22LR ,and the 22 is a lot easier to find ,shooting squirells with anything else doesnt make much sense.

[Texas by God]

Seeing as a primer costs the same as a 22LR ,and the 22 is a lot easier to find ,shooting squirells with anything else doesnt make much sense.

It might not make sense to you, but it gives me a sense of accomplishment to use MY loads to hunt.
I grew up shooting squirrels in 150 acres of pecan trees with .22s and shotguns. No closed season, no bag limit.
You might say that I got bored of the .22 rimfire for squirrels.


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[dverna]

Seeing as a primer costs the same as a 22LR ,and the 22 is a lot easier to find ,shooting squirells with anything else doesnt make much sense.

I agree with you.

[jdsingleshot]

Centerfires off limits for squirrels here in KY too. I like my two .25-20s for other small game. I make cases from .32-20 by starting the neck reduction with a simple die I made from a bolt, followed by the standard sizing die. So far it's worked every time.

[Te Hopo]

I'd go with the Martini .357 you already have.
My .357 is a Rossi single shot, and I love the ability to shoot 900fps 125gr FPs for small game and then 180XTPs to drop pigs and deer.
It was bought on a whim and surprisingly it's my most used rifle for hunting now, I often leave my rimfires and .223 at home now.

Funny thing, here in New Zealand a rimfire and .22Hornet is banned on public land to limit the poaching of native birds so a low powered centerfire makes sense here

[Rapier]

The 231 / HP-38 loads for the 38 Spl work the same in a 357 mag case as 231 does not work differently when used in either cartridge case length. A 110 or 125 SWC plain base cast would be the ticket. In the load testing I have done to 100 yards, the groups and crono readings were close enough to be interchangeable using the same loads with two cases separated then mixed.

[Finster101]

As noted earlier, the Lee 358-105 would be an excellent choice of bullet for this.

[Fishoot]

Notes from previous contributors mentioned Martini cadet rifles. I have become more than fond of them. I have them in .22lr 22 hornet, 218 Bee, 218 Mashburn Bee and the latest one in 32H&R Mag. All but the last have variable scopes. For squirrel shooting the various 22 calibers would be best I suppose. The one in the pictures was barreled with a new Marlin .32 caliber barrel. 405Grain clued me into that barrel deal and loaned me his .32H&R reamer. The receiver and sight were found on auction sites. I refinished a cadet stock I had from another project rifle. The fore end was made from wood savaged from unusable blanks bought years ago. The receiver was color cased with a mix of cow, deer and wood char. I made the char while it was out of stock at Brownell's. I may not need their char now... I bushed the firing pin hole and reduced the pin diameter with advice from John Taylor. This rifle would be a challenge for older eyes (like mine) but it should be fun; and might be good medicine for ground squirrels that pop out of their holes for a close-up look at me.

[john.k]

Id advise against color case on a Martini cadet .........these guns are made of a high carbon steel ,heat treated ,and quenching them to obtain the case colors is going to make the steel extremely hard and probably britlle from grain growth at the prolonged high temp .........One of the sub critical chemical coloring processes used by the Italians will probably be OK.

[Fishoot]

Id advise against color case on a Martini cadet .........these guns are made of a high carbon steel ,heat treated ,and quenching them to obtain the case colors is going to make the steel extremely hard and probably britlle from grain growth at the prolonged high temp .........One of the sub critical chemical coloring processes used by the Italians will probably be OK.

Thanks for the warning John.k. I looked for information on the cadet and color case hardening. I had actually done a little research before doing the work on the rifle in the post. I normalize the receivers taken from the quench at 375 degrees F. to take some of the stress from the metal. There are numerous references on the web concerning color case hardened martini cadets. I have accumulated 7 links to references to color cased cadets. There is no mention of failures to the receivers. I may ask the authors of those if they have experienced issues by color casing a cadet. I have another martini I color cased but its in one of the .22 centerfires (don't remember which caliber right now). Nonetheless, I will probably not color case the Model 12/15 I had planned to convert to .17 Fireball. I don't want to flirt with exploding firearms!

[john.k]

Im not suggesting the reciever might fail .......they are immensely strong........just the extremely annoying discovery of a hardening crack after the process...........The Italian replica makers have a subcritical colouring process ,which does not cause problems with the steel they use (4140?) ......Drawing the hardness after quench is good practice ,but I was under the impression that reheating ruined the colour effect.

[Fishoot]

john.k, Tempering at 375 to 400 degrees does not affect the colors. Not sure at what temperature that might happen but no problems so far.

[ulav8r]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/47/2a/94/472a942f49e36192c2526e3c09b46cb5.jpg

According to that chart a color change starts at about 410 degrees.