Original Winchester in 348 wcf vs 348 Ackley Improved?

[Bleachedtech903]

I have seen original antique Winchester 1886's, chambered in 348 wcf using model 71 barrels. I know factory loads are not safe, possiy stretching the action after repeated use, or worse. So my first question, can you load to 33 wcf velocities and pressures, around 2100-2200 fps with 200gr bullets. I say this since many antique 1886's were sent back to be rechambered in 33 wcf.
My other question, that is pretty out there. Could you rechamber to 348 ackley improved, and possibly decrease bolt thrust, and hit the factory 348 win velocities while still being "safe".

[challenger_i]

Odd you should mention the 348 in an 1886... Just this morning, I found a re-barreled 1886 in 348 AI for sale. Supposedly, the action dated to 1888. My first thought was on the matter of that hot of a cartridge in an older black powder receiver. The ad did show a partial page (looked like from P.O. Ackley's book) on the 348 Ackley Improved.
It might just be the "Old Woman" in me, but it sure seems like the 348 would be over-working the rifle somewhat.

[Bleachedtech903]

I thought the same. But the other part of me wonders how much of a difference the AI does for bolt thrust in this case. Though, if I ever did get one, I would just use 33 wcf load data, rather than tangling with a potential bad day.

[HWooldridge]

The 71 Winchester is basically an 1886 built for the .348 cartridge. I’d say just buy a 71 if you want a .348 in any flavor.

[Eddie Southgate]

I don't think that factory pressure .348 would harm an 1886 any more than it would a model 71. As far as chambering an older 1886 to .33 Winchester , the only change they made when they (Winchester) started doing them in the .33 was upgraded to a smokeless powder barrel steel.

[Bigslug]

I'm not sure why one would disable a functioning 71 to move its barrel onto an '86, but OK. . .

As I recall, P.O. Ackley's proof-of-concept test for his sharp shoulder/blown-out case walls idea was to test fire a .30-30 AI from a bench fixture in a 94 Winchester from which the vertical locking block had been removed. The result was that bolt thrust did not occur at a level that would move the bolt backward.

So yes, the AI conversion should reduce bolt thrust to a point where standard .348 performance could be retained, but when there are .35 Rem and .45-70 Marlins, as well as modern repro 71's to be had for the short range thumper role , to say nothing of the market value of an unmolested examples of the 1886 , one has to seriously ponder the "why".

[John Taylor]

The model 71 has a slant to the locking lugs so the action will be easier to open with the higher pressure of the 348. I worked on a modern 86 takedown and made three extra barrels for it. One of the barrels was 348. The customer sent some Buffalo bore ammo in 348 which jammed the action. I found some Winchester 348 and the rifle had no problem with it. Buffalo bore ammo is loaded hot. Winchester started using Nickel Steel barrels in 1895 for smokeless powder. The 1894 Winchester was made in 38-55 and 32-40 the first year because the nickel steel was not ready yet.

[indian joe]

I don't think that factory pressure .348 would harm an 1886 any more than it would a model 71. As far as chambering an older 1886 to .33 Winchester , the only change they made when they (Winchester) started doing them in the .33 was upgraded to a smokeless powder barrel steel.

you dont think steel quality and manufacturing process improved from 1890 till 1930 ???????

[indian joe]

I'm not sure why one would disable a functioning 71 to move its barrel onto an '86, but OK. . .

proly wanted a .450 or .500 alaskan or maybe he watched those 50/110 videos -- maybe he has a buddy thats a shoulder surgeon and needs the business.

As I recall, P.O. Ackley's proof-of-concept test for his sharp shoulder/blown-out case walls idea was to test fire a .30-30 AI from a bench fixture in a 94 Winchester from which the vertical locking block had been removed. The result was that bolt thrust did not occur at a level that would move the bolt backward.

So yes, the AI conversion should reduce bolt thrust to a point where standard .348 performance could be retained, but when there are .35 Rem and .45-70 Marlins, as well as modern repro 71's to be had for the short range thumper role , to say nothing of the market value of an unmolested examples of the 1886 , one has to seriously ponder the "why".

why always comes down to cuz I want to and I got /can get the money to do it

[Eddie Southgate]

you dont think steel quality and manufacturing process improved from 1890 till 1930 ???????

Not much , other than the better steel in the barrel. Winchester is said to have changed out some of the '86's to .348 using factory '71 barrels on customer supplied guns. If that is so then they must have thought the "86 could handle the .348 .

[Winger Ed.]

you dont think steel quality and manufacturing process improved from 1890 till 1930 ???????

Not really.
'The good stuff' has been available for a long, long time.
However; then, as now it was more a question of people willing to pay for it, or finding a supplier.

Back in the old days, Henry Ford wanted a certain quality of steel for his car's gears,
and American producers weren't willing to make it.
So he sourced them from England.

[indian joe]

Not really.
'The good stuff' has been available for a long, long time.
However; then, as now it was more a question of people willing to pay for it, or finding a supplier.

Back in the old days, Henry Ford wanted a certain quality of steel for his car's gears,
and American producers weren't willing to make it.
So he sourced them from England.

Proly shoulda phrased that differently
I have worked on a couple original '73's and some early 92's - the steel in those things is as soft as butter. never had an original 86 but have a Browning 71 ---BIG difference
YES I realise there a difference between hardness and toughness

The only drawback of Ackley chamber in a lever gun is some of em sometimes dont feed as nice as the original case - from what I have seen (videos) of the 348 AI that does not seem to be a worry

Ackley I always heard touted as equal velocity with less pressure = using a tad more (maybe a tad slower) powder...............................