Back to casting after 34 year hiatus

[Apple Man]

Howdy guys, newbie to the forum.:drinks:

Way back when I was casting in the 80's we had wheel weights that were a known commodity, dead soft lead and linotype.

Now after reading WW have changed composition and have problems with zinc.

I used to be a big wheel gun man, and have a S&W model 19 with 28,000 rounds through it. Only know how many because of how many cartons of primers I went through. Shot 357 mags and 44 special and 44 mags. I am very well aware of obturation and matching brinnel hardness to the chamber pressure being run. My cast bullets always worked well.

My old stand by was 9#s of WW and a pound of linotype for up to +P loads and 60/40 for full bore mags and it served me well.

Now however I am now loading for 1911 45 ACP and 40 S&W in semi autos and this is unfamiliar territory.

So what to use for alloy?

I have half a ton of linotype that has been stashed all these years. I can get soft lead for next to nothing and WW of unknown vintage for about the same $$.

Since I have more linotype than I'll ever use, just wondering if linotype cut with soft lead would be the way to go? I always liked how linotype poured and filled out molds.

What are your favorite blends gentlemen?

This was the other day, haven't got the correct parts to get the Dillion 550 going but they are on the way.321011

[GlocksareGood]

1/2 COWW and 1/2 dead soft lead. I use cable or water water pipe lead for dead soft. Got tons. Add in enough tin to get 1-1.5%. use that for all almost all pistol bullets.

[Winger Ed.]

Welcome home.

I cast for .45ACP & .38 Spec. with just enough Tin & 'goodies' to get a good flow & mold fill out.
The store bought pure Lead swaged bullets are good up to around 1,000fps,
so I figure I'm OK with what I do with cast in a Gold Cup & S&W Model 52 target handguns.

I've got plenty of hard stuff, and such, but try to conserve it.
In the old days, pure Lead and wheel weights were almost free, but are drying up pretty fast.
A roll of 95/5 solder was $6-7 bucks. Now--- it's closer to $35.

[Apple Man]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't want to buy any tin/solder.

I have 1,000#s of linotype.

Tomorrow I am going to see a buddy who has an incredible amount of of wheel weights, (60 5 gallon pails half full) and a bunch of dead soft lead that I can have for next to nothing. I want the mix to be comprised of this.

[dverna]

If you mix Linotype with soft lead at 1:1 you will get "hardball" (92,2,6). This is what commercial casters use.

I used to mix Linotype with range lead (from a .22 cal range) at 1:2. This gave me about 1.5% Sn, 4% Sb and 94.5% lead. I used that alloy for pistol bullets and it worked well.

[Rickf1985]

He is looking for something for 38 and 45 so really he only needs a BHN of 10-12 max. Straight wheel weights are perfect for that with a little tin added for fill out. That is what I use for all of my pistol bullets. Then again I am not building full house magnum loads. I did just get a gas check mould for the 357 so may try it but my arthritic hands can't take much of that.

[ShooterAZ]

I would use 1 part lino to 4 parts soft lead for your pistol bullets, could go a little more lino for your 40S&W. I use 1 part lino to 3 parts WW for my rifle bullets.

[dondiego]

3 pounds of soft lead to 1 pound of Linotype.

[BJung]

If it were me, I would save the linotype for high pressure loads for .357mag, 9mm, 40cal, and rifle bullets.

I use range scrap and separate the lead as follows: jacketed bullets are used for .38 and .45 cast bullets. The composition is harder than pure lead and more consistent than mixing all the range lead in small batches. I separate the hardcast bullets and use them as pills to add hardness to it my 9mm and 40cal mix. Large chunks of lead I melt for my 9mm and .40. I let my ingots sit atleast a month so the lead stabilizes and I measure the bhn. The powdery lead remaining after I wash the dirt out, I use to cast fishing weights.

[P Flados]

The high volume sources for both wheelweights (WW) and linotype have faded away. There is still a good bit of the old stuff out there, but availability is decreasing over time. As such, your Lino has a very high value compared to the stuff you seem to be able to easily obtain.

Go to rotometals (use link in the header of this page), and you can see how much the stuff goes for. Lino is 12% antimony and it has 4% tin to make casting nice. Old batch WW might have 3% antimony and less than 1% tin. When I say old batch, I mean the stuff that has been stashed from back before there were zinc WWs mixed in.

Street value of locally sourced lead will vary according to location and willingness of buyers to part with their cash. Mixed variety soft scrap is still generally available. Most of this will be close to pure, but some of it may be "medium hard". I can get all I want at the local scrap yard for less than $1.25 per pound. I would place locally sourced old batch WW ingots at over $2.00 per pound (say $1.75 per pound in WW form) and Lino at over $3.00 per pound.

Your option to buy WW and soft lead for "next to nothing" is something many Boolit guys would jump at and drag home as much as they have space to store.

You may want to "conserve" your Lino and use it to either blend in small percentages on an as needed basis, or offer it up for "local only" trade for softer stuff with a ratio based on what you see as "street value".

A 50-50 mix of older WW and "mixed bag soft" probably has enough antimony for my most demanding rifle bullet applications.

I have backed off a good bit but am still over say 7k per year for handgun boolits. I have found out how to make it work with range scrap (8 - 10 BHN). This includes full power 9mm, 357 mag, 357 Max and 44 Mag. I even use it for Contender stuff like 30 Herrett and 7 TCU.

I cast for 45 ACP and it works great with simple tumble lube. It would be worth trying something like one part WW and 3 parts soft lead just to see how soft you can go. One part lino and say 5 parts soft lead would be in the same ballpark if you really want to use lino.

Your 40 is probably closer to my 9mms. I struggled with leading in the 9mm even with using powder coat from the start. Eventually, I found the right technique to make the powder coated range scrap bullets operate at full power and be leading free. Going a little harder for the 40s than the 45s sounds reasonable to me.

[Winger Ed.]

Half wheel weights, and half pure Lead used to be a favorite for all around use.
It'd do well up into magnum handgun speeds also.

[Apple Man]

He is looking for something for 38 and 45 so really he only needs a BHN of 10-12 max. Straight wheel weights are perfect for that with a little tin added for fill out. That is what I use for all of my pistol bullets. Then again I am not building full house magnum loads. I did just get a gas check mould for the 357 so may try it but my arthritic hands can't take much of that.

You are correct, I believe 10 BNH would be ideal for me


The high volume sources for both wheelweights (WW) and linotype have faded away. There is still a good bit of the old stuff out there, but availability is decreasing over time. As such, your Lino has a very high value compared to the stuff you seem to be able to easily obtain.

Go to rotometals (use link in the header of this page), and you can see how much the stuff goes for. Lino is 12% antimony and it has 4% tin to make casting nice. Old batch WW might have 3% antimony and less than 1% tin. When I say old batch, I mean the stuff that has been stashed from back before there were zinc WWs mixed in.

Street value of locally sourced lead will vary according to location and willingness of buyers to part with their cash. Mixed variety soft scrap is still generally available. Most of this will be close to pure, but some of it may be "medium hard". I can get all I want at the local scrap yard for less than $1.25 per pound. I would place locally sourced old batch WW ingots at over $2.00 per pound (say $1.75 per pound in WW form) and Lino at over $3.00 per pound.

Your option to buy WW and soft lead for "next to nothing" is something many Boolit guys would jump at and drag home as much as they have space to store.

You may want to "conserve" your Lino and use it to either blend in small percentages on an as needed basis, or offer it up for "local only" trade for softer stuff with a ratio based on what you see as "street value".

A 50-50 mix of older WW and "mixed bag soft" probably has enough antimony for my most demanding rifle bullet applications.

I have backed off a good bit but am still over say 7k per year for handgun boolits. I have found out how to make it work with range scrap (8 - 10 BHN). This includes full power 9mm, 357 mag, 357 Max and 44 Mag. I even use it for Contender stuff like 30 Herrett and 7 TCU.

I cast for 45 ACP and it works great with simple tumble lube. It would be worth trying something like one part WW and 3 parts soft lead just to see how soft you can go. One part lino and say 5 parts soft lead would be in the same ballpark if you really want to use lino.

Your 40 is probably closer to my 9mms. I struggled with leading in the 9mm even with using powder coat from the start. Eventually, I found the right technique to make the powder coated range scrap bullets operate at full power and be leading free. Going a little harder for the 40s than the 45s sounds reasonable to me.


After doing a bunch of reading here, I am thinking if I use 12 #s WW with 1 # of lintotype would give BNH of 11 or 12#s of Pb with 5#s of linotype.


Tomorrow I am going to see my buddy and get a bunch of Pb and WW.

Since we are talking alloys, he has a bunch of lead backings that were the shielding material for dental x rays. He says they are very small and extremely soft. Anybody ever heard of this material?

[jsizemore]

Dental foils. About 97% Pb, 1.5% Sb, ans 1.5% Sn. Your perfect 45acp alloy. Straight COWW will work for your 357 and 40 S&W loads. Since you don't want to use tin, just raise your alloy temp to improve fill out.

[pjames32]

I have a good supply of COWW's and use that for slower pistol bullets. I add a pound of linotype to 9 lbs of COWW for anything over 1000fps up to 1200fps. Over that I add more linotype. Like you I have thousands of pounds of various ingots. Welcome back!
I took about 15 years off around 1990. When I came back I found COWW was starting to get scarce,PID controllers make pot temperatures more stable and I miss those old heavy iron molds. Good luck!

[Apple Man]

Dental foils. About 97% Pb, 1.5% Sb, ans 1.5% Sn. Your perfect 45acp alloy. Straight COWW will work for your 357 and 40 S&W loads. Since you don't want to use tin, just raise your alloy temp to improve fill out.

Wow, hat's off to the man with the big brain.[smilie=s:

I did some searching and never thought to call it a "foil".

Thank you, that fact is very helpful. I will grab all he has. I believe there are several 3# coffee cans full.

[bruce381]

I would do this also. BUT try 100% WW first if no good fill out then add a Lb or so of Lino keep or trade the rest as needed.

"I am thinking if I use 12 #s WW with 1 # of lintotype would give BNH of 11 or 12#s of Pb with 5#s of linotype"

[jsizemore]

Wow, hat's off to the man with the big brain.[smilie=s:

I did some searching and never thought to call it a "foil".

Thank you, that fact is very helpful. I will grab all he has. I believe there are several 3# coffee cans full.

No big brain here. We have a member here that used to run the machine that made those. He supplied the info. My local dentist used to give those to me so he didn't have to pay for their disposal. When dentist went digital, they would donate their old equipment to the county for the tax write off. Then the county contracted with a scrapyard to dispose of them. I disposed of all that scrapyard's lead for years. They'd have a bin (3'x3'x3') full of those foils. I'd only end up with a 5 gallon bucket of ingots but they was about the cleanest ingots I ever smelted/cleaned. Since the Sb & Sn is balanced, they cast like Lyman #2. But the alloy is soft enough to use in 45acp, 38 special or light 357 mag. It's about the same as 50% COWW + 50% Pb with 1% tin added on top. Really good for casting pistol hollow points. Works well with fast to medium speed pistol powders.

[RogerDat]

I like to make Lyman #2 since it will work for bullets that are pushed as hard as I'm likely to need if bullet is powder coated. Cuts well 50/50 with plain lead for 38/357 mag or 45 acp.

Having a good supply of type lead makes it easier to mix up Lyman #2. Essentially you just have to add alloy to the type metal to get the tin and antimony equal then mix with plain down to 5% of each. If using WW's instead of plain then one has to take the antimony in the WW's into account.

Best bet is just download the alloy calculator and plug in your existing rich alloys and adjust the amounts until it hits the BHN and alloy you desire.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

[dale2242]

Check out this very informative article.
At the bottom of the article there is a list of alloy recipes.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

[jsizemore]

Just had some dental foil alloy checked. It tested 97.2% Pb, 1.4% Sb, 1.4% Sn. BHN tests at 9.248 or thereabouts.

[farmbif]

sounds like your in good shape if you get all those buckets full. you have lots of options. all ive ever used in 380, 9mm and 40 s&w From mild to max velocity was straight clip on wheels weights with a bit of tin added. so maybe a pound or so of Lino added to 10 pounds wheel weights would give you a bit of that added tin and you will be shooting all you want. and with all those alloys you could experiment with Lino and pure lead in all sorts of proportions. there is no wrong answer and all of it will work

[Apple Man]

Well I got three 5 gallons pails of scrap plumbers lead, a bucket of stained glass came. This rendered down to 88 ingots averaging around 2.4 #s.322078322079

[Apple Man]

I do have to laugh at myself. The old proverb about don't ASSume anything?

Well I got half a 5 gallon pail of black powder round ball and maxi balls. I figured this would be dead soft lead? So I mixed a batch of these with linotype in a 2:1 mix, then did a scratch test on the boolits. They came in @ BNH of 16-18.:roll: I added 2.5#s of dead soft lead to the pot and they dropped to BNH 15 so another 2.5#s of soft lead was added and got them to about BNH12.

[WRideout]

For years I used straight WW for both rifle and pistol and it worked perfectly. Nowadays I use homogenized range scrap with "some" tin added for fillout. For 38 and 45 you don't need to get too fancy. It would probably cause more trouble by being too hard, rather than too soft. You do have a pretty good collection, though. With that much lino, you could think about selling some via the swapping and selling subforum to help fund your hobby.

Wayne

[Land Owner]

Read, read, and read some more, especially Fryxell's Ingot to Target (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?110212-From-Ingot-to-Target-A-Cast-Bullet-Guide-for-Handgunners). His suggestion of 49-49-2 percent PB-WW-Sn has served me well, though I am neither chasing speed nor hyper-accuracy.

Hits on target make sense. I shoot for fun and hope I never have to shoot for survival, though shots on target are the means for survival. "Across a room" handgun distance doesn't require a "super-accurate" gun or rounds, though making accurate rounds and practicing improves proficiency when life and limb are on the line.