Trimming 357 brass fur heavy bullets

[Gatorhunter1313]

I have a friend that ordered a 200gr mold. He was hoping to use it in his revolver. He hasn’t gotten it yet but when he showed me the mold he got from accurate it says nose too long for most 357 magnums. My question is can I trim 357 brass to 38 special length so I can crimp the brass in the crimp groove on the bullet? Is it worth trimming 357 brass? I have a ton of 38 special brass but I don’t know if it will hold up to those pressures. I know I saw a post a while back about using 38 brass for this purpose but I can’t find that thread again.

[fredj338]

You certainly can trim the brass back but your load data must be with that brass. You are severally reducing powder space with a 200gr bullet. I personally dont see the need. A 180gr solid will penetrate about the same with the addl vel & fits in magnum brass with more room for powder.

[TomAM]

First, get measurements.
The cylinder length of your intended revolver might be longer than most.
All Accurate design drawings show the bullet nose length. Add that to 357 case length to see whether length will be a problem.

[stubshaft]

YES, while shooting sillywett I routinely loaded SAECO and RCBS 200 gr. bullets in 38 special cases. I saw NO difference in the web of the brass indicating a difference in thickness or strength. They were usually powered by 14.0 H110/296/680 powder and had NO indications of excess pressure in ANY brand of cases.

[Gatorhunter1313]

I usually run a 180gr from an accurate mold I had hollowpointed. I love that design. I told him to just use the same mold I got but he went with a 200gr. Once it gets here I’ll have to take measurements and make up dummy rounds and see what comes of it

[Gatorhunter1313]

YES, while shooting sillywett I routinely loaded SAECO and RCBS 200 gr. bullets in 38 special cases. I saw NO difference in the web of the brass indicating a difference in thickness or strength. They were usually powered by 14.0 H110/296/680 powder and had NO indications of excess pressure in ANY brand of cases.


I finally found a thread on another forum about running 38 special cases. A lot of mixed reviews but the main issue people seem to have is the danger of one of those rounds making its way into a 38 revolver

[BK7saum]

Why can't you just seat to the length of the cylinder and apply the crimp at that length, even if it crimps over the start of the ogive.

[waco]

These are the little things to figure out BEFORE you order a custom mold.
Hope you guys find a suitable solution.

[Gatorhunter1313]

Why can't you just seat to the length of the cylinder and apply the crimp at that length, even if it crimps over the start of the ogive.


With the shape of the nose there won’t be anything to crimp to from what I’m seeing. I guess I’ll have to test it out when he gets the mold.

[Gatorhunter1313]

These are the little things to figure out BEFORE you order a custom mold.
Hope you guys find a suitable solution.


I absolutely agree. I think he ordered it because of the wide metplate. He wants to hunt with his Taurus raging hunter.

[kenton]

I finally found a thread on another forum about running 38 special cases. A lot of mixed reviews but the main issue people seem to have is the danger of one of those rounds making its way into a 38 revolver

If it won't fit in a 357 chamber I doubt it would fit in a 38.

[Gatorhunter1313]

If it won't fit in a 357 chamber I doubt it would fit in a 38.

I don’t even think of that. Makes me feel better about them making their way into a 38

[El Bibliotecario]

As you can gather from the responses, this is a controversial topic. I've never sectioned .357 and .38 cases for comparison so I don't know their respective strengths. I currently load a longish Keith 173 grain bullet in .38 Special cases, for what I would describe as "38-44" loads, in the zone between the two cartridges, with no problem. I don't worry about chambering such loads in inappropriate weapons, but that's just me. I suggest the original poster does whatever he's comfortable with.

[20:1]

Wait until he receives the mold and cast a few samples before deciding what you need to do. You don't really have all of the information you need yet.

[Gatorhunter1313]

As you can gather from the responses, this is a controversial topic. I've never sectioned .357 and .38 cases for comparison so I don't know their respective strengths. I currently load a longish Keith 173 grain bullet in .38 Special cases, for what I would describe as "38-44" loads, in the zone between the two cartridges, with no problem. I don't worry about chambering such loads in inappropriate weapons, but that's just me. I suggest the original poster does whatever he's comfortable with.

I was reading all the back and forth with using 38 special cases. I was always thinking if it got stuck in a 38 special with a 357 magnum load. Maybe I’ll have to section a 357 and a 38 and check them. My heaviest is 180gr accurate mold that I had hollow pointed and comes in right around 173gr.

[Gatorhunter1313]

Wait until he receives the mold and cast a few samples before deciding what you need to do. You don't really have all of the information you need yet.


Yeah, I get ahead of myself. I just don’t know much about loading 200gr bullets with a long nose

[poppy42]

I have a friend that ordered a 200gr mold. He was hoping to use it in his revolver. He hasn’t gotten it yet but when he showed me the mold he got from accurate it says nose too long for most 357 magnums. My question is can I trim 357 brass to 38 special length so I can crimp the brass in the crimp groove on the bullet? Is it worth trimming 357 brass? I have a ton of 38 special brass but I don’t know if it will hold up to those pressures. I know I saw a post a while back about using 38 brass for this purpose but I can’t find that thread again.
The mold Was probably designed and more suited for a 357 maximum. Long 200 grain bullets are very common in the maximum. As a matter of fact I need to get one for my maximum if it doesn’t work out and he wants to get rid of it PM me

[trapper9260]

I use the Noe 360-200 FN it works in my Rossi 92 and Ruger BH and SP101 no problems . Hope this helps .The Mold came with the pins for HP .

[P Flados]

The real issue is entirely the concern about loading ammo at greater than the SAAMI rating of the headstamp and then the ammo getting used in a gun not designed for the higher pressure.

38 brass is plenty strong for 357 rated pressure, 35,000 psi. In fact in something like a Contender, I would wager it would stand up to 55,000 psi just fine. The first symptom of pushing 38 brass too hard will be the primer pockets getting loose.

Some folks are willing to routinely load 38 Sp brass at higher than SAAMI limits and then use this ammo in a 357. I am not one of them. I will admit that I have done some heavy bullet "testing" in a Henry with 38 Sp instead of 357 brass. I only did this as I was confident my gun was strong enough and all such ammo was fired or disassembled shortly after being loaded. After I found something that my gun liked, I trimmed some 357 brass to 38 SP length for routine use of this "long bullet" load.

Over the years I have learned that is is just too easy to lose track of what was in a given batch of ammo and/or any limitations on what guns it was loaded for. Not to mention the risk of "dropped ammo" at a gun range. This is just a hobby, I want no part in doing something stupid that ends up hurting myself or others and I want no part in damaging any gun.

[Gatorhunter1313]

The mold Was probably designed and more suited for a 357 maximum. Long 200 grain bullets are very common in the maximum. As a matter of fact I need to get one for my maximum if it doesn’t work out and he wants to get rid of it PM me

I’ll find out. I’m trying to get the exact mold he ordered. If it doesn’t work out I’ll let you know. It’s a 2 cavity that’s all I know so far

[Gatorhunter1313]

The real issue is entirely the concern about loading ammo at greater than the SAAMI rating of the headstamp and then the ammo getting used in a gun not designed for the higher pressure.

38 brass is plenty strong for 357 rated pressure, 35,000 psi. In fact in something like a Contender, I would wager it would stand up to 55,000 psi just fine. The first symptom of pushing 38 brass too hard will be the primer pockets getting loose.

Some folks are willing to routinely load 38 Sp brass at higher than SAAMI limits and then use this ammo in a 357. I am not one of them. I will admit that I have done some heavy bullet "testing" in a Henry with 38 Sp instead of 357 brass. I only did this as I was confident my gun was strong enough and all such ammo was fired or disassembled shortly after being loaded. After I found something that my gun liked, I trimmed some 357 brass to 38 SP length for routine use of this "long bullet" load.

Over the years I have learned that is is just too easy to lose track of what was in a given batch of ammo and/or any limitations on what guns it was loaded for. Not to mention the risk of "dropped ammo" at a gun range. This is just a hobby, I want no part in doing something stupid that ends up hurting myself or others and I want no part in damaging any gun.

Once I have the mold maybe I will load a dummy round in a 38 special case. Then I’ll know what fits

[725]

Glenn Fryxel addressed a heavy .35 caliber in the .357 magnum. Refer to the LASC site for his articles and specifically his article, "A Bullet For All Seasons". Should give some great information on your question.

[Gatorhunter1313]

Glenn Fryxel addressed a heavy .35 caliber in the .357 magnum. Refer to the LASC site for his articles and specifically his article, "A Bullet For All Seasons". Should give some great information on your question.

I just pulled out a bunch of 357 ammo I have. One box is 200gr Lee mold cast. I remember testing them now. But I used them in my Rossi 92. I forgot I had these

[blackthorn]

Originally Posted by Gatorhunter1313
I finally found a thread on another forum about running 38 special cases. A lot of mixed reviews but the main issue people seem to have is the danger of one of those rounds making its way into a 38 revolver
If it won't fit in a 357 chamber I doubt it would fit in a 38.

Originally Posted by kenton
If it won't fit in a 357 chamber I doubt it would fit in a 38.
I don’t even think of that. Makes me feel better about them making their way into a 38

Just a point:---we are talking about a round/case that has already been reworked to fit. So-----?

[leadhead]

I shot silhouette for 22 years and used the RCBS 35-200 gr bullet that was designed for the .35 Rem.
I was using a Freedom Arms .357 revolver with 357 brass. I don't remember if the FA's cylinder was
longer or not, but the bullets weighed 210 gr. I won a lot of matches with that bullet.
leadhead

[Gatorhunter1313]

I have used a 358430 195 grain Lyman with two crimp grooves for years with a 38 special case and 2400 powder. All you need is a Lee manual. The Lee book has different seating lengths. I use a 195 in my model 19 long barrel S&W. If you use in a model 27 the boolit has to be in the longest crimp on the boolit. Expect the heavy boolit to shoot higher which is good to me. The boolit is very accurate. Winchester has load data in the older magazines with 3.8 of 231 @770fps for 38 special with 15500 pressure and 12.4 of W296 @ 1335fps and 35000 pressure for magnum. 2400 powder is your friend loading down 357. Depends on the cylinder-You may have to size the boolit to .357 to fit the throats. They will be all the way to the end of the cylinder. Here is a 50 yard target I worked up with 4227 powder.

Thank you for that info. I think I have a couple pounds of 2400 so I can help him do some testing. I’ll dig out my Lee book and check it out

[muskeg13]

I've got Lee C358-200s loaded in my bedside .38 Special M10 S&W right now. Length is fine as long as the cases are crimped over the larger diameter band at the base of the ogive (I don't know what this is called) forward of the normal crimp groove/front driving band. Pressure isn't an issue if you follow published pressure tested loads. LoadData has several dozen 200 grain .38 Special loads that don't exceed 16,000 psi, and older Lyman manuals list a few more. I've loaded the same boolit in a .357 S&W Model 60 crimped in the crimp groove forward of the first drive band, and length isn't a problem in the .357, but crimped this way, they are too long for the M10 .38 Special.

I've also loaded the 195gr Lyman SWC in both guns without issues. I haven't done a lot of shooting or load development with the 195/200 gr boolits, but using several standard pressure published loads, they've been reasonably accurate with mild recoil. The load I like best so far is the Lee C358-200 in .38 Special cases loaded over 3.6 gr of Unique. LoadData lists this at 15,700 psi and about 780fps in a 5.6" barrel. 321009 321010

[Gatorhunter1313]

I've got Lee C358-200s loaded in my bedside .38 Special M10 S&W right now. Length is fine as long as the cases are crimped over the larger diameter band at the base of the ogive (I don't know what this is called) forward of the normal crimp groove/front driving band. Pressure isn't an issue if you follow published pressure tested loads. LoadData has several dozen 200 grain .38 Special loads that don't exceed 16,000 psi, and older Lyman manuals list a few more. I've loaded the same boolit in a .357 S&W Model 60 crimped in the crimp groove forward of the first drive band, and length isn't a problem in the .357, but crimped this way, they are too long for the M10 .38 Special.

I've also loaded the 195gr Lyman SWC in both guns without issues. I haven't done a lot of shooting or load development with the 195/200 gr boolits, but using several standard pressure published loads, they've been reasonably accurate with mild recoil. The load I like best so far is the Lee C358-200 in .38 Special cases loaded over 3.6 gr of Unique. LoadData lists this at 15,700 psi and about 780fps in a 5.6" barrel. 321009 321010

I have that same Lee mold. I can load them to the crimp groove. They feed in my Rossi 92. The only 357 revolver I have is a Taurus poly defender. That is my wife’s so I don’t shoot it much. She shoots 158gr Hornady with it. She won’t shoot my reloads and she won’t shoot fmj ammo. She took train with what you carry to the extreme. I spend a lot on Hornady ammo for her to practice

[Gatorhunter1313]

Turns out the notes my friend put in for the mold triggered a list of questions. He has changed his design to a 180gr that will work much better. Guess this was all for nothing. I want to than everyone for the great information though.