Circuit breakers

[Battis]

My current kitchen stove runs on a 60 amp breaker. It's been there for at least 25 years. I have a new stove coming that requires a 40 amp breaker.
Some people say (including an electrician) that I can leave the 60 amp breaker. Younger electricians say it has to be dropped to a 40 amp breaker.
I'm thinking that it should be replaced with a 40 amp breaker.
Any suggestions?

I've replaced breakers in the past (many years ago) but never a 220 line. Other than making sure that the two wires are inserted properly, is there anything else to consider? I'll shut the power off, check for voltage, then swap it out.
Easy, right?

[lavenatti]

The size of the breaker correlates with the wire gauge. As long as the proper wire was used with the 60 amp breaker there's really no need to change it. In fact you may have a little difficulty with the current wire diameter fitting into a 40 amp breaker.
That your stove draws less current than the old one shouldn't matter. Some of the 15 and 20 amp breakers in your box probably only have a lamp or TV plugged into them.

[DCB]

its wattage divided by voltage equals amps
Manufacture states 40 amp breaker thats what you need to use to protect the product and not start a fire.

[Battis]

The current stove is at least 25 years old, and I have no idea what the manufacturer required for the breaker. I doubt it was 60 amps. Yesterday, an electrician (old timer) said that the 60 amp breaker was probably what the electrician had in his truck. He wouldn't change it. Another electrician (young) also said to go by the manufacturer's 40 amp breaker to protect against a fire.
I'll probably change it but the suggestion that the wire might not fit in a 40 amp breaker is interesting. I won't know until I try to install the 40 amp breaker...right? Is there a way to find out before I try to replace it?

[Hannibal]

I have no knowledge of your level of skill. Having said that, there are multiple areas in a circuit breaker box that are constantly energized. No way of knowing what configuration your current panel has so no way to suggest the safest route.

It's quite likely that the receptacle you currently have will not be compatible with the plug on your new stove. You might need a new receptacle and you might need a wiring change.

Personally I would at minimum find a friend who understands residential wiring or better yet hire someone to make the conversation for you. That person can also evaluate the circuit breaker situation.

Probably not what you want to hear, but sometimes we need to be saved from ourselves.

When I was in my very early teens an Uncle of mine was fatally electrocuted attempting a similar repair. He was a very gifted woodworker but he was no electrician. Our family was devastated.

[Battis]

You're right about hiring someone. Switching out the breaker isn't the only issue - it might be the wiring, too. The new stove will take a 3 or 4 prong plug (there's a 3 prong plug now).

[compass will]

And the stove might be aluminum wire, that takes a special coating and torque settings are more critical.

[Hannibal]

And the stove might be aluminum wire, that takes a special coating and torque settings are more critical.

Just my opinion, but if it's aluminum I'd want it replaced no matter what. I do NOT like that stuff inside structures.

[45_Colt]

The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the appliance. No need to change it.

45_Colt

[sukivel]

The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the appliance. No need to change it.

45_Colt

Yep, this is NEC code.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Battis]

If I didn't change it, and there was a problem with the stove, could that give the manufacturer a reason to negate the warranty?

[20:1]

If I didn't change it, and there was a problem with the stove, could that give the manufacturer a reason to negate the warranty?

OP needs to read the manual. From what I've read so far, OP will not be comfortable unless the breaker is changed, so he should do it and have the wiring inspected.

[Battis]

I've read the info on the stove. It says 40 amp breaker. I get varying answers as to what that actually means. I was told I could drop down from a 60 amp breaker to a 40 amp breaker, but not the other way (40 to 60). I've been told that it's not safe to run the stove with a 60 amp breaker, and I've been told that it's not necessary to change the breaker. Two electricians that I contacted told me different answers. I'll pay to have it switched if I have to, but I'm trying to avoid having any type of inspector come into my house. I'd rather just plug the new stove in and go with it as it is but I want to be safe.
Just like a newbie gun owner trying to wade through the info out there.

[Hannibal]

I've read the info on the stove. It says 40 amp breaker. I get varying answers as to what that actually means. I was told I could drop down from a 60 amp breaker to a 40 amp breaker, but not the other way (40 to 60). I've been told that it's not safe to run the stove with a 60 amp breaker, and I've been told that it's not necessary to change the breaker. Two electricians that I contacted told me different answers. I'll pay to have it switched if I have to, but I'm trying to avoid having any type of inspector come into my house. I'd rather just plug the new stove in and go with it as it is but I want to be safe.
Just like a newbie gun owner trying to wade through the info out there.

Ok, I don't know all the answers but I do know a few.

To my knowledge, there is NO reason an inspector needs to look at your property for replacing a circuit breaker or even replacing the wiring. I suppose it's possible some areas have such a requirement but definitely not anywhere close to where I live.

You CAN go from a 60 Amp breaker to a 40 Amp breaker. Think of it as removing a 3" drain and installing a 2" drain. The sewer line was big enough to handle the 3", it's more than able to handle the 2". Now, going the other way would probably be a problem. You can't install a 60 Amp breaker on wiring previously installed for a 40 Amp breaker. The wire would overheat and fail before the circuit breaker tripped. Using the plumbing example, a 3" drain would overwhelm a 2" sewer. That's not an exact comparison so any plumbers reading this let's not argue specifics, please. Illustration purposes only.

There is an argument to be made that the 60 Amp breaker is too large for an appliance that calls for a 40 Amp breaker, but that's probably MINIMAL service requirement, not maximum. Again, let's revert to plumbing for an example. There's a main water line feeding fresh water into your house. Once it enters the home it branches off into multiple smaller lines for sinks, toilets, bathtubs, etc, etc. The inside of that stove is the same way. Multiple circuits branching off for stove top burners, oven elements, broilers, etc. So the idea that a 40 Amp breaker will somehow protect the stove is somewhat misleading.

Again, the above are generalized and for illustration purposes only.

I hope the OP finds this helpful. If it were me and the wire for the stove is NOT aluminum, I wouldn't concern myself with changing the breaker. If the wiring IS aluminum, I would want it replaced and while we're at it we might as well replace the breaker.

If we really want to split hairs, who ever saw a 60 Amp breaker for a kitchen stove to begin with? That's unusual. I would want someone who knows what they are looking at to check and make sure that 60 Amp breaker is appropriate for the wiring to begin with.

[Hometek]

Most stoves have the option to change the 4 wire to a 3 wire cord. There's a jumper inside the connection box on the stove that will need to be installed. The stove may have a max breaker size listed on the nameplate. If so I would go by that. If the wire size is correct for the 60 amp breaker then I wouldn't be overly concerned about the 60 amp breaker feeding a smaller stove. It's kinda like plugging in an appliance that only pulls 2 amps into a 120v circuit that has a 20 amp breaker on it. If something faults to ground in the stove the breaker is still going to clear it. When stove elements fail then it draws less amps not more. The 120 volt circuits in the stove are protected with fuses or breakers in the stove if they are present. Nothing to worry about in my opinion. Obviously going the other direction, 60 amp breaker on a wire that the NEC requires a 40 amp breaker on it is not advisable or legal.

[Battis]

Good answers that make sense. I'm waiting on a call back from an electrician to have it checked out.

[Hometek]

However, if the nameplate just says that the stove requires a 40 amp circuit, then that is the minimum requirement for the stove. Not the maximum limit. Only if the nameplate restricts the breaker amperage to a maximum value would you need to reduce the breaker size.

[Hannibal]

Good answers that make sense. I'm waiting on a call back from an electrician to have it checked out.

That sounds like a solid plan to me. Hopefully this is all much ado about nothing.

[Battis]

My wife had wanted a gas stove. We picked one out, then got a price to run the gas line from the front of the house to the kitchen in the back (45'). $2000 - $3000, plus an electrical line for the controls, permits, inspections, etc. We decided to stay with electric (induction). I could swap the breaker out but I'll have the electrician do it and check things out.
Thanks for the replies.

[farmbif]

its like running my 30 amp welder on the 50 amp wired outlet and breaker that the other welders require. i've maxed that thing out for hours at a time and had no problems whatsoever ever, ive been doing it since welding school back in the 70's, if the wire or breaker is too small thats where you run into problems. but I'm no expert or an electrical engineer.

[Hannibal]

Me neither. Never even stayed at a Holiday Inn.

[MaryB]

My dad was a state electrical inspector, it rubbed off on me...

a 40 amp draw on a 60 amp circuit is fine, if a short develops it will still pop the breaker before the wire over heats. You cannot go the opposite direction.

Swapping a breaker is easy. Turn it off, remove the 2 hot wires(240 volt breaker) being careful not to touch any other exposed breaker connections. Unsnap or tilt out the breaker(depends on brand), put new one in making sure it is turned OFF, connect 2 wires and turn it on. Done. If you are afraid of electricity you can turn off the main... then the only hot wires will be the ones entering the main breaker.

[Battis]

I've done it before, long ago. All I had to do this time was put my Big Boy pants on, stop thinking, and do it. Instead, I called my wife's nephew today, an electrician. I took pics of the panel and sent them to him. He'll be here tomorrow.

[popper]

You need to check local code. Only electrician allowed to change breakers. Probably need the elec guy check all the breakers (temp gauge) and panel. FP had some bad panels that started fires. It's there to protect wiring, not end item. Breakers do get old and the thermal cutoff in them sometimes gets overheated/fails.

[Hannibal]

You need to check local code. Only electrician allowed to change breakers. Probably need the elec guy check all the breakers (temp gauge) and panel. FP had some bad panels that started fires. It's there to protect wiring, not end item. Breakers do get old and the thermal cutoff in them sometimes gets overheated/fails.

Glad I don't live where you do. Just sayin'.

Not that way around here. Still need to know what you're doin'.

Federal Pacific panels are still out there. Circuit breakers were the problem. Not the panel itself.

Yes, I am an electrician. Not residential wiring licensed which is why I emphasize caution. The stuff I deal with is 1250 volts and 2500 amps. Rolls around on wheels up to 75mph.

[Iron369]

I’m a licensed master electrician. You don’t need to change the breaker

[Hannibal]

Interesting. How do you know that since a 60 Amp service for a stove is being discussed? No one knows the gauge of the wire ......

Assumption is the Mother of all misfortunes.

[Iron369]

Interesting. How do you know that since a 60 Amp service for a stove is being discussed? No one knows the gauge of the wire ......

Assumption is the Mother of all misfortunes.

The op mentioned a 60a circuit and not a 60a service. Because it had a 60a breaker on it, I’d have to assume that the wire is rated for 60a. The op didn’t mention the wire size or length of the circuit. Or even voltage. Only the existing over current protective device for that one circuit.
It’s easy to infer that the current homeowner wouldn’t swap out a smaller breaker for the 60a breaker since he/she/they/whatever is unwilling to swap out the 60 for a 40.

[Hannibal]

The op mentioned a 60a circuit and not a 60a service. Because it had a 60a breaker on it, I’d have to assume that the wire is rated for 60a. The op didn’t mention the wire size or length of the circuit. Or even voltage. Only the existing over current protective device for that one circuit.
It’s easy to infer that the current homeowner wouldn’t swap out a smaller breaker for the 60a breaker since he/she/they/whatever is unwilling to swap out the 60 for a 40.

Now we're arguing semantics. Is is really necessary to say that it's a 60 amp circuit? And assumptions.

I'm out. Ya'll have fun.

[Battis]

It's 220 volt outlet. How would I know the wire size or length of the circuit (whatever that is)? Should the average homeowner know these things? Possibly.
It's not that he/she/they/whatever isn't willing to swap out the breaker, he/she/they/whatever is just asking if it's necessary.
I've spoken with three licensed master electricians, and two said swap it out, one said it's not necessary.
Lordy, Lordy, what's a he/she/they/whatever supposed to do?
I'm just funnin'. I appreciate all the replies. As I said, I'm having an electrician do the swap tomorrow, and he can evaluate the situation.

How many phycologists does it take to change a lightbulb?
One, but the bulb has to want to change.

[georgerkahn]

You're right about hiring someone. Switching out the breaker isn't the only issue - it might be the wiring, too. The new stove will take a 3 or 4 prong plug (there's a 3 prong plug now).

The wire size/gauge determines its safe current carrying capacity. If the wiring you have has safely carried 60 amperes, there's zero reason to change the breaker for your new appliance!
Re the 3-wire- vs 4-wire plug, codes do vary by state. In my state currently, for BRAND NEW CONSTRUCTION the four-wire socker/plug is mandated. However, if one purchases a 220V clothes dryer electric range, or similar appliance, -- these appliances all are sold without the hook-up cord and the purchaser may elect to buy whichever. I do strongly suggest a new cord for your range -- as a matter of interest, many brands (e.g., LG) have dedicated unique hook-ups to their appliances which
makes this a necessity.
For kicks & giggles I checked out Low's -- and her's the link for both 3-wire as well as 4-wire cordsets: https://www.lowes.com/pl/Oven--Appliance-power-cords-Appliance-parts-accessories-Appliances/4294524377?refinement=711973858141
geo

[Battis]

The delivery guys will bring a 3 and a 4 prong cord and attach the correct one (for $24).
Even if the breaker is fine, it's still close to 30 years old. The electrician will have a correct new one, which is more convenient than pulling the old one out and trying to find the right one.

[45_Colt]

For anyone that believes the circuit breaker needs to be changed. You need to change a bunch of them. A 60W light bulb only requires a 1/2 A, so get rid of the those 15A and 20A breakers that are protecting those circuits and replace them with 1/2A breakers... :killingpc:groner:

You really want to have fun, check the NEC code for arc welder circuits (wiring & breakers). Something about duty cycle involved. :-P

45_Colt

[georgerkahn]

The delivery guys will bring a 3 and a 4 prong cord and attach the correct one (for $24).
Even if the breaker is fine, it's still close to 30 years old. The electrician will have a correct new one, which is more convenient than pulling the old one out and trying to find the right one.

Working in electricity for a good many years (and still alive to talk about it) we explained (or tried to) to customers that a circuit breaker is like a mouse-trap, with a wire which gets hot enough -- with marked current -- to release -- like the sear from a trigger -- and open the circuit. Once this wire (actually a bi-metallic strip) cools, it returns to its pre-heated shape and this mouse-trap (circuit breaker) may again be set. A glass fuse, instead, simply has a wire current passes through which gets warmer in sync with the amount of amperage passing through it. Once the rated amount is attained -- this wire simply melts -- thus breaking the circuit. Sadly, once this happens you're simply out of luck to only replace it with another glass fuse. (In "my day" they purveyed screw-in inserts with smaller diameters to present homeowners from replacing burnt fuses with those of larger ampacity. This is moot for stoves, water heaters, and clothes dryers, though, as they employed cartridge fuses in a holder).
The beauty of the circuit breaker was/is that if the current increases to point of being such that the wire starts to heat up --it will trip. I have NEVER ever heard of a breaker being out-dated, and in my own home and shop the breakers are more than fifty years of age!
You are being cautious/smart -- which is good -- HOWEVER, I do not believe a breaker change is necessary. Further -- perhaps my OWN bias -- where this past summer I did some electrical work I noted the made-in China breakers from the Home Depot weigh a fraction of the same rated 50-year old ones... Don't know, but *I* trust the old ones more! (Just me ;))
Good luck with your project!
geo

[BD]

I am not a licensed electrician, although years ago I held a class A city contractors license in PA for Harrisburg and Lancaster, (allowed me to pull wire but not set the meter or panels, I don't know if this is still the same in PA as I left there in 1981). I would ask the installer to take a close look at the wire size that is being fed by that 60 amp breaker from end to end. I am suspicious of this as it would be very tough to physically get #4 wire into any common range receptacle I have ever dealt with. The risk is that the wire run was over fused at some point, possibly to avoid going to the supply house for the proper breaker. Back in the day we typically pulled 6 wire for the range and fused it at 50 amps. 4 gauge wire would have been unusual, very difficult to deal with and more expensive. If it is #6 wire it really should be fused at 50 amps or less. And if it is the early cloth type 6 gauge, (which was the most common range wire prior to the '60s), it would make me really nervous fused at 60 amps.

[BD]

geo, I'd agree with you with the obvious exception of Federal Pacific breakers and panels. They are definitely out-dated, and dangerous. Many jurisdictions require them to be replaced in any commercial dwelling before you can pass the Fire Marshall's inspection.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Glad you are having an Electrician check this out.
recently, I found out a lot of stuff has changed with residential code in recent years... At least in liberal Minnesota.
I have some electrical knowledge. But like Hannibal, I have never been licensed for residential, but I sure have twisted a lot of wires in factories...big and small wires...industrial control panels.
.
Anyway, 6 years ago, during street and utility reconstruction in my neighborhood, The power company ran a new upgraded service. I asked them to run new wires to my garage...they did. I was to do the rest, but found I needed a Electrician connect these garage wires to the old meter boxes on the house (the house is a duplex). That started three different electrical projects that took 2.5 years, thanks to the State Inspector.
.
I'm not gonna write a book here, but the gist of what the inspector said, "if you are gonna do this(garage wires), you need to do that, the other, and something else too." About 3 grand later, I got a new meter box, and three new power distribution centers, but I did get rid of 6 different fuse boxes (yes fuse boxes, some round fuses, some long ones)

[Hannibal]

For those of you who wonder EXACTLY why the replacement of circuit breaker *may* be necessary refer to post #35. It would be UNUSUAL, not impossible but unusual if the wire installed during construction of the home was large enough to justify the installation of a 60 amp breaker to begin with. It's anybody's guess why that might have happened but now is a good time to correct it *if* an error was made for whatever reason.

If you still find this confusing, frankly you do not understand enough about electrical wiring and proper protection of that wiring. So please refrain from making assumptions and speaking about what you *think* is right.

This is beginning to resemble an Abbot and Costello routine.

The OP has made arrangements for a qualified relative to inspect the situation which is a wise decision. Meanwhile let's leave the scene of the equine carcass.

[Edward429451]

The current stove is at least 25 years old, and I have no idea what the manufacturer required for the breaker. I doubt it was 60 amps. Yesterday, an electrician (old timer) said that the 60 amp breaker was probably what the electrician had in his truck. He wouldn't change it. Another electrician (young) also said to go by the manufacturer's 40 amp breaker to protect against a fire.
I'll probably change it but the suggestion that the wire might not fit in a 40 amp breaker is interesting. I won't know until I try to install the 40 amp breaker...right? Is there a way to find out before I try to replace it?

I wasnt an "Electrician" but I was an HVAC Contractor and worked around electricity all the time. They used to let us pull the electrical permits but when the realized they could get double permit fees they made us start having electricians pull the permit, lol. But I was 30 years in the trade and Your new old stove will be better off if you leave the 60 amp breaker in place and just plug in your stove and use it. The breaker protects the wiring. The wiring is sized to handle 60 amps. 60 amps is more protection than 40 amps. Has the existing 60 amp breaker been working ok? You better leave it in place because if you put in a "new 40 amp breaker" who's to say if you wouldn't start experiencing tripped breaker syndrome from it having a weak leg?

It happens all the time. If you want to buy a new breaker as a spare for that, I'd buy another 60 amp breaker.

[Battis]

This is what a licensed electrician told me yesterday (not the one who is coming to change the breaker): if the stove manufacturer says 40 amps, go with the 40 amp breaker because, if there is a problem (whatever that might be) your stove's warranty could be voided, and, you could have a problem with your homeowner's insurance, if you don't follow what the manufacturer says. Worst case scenario, I know, and the electrician was trying to sell me his services, or, was he right? Also, are induction stoves different than a 30 year old electric stove as far as the way, and amount, of power they use? If there is a problem with the breaker tripping, then I'd go to a 50 amp breaker, or back to 60 amp breaker.
Believe me, I'd like nothing better than to just plug in the new one and be on my way.

[Hannibal]

This is what a licensed electrician told me yesterday (not the one who is coming to change the breaker): if the stove manufacturer says 40 amps, go with the 40 amp breaker because, if there is a problem (whatever that might be) your stove's warranty could be voided, and, you could have a problem with your homeowner's insurance, if you don't follow what the manufacturer says. Worst case scenario, I know, and the electrician was trying to sell me his services, or, was he right? Also, are induction stoves different than a 30 year old electric stove as far as the way, and amount, of power they use? If there is a problem with the breaker tripping, then I'd go to a 50 amp breaker, or back to 60 amp breaker.
Believe me, I'd like nothing better than to just plug in the new one and be on my way.

If the appliance calls for a 40 amp breaker that will be more than sufficient to provide enough power. If a 40 amp breaker trips there's something wrong and the solution is NOT that the stove needs a higher amperage breaker.

[Battis]

Good point.

[Battis]

New info:
I've been churning the info I got from this thread in my head and something dawned on me - I've been basing the decision to switch to a 40 amp breaker on what the salesman told me. DUH. I hadn't seen the owners manual (the stove will be delivered Saturday), only the spec sheet for the stove. So, I downloaded a copy of the owner's manual and searched it for the amp info. Sure enough, I found what I needed. It says, "This appliance must be supplied with the proper voltage and frequency, and connected to an individual, properly grounded, 40 amp (minimum) branch circuit protected by a circuit breaker or time-delay fuse."

The key word is right there - minimum. When I talked to the salesman about it, he said they'd never set a minimum. Well, they did.
So, everyone who told me that I didn't need to switch to a 40 amp breaker was right. The electrician who told me my warranty and home insurance might be nullified was wrong. In fairness to the electrician, he was going on what I had told him that the salesman had told me.
Plug it in and go.
Thanks for the replies.

[Hannibal]

New info:
I've been churning the info I got from this thread in my head and something dawned on me - I've been basing the decision to switch to a 40 amp breaker on what the salesman told me. DUH. I hadn't seen the owners manual (the stove will be delivered Saturday), only the spec sheet for the stove. So, I downloaded a copy of the owner's manual and searched it for the amp info. Sure enough, I found what I needed. It says, "This appliance must be supplied with the proper voltage and frequency, and connected to an individual, properly grounded, 40 amp (minimum) branch circuit protected by a circuit breaker or time-delay fuse."

The key word is right there - minimum. When I talked to the salesman about it, he said they'd never set a minimum. Well, they did.
So, everyone who told me that I didn't need to switch to a 40 amp breaker was right. The electrician who told me my warranty and home insurance might be nullified was wrong. In fairness to the electrician, he was going on what I had told him that the salesman had told me.
Plug it in and go.
Thanks for the replies.

Glad you got it sorted out.

[farmbif]

two issues ive dealt with in the past stand out in this discussion. "what the salesman said" in my experience they know very little except sell, sell, sell, especially if they get commission. the other thing worrying about warranty. in my past experiences warranty from most big manufacturers of consumer goods are not worth the paper they are written on,ive had thing go bad and after 60 or 90 days taking back to the store for refund forget about it give never ever been given satisfaction from manufacturer when their product goes bad "under warranty" this goes double for those extended warranties all the stores try to sell us.
just a couple observations from my past experience, yours may differ.

[jimlj]

I'm an electrician. I just cringe when someone asks electrical questions on a bullet casting forum. There is good, bad and plain unsafe advice given, and the OP is usually left as uninformed as he/she started.

Edit...I didn't see any unsafe advice here, just good and bad.

[MaryB]

No stove company is going to ask to look at your electrical box for a warranty claim. Insurance company yes... so they can try to deny a claim if you have a stove fire...

[Battis]

Where else would I ask a question? This forum has members from all trades, professions, backgrounds, etc. Look at some of the replies I got - some good, solid advice that led me to an answer. If I had read the manufacturer's requirements, and not listened to the salesman, I could have avoided this entire thread.
I cringe when I get different answers from licensed electricians.

[kerplode]

I cringe when I get different answers from licensed electricians.

If he convinces you to swap breakers, he gets to charge you $50 for the new breaker you didn't need and $100/hr to install it and fix the other problems he "found" in the process...

[Hannibal]

If he convinces you to swap breakers, he gets to charge you $50 for the new breaker you didn't need and $100/hr to install it and fix the other problems he "found" in the process...

This is partially true. I would take exception to the 'didn't need' comment and the 'found' comment. That implies fraud and is bad form at best. Read post #35. It would be UNUSUAL if when the structure was built that wiring of sufficient size was installed where a 60 amp breaker would be appropriate. This is why I suggested to the OP that he should have someone knowledgeable inspect it. It might be fine. I can't see it so I've no way of knowing. Neither can anyone else who hasn't personally inspected it.

The OP has apparently decided he's going to leave the breaker alone. That's fine. His home and his appliance replacement. I personally wouldn't do that without having it inspected by a competent, knowledgeable electrician but I'm not going to chastise him for it.

[Battis]

If I didn't buy a new stove, the wiring issue would have been moot. The house was built in 1892 and we've done quite a bit of work on it over the years - electrical, structural, plumbing, etc. The old stove is at least 25 years old but the wiring is nowhere near that old. My wife's late father was a licensed electrician who did all the work for us, including upgrading the service to 100 amps. If an electrician came into the house, or a plumber, they'd certainly find things that need upgrading but nothing unsafe or illegal. From what I've read, and from comments on this thread, I now feel completely confident that the breaker is fine for the job.

[poppy42]

The circuit breaker protects the wiring, not the appliance. No need to change it.

45_Colt

+1 thank you!!

[Finster101]

I'm just a casual observer, but boy has this sure been beaten to death. LOL

[ulav8r]

Sure, the breaker is fine, but what about the wire it is attached to it? Remove the panel cover and check the wire, then you can be sure it is ok. If you are not comfortable doing that have your relative do so.

[MaryB]

https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000667050139-9nvfm2-t500x500.jpg

[firefly1957]

I did not go though all the posts did anyone explain why breakers are needed?
Wire only carries so much amperage before it heats up so the wiring past the breaker is protected by the breaker generally 14 gauge wire is 15 amp breaker and 12 gauge 20 amp breaker . The appliance itself should have adequate wiring for it's draw and a direct short usually (not always) snaps a breaker or fuse before the wires heat up . I have had the whole house 200 amp breaker pop along with the electric stove 60 amp breaker when a piece of wire got in the burner plug. The wire what was left of it was from a bread tie .

I have seen two terrible examples of idiots one with a guy trying to run his Travel trailer on 150 feet on 14 Gauge wire . It worked until he A/C compressor came on then it blew a 30 amp circuit. Not knowing what was wrong he put in a 40 amp breaker and ruined his A/C from the low voltage he ended up with as wire could not take the current .
Second one was "supposedly" a professional electrician in a commercial building fully inspected and built in 1994 . We had outlets in a work area for using 1500 watt heat guns if we used more then one voltage dropped and they worked poorly . I measured the voltage and it was low with no load I thought if I could blow the breaker I would find the problem and added a couple more heat guns voltage dropped into the 80 volt range no breakers popped . Finally they got it looked at someone had wired the circuit from one side of 230 volt lighting circuit for the overhead 400 watt Mercury lights.
When new wires got run we had a couple circuits in the area instead on one and they got labeled only one heat gun to each.

[Winger Ed.]

. Finally they got it looked at someone had wired the circuit from one side of 230 volt lighting circuit for the overhead 400 watt Mercury lights.

I had a friend who was an electrician and got a call to a new office building one time.
Their electric IBM 'goof ball' type writers were working so well, they were punching holes all the way through
a sheet of paper and made it look like a stencil.

Not sure how it can be done, but the wall outlet circuit they were plugged into was running 220V.

[jsizemore]

220 leg of a 3 phase panel

[firefly1957]

WingerED I have seen the same happen in a circuit when the ground is pulled out half of the circuit panel would be dead half would get 220 V . A tungsten filament light would explode on turning the switch on ! In one case a windstorm damaged the incoming line in the other someone did it on purpose to a homeowner.

[GONRA]

GONRA's pretty sure I grew up in a "60 amp" home in WW II Chicago, IL area.
Remember Mid West Post War new housing developers bragging about "100 amp" homes.

[Jim22]

The reason for this advice is that the appliance is designed for the lower amperage. The circuit in the wall will support the higher amperage but the wiring in the appliance may not. Be safe. Get the proper circuit breaker to be safe.

Jim

[.429&H110]

Posted this before so I will post it again
I was in a wire fire 100 amp 480v just would not open
The main finally opened and stopped the fire
Circuit breakers can weld their contacts and just don't help
Change out old breakers when you can.

Doing service work I found an old lady running on one thirty amp sloblo fuse so I composed

"Old Miss Johnson had a fuse e i e i o
on this fuse she had a tv e i e i o
with a toaster here and a light bulb there
here a hair dryer, there a heating pad
she only worked them one at a time e i e i o

So I installed a 200A panel, and chased out the knob and tube.
She still does not know why.
I am sorry that it cost a lot of money to install that microwave.

[Battis]

Per the owner's manual:
"This appliance must be supplied with the proper voltage and frequency, and connected to an individual, properly grounded, 40 amp (minimum) branch circuit protected by a circuit breaker or time-delay fuse."

So, what would be the "proper circuit breaker"?

[Winger Ed.]

So, what would be the "proper circuit breaker"?

40 or bigger.
The appliance will draw what it wants/needs.
You need a circuit breaker and properly size wires to accommodate it.
The breaker protects the wires from getting a overload for their size, heating up, and possibly starting a fire.

Bigger is OK. Running it on a 50 or 60 amp wires & breaker works like plugging in,
or running a single 100 watt light bulb on a 20 amp circuit & breaker.

Those people who have a breaker that trips easily, and just swap in a larger rated one 'because it fits'
in the panel can burn down their house.

[jsizemore]

Per the owner's manual:
"This appliance must be supplied with the proper voltage and frequency, and connected to an individual, properly grounded, 40 amp (minimum) branch circuit protected by a circuit breaker or time-delay fuse."

So, what would be the "proper circuit breaker"?

As an old electrical teacher would say "The 40 amp breaker will afford you better protection."

[Bmi48219]

geo, I'd agree with you with the obvious exception of Federal Pacific breakers and panels. They are definitely out-dated, and dangerous. Many jurisdictions require them to be replaced in any commercial dwelling before you can pass the Fire Marshall's inspection.

As a side comment regarding breakers:
We bought a beachfront condo in the late 90’s that had been built by the Kaiser Development Corp in the late 60’s. The same Kaiser that built WW2 Liberty Ships and Industrial Facilities all over North America. Fourteen years later we decided to sell it. The purchaser had the place inspected. The condo unit breaker panel was a 100 amp Federal Pacific that, according to the inspector was dangerous, banned, and had to be replaced prior to closing.
That condo development was one building, four floors, twenty units on each floor. Coincidentally all the electrical mains, meters and feeds for the twenty units on our floor were in an electrical vault/room next door our unit. Virtually EVERY breaker and disconnect, and all the feeds and sub-feeds were also Federal Pacific. This was (and still is) true for the entire development.
I pointed this out to the purchaser and put him in touch with the insurance company that carried our Association policies. He bought our condo, FP breakers and all.

That building was 100% cast Concrete and CMU construction with steel studs throughout. The only wood it contained were the kitchen / bathroom cabinets and personal furnishings. When we sold our condo (2014) the development still conformed to the latest Miami-Dade Construction Codes, including those for wind, hurricane and fire safety.

If I understand it correctly the Federal Pacific fire problems were the result of overheating and this was (I think) attributed to aluminum wiring. Whatever the cause, FP breakers and replacement parts were still available at HD in 2014.
A fire requires a fuel source.

[Hannibal]

As a side comment regarding breakers:
We bought a beachfront condo in the late 90’s that had been built by the Kaiser Development Corp in the late 60’s. The same Kaiser that built WW2 Liberty Ships and Industrial Facilities all over North America. Fourteen years later we decided to sell it. The purchaser had the place inspected. The condo unit breaker panel was a 100 amp Federal Pacific that, according to the inspector was dangerous, banned, and had to be replaced prior to closing.
That condo development was one building, four floors, twenty units on each floor. Coincidentally all the electrical mains, meters and feeds for the twenty units on our floor were in an electrical vault/room next door our unit. Virtually EVERY breaker and disconnect, and all the feeds and sub-feeds were also Federal Pacific. This was (and still is) true for the entire development.
I pointed this out to the purchaser and put him in touch with the insurance company that carried our Association policies. He bought our condo, FP breakers and all.

That building was 100% cast Concrete and CMU construction with steel studs throughout. The only wood it contained were the kitchen / bathroom cabinets and personal furnishings. When we sold our condo (2014) the development still conformed to the latest Miami-Dade Construction Codes, including those for wind, hurricane and fire safety.

If I understand it correctly the Federal Pacific fire problems were the result of overheating and this was (I think) attributed to aluminum wiring. Whatever the cause, FP breakers and replacement parts were still available at HD in 2014.
A fire requires a fuel source.

I would be FAR more concerned about aluminum wiring inside a structure than anything else materials-wise. General Electric tried aluminum wiring in locomotive applications. Those that didn't burn up had to have the aluminum wiring removed to be replaced with copper.

That was a few decades ago. It was never tried again in a locomotive.

[popper]

I did the estimate for the ceiling lighting in KCI airport. We didn't get the contract. Company that did was kicked off and we got to replace the Aluminum wiring, cost plus 10%. 350 and 500W mercury lamps in each corner of the cast ceiling. Al wiring cracks when bent sharp and expands - causing insulation failure. One solution in residential is to pigtail the Al with Cu at any switch or receptacle. Kapton insulated Al is a NO-NO. The elec code was written by insurance company and exists for a reason. Oh, beware of big box store breakers!

[kerplode]

All this back and forth...Poor OP still can't cook his breakfast, lol!

I think the obvious best answer is to connect the stove to four 10A circuits wired in parallel...

[Battis]

All is good. The stove was delivered and set up, had it all checked out professionally (wiring, breaker) and everything is great. The only thing that annoyed me was that to use the air fryer, we had to set it up with WiFi. Set it up, then bypassed it and it works manually without WiFi.
It was easier buying a car than a stove.
Thanks for the replies.

[BD]

It is the basic design of the Feral Pacific breakers that is dangerous. They still account for something like 3,000 home fires per year in the US. While I certainly wouldn't be as nervous in a concrete and steel building, an electrical fire would still ruin your day, (week, and month).

[Hannibal]

It is the basic design of the Feral Pacific breakers that is dangerous. They still account for something like 3,000 home fires per year in the US. While I certainly wouldn't be as nervous in a concrete and steel building, an electrical fire would still ruin your day, (week, and month).

Can you provide a reference for that figure? I know FP breakers are often viewed as dangerous and perhaps rightly so but I like to know my opinions are based on verified facts.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, that's not my intent at all. I'd really like to see an information source is my motivation.

[MUSTANG]

All is good. The stove was delivered and set up, had it all checked out professionally (wiring, breaker) and everything is great. The only thing that annoyed me was that to use the air fryer, we had to set it up with WiFi. Set it up, then bypassed it and it works manually without WiFi.
It was easier buying a car than a stove.
Thanks for the replies.

When our Electric Range destroyed itself due to Main Line Power Surge - We replaced it with a Canadian Built Propane stove because we could not get an Electric, Natural Gas, or Propane Stove that was "USofA" that was not California Compliant. California Compliant inevitably puts all sorts of California Mandated features and controls into it that are not user friendly or controllable; or downright dangerous in an environment that can get to minus 35 Fahrenheit in the Winter and the power goes out.