Table top lathe recommendations??

[trails4u]

So...I've been chewing on this for a while now, and I think it's time to get into a table top lathe. Uses, for now, would primarily be for brass forming (thinning rims, bases, etc.) but at the same time, I'd like to have something substantial and accurate enough that I could take on small machining projects either for my own use or as a service to others in the future. I don't see barrel work in my future, so don't need a super long bed....I was thinking a 7x12 or 7x14 size machine.

Anyone have experiences...recommendations?

Thanks! Trails...

[rbuck351]

I started with a 7x10 but found the working space to be too limited. I bought a 14 in. bed and am glad I went with the 14". I did have to do a bit of filing/shimming on the bottom of the head stock and tail stock to get it to align properly with the bed but I'm quite happy with it now. It's plenty accurate for brass forming, neck and rim thinning and such.

[country gent]

I have a 7x10 harbor freight lathe. It is good for small odds and ends work, but the small spindle bore and short bed are limiting to what can be done. Any part past the chuck a drill chuck and drill really eat up the 10" bed quick. If you have room look for a 20" bed.

For small work like modifying and prepping brass, polishing small parts, making small parts. they are good but limited. The problem is as your skills and experience grows so do the jobs. The longer bed allows for this growth.

Here the 7 X 10 sits more as I also now have a 12 X 40 and a 14 X 40 in the shop. They are bigger heavier machines. But at times the 7 X 10 is the machine of choice. The small machines like these are great for the hobbyist that dosnt have a lot of room they can go on a shelf when not needed.

When buying make sure what the dials read some read actual size some read movement ( metal removal is double what the dial show). What tooling comes with the machine tooling is a big cost of getting a machine up and running. Ie collets 4 law chuck drill chucks tool holders face plates indicators one really nice addition is a read out on x and y axis but its not necessary.

[jdgabbard]

I've read some good things about the Vevor 7x14 Lathes. Like all lathes, there are some things that are somewhat considered almost mandatory upgrades. But from what I understand they're an awesome product for their price. I've been considering breaking down and buying one.

[HWooldridge]

I started with a 10x24 and really could not see myself under that between centers, primarily because you have a tail stock to consider on many types of work. 12" to 14" isn't enough space to be practical for much beyond watch work. I'd rather have a small South Bend or Atlas rather than a newer import from Cheena or Taywon.

[uscra112]

Micro Mark has a good one for about $1500, and it's the only one that has true inch leadscrews and dials.

https://www.micromark.com/

I've been buying from MicroMark for 20 years or so - good folks that stand behind what they sell.

https://www.micromark.com/MicroLux-7x16-Mini-Lathe

[Hannibal]

You'll never wish you bought a smaller lathe. Just sayin'.

[uscra112]

You'll never wish you bought a smaller lathe. Just sayin'.

I'd hate to be doing the kind of work the O.P. mentioned on my South Bend 10" Heavy. In fact I bought a used Unimat 3 just so I wouldn't have to. Had I not lucked into the Unimat, I would have bought the MicroMark lathe I posted about.

[fg-machine]

This is mostly true up to a point . Where and when size should size be a concern ? That is all down to one's intended use .

My first lathe was a 24" swing monster lodge&Shipley bought to do a specific job . I didn't make a single complete part before I was telling myself that I need to get a smaller lathe if I ever want to do other work .

I think the sweet spot for most home shop types is going to be in the 9"-13" swing range for sheer versatility .
Everyone like to say you can do small work on a big lathe but you can't do big work on a small lathe .
Yes , but try turning something smaller then 1/4" on a 16" swing lathe with a 200# Chuck and a 800 rpm top end .

I also believe that for nearly everyone bed lenght is going to be of way more use then swing dia , unless your buying for specific uses 18" is about as short as one should go ... look at all the mentions of running out of room for drills as an example.

[Hannibal]

I'd hate to be doing the kind of work the O.P. mentioned on my South Bend 10" Heavy. In fact I bought a used Unimat 3 just so I wouldn't have to. Had I not lucked into the Unimat, I would have bought the MicroMark lathe I posted about.

Funny you'd mention that specific lathe. That's exactly what I have.

It's not fast but neither am I. I'd not want a smaller lathe but I profile my own raw blanks and chamber through the headstock.

[uscra112]

Threading and chambering are about all I do on it anymore, and as I age out I do very little of that. I did mount the collet setup last month to make a small part that had to come out of 1" bar. But after I had it roughed out, and the 1/2" hole drilled through, I cut it off and brought it upstairs to finish on the Unimat. My back is so bad now that I can't stand in front of a machine tool for long.

[dverna]

Be patient and get a used one. Most are lightly used and go for half the cost of a new one.

I bought a Jet 9x20 years ago for $750 that retailed for $1500. The guy had used a it about two months and decided he wanted something bigger. IMO 20” between centers is the shortest I would go.

[georgerkahn]

Back in the early 1970s I splurged and bought a Unimat SL. Most folks suggested it is a toy and too small for serious work. I cannot list all the real serious work ;) this fantastic little machine has accomplished for me through the years! My thinking at the time -- which hasn't changed -- is for MY needs it is big enough to do 98-99% of my needs; the other 1 or 2%? I can over-pay machine shops with huge lathes many, many times for these projects -- and still be lots of money ahead! (As a side note I feel the same vis welders -- I'm happy with my oxi-acetlyene rig, and farm out the big stuff).
geo

[uscra112]

We had a regular on the ASSRA site who built an entire Sharps Borchardt action on a tabletop lathe/mill some years ago.

[country gent]

Everything on a big lathe is heavier and more work t move and handle The little 4" chuck is maybe 5 lbs the 16" chuck is over 100 lbs tail stocks are the same. Moving all that weight for only small parts is a tiring pain. Size the machine to what you want to do. One of the most used lathes in any shop is the speed lathes. A machine with a bigger spindle bore and 20" bed will co a lot a 6-8" swing with the 20" bed and 1 1/4 -1 3/8 spindle bore is a very handy size. The hardringe speed lathes are very nice machines to run very accurate very versatile and easy on the operator. Same with the small Harrisons tool room lathes. What Im saying is this my 7 X 10s tail stock is around 10 lbs, the 12 x 40s is around 40-50 lbs and the 14 X 40s is probably around 70-75 lbs. the difference between them over a days time is a bunch.

[uscra112]

Exactly.

I'm trying to think of anything in gunsmithing, save barrels, that needs more than maybe 16" center-to-center. If that.

[elmacgyver0]

At some point, you will want to work on barrels.
You may not think so, but it will happen.

[trails4u]

Anyone have personal experience with a Sieg, Wen, or the Central Machinery from Harbor Freight? They're all comparable in price....and all in the 7x14 or 7x16 range, which is where I think I need to be....for now.

[uscra112]

My only experience with Harbor Freight is that once you've taken delivery you're on your own. No parts, no service.

[trails4u]

Appreciate all the input guys.....

I'm leaning toward this: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4959 understanding that it's not big enough to do everything I might ever want to do, but small enough to be easy to work with for making obsolete brass, which is my primary need/business interest at this point. I'm guessing everything in this size/price range is comparable, and all made in China, but I'm just not in a position...yet...to spend thousands on a high-quality lathe, nor do I think I need to at this point to achieve my immediate end.

Hoping to hear from folks with first-hand experience with any of these models....particularly if there are any I need to just stay away from!

Appreciate you guys.... One thing I love about this place....so much experience here and folks willing to share it!

[country gent]

I have a central machine 7 x 10" basically the same machine its okay, with the longer bed it will do a lot and make set ups easier. Turning mine on is a little more procedure than the bigger machines. It could stand a little more power but Im used to bigger machines. They usually come with a tool package also chuck a few cutters drill chuck live center. You will want to pick up a 6" bench grinder for sharping tools. For working brass and what your wanting to do HSS cobalt is cheaper easier to sharpen and a good choice. You dont need special wheels to sharpen it either.

These machines are light 2 guys can carry them in. I believe my 7 x 10 is 75 lbs. When I had my shop moved, both lathes the mill and surface grinder it was a all day event and 800.00. When we moved the big drill in it was a semi fork lift and skates 1600.00. Being able to carry set p and move around is a big plus. This didnt include wiring them up.

I believe youll be happy with the machine as you learn and gain experience you may want to upgrade or add a mill but this machine will do what you want. You will want to add an indicator and magnetic base.

[uscra112]

I've bought a number of tooling items from LittleMachineShop. All first quality.

[uscra112]

One thing that is a must for a beginner - a quick-change toolpost. The old-fashioned flat turret that lathe comes with is a PITA to use, because you have to shim your tools to get them at the right height. The fellow I bought my Unimat from had been driven to distraction by this, and practically gave the machine away. I know how to do it, but can't be bothered. A German company sold a suitably sized quick-change, and now I'm a happy camper. A simple turn of a knob adjusts the height. If you've never run a lathe before, a tutorial on tool geometry is required reading before you ever try to cut anything. Ought to be plenty on-line.

[Hannibal]

One thing that is a must for a beginner - a quick-change toolpost. The old-fashioned flat turret that lathe comes with is a PITA to use, because you have to shim your tools to get them at the right height. The fellow I bought my Unimat from had been driven to distraction by this, and practically gave the machine away. I know how to do it, but can't be bothered. A German company sold a suitably sized quick-change, and now I'm a happy camper. A simple turn of a knob adjusts the height. If you've never run a lathe before, a tutorial on tool geometry is required reading before you ever try to cut anything. Ought to be plenty on-line.

Interesting perspective. I intentionally started out doing everything with hand tools. Files. Hacksaws. Rasps. Chisels. Sandpaper on wood blocks.

Reason being power tools do NOT make you a better craftsman. They just allow you to screw things up a whole lot quicker.

If you don't understand what you're doing, spending money on equipment will never fix that.

I used a lantern tool post and HSS bits for a long time.

It amazes me. It's a wonder anyone ever made anything a century or 2 ago without YouTube. Good thing someone Googled gunpowder. Otherwise we'd still be throwing rocks and sharp sticks an one another.

[uscra112]

One factoid I learned from a dozen years in the machine tool industry: The machine tool extends the reach of the craftsman by building the skill into the tool.

Imagine launching a payload to orbit. or building the power grid, or even making a usable automobile, with only hand tools.

The machine tool industry is small, almost minute compared to the oil industry, the steel industry, or Amazon and Walmart, but everything, EVERYTHING we depend on every day starts with machine tools. We owe our entire technology to the English and Scots pioneers, Maudslay, Murray, Bramah, Wilkinson, Whitworth, Fox and many others who created the industrial revolution by inventing precision measurement and "machines that make machines".

[Hannibal]

One factoid I learned from a dozen years in the machine tool industry: The machine tool extends the reach of the craftsman by building the skill into the tool.

Imagine launching a payload to orbit. or building the power grid, or even making a usable automobile, with only hand tools.

The machine tool industry is small, almost minute compared to the oil industry, the steel industry, or Amazon and Walmart, but everything, EVERYTHING we depend on every day starts with machine tools. We owe our entire technology to the English and Scots pioneers, Maudslay, Murray, Bramah, Wilkinson, Whitworth, Fox and many others who created the industrial revolution by inventing precision measurement and "machines that make machines".

I understand your point. My point is that nothing can be built if the one attempting to do so does not understand the necessary skills.

You don't become a skilled auto mechanic by filling a big toolbox. You can change a bunch of parts really fast yet still never fix a thing except by chance.

[uscra112]

Which is why a beginner lathe hand needs to learn tool geometry first and foremost Time was, he learned it as an apprentice, later on he might read it in a book, if he could find one, but today he can take a short course at home, on the internet. Hateful as it may be socially, it is a heck of a tool for disseminating knowledge.

[country gent]

The old craftsmen tradesman viewed their hand tools as precision tools. In the early times machines were made in house not bought. The skill of filing hand sawing chiseling scraping are dying out now. These skills are important to the craftsman. Ive done a lot of work with the old turret holders and lantern holders, They will do the job but may have more fiddling around to get tooling to be where you want it. With the old square turret style holders once you decide on a tool size shim it up to them. I have aloeis tooling on my big lathes but the mini has the square turret on it, I havent got around to making a tool holder and block for it yet.

A big plus for a beginner is one of the night classes in machine trades or a mentor to offer guidance on the how to. HSS cobalt is probably the best to start out with its very forgiving. Also the blank can be ground to turning facing forms cut offs. Learning to sharpen tools and drills is a big start. Every old tool maker machinists box has a big bow of used bits in it that they have been grinding regrinding or saving for years. In my box there are these tools one of which are a set of grooving tools in widths of .030, .060, .090, .125 and .187 for cutting o ring grooves and snap ring grooves. also a bunch of threading tools with various offsets and widths.

Starting out can be daunting but with a mentor and or training it is a lot easier. I have helped some on this sight and have several in the area here I help with information. Knowledge is one of the few things you can give away and keep at the same time.

[trails4u]

I worked for years in an automotive machine shop, so have a pretty good understanding of the concepts and practical application...it's just been a few years (decades?). We ran pretty old machines, everything manual.....sharpened our own tooling, everything was manual measurement with dial indicators, etc., etc. so I'm comfortable with all that....just want to buy the best machine I can in the price range that makes sense for what I'm doing in the foreseeable future. Just an early warning....same questions are coming for a small mill and maybe an arbor press or small hydraulic press. :)

Thanks again for all the input.....great discussion!

[Hannibal]

The old craftsmen tradesman viewed their hand tools as precision tools. In the early times machines were made in house not bought. The skill of filing hand sawing chiseling scraping are dying out now. These skills are important to the craftsman. Ive done a lot of work with the old turret holders and lantern holders, They will do the job but may have more fiddling around to get tooling to be where you want it. With the old square turret style holders once you decide on a tool size shim it up to them. I have aloeis tooling on my big lathes but the mini has the square turret on it, I havent got around to making a tool holder and block for it yet.

A big plus for a beginner is one of the night classes in machine trades or a mentor to offer guidance on the how to. HSS cobalt is probably the best to start out with its very forgiving. Also the blank can be ground to turning facing forms cut offs. Learning to sharpen tools and drills is a big start. Every old tool maker machinists box has a big bow of used bits in it that they have been grinding regrinding or saving for years. In my box there are these tools one of which are a set of grooving tools in widths of .030, .060, .090, .125 and .187 for cutting o ring grooves and snap ring grooves. also a bunch of threading tools with various offsets and widths.

Starting out can be daunting but with a mentor and or training it is a lot easier. I have helped some on this sight and have several in the area here I help with information. Knowledge is one of the few things you can give away and keep at the same time.

You are able to communicate the things I was trying to convey much better than I have.

I've not had a particularly good day and thus I'm a bit short on eloquence.

You nailed it.

[fg-machine]

One piece of advice I always give is don't buy anything till you are absolutely sure you need it .
I can probably dig threw my tool boxes and find 10k in wasted money .

Something one always hears is it takes a lot of skill to be a good machinist , true but skills are learned over time .
A person with just a little intelligence and no skill can still be a good machinist if they stop every now and then to use the brain in thier head .

[uscra112]

Ironically, for over 150 years the accuracy of machine tools was entirely dependent on skilled craftsmen using hand tools. "Scraper hands" who could skim the high spots off the rough machined castings to bring the slides into what we called "straight, flat, square and parallel". It was a bit of an art, and it's dying out. I worked for C.O.Hoffacker for a while, and watched them true up the alignments of the deVliegs, Bullards, and other machines we rebuilt. Learned how it was done, but I never got good at actually doing it. (Mainly because that wasn't my job, I was a sales engineer and contract administrator.) For one thing it took quite a bit of arm strength, even using the power-scraper tools we had. Today, the machine structures don't have to be all that accurate. The computer is taught to map the errors, and corrects for them as it goes.

[uscra112]

When it comes to looking for a benchtop mill, if that's your direction, ask me about mine. I'll have a lot to say, almost none of it good. (It was meant to be replaced with a Bridgeport, but that never happened.) I can at least help you avoid some pitfalls.

[trails4u]

Ironically, for over 150 years the accuracy of machine tools was entirely dependent on skilled craftsmen using hand tools. "Scraper hands" who could skim the high spots off the rough machined castings to bring the slides into what we called "straight, flat, square and parallel". It was a bit of an art, and it's dying out. I worked for C.O.Hoffacker for a while, and watched them true up the alignments of the deVliegs, Bullards, and other machines we rebuilt. Learned how it was done, but I never got good at actually doing it. (Mainly because that wasn't my job, I was a sales engineer and contract administrator.) For one thing it took quite a bit of arm strength, even using the power-scraper tools we had. Today, the machine structures don't have to be all that accurate. The computer is taught to map the errors, and corrects for them as it goes.

Not quite that old school....but we did have a grinding stone explode once on a surface grinder...probably a 2.5x12ft bed with I believe a 12 or 14" cutting stone. Created quite a stir and needless to say the machine had to be re-set, leveled and the guides re-aligned and ground true again before put back into service. The old man whom I thought just build cylinder heads schooled us youngsters for a few days.....he KNEW machine and toolmaking.

[uscra112]

I saw that happen once. Scary. Wasn't a machine I had anything to do with, thankfully.

[15meter]

Don't discount the used bench top lathes. I've got a 40's vintage South Bend 9x24 that was bought primarily to do rifle brass. It has served me well. they pop up occasionally on Craigslist.

Only advice if you go this route is to get a collet chuck for it. A collet chuck holds the brass better then a three jaw chuck.

And I've got a soft spot for old cast iron machines.

[trails4u]

I saw that happen once. Scary. Wasn't a machine I had anything to do with, thankfully.

Yeah....I was running it, surfacing a cylinder head. Still not sure how I made it through that day with all my fingers. The guy I was working for at the time was a cheap SOB...so all of our stones, cutters, etc. were beyond worn out before he would replace them. Same guy that wouldn't heat the shop at night...so we all spent the first hour of our shifts every morning with our mics on top of the hot tank trying to get them up to temp so they'd read true to standards. [smilie=b:

[country gent]

Once those guys got the surface wear mapped out they started with a 4" grinder before the scrapper. Here your plates and straight edges are the limit to the accuracy. The hand scrapped surface is a real thing of beauty when done. To many try to use the stone to make changes and the pattern isnt there. That pattern of the hills and valleys is not just accurate it also holds oil reducing wear. Flaking is another real art.

[uscra112]

At Hoffacker they'd leave the surface grinder tables cycling back and forth all night, just to keep the machine at a stable temperature for the morning.

If you want to get deep into it, try to find a copy of Wayne R. Moore's book The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy. Not a lot were printed, and they are dear today, but there isn't much about machine tool accuracy measurement and scraping that he didn't cover.

[uscra112]

The $64 question: Who knows how to make a perfectly flat surface plate using nothing but a scraper, red lead, and Prussiann blue?

[trails4u]

At Hoffacker they'd leave the surface grinder tables cycling back and forth all night, just to keep the machine at a stable temperature for the morning.

If you want to get deep into it, try to find a copy of Wayne R. Moore's book The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy. Not a lot were printed, and they are dear today, but there isn't much about machine tool accuracy measurement and scraping that he didn't cover.

Would you believe you can find it and download it as a .pdf for free??

https://ia800104.us.archive.org/20/items/FoundationsOfMechanicalAccuracy/Foundations_of_Mechanical_Accuracy.pdf

[uscra112]

Well, that's good. One seller on Alibris want $999 for a copy. I bought one myself about 1980. It's buried in a box somewhere, four moves later.

[M-Tecs]

At Hoffacker they'd leave the surface grinder tables cycling back and forth all night, just to keep the machine at a stable temperature for the morning.

If you want to get deep into it, try to find a copy of Wayne R. Moore's book The Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy. Not a lot were printed, and they are dear today, but there isn't much about machine tool accuracy measurement and scraping that he didn't cover.

free here https://archive.org/details/FoundationsOfMechanicalAccuracy/mode/2up

[uscra112]

Right. I just downloaded it in case mine has truly disappeared.

Moore Special Tool was such a national resource that when there was a possibility that it might be sold to a foreign buyer some years ago, the federal government nixed the deal. Moore was the only company that could make machine tools that were key to the nuclear weapons program. I've got two personal stories about Moore, but I'll save 'em until one of you buys me a beer.

[ulav8r]

I would buy you one, but then I would have to toss it since I don't drink, and I can't toss it that far.

[fg-machine]

The $64 question: Who knows how to make a perfectly flat surface plate using nothing but a scraper, red lead, and Prussiann blue?

You can't make a " single " perfectly flat all by itself .
You have to have a reference i.e. two surfaces , neither has to be perfectly flat when you start .
Precision flat surfaces are achieved by lapping not scraping .

There's a company down the road a ways from me , all they do is surface plates , cast iron and granite. Each and everyone is lapped to grade .

[ulav8r]

Have only used one of the cheap 8x18s for about 10 minutes but have looked at 7x10's at HF and Cummins. The 7x10's looked to be more substantial then the 8x18. For your stated use I think a 7x14 would be ideal. The Micromark may be a little better out of the box but is it worth nearly twice the price of that Vevor mentioned above? All of those mini lathes are made in China and will need the buyer to clean, adjust AND modify. Some tooling will have to be made to get the most usefulness from the machine. The short bed will make you need to be careful in selecting tailstock tooling (ie, don't buy the largest drill chuck that will fit, but the shortest that is just big enough). Depending on your budget you may have to make some tooling/accessories but that can be a good learning experience. If you buy all tooling ready made it will easily exceed the cost of the lathe. A good 115 pc set of drills will be $160 to $300+, and there are lots of other accessories needed. HSS and cobalt bits are desirable for brass as they can be easily ground to any shape needed. Would not want to grind a carbide insert to cut an extractor groove or rim thinning tool.

My first experience with a lathe? Used a war surplus Leblonde in the college physics lab, probably about a 12x36 after studying a Henry Ford Trade School text book to learn tool grinding and machine operation. Used it to remove the steps from a 7mm Mauser that a neighbor owned. That was in 1972. The sweetest lathe I have used was a Mazak 16" swing manual and the largest was a 18-20'swing CNC that would go to about 30" but it had chucks at both ends so it could machine one part on the headstock, then transfer that part to the tailstock for machining the other end and it had a toolchanger so it could do multiple turning and milling with live tooling. Used manual machines up to about 18"x12 feet. My current lathes are a 1956 SB Heavy 10, a Rockwell 10x36 and a Dalton TL which is a patternmakers lathe of about 6x20 size from the 1920's. Need a bench top for the same use as you and 14-16 inch SB with 6 feet between centers for cannon barrels but don't expect that to happen. Would also like to put an electronic leadscrew on the Dalton.

[GregLaROCHE]

I started with an inexpensive mini lathe. At first it was ok, but soon I wanted higher precision. I now have a full size lathe and rarely use the mini lathe. I’ve since come to learn that some top quality bench top lathes are available from Precision Mathews. https://www.precisionmatthews.com/
I think they are import machines, however, they come from Taiwan, where quality standards are higher than mainland China. Unfortunately, they are expensive.

[marvelshooter]

I am going to go against most of the advice here and suggest an old South Bend 9A. They are out there and turn up occasionally for sale. Make sure it is a 9A not B or C. The A model has the quick change gear box and feed clutch on the apron. The B and C models use change gears. The more tooling included the better and collets if possible.

[uscra112]

Taiwan is no guarantee. In the late '70s I worked for a company that imported a copy of a Mori Seiki engine lathe made by (ready) the King Kong Iron Works on Taiwan, and it was crap. Flame hardened cast iron ways that were barely hardened at all is the key "feature" I remember best. It was cheap, and we sold about one a month while I was there. One really GOOD Asian machine we had was Korean - a Doosan #1-1/2 horizontal knee mill that was tops in every way. But there was no market for them. I never sold a single one. We also had a top quality bench lathe, about 10x30 like the ones we are talking about, that came from the mainland. My DC (i.e. fed-gov) rep sold one to the White House. (I thought he was pulling my leg, so I didn't enter the order for three weeks, until he called me asking where it was.) If I had had any sense back then I would have just taken one when the company went bankrupt owing me $30,000 in commissions.

[MrWolf]

Threading and chambering are about all I do on it anymore, and as I age out I do very little of that. I did mount the collet setup last month to make a small part that had to come out of 1" bar. But after I had it roughed out, and the 1/2" hole drilled through, I cut it off and brought it upstairs to finish on the Unimat. My back is so bad now that I can't stand in front of a machine tool for long.

That is why I haven't pursued getting a lathe. My back has gotten ridiculous. Pretty bad when you can't sit long enough to reload without being in pain which leads to mistakes. Fighting with insurance companies over MRI's is a lot of fun also.
Some very good advice with real life expectations. Thanks folks. I keep saying someday.
Ron

[Alstep]

I am going to go against most of the advice here and suggest an old South Bend 9A. They are out there and turn up occasionally for sale. Make sure it is a 9A not B or C. The A model has the quick change gear box and feed clutch on the apron. The B and C models use change gears. The more tooling included the better and collets if possible.


I'll second that thought. Especially the quick change gearbox. That's a must.
I've picked up a couple of SB lathes years ago, they are a nice versatile machine.
Also consider Clausing, Sheldon, Logan and Rockwell, they made nice machines as well.
Whatever you get, the tooling that comes with it is most important. Like chucks, collets, thread dial, tool holders, etc. Any machine is worthless without those basics.
Condition is a primary factor. Avoid anything that's abused and beat up.

[fixit]

From my viewpoint, many of bench lathes found are handicapped by limited headstock clearances! To my knowledge, all of the 7" lathes are limited to about .800" clearance, which ain't much! When I bought mine, I shopped the 8 x 16 lathes, many of which have a 1.5" headstock passage...... it's still chinesium, but it's definitely more to work with!

[uscra112]

The O.P. stated, and I quote:


So...I've been chewing on this for a while now, and I think it's time to get into a table top lathe. Uses, for now, would primarily be for brass forming (thinning rims, bases, etc.) but at the same time, I'd like to have something substantial and accurate enough that I could take on small machining projects either for my own use or as a service to others in the future. I don't see barrel work in my future, so don't need a super long bed....I was thinking a 7x12 or 7x14 size machine.

So spindle hole size is irrelevant to him.

I'll reiterate that I bought a tabletop lathe specifically so I wouldn't have to use my SB 10 Heavy for piddling little jobs like brass rework.

[country gent]

You can scrap a flat surface with out a master but you need 3 plates its a long drawn out process of scraping one plate to the others then switching the order and rotating the plates. A lot of the cast iron plates were ground then scrapped by hand to flatten them. I believe the goal was 28-30 points per inch. At the one shop when the big granite plate was resurfaced they then brought in the inspection plates from the floor and they were surfaced to the newly surfaced plate.

South bend, Atlas, logan, sheldon harrison and some others all made lathes in the smaller sizes. If you can find a used one they are good machines but are heavier than the newer minis. A used machine may have tooling with it and thats a big plus. Tool holders chucks collets centers lathe dogs cutters all add to the cost. The machine is cheap compared to the tooling.

[uscra112]

Right answer. That's how we bootstrapped our way into industrial precision 250 years ago.

[TCLouis]

What is the greatest diemeter that you plan to work with.

IF it has to go through the headstock then that marks your smallest lathe.
Through hole is a limiting but most important factor.

My SB thrughhole is "almost big enough" the SB heavy 10 is what I really should have bought.

Much reasearch before buying is IMPORTANT

[uscra112]

See Post #54. Which refers back to post #1.

[country gent]

The biggest draw back to the mini lathes is the bolt on chuck mount and lack of taper in the spindle. even a #1 morse taper would allow easy mounting and repeatability of fixtures.

I have used a 5c collet and collet stop with wilson case holder to re work cases . The set up is quick easy and repeatable.

Setting up a mini lathe strictly for case work I would make a collet holder for ER collets. turn od and mount then bore right to the spindle in place. then use the wilson case holders. Once mounted and bored on the spindle it would be very accurate and repeatable. While it could be made on the mini lathe it would take some time a bigger machine to rough it in and thread it would save a lot of time over the light passes the small machine will require.

[uscra112]

Bolt? Are we now talking about a Sherline or some such?

[country gent]

A lot of the small mini lathes have a flange attached to the spindle and 3-4 bolts that hold the chuck on with a alignment ring in the flange. but no taper in the spindle, this taper is extremely useful to mount tools and fixtures and is much more accurate than the chuck.

On my minii removing and replacing the chuck takes some indicating and tapping to get it right. The 3 jaw is good for about .005 as it came.

[uscra112]

My SB 10 Heavy has a 5C collet closer, and the only time it comes off is when I mount the 4-jaw for barrel work, so I'm all in favor of having a collet setup for ANY lathe. I've never used the 3-jaw it came with.

The MicroMark 7x16 I've mentioned has an MT3 spindle. Don't know about the others in that class. It also boasts true inch leadscrews.

Little Machine Shop has a 3C closer and collets for MT3 spindles. They also sell an ER chuck with an MT3 shank, and a flange mount version that probably fits their own mini lates, but ???? others. It does bolt on. And they sell MT3 collets, if you're that much of a masochist.

One niggle about my little Unimat Mk.3 desktop lathe is the peculiar 3-jaw chuck that takes 2 tommy-bars to operate. But it is very thin so it doesn't use up much of the available bed length, and the runout is minuscule.

[country gent]

I have one of those style chucks on my wood lathe I believe its a Nova.

My mini lathe is a central machinery from harbor freight 7 x 10. Other than polishing its seldom used much now. I am considering making a plate mount for the diamond plates and converting it to a slow speed lap grinder for honing tools. I may see if the end mill sharpening set up I have can be used on it also.

My big lathe is a Nardinni masconte 14 x 40 D-6 spindle mount with a 20mm-1mm taper in the head stock, #3 morse taper in the tail stock. This machine has the mounting for a tool post on the back of the cross feed also. digital read out, Has a feed shut off on x and y axis thats very handy. set the stops short it shuts off and the last little bit can be removed manually.. I have 5 c collets but no mount for this machine yet. 2 1/4" spindle bore, and bridge in the bed.spindle speeds from 40 - 2500 rpm. currently aloris tooling on it

Next is a 12 x 40 clausing knock off all manual with lever closer collets. This is a nice little machine but dosnt have the speed range of the Nardinni I think top spindle speed is 970 rpm I think its a #4 taper in the spindle and #3 in the tail stock. I have a 4" indicator that mounts on the bed for travel when needed. Basically a nice little basic machine. this one has a D-3 chuck mount. 1 1/2" spindle bore. also aloris tooling on it.

9 x 48 bridgeport end mill kurt 6" vise read out power feed Series 1 head with pulleys.

6 x 12 delta rockwell tool surface grinder.

leeland gifford 1/2" drill press 1 hp motor X Y table both head and table are on dovetails and adjust up and down. Table has a hydraulic jack to raise and lower ( table and X Y table are around 150 lbs). Threaded 1/2" chuck I converted this machine to a 3 pulley drive so plenty of speeds.

American Hole wizard radial arm drill 9" X 3' 5 hp spindle, power feeds, #4 taper in spindle, 20" x 28" universal table 8" vise for it. Just plugged in the holes in the universal table. made a heavy set of clamps and studs for it.

Roll in vertical cut off saw vise upgrade and power feed added. I also mounted a 24" scale along the back of the table so no measure needed to make a precise cut. I also made and fitted an oil mister to it so cuts are lubricated.

The Nardinni and radial arm run of a rotary converter the mill a static converter to get the 3 phase. The radial arm also has a transformer in line to get 440.

I would like to acquire a taper attachment for one of the lathes and possibly a small to med sized shaper and horizontal mill yet. Also a 10" 6 jaw chuck for the Narddinni.

[nuclearcricket]

I have a micro mart lathe I got a number of years ago, at that time it was $600. It was one of the big ones at the time, 7x14. I have added a QC tool post, tapered bearings in the head and just some general tweeks on the gibs and such. I have a 4"4jaw chuck, and ER 40 collet chuck and an ER 25 collet chuck. I have done a lot of work on mine and have made a lot of money with it. Steel over 2" in diameter is not the most fun thing to work with but it still works. The real hard part is parting off stuff that large. That is a long time consuming step to making parts. I have run plastics, steel, brass, aluminum, and stainless on my lathe and it does a nice job on all the projects I have asked it to do. Yes at times I would like a bit larger lathe but I get by with what I have.
For your first lathe, these small ones are hard to beat. You get to learn the basics, and then hone your skills. If you want at some time down the road to move up to a larger lathe then you have the skills to get up and running quickly.
Yes you can do small parts on a big lathe and can't do big things on a small lathe. LIttle things are just a bit easier on a small lathe.
One advantage I have found on the small lathes is the change gears for threading. I have found it very nice to be able to cut odd threads like 30 tpi for some of the lyman reloading stuff and 48 tpi for parts for antique rifle scopes. . My lathe with the ER 40 chuck installed.
Sam321604

[Rockindaddy]

Watch for trade school auctions. The lathes sell fairly reasonable. You might even get an American made machine and not have to settle for a new made China piece of junk! Table top lathe? Most small lathes can be mounted on a table. The companies would often offer a steel base for their lathes like South Bend. It is nice to have a steel base that was actually a storage cabinet to hold extra chucks, steady rest, tool heads, etc. Lathes made in Taiwan are better than china junk. If you locate a machine check the ways and carriage slop. Check the head for slop. Check if the head bearings are ball, roller, babbit, or bronze. Take inventory of accessories such as a 3-jaw, 4-jaw chuck and a collet set up. Steady rest, tailstock chuck, and tool holders. Look up Aloris tool holders and see how they work. Knowledge is power! Machinery auctions are great. Often times you can go and talk to an employee of a company. He will tell you before the auction what machine is good or what problem may exist with a machine. Don't be afraid of a 3-phase powered machine. Phase converters are easy to build. Good luck finding a machine.

[country gent]

Check the used equipment vendors in your area. Here there is Yoders machine, HGR, Mckeans, and T&S tool they haved a lot of used equipment and also tooling cutters and measuring tools.. While they normally deal in larger machines they also have smaller machines. They will buy out a shop and resell the equipment. Its amazing what these places have not just machines but tooling. Last time I was in yoders they had aloris and dorian tool posts and holders from A size up to D size or bigger. If I make an appointment to see a machine they have it out and wired up I can see it run and more important hear it running. Most hear have a separate area where you can walk thru with the tooling and smaller equipment. Do a search for used machine vendors in your area. Most have websites and you can view inventories. The other plus dealing with these is they normally have the means to load easily. Most machines are top heavy and awkward to move. My big drill tipped the gantries scales at 7500 pounds. WHen we moved itr B&B backed their trailer with the forklift on it in and yoders set the drill on the trailer in front of the lift. Strapped down and on the road in 45 mins.

[uscra112]

Lathes made in Taiwan are better than china junk.As I posted earlier, this is NOT necessarily so. Chinese makers will (and do) build to a price point, according to the desires of the US importer. Which is why a version from MicroMark will be a better machine than Harbor Freight, even though both machines came from the same factory. Ditto Taiwan.

I wish I hadn't been there when the Pacific Rim destroyed the American machine tool industry, but I was. Don't let me get started.

[Dave H]

I started out with a small lathe to play on soon moved up to a 12x36 Rockwell I then traded it in on a 10 ee Monarch which I still have and never will part with as a larger lathe I have a 18x60 Summit. I have a digital readout on the 10ee and my bridgeport type mill the mill has power feeds and air release drawbar.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My own personal Preference would be a Hardinge HLV Toolroom lathe. The reason why is simple, they actually do what you tell them to do. I have a Hardinge Chucker now that I can do everything but thread on. and it is limited when it comes to doing barrel work. I can do Pistol Barrels but none of my Rifle or Shotgun Barrels will fit thru the spindle. The Hardinge machines are among the best ever made and will do most of what I need to do. But if you are looking for a Gun Smithing Lathe you should be looking at least a 12x36 or 48' machine with a 2" Spindle Hole.

If all you are going to do is turn brass cases and make very small parts a nice Unimat would be a good way to go.

My .02

Randy

[uscra112]

So...I've been chewing on this for a while now, and I think it's time to get into a table top lathe. Uses, for now, would primarily be for brass forming (thinning rims, bases, etc.) but at the same time, I'd like to have something substantial and accurate enough that I could take on small machining projects either for my own use or as a service to others in the future. I don't see barrel work in my future, so don't need a super long bed....I was thinking a 7x12 or 7x14 size machine.

Anyone have experiences...recommendations?

Thanks! Trails...

This was the original post.

[justindad]

Does anybody know much about Taig?

https://taigtools.com/shop/

[ulav8r]

The Taig is a neat, small lathe that would be suitable for modifying brass. I bought a Taig headstock about 12 years ago to make a second op machine in a production process. It does have limitations but for benchtop use in a reloading setup it could be very useful.

A little study at https://www.cartertools.com/ could give you much more information.

[uscra112]

It has the virtue of being American made, but that wide flat dovetail bed design isn't the best for controlling cutting forces, and ultimately the position of the tool tip.

There's a reason why almost all lathes from the beginning of time have relied on the vee-and-flat bed way configuration.

The Taig will do for very light work such as brass modification, and small parts of aluminum or plastic, but not much more.

[trails4u]

Thanks to all for the comments and discussion. Haven't pulled the trigger yet, but leaning toward an 7x14 or 7x16 from littlemachineshop. I think for the foreseeable future either should do everything I need.

[country gent]

The taigs are a nice little machine and if I remember the feed hand wheel is at the end of the bed. While its a smaller dovetail its basically the same as the hardrige speed lathes and they are very accurate machines and have great life. A lot of jewelers use the taigs. I would mount it on a heavy board so when in use it can be clamped down. The Taig with a small digital readout on x and y would be very handy for case mods and small work

[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's a pic of my contribution to the Machine Tool Industry. Yes,,, I designed the Omni-Turn CNC Lathe! Here's a pic of the Prototype machine which is sitting in my shop right now. It used a Hardinge Speed Lathe as the basis, mounted at 75 Degrees for chip and coolant dispersal into a basket underneath. Also a 1 HP DC drive , Air Operated Collet Closer and Parts Catcher, all running off 110 Volt power.. The machine could be used as a Chucker or could be Bar Fed and would run unattended for as long as the bar of material held up. I had one job that I would start a Fresh Bar before lunch, tell it to do X number of repeats (at 5 parts per minute!) go to lunch, and come back 45 min later to watch the last part being made. At $6.25 a minute that was good money!!!

I designed the machine to be a "CNC Brown and Sharp Screw Machine" and I made a lot of money with it. There are about 30-40 of them out there and Carlson's Choke Tubes were originally made on 3 of these machines. As of last year, Carlson still had the machines in house. They sold for $29,995 in 1995, and were the most inexpensive Small CNC Lathes made, that actually worked like they were supposed to.

I should have made about $5Mil on that project based on the number of machines that were sold over the next 5 years (Over 5000) but Omni-Turn made a few changes in the way it was made to avoid any patents I would file, and gave me the finger. Still hate their guts!

Randy

321792

[Alex Johnson]

The Taig uses a small carriage mounted handwheel with a rack and pinion. They also have an option now for a powerfeed option with a leadscrew. Sherline lathes have the handwheels at the end of the bed.I own both of these and they are both very precise machines. I purchased 10 of the Taig lathes with the 5C headstocks last year for my University lab and these are very nice machines also.

[uscra112]

The Taig uses a small carriage mounted handwheel with a rack and pinion.

For the only Z-axis feed? How could you manage any precision along the Z-axis without a screw?

The Taigs look in the catalog like the bed is anodized aluminum. True or false?

[Dave H]

I settled on a Monarch 10EE for most of the work in my shop but I have a Summit 16x60 gap bed and I find I have a good setup ran the shop as a general machine and repair shop for about 20 years

[jdsingleshot]

If I were in the market for a small lathe, I'd strongly consider the Craftsman/Atlas 618. They get a lot of dissing for their small size and need to change the gear train for feeds and threading. But they are pretty rugged, accurate and consistent.

I learned lathe work on my dad's 618. Made lots of things on it and threaded a 26" long Mauser barrel on it. I removed the tailstock and placed the steady rest near the end of the ways. I made an expanding mandrel to tighten in the chamber, chucked the mandrel in a 4-jaw chuck, adjusted so the barrel ran true.

A lathe that just meets your current needs is constantly a barrier to anything that needs a larger lathe. Better to have a lathe that somewhat exceeds what you need.

I now have a Logan 922 and wish it were a little longer.

[uscra112]

The biggest knock on those Atlas/Sears lathes was that the gearing and pulleys and I think the carriage were a zinc alloy called Zamak. If kept antiseptically clean, they'd last a while...if not they wore out in a hurry. I wonder what they were thinking......other Atlas machines I have (horizontal mill and shaper) are much better made. Sears was notorious for demanding products built to their price; I suppose that might have had something to do with it.

[country gent]

On those little atlas and other change gear lathes the zmack cast gears were a plus they were meant to be the "weak" link as simple inexpensive part to replace when you got a little heavy and broke one. On quick change gear boxes there is a coupler with a shear pin. not bad to replace but more work the just buying a change gear. I suspect those gears saved a lot of machines from way more serious damage. That weak link was designed in to the machine to be a easy quick to replace fix when operators had an oopps, rather than the lead screw or feed in the carriage.

[Chill Wills]

I wonder what they were thinking......other Atlas machines I have (horizontal mill and shaper) are much better made.

You have an Atlas mill??? Those are very good for the size and what they are.

[uscra112]

Yup. Bought it from North Coast Machinery in Detroit many moons ago. Didn't use it much, and I'm ashamed to say that it never got set up again when I retired to Ohio in 2009. Still sitting on it's skid in my basement.

[jdsingleshot]

as for the Zamak, the first batches were inferior in the 1930s. Later ones pretty good. I've had four Atlas lathes and never had a change gear break in 50+ years.

[lead chucker]

I have a Sig C3 7x14 from little machine shop and like it. The only thing i would do different would be get the one that has the 500 watt motor mine has the 350 watt and stalls some times especial when threading bigger thread. I have made alot of things with it. Made small cannons, swaging dies for my 308 and 223. Lots of little tools and parts. Even made a cap maker for my black powder percussion rifles. So far no regrets. I also bought there 500 watt mini mill and realy like that.

[trails4u]

322280

Well....one of these is now on the way! :) Supposed to be here on the 23rd.... Have a few small projects already lined up...modifying an M-die for use in 8x50 Siamese....finishing some 35WCF brass....and I'm sure many, many more as my buddies study on the prospects. :)

[country gent]

Nice looking machine. You might consider changing out the tool holder for a quick change model. Not so much for the quick change but for the ability to adjust to center line with several sizes of tools.With that tool block if you grind on the top of the tool or use a different size you have to shim up to center.

What tools did it come with. a drill chuck, live center, and a few square HSS tools will be handy. I would recommend starting with HSS cobalt bits easier to sharpen and special grinding wheels arnt needed to sharpen or grind. Pick up 6 or so to start out. A fine grit stone for honing tools edges is very useful. A few #3 center drills will also be useful

What sizes are the tapers in head stock and tail stock? a 1/2" drill chuck will cover most of your needs . Now having the lathe bigger drills shanks can be turned down to fit the 1/2" chuck.

This machine should give fine service and be a big help in making cases and other odds and ends.

When working in brass a small gaurd may be a help. One can be made from lexan and a small magnetic base used to attach it.

[trails4u]

322292

countrygent: I picked up a basic tooling package to start with, along with a magnetic base dial indicator/test indicator set with points.

322293

I know I'll need more as projects come along with greater complexity.....but feel like this should be a good start, and certainly enough to get me going with some basic brass conversions. Very much looking forward to getting started and re-learning what I'm sure I've forgotten in the 25+ years since I've run a lathe!

[country gent]

Youve got the basics in that kit I was recommending other than the HSS tool bits. Thats enough to get you thru most projects. Eventually a knurling tool would be a good addition. The next is a machinists hand book and or a few other books with the needed info in them. Something that gives the standards for different things like threads, fits, tapers and such. With the lathe you can make taper shanks chuck mounts and tooling as needed. When out and about the town pick up a short length of 1" copper pipe, this can be cut split and bent into soft jaws for the chuck.

[country gent]

If you need a base nut made or modified for the new tool post let me know.

[uscra112]

I needed a knurling tool to do some tiny adjuster nuts for a tang sight on my Unimat. This one works.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08JD1FBNV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Doesn't put stress on the spindle bearings or the cross slide screw.

[country gent]

Little Machine Shop offers a lot of tools in this size range . I made my knurling tool for my Nardinni and smaller lathe.

While he wont need it for working brass for other projects a oil dripper is nice to have, Not hard to make and will drip cutting oils on a tool or drill saving a hand for other things. I built one into my knurling tools hand wheel.

[lead chucker]

Trails4u Thats the one i wish i would have bought should serve you well once you get it tuned up. I also bought those kits. I have acquired a lot more since then. One thing i would recommend would be a good 4 jaw chuck and some good cobalt drill bits. One other thing is if you ever do a lot of polishing with polishing compound protect the way under the chuck especially Eventually it will start to ware over time while doing other projects. You wind that thing up and it will sling polishing compound all over the place

[uscra112]

I can't imagine spinning a polishing wheel in a lathe, but good advice if you ever do.

Related advice from an old-time machine tool rebuilder (me): Use a powerful vacuum to collect chips, and get a couple of 1" paint-brushes. Never use compressed air to clear chips. We used to refer to air guns as "the rebuilder's best friend", because of how they'd drive abrasive swarf into every critical nook and cranny. Get in the habit of keeping the machine as clean as you can. When I worked at Hoffacker the machine shop would cease all work at 3PM on Friday, and spend the last two hours of the day deep-cleaning every machine.

[lead chucker]

uacra112 I'm talking about when your work is still in the chuck and you are polishing it. I have never put a polishing wheel in the chuck. When you are making something that needs a real good fit once you get real close you can polish it so its a really nice fit. Maybe thats not the right way to do it but its how i do it.

[nuclearcricket]

Trails, the lathe I have is virtualy the same with a few small exceptions. I do have the same toolholder and was surprised to find out that you can swap tools and they are within .001". I found that out turning a bunch of small parts where I had to turn and cut off.Here is a link you need to book mark and keep handy, its a gear calculator for threads. https://littlemachineshop.com/reference/change_gears.php
Comes in very handy. For future consideration, a 4" 4 jaw chuck is a good investment. For my lathe I made a collet chuck to hold ER-40 collets. They come in very handy for holding stock and they have a fairly open range of sizes that a collet can hold. For these small lathes I have found that HSS or Cobalt lathe blanks are about the best. Both are easy to grind up and to keep sharp. A lathe is a very handy tool to have on hand. Give it a year and you will wonder how you got along without one.
Sam

[lead chucker]

I'm making another little cannon right now with mine. Lots of fun. You loose time when you play with the lathe, when you start its 7 pm next thing you know its 1:00 in the morning. Like the last post said once you have one how could you live with out one. Next is the mini mill then you are in business. Make round stuff with the lathe and square stuff with the mill then incorporate the two to make what you want.

[nuclearcricket]

LOL @ Lead chucker. Yes a mill is a nice addition. I got very lucky on a mill. I picked up a nice used G074 (https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-7-x-27-1-hp-mill-drill-with-stand/g0704) off of Craigs list at a price that was waaaaay too good to let go. It wasn't used hard or abused but does have a couple of issues. I will say this much, it is an accurate mill. I have done some small jobs on it and it did what I wanted. I kind of have a bit of an advantage being a retired toolmaker. When I left the work force, what ever was in my tool boxes came home with me. I have a lot of goodies. Buying tooling is getting pretty expensive any more but if you are a good shopper you can still find some things at good prices. Down side is a high percentage of the stuff is made off shore. That being said. The items I have added to my tooling collection have been of good quality. My Mill collets are from China, my rotary table I think was made in India. Maybe the finish on some of the stuff is not as nice as the US made items but it seems to work just as well. I have a German made boring/facing head that I paid more for than my mill. But its a very nice boring head. Even my rotary table is very nice and I got it new at a price that made it well worth while to purchase at the time. Endmills are a bit pricy but if you shop around you can find some good buys out there. Even my home working micrometers are from China but they have a good feel to them and are accurate.
The world of machining things is a fun and unique place to play around in. It is nice to think up a project that you want, draw it up and then turn it into something.
Something else you will need to look into is a source of materials. The one that I use is Onlinemetals.com. And there are others out there as well. this just happens to be the one I use and have been happy with their service over the years.
Happy chip making.
Sam

[country gent]

I use online metals a lot but I also got lucky when I bought my friends shop I got a few tons of cuts drops and stock all labeled as to what they are. There is a lot of 4140 pre hard tool steel and cold roll. Another to watch is shop auctions they will sell all the cuts drops and stock in one or 2 lots. Small machine shops in the area are a good source of small pieces also.

Some of the small mills are better than a gigger machine in that they are a bed mill and dont have as much table rock on long parts. The knew mills ( bridgeport style) can pick up .003-.005 just running the table over center in the opposite direction. The minis wont cut fast but with patience they get the job done. Most times a little careful sawing and you can cut way done on the amount of mill work. when making parts with shoulders we would rough saw them in with in .100 or so saved mill time.

[5090SS]

At some point, you will want to work on barrels.
You may not think so, but it will happen.

This is SO true!!

[country gent]

Throat size, bed length, swing, and even the machine base all determine how much can be done on a machine. a bigger throat is almost as good as a longer bed. A bigger foot print is much better for supporting the weight. On a lathe the weight is higher making for a taller center of gravity.

[trails4u]

Well....thought I'd follow up. Got lathe up and going and most of my tooling squared away, so went after my first small project this evening. I've converting 7x65R to 35wcf, and as part of that process need to thin the base of the parent case by about .004 to insure consistent, easy chambering and extraction.

So.....I turned a mandrel from barstock to around .358, and using a fairly obtuse insert in a live center, used that to center on the primer pocket while forcing the case neck slightly onto the mandrel. Much to my surprise, runout was minimal....and actually made for a pretty easy job to turn a few thousands off the base. I'm only pressing them slightly onto the mandrel (intentionally tapered), so they're easy enough to remove by hand.

323262

I think I might need to get away from the carbide inserts, or mess with tool geometry, etc. as I'm not getting a good finish at all on the steel. The brass finished really nice, but the steel not so much. Not really getting much chatter, but getting a birds nest as opposed to nice chips, and just not as nice a finish as I know is possible. It's been a lot of years....apparently NOT like riding a bike!

I will add.... I really like this setup, as it opens up the entire case for any work I might need to do. Outside neck turning, rim work, etc. I'll have to make a mandrel project by project, but I'm OK with that. I figure this one cost about 80c + about an hour of my time. And I expect I'll make them MUCH faster as I learn the machine, dial in the tooling, etc.

[uscra112]

Turn the case around. Make that mandrel long enough to extend to the bottom of the case, and turn a little pin at the end that will enter the flash hole, and a 60 degree center in the outer end. The end of the mandrel presses the case against the driver you've mounted in the chuck, on which you've turned a pin that enters the primer pocket. Now the mandrel can be a slip fit in the case mouth, so there's no problem separating it and the case. and everything will run true.

Some steels won't give you a nice finish no matter what you do. The stuff they make bolts from is particularly bad. I use 12L14 grade when I can - it machines almost like brass.

[vintovka]

I found two lathes are a must. A 6x18 atlas and a 14x40 enco works for me. The atlas was made by Craftsman in long ago and serves all my small needs from screw work to pistol barrels. Even at 50+ years old It is my most used. The 14x40 is for almost all long gun work. Must say that since i got it in late 80s the price has doubled +.

[uscra112]

........made for Craftsman [by Atlas].....

[country gent]

Pick up a 6 or 8" bench grinder. 36 -40 grit on one side for roughing and 80-100 on other side for finishing. Most of the hobby lathes are light to run carbide efficiently go to HSS cobalt with the grinder you can sharpen them your self to just what you want. The for what a insert with 2-4 cutting edges cost you can buy a 3" long HSS cobalt blank and sharpen it hundreds of times.
I made mine but look into the tangential tools. They give a very nice finish are easy to sharpen ( you only have to grind one face).
You might try this chuck a piece of round stock in the chuck with the compound cut a 60 point. then a live center with a pin you want as big a center in the pin as possible. Even better would be to pick up a cheap live center and modify the point to a long point .200 dia and roughly 3" long and use this to reach into flash hole/case head. When you set the point back up in the chuck a light cut trues it to 0 run out and your good to go.

The HSS cobalt will give you a much better finish with a chip breaker ground in it will break chips. With a fine Arkansas stone a fine radius can be ground to improve finish. The tangential tools with HSS cobalt really do a nice job. Another if your only taking a few ( .002-.004) is a shear tool. again with HSS cobalt. Most tangential tools can be set to do a shear cut also. The shear cutters finish when sharp and set up right is almost a mirror finish right from the machine.

[vintovka]

........made for Craftsman [by Atlas].....

Yes and parts are still available from Clausing last time i checked. Ebay also has lots of stuff too. Most serious users that have one won't part with it until they pass why most often found at estate sales. these are amazing machines if used properly with adequate patience. I think best part is buying a used one and rebuilding it. The experience is well worth the cost.

[nuclearcricket]

As stated above, HSS/Cobalt tolls will give you much better finish and service on these small lathes than the carbide insert tooling will. The one exception I have found to this is a small insert boring bar I have that I got from MSC a number of years ago when my lathe was new. The other exception is my internal threading tool, that is solid carbide and does a nice job but then that is low speed and light cuts.
I have done some work thining rims in the past. What I did was to turn a socket in a piece of aluminum that would just fit the case head and not quite as deep as the final thickness. turned a stepped plug to fit the case mouth with a center drillled hole. Used the tail stock center to hold things tight and used a cut off tool to just trim the rim thickness. ONce set its a matter of just feed in and out. Friction is enough to drive the case for that light of a cut.
Sam

[contender1]

I just found a "Logan" table top lathe.

What can anybody here tell me about them?

[country gent]

What size is it Uncle had a 6 X 24 that was a nice machine but he had very little tooling for it. Was change gears. 1 / ? 12 threaded spindle, small spindle bore. #1 taper in tail stock. finding centers chucks drills with # 1 MT is getting harder. Logans are a good machine and accurate if still in good shape. They were nice solid well ribbed castings.

[trails4u]

I'm loving all the input and ideas! Unfortunately, spring has sprung pretty early around here, so I've been buried with pasture/garden/greenhouse chores and not getting much fun time. :( I've got some small projects lined up....just need to find the time.....sigh....

[jdsingleshot]

Eleven inch and up Logans have a much bigger spindle bore than an Atlas. I have used 6" and 10" Atlases and they did all I needed. But now I have an 11" Logan with a quick-change gear box and like it very much.

[country gent]

The Logans were good solid machines. The ribbing and supports in the casting carried thru to their small machines. Sheldons were also a nice machine. Monarachs were considered the top. They had some options that were handy in a shop. They were also a heavier machine. Clausings , south bend, White, american, Hendi, and some others were also good machines. Finding a machine is the hard part. I have a nardinni 14/18 X 40 lathe. and a 12 X 40 both are free standing machines though.

As I have said in the past get all the tooling you can with the machine. The older machines are getting harder to find tooling for and its easier to get what they have for the machine. Tooling is the biggest cost of the machine. chucks collets face plates dogs tool holders drill chucks drills cutters and such all add up.

[HWooldridge]

I started my lathe journey with a ca. 1946 10x24 Sheldon that had been lengthened to allow the tailstock to hang another foot off the back of the bed. The modification was done in the old Kelly AFB tool shop back in the 60's by master toolmakers, and looked like it had come from the factory that way so was quite usable for longer stock. Sheldon machines were nice because they carried all of the drive motor and mechanism under the machine inside the cabinet, so were easy to move around. It also came factory equipped for 120v, which was great for my original garage setup.

A friend of mine owned a Logan 12x36 and it was a good tight machine. I believe you can still get parts for them, although nothing is cheap. I certainly would not walk away from one if the price was right and it wasn't clapped out.

[country gent]

The problem isnt always the parts. Its tracking down who know has the rights and owns the company. Some of these machine companies have been bought out many times and tracking down who to contact is the job.

We repaired a od Grinder made by brown and sharp at campbells. This machine was late 40s early 50s. We contacted B&S parts were available they have the drawings on file, 6 month leade time while they made the part. This is what you run into with older machines. When the Y axis encoder on my lathes readout went out it was another $150.00 for the adapter from new encoder to old read out. This machine was new in 1985. Then the power supply went ended up being 1000.00 repair. Moving a machine can disrupt things and it may take awhile for it to settle in.

[farmbif]

somewhere on the internet is a video of a man who designed and built guns for Remington and they show him in his home shop where he created many guns and all he used was a south bend 9" lathe.
if anyone knows of a reasonably priced cross slide for an atlas 618/craftsman 101 I need one.

[country gent]

Watch e bay and your local used machine dealers, actually it might pay to stop in and talk to them have measurements in hand they may be able to tell you what will interchange or be modified to fit.
Is your cross slide wore out or missing? Wore out can be rebuilt with a new screw and gibs with some hand work. Missing may be more than just cross slide to include compound screw gibs and screws. A new gib can be fitted in by hand and the existing brought back.
A lot of the machine dealers dont list parts on their web sites. Finding a new cross slide it will still require some hand fitting. Also you might have to take a complete carriage as they may not want to break it up.

The others to check with are keith rucker ( vintage machine) and MrPete222 or tubalcain. I believe monarch bought atlas years ago a call to them might get an idea on a new part.

[farmbif]

it the top tool slide/cross slide. it was missing when I got the lathe years ago so even if I did make one I'm missing the hardware. the only reason I bought it is along with the lathe there was every possible accessory that craftsman offered most items still in original boxes. ive been looking on and off for years now. this discussion got me thinking I ought to try and put this old lathe back to work. I guess I'm going to have to save my pennies and pony up if I'm ever going to put this back into service. there are no a couple on eBay starting at $200. ive seen on eBay that just the steady rest and milling adapter could be worth $250 each or more. yes I saw mr Pete's videos and would attempt making one but I no longer have a mill

[country gent]

If your missing the compound ( the top slide that rotates and the tool post mounts in) Ive seen lathes with the compound removed and a block of steel mounted to hold the tool post, makes a solider mount. Makes some operations harder. We had one lathe that had 2 of these blocks front and back of the cross slide the front was a turret the back had an cut off tool mounted upside down. A piece of round stock could be machined 2 holes to bolt down a stud to locate and a threaded hole in center to mount the tool holder. WOuld limit capacity some and thickness would be tricky as tool post would need to be known.

My nardinni has the tee slots on back of cross slide. Ive thought about a block on the back for a cut off blade.

How about a pic or 2 of what you have. Make it easier to give help and or advice

[farmbif]

hope pictures show up one is the atlas 618 with missing compound parts and the other is a south end 9c that I'm starting to work on putting back to work with a new motor and belt and lots of elbow grease to remove the rust preventatives ive kept it covered with.
on eBay I can get the parts to complete the 618 but it will probably be $250-$300. is it worth it?

[country gent]

I would say it is worth fixing. They are a popular sought after machine. My uncle had a 6 X 24 sheldon flat belt and change gears the chuck was a threaded 1" jacobs drill chuck did have the full set of change gears and dead center, At his estate auction it brought $2000.00. I figured in the 750-900 range.

As I said the bigger issue will be fitting the parts once you find them this is all hand scrapping to fit the new cross slide and then the gib.

On the South Bend you will need a laced belt probably 2" wide. One thing that was done when converting to electric motor was to add a gear box or transmission. A small 3 or4 speed lawn mower gear box might work this will also give reverse, or the older variable drive might work. This would give more speeds with out changing belts.

What size motor are you putting on it? If you dont go with a transmission then you want a reversible motor and a reversing switch. Most of them had a barrel switch one way was forward the other reverse.

[farmbif]

the motor and belt are no problem ive probably got a dozen 1//3 to 1 hp motors and a couple totes of switches, motor starters and reversing switches and lots of belting and lacing stuff. now wiring a single phase motor to a drum switch is the part that will give me the challenge. I have yet to locate the motors and wiring for the other two south bends and the atlas yet. but they are here on the property somewhere.
maybe I should put some stuff on swapping and selling to raise funds to save the atlas
ive got an instant reversing 1/2 hp 1 phase I will most likely put on the south bend pulley post or counter shaft motor mount or whatever its called

[country gent]

Sounds like a plan.

Im currently working on a set of machine skates and then a toe Jack, I want to do a little rearrange in my shop and will need them to move the machines around. Then I need to get the small lathe fixed up with a new stand and the gear box levers fixed. My lightest machine is 600 lbs the heaviest is 7500 lbs. My work bench is 500 lbs LOL. With the rearrange Ive got one power drop that will need to be moved.

[contender1]

Well, that Logan lathe I was asking about,, has a new home. It's a model 400. Small but solid. It's had a few little modifications since it was new,, (new motor,, and it's mounted differently than the original way,) but it runs just fine.