New experiment why my handi rifle

[Wolfdog91]

So y'all know about my little H&R ultra varmint and how it's .... finicky. Sent me down a deep little rabbit hole when it comes to these guns , manged to get her consistently shooting 1.5" groups all day and I had a lot of people who mess with these things constantly that that was a pretty decent accomplishment. Deal was that was off of a rear bag and front rest.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231211/ecfabd09d48944e599c57bdb7fa5c59b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231211/9814b5eb62bf10e7b08d54be4707eb2b.jpg
7/10 times i shoot off a bipod and these things are just notorious for hating being shot off a bipod . The deal is the best accuracy for these comes from either resing it right next to the trigger Gaurd or off hand shooting. Now I have a theory behind that but that's bit of a long post .
Anyhow seems resting it further up the for arm is bad closer to the trigger Gaurd is good. With that being said , where is the the swivel stud where you usually mount you bipod? Right at the end up the for arm, THE WORST PLACE YOU WANT TO REST YOU GUN ! So why no move it closer to the trigger Gaurd ? Well order a bunch of sling swivel studs a while back and decided why not. Go one and and with a little eye balling I got it places so your bipod will be as far back as possible and still let the gun open up completely and now
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231211/41466f194876797f878dc49e56542585.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231211/3ec2954291389fc034fe7dfe7586db48.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231211/d20cb323996bd52f8953413342b542e2.jpg
And I got this new little chineseum bipod that can do a 45 and a 90 so I'm really curious what this will do as far as accuracy[emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Tatume]

Interesting post, and nice to see your rifle. I've just recently gotten mine out of the safe and I'm looking for my stash of 270 Winchester cases. If I don't find them soon I'll load some ammo for one of the other barrels. Keep up the good work; these are nice rifles.

[GhostHawk]

I have more of these than I know what to do with. Only one has a bipod, and it is there just for looks.

At the range my hand as close to the trigger as I can get it, with my hand resting on a low bag.

That or offhand is what works best for me. I'd say your on the right track.

.357 mag and .444marlin are my most accurate with the .223 in the middle of the pack.
Both of those wear 4x12 scopes. The increased power at 100 is pretty handy, and really helps with nice tight groups.

Both are on a steady diet of cast boolits and small amounts of Red Dot powder.

[rbuck351]

I found a couple of things that work for me. I don't use a bipod and I support the gun on the action instead of the forearm. Also I have modified the forearm. I remove the plastic piece on the back of the forearm and drilled a hole into the forearm between the plastic piece and the forearm. I put a fairly stiff spring in the hole and reinstalled the plastic piece leaving the plastic piece with a slight gap from the forearm. I also opened the forearm screw hole a bit and do not completely tighten the forearm screw. This allows the barrel to have a consistent pressure against the action. I was getting about a 2" vertical string of shots as the barrel warmed. This cured the vertical stringing.

[725]

Eager to hear your results with this kind of bi-pod set up. I love my H&R but it can be frustrating. Hope you find success, 'cause I'd like to improve mine as much as I can.

[WILCO]

Curious as to caliber?

[tward]

The Hornet can be a bugger, small cases, varying case capacity and small charge weight add in the handi rifle and you’re juggling 4 or 5 balls. I believe you’re a tinkerer and will eventually find a magic combo. Just a thought, but what is twist rate, I believe there were several rates used during their production. Some were 1-16 and some 1-12 you might get better accuracy with heavier bullets.
PS had a chance to try any of the boolits I sent?
Tim

[firefly1957]

When I was first experimenting with a old set of .224 bullet swage dies I did not want to shoot them from my Mini -14 . I really wanted a 16 or more inch barrel for my Contender in .223 rem . Talking to a gun shop owner he says we have this Rossi break open for $119 on sale I think for extra $20 or $30 I could of also got a 20 gauge barrel .

I bought it and did most of my experimenting with the gun it has a whip thin barrel and sometimes the shots would go wild other times they would go in to 3/4" at 100 yards . What I figured was happening is the action is not stiff enough and the amount of barrel support and placement of that support is critical. A couple years later I modified the gun and sleeved the barrel , the muzzle was threaded and a heavy electrical conduit slid over barrel a tapered nut was tightened and the barrel held stiffer . The wild shots are just as bad if the gun is not held the same each shot ,however light loads do shoot a lot closer to full power loads then they did with the gun unmodified .

[snipin101]

Good looking rifle. Looking forward to hearing how it works out moving the bipod back. I have on in .243 and have not shot it much since I have had it. I made up some hand loads and going to start seeing if I can make mine shoot, but seems like it's gonna rain every Sunday. That's my day to shoot lol. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231217/31a89db6ee31867599b4f5710227d8d9.jpg

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[Outer Rondacker]

Good looking rifle. Looking forward to hearing how it works out moving the bipod back. I have on in .243 and have not shot it much since I have had it. I made up some hand loads and going to start seeing if I can make mine shoot, but seems like it's gonna rain every Sunday. That's my day to shoot lol. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231217/31a89db6ee31867599b4f5710227d8d9.jpg

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

For some reason that rifle just does it for me. Sharp looking single you have there.

[Shawlerbrook]

Agreed ! Always been partial to the full stock Mannlicher look.

[snipin101]

Thanks for the compliments. It started life as a regular ultra. I got it from a coworker super cheap. I found the handguard online and fitted it. Then while walking around I found the Weaver k10 in a box from where the owner sent it to Weaver and had it reworked and then never installed it on a gun. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231217/b5b719f4251728518cf0a04ce0e2222f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231217/86ddb80d248a6826c048e33d7c17f27f.jpg

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[Fishoot]

Love your post Wolfie! Keep 'em comin'

[MT Gianni]

Just to share my accuracy improved when I put an o ring between the stock and the fore-end. I never found torque specs on the screws but tried to snug them equally.

[Hannibal]

Interesting topic. I have a Topper which is basically the same thing. It's currently a 20 gauge but once time allows I'm going to make at least 2 barrels from blanks. One a 7-30 Waters and the other a 22Hornet AI.

[snipin101]

I was thinking today while driving home about these rifles. It seems barrel harmonics on these can be a little crazy. I was wondering if anyone has ever tried a machined nice muzzle break like the ones from witt machine company on these guns? Adds a little extra weight out on the end and might change the harmonics for the better, or worse I dont know.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[Hannibal]

I was thinking today while driving home about these rifles. It seems barrel harmonics on these can be a little crazy. I was wondering if anyone has ever tried a machined nice muzzle break like the ones from witt machine company on these guns? Adds a little extra weight out on the end and might change the harmonics for the better, or worse I dont know.

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

I can't comment at this time since I have nothing but a 20 gauge barrel currently. I suspect any rifle caliber would shoot fine provided it's a decent barrel, correctly chambered and a bit of load development is done.

[Texas by God]

Curious as to caliber?

I think .223 because the load on the target says “24 grs of Tac.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dverna]

I had one in .22 Hornet and I could not get it to shoot well enough to justify keeping it. I hope you have it figured it out. Nice little guns.

[Kosh75287]

Just to share my accuracy improved when I put an o ring between the stock and the fore-end. I never found torque specs on the screws but tried to snug them equally.

That's an excellent point. I've tightened groups on NUMEROUS rifles with the judicious application of O-rings and rubber gasketing.

[Hannibal]

I had one in .22 Hornet and I could not get it to shoot well enough to justify keeping it. I hope you have it figured it out. Nice little guns.

Perhaps the twist rate wasn't fast enough for the loads you were shooting? Just a guess.

[barrabruce]

I bedded the stock in mine to the rear of the action with something like jb weld.
It helped heaps as it wasn’t a good fit and tightened it down some.

That helped and the rubber or rubber oring on the fore-end screw.

I hold it like I would shoot it with off hand on fore-end.

How is the lock up on it as well?

I shim mine with a piece of paper or coke can.

That fore-end spring idea sounds interesting.

[Wolfdog91]

So this was interesting, the Handi and it's quirks show themselves yet again. So same rear bag , different front rest situation, just some store bought ammo.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/33418c0b2e32624d6bf847e22d638bde.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/42294283b49996c7aabf6eb42b04ad09.jpg
Now after I got on paper I did not adjust my zero between targets, was really curious what would happen and !
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/ed479a2ce27368654010b9bf099dbc24.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/834b992ac2f8e809e0bcd29568df073b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/cb7bc65540c9864399262c21e623eb0b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/284dd2670c269ebf2f27fa257486a170.jpg

So the front bag did give a smaller group BUT look at the groups themselves, see this is something a lot of handi rifles do to the point a lot of handi nuts don't shoot more then two shot groups , I think it's weird but that's their thing. Anyhow it's pretty normal for you two shoot a three shot group, have two super close or touching and one off to the side.
Seems to be no real time or reason either it's just something most of these guns do.
Another interesting thing is the the fact the bipod group was high then the bag group. Personally I feel this is simply because of how the gun acts with this type of bipod


Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Hannibal]

So this was interesting, the Handi and it's quirks show themselves yet again. So same rear bag , different front rest situation, just some store bought ammo.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/33418c0b2e32624d6bf847e22d638bde.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/42294283b49996c7aabf6eb42b04ad09.jpg
Now after I got on paper I did not adjust my zero between targets, was really curious what would happen and !
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/ed479a2ce27368654010b9bf099dbc24.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/834b992ac2f8e809e0bcd29568df073b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/cb7bc65540c9864399262c21e623eb0b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/284dd2670c269ebf2f27fa257486a170.jpg

So the front bag did give a smaller group BUT look at the groups themselves, see this is something a lot of handi rifles do to the point a lot of handi nuts don't shoot more then two shot groups , I think it's weird but that's their thing. Anyhow it's pretty normal for you two shoot a three shot group, have two super close or touching and one off to the side.
Seems to be no real time or reason either it's just something most of these guns do.
Another interesting thing is the the fact the bipod group was high then the bag group. Personally I feel this is simply because of how the gun acts with this type of bipod


Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

Huh. That's basically chaos, no discernable pattern.

I can't offer any specific advice at this time as I plan to chamber 2 seperate barrels. One in .22Hornet, one in 7-30 Waters. I'll be very curious to see what I find out from this endeavor.

Meanwhile, that appears to be a solid rubber butt pad. I suggest checking to see if the length of pull fits you. If it's a bit short, try a Pachmeyer slip-on pad and see how that goes. If the length of pull is good, maybe remove the stock pad and put the Pachmeyer on just to see if that helps. The slip-on pads are cheap and fit.a bunch of different stocks.

EDIT - what is that you have wrapped around the butt stock in your photos? And why are you using tinted lenses in one set-up and nothing in the other?

[Gtek]

How tight is the hand guard fitment to front of receiver? Have you tried shimming between plastic and forearm up to the point you can barely put the guard on and makes pretty stiff open and close? I put some really good grease on barrel lug cut and cross pin and kept shimming until I had real trouble getting guard on, slight increase seen on mine.

[Wolfdog91]

Huh. That's basically chaos, no discernable pattern.

I can't offer any specific advice at this time as I plan to chamber 2 seperate barrels. One in .22Hornet, one in 7-30 Waters. I'll be very curious to see what I find out from this endeavor.

Meanwhile, that appears to be a solid rubber butt pad. I suggest checking to see if the length of pull fits you. If it's a bit short, try a Pachmeyer slip-on pad and see how that goes. If the length of pull is good, maybe remove the stock pad and put the Pachmeyer on just to see if that helps. The slip-on pads are cheap and fit.a bunch of different stocks.

EDIT - what is that you have wrapped around the butt stock in your photos? And why are you using tinted lenses in one set-up and nothing in the other?Strap on cheek riser very few rifles have stocks that are where I need for a good cheek weld so I have a few of these
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/58a588031c631eac7116c294e8247ca8.jpg
And had a the sun on me worse at one point so j threw my shades on. As far as length of pull I'm comfortable with this stock. Be nice if it has an adjustable cheek piece though

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

How tight is the hand guard fitment to front of receiver? Have you tried shimming between plastic and forearm up to the point you can barely put the guard on and makes pretty stiff open and close? I put some really good grease on barrel lug cut and cross pin and kept shimming until I had real trouble getting guard on, slight increase seen on mine.Couldn't give you a torque spec though that's something I'm planning on trying.thstbgring said I've done everything from bedding the for arm to free floating it to doing the o ring trick

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Hannibal]

Ok, well I've no personal experience with those cheek pads but I do know if anything can shift even a little it'll jack with your groups. And you're dealing with a break- action which means your having to break your position after every single shot.

The variables are working against you from the beginning.

If I were in your shoes, I'd pick a decent jacketed bullet, check your CBTO measurement and start establishing an accuracy baseline first.

Then if you still feeling an itch you want to scratch start anew with cast.

There really aren't any shortcuts. But there are plenty of places to confuse yourself with a good outing and then you wonder what went wrong when actually you just shot one or 2 abnormally good groups and thought those were typical. Without every realizing they were anomalies.

If you haven't already I'd suggest you get yourself a really accurate rifle and figure out just what size of groups you can shoot consistently to begin with. Over the period of several months. Perhaps you already have and already know.

[Wolfdog91]

Ok, well I've no personal experience with those cheek pads but I do know if anything can shift even a little it'll jack with your groups. And you're dealing with a break- action which means your having to break your position after every single shot.

The variables are working against you from the beginning.

If I were in your shoes, I'd pick a decent jacketed bullet, check your CBTO measurement and start establishing an accuracy baseline first.

Then if you still feeling an itch you want to scratch start anew with cast.

There really aren't any shortcuts. But there are plenty of places to confuse yourself with a good outing and then you wonder what went wrong when actually you just shot one or 2 abnormally good groups and thought those were typical. Without every realizing they were anomalies.

If you haven't already I'd suggest you get yourself a really accurate rifle and figure out just what size of groups you can shoot consistently to begin with. Over the period of several months. Perhaps you already have and already know.O i have a few that shoot half way decent lol
My MVP is pretty boringly accurate and still working on my SPR's load
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/3e3588bddd4c56135186226d7f94f38a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/bc0d4f4274e3a2af6cf2342e33b991dd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/e5566aabdd3ffe51d18c5d0c2723946f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/5e4582875a47bae07d1cfa90fb281f9a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/f5179c49728bf3c1c0e4b70b3c3f1a92.jpg

No real interest in short cuts or easy ways though , no real fun in that for me usually,need something that makes me pull my hair out and drives me a little crazy for a project.
Will say though kinda interesting because I got this little monstrosity I build from a old NEF versa pack .22lr and it shoot dime wise groups @50yd and ragged holes at 25ands less most days, Never seen much in the way of split groups though follow though is a bit more important.
Popping 12 ga hulls with it @ 100yd is pretty fun too
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/e514782e8b91675a443dbf88dae99f7c.jpg
As far as jacketed loads , well I can make that thing stay within 1.5" all day with a few jacked loads I cooked up for it. No spectacular but this what it was doing when I first go it
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/a94942eb78626e3398319913d8c47e8c.jpg

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

And some past notes with this rifle
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/ceffd196a6dc9159d00f35007c8d796e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/1af377479a8b2596def02c907a763585.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/34a3dd10cedec193c504a276c54549fd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/f11e6e4a32f35cf72bb58d0545c6bcbc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/04dfc4c567a81fd7d9d55e977618d802.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/eb39be01c4a5b359c1fdb0682a4e93dd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/75a00d25947767136cfa5cd251b06177.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/877ae8c9ce964a925ebe75b1dd067ba2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231219/7ac4b28d3797793953f4d24930cc7569.jpg

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

On a side note noticed my handi in .22hornet just plain prefers case bullets.
Quirky quirky little guns
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231220/d7ae14c51b21e9b72cb7bcd08c82fc11.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231220/c3e6be1f2b2cc39d60e2e49e735cc870.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231220/9f047a71634c5310b9abe48c6a3100f6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231220/5d5b42129e0df5b0a3e049a5b893190d.jpg

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Hannibal]

There's a reason why it likes cast better. My first 2 guesses would be the bore/throat diameter or the rate of twist.
3rd guess would be CBTO.

[gunnie]

Very, very interesting post.
I've only recently got into these little gems. Mainly as I wanted an SB2 45-70 for use in Pat Garrett side matches Single Action. Got my first one, loved it so bought another.
Then it dawned on me that these are no longer made so it would be a good idea to grab a couple for parts. Picked up one in 30-06 that had a loose action followed by one that was originally a 30-30. Around the same time I was given a bbl for the SB2 in 223.
Took both to my gunsmith with the intent of scrapping one action, fixing the other & fitting the 223 barrel as well.
The gunsmith tightened up the bbl/action of the 30-06 easy enough. As for the 30-30, apparently it had a dodgy chamber from new so the owner thought he'd improve the chamber to 30-30 AI to fix it. No dice! So another so-called gunsmith then cut the chamber to 307W, again it was a failure.
Well, my gunsmith did some head scratching, lots of measurements, chamber cast and sorted it out.
So now I have a 3-barrel SB2 combo in 223, 307/8W & 30-06. I'll stick with moderate cast loads for the 308 & 30-06 and work up a load for the 223.
Plus I have action spares & spare wood.

[Abert Rim]

Those are some very nice groups you have there! You deserve them for the serious work you are putting into your load experiments.

[dverna]

Perhaps the twist rate wasn't fast enough for the loads you were shooting? Just a guess.

I thought about this after reading Wolf's comment about people shooting 2 shot groups as these rifles seem to want to throw the third shot out of group.

I cannot recall how my gun performed shot to shot. But I am a shooter (well like to think so...LOL). I would have been shooting 5 shot groups. In fact, I have never used 3 shot groups as I know they cannot tell me what I want to know. I will stop after three shots if a load is terrible but have never intentionally shot less than 5 shots to work up a load.

Back then, I used a public range 35 miles away. No way I would waste my time to drive there, pay the range fee, lug everything to the firing line, and shoot 3 shot groups. I have never understood why people do that. But if these guns will only hold precision for 2 or 3 shots, I am glad I ditched mine. A gun like that is not something I would want.

Wolf, you will learn more about your loads if you put 5 shots into a group...and do it more than once. It is too easy to get fooled by a good three shot group. The three shot group seems to be gaining more traction, but it is not a good trend. Many rifle companies use it so they can make unrealistic claims about accuracy. I see more cast bullet shooters using 3 shot groups to "prove" they have a good load to avoid dealing with reality.

BTW, look at what guys like Larry Gibson post. Many times, he shows loads using 10 shot groups. I doubt I have ever seen him post a group with less than 5 shots. And I bet he shoots more than one group to "prove" a load.

You will be chasing your tail if you stay with three shot groups. Three shot groups will tell you if have a crappy load but will not tell you if you have a good load. The same applies to evaluating changes in your setup.

[jdsingleshot]

If you are a hunter, there's only one shot that matters. We don't shoot groups on game animals.

I've always shot 5-shot groups, but if I can count on the first shot to go where I want it, I'm content. I used to hunt woodchucks, and found there was rarely a reason for a second shot. Critter was dead or gone after the first.

[Wolfdog91]

I thought about this after reading Wolf's comment about people shooting 2 shot groups as these rifles seem to want to throw the third shot out of group.

I cannot recall how my gun performed shot to shot. But I am a shooter (well like to think so...LOL). I would have been shooting 5 shot groups. In fact, I have never used 3 shot groups as I know they cannot tell me what I want to know. I will stop after three shots if a load is terrible but have never intentionally shot less than 5 shots to work up a load.

Back then, I used a public range 35 miles away. No way I would waste my time to drive there, pay the range fee, lug everything to the firing line, and shoot 3 shot groups. I have never understood why people do that. But if these guns will only hold precision for 2 or 3 shots, I am glad I ditched mine. A gun like that is not something I would want.

Wolf, you will learn more about your loads if you put 5 shots into a group...and do it more than once. It is too easy to get fooled by a good three shot group. The three shot group seems to be gaining more traction, but it is not a good trend. Many rifle companies use it so they can make unrealistic claims about accuracy. I see more cast bullet shooters using 3 shot groups to "prove" they have a good load to avoid dealing with reality.

BTW, look at what guys like Larry Gibson post. Many times, he shows loads using 10 shot groups. I doubt I have ever seen him post a group with less than 5 shots. And I bet he shoots more than one group to "prove" a load.

You will be chasing your tail if you stay with three shot groups. Three shot groups will tell you if have a crappy load but will not tell you if you have a good load. The same applies to evaluating changes in your setup.

Almost always use 5 minimum as you can see in the second picture of the first post ,but due to the over whelming evidence that these are just plain different animals I made an exception. Also I get sick of all the smart A handi nuts who don't like to actually give any advice but love to jump down your throat when you do something out of their little rule book

[Wolfdog91]

There's a reason why it likes cast better. My first 2 guesses would be the bore/throat diameter or the rate of twist.
3rd guess would be CBTO.

1/9 twist I do custom CBTO for everything till I find what the gun likes the best I did do a chamber cast though because the chamber seems...off

[Hannibal]

1/9 twist I do custom CBTO for everything till I find what the gun likes the best I did do a chamber cast though because the chamber seems...off

Well share details. We can all potentially learn something here.

For instance, what is the freebore diameter and length?

You've mentioned that you have a borescope. Is the chamber concentric to the bore?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but there's a reason why it's finicky.

[Wolfdog91]

Well share details. We can all potentially learn something here.

For instance, what is the freebore diameter and length?

You've mentioned that you have a borescope. Is the chamber concentric to the bore?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but there's a reason why it's finicky.I actually haven't measured any one it, really dont have too much of a clue to be fair . Got the alloy for another gun remembered someone recommending I chamber cast this one ,poured it then was kinda just staring there looking at like " umm....now what" that being said since this thing fire forms short instead of the brass growing I figured the chamber is sloppy or something so will probably just pull up the standard SAMMI print for .223 and compare measurements. That being said I think I need a micrometer for that to be semi accurate
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231229/e7735add98e65bea51989aef481c296d.jpg

As for the bore cam if if go to the 5min mark here you'll be able to see a quick view of the bore. Obvious tooling marks and something else, not sure if it's one kinda stress cracking or what
https://youtu.be/xj6AJDUQieE?si=_zttzD1Sb6EfjYRE

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

Now after talking to a lot of people the main that could be giving me problems is the fact the barrels aren't stress relieved

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[barrabruce]

I just remembered, one of my sight base screws were long and it allowed the base to slop around a little.
In the end it worked loose and would group all over the place.
Fooled me for ages
The base is now affixed with two pack epoxy and the right length screws.

The head ache and anxiety have subsided.
But maybe a little greyer and balder for wear.

Best I could offer would be throw the barrel in the bbq and bake for a while.
Maybe rotate and baste it with something once in a while.:kidding:

[Hannibal]

I actually haven't measured any one it, really dont have too much of a clue to be fair . Got the alloy for another gun remembered someone recommending I chamber cast this one ,poured it then was kinda just staring there looking at like " umm....now what" that being said since this thing fire forms short instead of the brass growing I figured the chamber is sloppy or something so will probably just pull up the standard SAMMI print for .223 and compare measurements. That being said I think I need a micrometer for that to be semi accurate
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231229/e7735add98e65bea51989aef481c296d.jpg

As for the bore cam if if go to the 5min mark here you'll be able to see a quick view of the bore. Obvious tooling marks and something else, not sure if it's one kinda stress cracking or what
https://youtu.be/xj6AJDUQieE?si=_zttzD1Sb6EfjYRE

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

So at the 6 minute mark your looking at bore damage and asking if it is rust. That is what corrosion damage looks like. People store guns dirty and without any oil and that is what happens. I've seen a lot of that in many different barrels.

Based on that, you're going to get flyers. It is what it is.

[FergusonTO35]

What I like about single shots is that most are light, compact, and simple as dirt. Perfect woods stalking rifle and you don't have to worry about whether a particular boolit will feed or not. Far as getting a single shot to keep up with a good bolt action accuracy wise, I know it can be done but minute of deer/coyote at any reasonable range is all I require of them. If Kentucky permits single shot cartridge guns during muzzleloader season that will be another reason to like them.

[Tripplebeards]

I must have got lucky when I bought my NEF 223 back in the day. Guessing I bought it around 95’ new. It shot the same hole at 100 yards with sone goofy bulk 55 grain moly coated soft points I bought bulk in a vac sealed bag. I sold it shortly afterwards and bought it back two years ago. I think I ever cleaned it and I know my buddy didn’t. The scope was broke so I put another Tasco on it. A cheap 6-24 sportsman vs the defective 4x German recital it had on it. I zeroed it in with 60 grain vmax hand loads for my other rifles. It shot three that all either went in the same hole or touched at 100 yards. I shot a 200 yard group after that. I have a five shot 1 1/4” group at 200 yards! The trigger is heavy. I’ll have to see if I can remove it and try to lighten it. Had a bi pod on mine back in the day. I don’t remember if I ever shot it with on or not. Just shot it off the range supplied bags back in the day and off my lead sled to zero my new optic. I love shooting that rifle! Wish I had my old 410 back from around 81’…and my 10 gauge screw in short barreled turkey version. I had a 243 ultra varmint as well but never shot it before trading it for. VLS in 243.

[Rapier]

One thing the Hani rifle invites is a stub barrel change out, if you have a shop. Cut the old in front of the block, drill, ID thread, new barrel, turn to major, OD thread to match, chamber, etc.

[Tripplebeards]

I’m probably gonna go on the hunt for one of those short barrel 10 gauges with the chokes again along with early 80s model late 70s in a 410. I might have to do some horse trading if somebody’s got one of the old 10 gauges from the 90s with a screw in choke and short barrel and half to part with one of other guns I don’t use either.lol. Maybe that octagon Flobert I restored would be a good even trade. I was given a 10 gauge barrel that was short, but wasn’t choked. It wouldn’t work on my 223 or 12 gauge that I just sold off. I could’ve made it fit, but the barrel diameter would’ve overlapped the receiver.

[Tripplebeards]

I pulled mine out of the safe today. I know I never cleaned it and sold it to a buddy who never cleaned it and he ever shot it after I sold it to him. We took it out twice when I owned it to shoot it, and that was it. When I got it back two years ago, I took it out once after mounting a new optic. I zero it and shot it about a dozen times. I remembered the shells didn’t fly out and eject. I gave it a quick cleaning today and polished the chamber. Tested it with an empty shell and it flew right out. My serial number says what I remember when I bought it now which was 1995. I remember it because I bought it right when I bought my second house and had it sitting on the wooden floor on a bipod right after I bought the house. I tried to test the trigger and it bottomed out my 4 pound scale and had a little bit more pull after that so it’s got a good heavy break. I would think it’s gotta be around 5 pounds, or a little more, if I had to guess. Takes a pretty good yank to break. My goal was is to check the ejector today with cleaning the barrel and polishing the chamber. Fourth week turkey hunting starts tomorrow so I figure once I get my bird I have a whole week to play with it and take it apart and try and see if I can get that trigger lighter.

It still looks like brand spanking new, except for one scuff mark on the stock that’s about half the size of a dime. Not even scratched it’s like it just kinda wore off. Maybe it got rubbed in the safe or maybe that’s the way it was when I got it. I have some true oil that I’ll have to apply over that spot.

https://i.imgur.com/HRDEqQm.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

I wonder if I could just find a 410 barrel and try and make it fit on the 223 receiver?

[Gtek]

Crap shoot, I have been buying every reasonable (cheap, rusted, cut))shotgun barrel I see for all the stub projects in my head. Some are perfect on one and a few of the others fit those and some I don't know what I am going to do with them other than cut the lug off. GB parts kits, you feeling lucky?

[Tripplebeards]

My stock is awful shiny…I wonder if they varnished or tru oiled it? I don’t remember it be being that shiny from factory? Maybe it was? It’s easy enough it give it some love with 0000 steel wool if I want to knock it down to satin.

More I google it I see some shiny stock so I would assume it came that way from factory? It’s been decades since I’ve seen it so I just don’t remember. There’s no scratches where that spot is so I’m gonna try and clean it up with some rubbing alcohol once I get a chance after turkey seasons over in a few weeks and just try and apply a little true oil over that spot to try and blend it in so it’s got some finish over it. Almost looks like it must’ve sat against something and rubbed off. It’s weird. It’s like the wood itself. Doesn’t have any scratching or where it’s the shiny finish that’s missing about the size of a quarter at max. The rest of the stock in the fore end looks like shiny brand new yet. If it doesn’t turn out, it’s easy enough to refinish. I just don’t wanna have to…if I don’t have to.

I’ll have to also make a couple of wood blocks to hold the receiver and put some blue painters tape over it to try and tap the pins out so I can perform a trigger job to. Never did it before, but after googling it, it doesn’t look that hard. The biggest issue will be getting those darn splined pins out. Just went through this on my browning gold because there was no teardown for the trigger group and I had a splined pin that I didn’t know and of course pounded it out the opposite way. It didn’t make any difference because the part was broke to begin with so lesson learned.

[Tripplebeards]

You got me fired up to mess with mine! I know it shoots good, but I still am a firm believer in floating the barrel… even though there’s “barrel lug”. Did some reading over at Gray beards forum about using a rubber O-ring around the barrel log to float the fore end. Mine was definitely touching on one side…or both. I read a couple guys over there used metal washers instead of the rubber O-rings. Figure that would be more of a firm foundation. I grabbed the nearest thing I had since I didn’t have any washers. I found some shelf brackets and fabricated them really quick with the drillbit and broke them off. Put one in first and I had one side of the barrel touching yet and it was super tight with the paper test on the side that was clear. I made another washer and stacked it on the first one and retested. Definitely enough clearance now. Those little brackets actually fit perfectly in there and almost wedge in place so they don’t move around. I also pushed the hammer forward with quite amount of force several times and pulled the trigger while catching the front of the hammer so I wouldn’t dry fire it. I don’t have a trigger pull gauge where I’m at, but I can tell you it’s a lot lighter now. I’ll have to test it on my pull gauge. I’m sure I’ll end up taking it apart and stoning it.

https://i.imgur.com/HRq5n9x.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/8tnp1Pg.jpeg

[Jedman]

Crap shoot, I have been buying every reasonable (cheap, rusted, cut))shotgun barrel I see for all the stub projects in my head. Some are perfect on one and a few of the others fit those and some I don't know what I am going to do with them other than cut the lug off. GB parts kits, you feeling lucky?
What I have done on a few barrels that were loose on the frames I have is put them in the mill vice on there side and line the pivot point up with a 3/8 endmill. Change it out to a 5/8” and punch it through slowly. Then I turn a bushing out of cut off pieces of 4140 barrels to 5/8” OD and leave the ID a little under 3/8”. Then silver solder it on to the underlug trim off the extra and refit to the frame you want it to fit.
Jedman

[Tripplebeards]

Well, I just went through and did a trigger job on mine today. Boy are those spine pins a pain in the butt to knock out. I mushroom out a brass punch too many times to remember and kept filing it finally got both big splined pies out in the little splined pin didn’t wanna move, so I grabbed a small Phillips screwdriver like an idiot and gave it a love tap, and of course it moved and went down and kissed the receiver right around where the pin mates up with the hole. Held my tears back and figured I would Oxpho blue it I did after the trigger job was over and it looks just fine. I’m sure the only one that’s going to notice it as me and still irk me because that’s the way I am. Stoned the trigger 20 times in the sear 10. And rubbed some mothers polish on it, and just rubbed the parts against a piece of paper instead of polishing them with my Dremel cause I didn’t want to heat up the surfaces because I was told that just the outer pieces of the metal are hardened, and if you go to deep the metal will wear quick. Put it all back together and now it breaks at 60 ounces so 3 3/4 pounds. I can live with that even though it’s heavier than I wanted it sure beats the 6 to 8 pounds or whatever it was to begin with. Before it broke so heavy, it would bury my scale so I have no idea how heavy it was, but it was heavy enough that it needed to be done. That’s for sure.

[barrabruce]

Did you polish and smooth out where the shear runs along the hammer?That and other friction points work the best.
I left my actual shear to last and I can’t remember if I actually played with in the end or not.
Return spring replacement for a soft one works but if you go too light ,you don’t send of that silly transfer bar and hammer doesn’t actually hit anything.

[Tripplebeards]

Just stoned and polish the hammer and sear connections. It climbed up a few ounces. Probably about 4 pounds now on average according to my non digital scale. Doesn’t feel that heavy. Wondering if it brakes heavier(on the scale) because the scale pulls at an angle. I bedded the 2 brass coated shims to the fore end with JB weld. Didn’t want them moving around every time I took the foe end off and didn’t want to loose them. Figured it would be more consistent with them bedded into the fore end. Just used enough JB weld to glue the 2 shims together and enough to glue the bottom one to the fore end. Didn’t use any extra to flow around the haves or over the top. Just enough to secure them together and in place.

[Tripplebeards]

Well I just pulled out my lower trigger pin I couldn't get seated all the way through the receiver turned it around to match up the splines and tapped it in. I did the same with the other two pins and they all seated where they should be now. I was going to try and tap out the front trigger pin but it wouldn't come out again and I started dinging up the receiver again so I quit while I was behind. Opho blued my little dings again and looks fine. I read over on gray beards forum that of of owners spray dry graphite lube on the trigger group through the butt stock screw hole...with the butt stock removed. Tried this today using Rockford aresenal mold release dry graphite spray. Dropped it from 4 pounds to 16oz!!!!! Geeze!!! I had a home hame dummy round so I kept testing it and it settled down to 20oz. Left it for an hour or two and it's braking on average at 26oz. I gave it tons of love with a rubber mallet and it didn't go off. I wonder how long the graphite spray will last and where it will settle? I can tell you it was a pain to remove with wd-40 on metal the other day when I tested it on some random metal I had laying around.

[barrabruce]

I ended up using a drill to nipple the end of a rod about the right diameter then made it smaller to the pin sizes.
I think I have two and a locater pin for the trigger group.
This gives you a centre punch with a dimple that locates on the rounded pins so you can get them started.
I will try the graphite spray and see how that fares.
It’s all good stuff.
I hold my fore-end while shooting off the bags as I would hunting and for me it shoots better than anything else I have tried.