Big Game Mold for the Marlin 1894c?

[centershot]

Hello all! I have a Marlin 1894c, .357 Magnum, it's been mostly a range toy for all the time I've had it. I'm using the Lee 158 RF loaded over a charge of Blue Dot that gives just shy of 1400 fps. It shoots good, no problems there, and I'm sure it would kill a deer if I shot at one. But, I'm thinking a heavier bullet would be a better choice for deer and black bear. I've tried the Lyman 358429 170 gr. in it, it shoots them well enough but they hang up on the SWC shoulder when chambering. The RF bullets feed smoothly, but they're a little light I think and they're plain base, so I'm just about at the velocity limit. What are you guys using in your Marlins that feed smoothly and are in the 180 grain range?

[HBAR2989]

I've got a Henry carbine in 357 and use the Ranch dog 175 gc mold over Lil gun. That mold was designed for the Marlin. I've got to seat them just below the crimp grove to get them to feed without a hang up. The do shoot real well. I didn't get to put any on meat this year, but that's my plan. I just got done gas checking and relubing another batch.

[725]

Ranch Dog!

[PJEagle]

NOE makes a 180 grain WFN. It feeds well in mine.

[mnewcomb59]

The 180s give up a lot of trajectory and unless cast soft, they penetrate 4 feet of deer with a pencil sized hole.

I am in favor of 158s with Lil' Gun around 2000 fps. BHN 12 for longer ranges, BHN 14 for deer driving. Same alloy but the harder one is water dropped after powder coat. Both mushroom out to around 60 cal and penetrate enough for Texas heart shots within their ideal velocity window of 1700-2000 fps for 14 BHN, and 1200-1700 fps for 12 BHN.

The 12 BHN penetrates more and more as it slows down and does not penetrate enough for Texas heart shots at ranges under 50 yards, but the 180 with Lil' Gun at 12 BHN also did not penetrate enough for Texas heart shots. The NOE 154 WFN that I used has a small flat nose and the Ranch Dog that I used had a wider flat nose, so the Ranch Dog at 1800 fps essentially mushroomed wider than the 158 and penetrated the exact same as the 158 with 12 BHN at 2000 fps - 4 milk jugs.

They both work. I would stick with Lil' Gun and I would only pick the hard 180 if you are trying to shoot large pigs. It only makes a large wound if you hit bones. Shoot a 12-14 BHN 180 if you want absolute minimum muzzle blast and pick the 12-14 BHN 158 if you want maximum energy and trajectory out to 200 yards.

[stubshaft]

My favorite mold for the 1894C is the SSK 358-200. It has harvested hundreds of hogs and sheep when I was doing eradication hunts. I loaded it ahead of 13.0 WW296.

[quilbilly]

NOE makes a 180 grain WFN. It feeds well in mine.
You should really take a look at this boolit. IMHO it is the ultimate big game cast boolit for the 357 mag even though I have the plain base version. I have pushed it to 1400 fps with no leading problem at all in my Ruger M77. As long as you stay realistic about the effective range on black bear (75 yards) with thick bones and skin, it will very effective on thinner skinned game such as deer out to 150 yards where the terminal velocity will still be 1000 fps. I prefer a moderately harder alloy of BHN about 12 as well which, in my own terminal tests at 40 yards with an MV of 1350 into compressed soaked phone books, gave me almost 30" of penetration into the unnaturally hard media with expansion to .85" plus over 90% weight retention.

[Joe K]

mnewcomb59,

Is your NOE 154 FN the gas check or plane base version?

Joe

[centershot]

OK, some good information there, thanks guys! I'm not at all concerned about "long" range. Around here if you get a shot over 50 yards it's because a deer was unfortunate enough to walk out in front of you while you were walking down a logging trail. That happened to me once in 53 years of deer hunting! I'll cruise over to NOE and see what's cookin' !

[Rapier]

In my 94c I use the 200 RCBS plain base PCed, seated to clear a revolver cylinder, with brass/brass, a hard taper crimp, over the ojive, it feeds throught the action and ejects and hits with authority at 15 grains of H-110 and Smill rifle primers. Used the load for years with cast and the 200 Remington RN also. Load the 357 Mag in a rifle like a rifle not a handgun.

[mnewcomb59]

mnewcomb59,

Is your NOE 154 FN the gas check or plane base version?

Joe

Gas check

[mnewcomb59]

The last little piece of advice you need before you buy a mold is that Lil' Gun with 158s only makes about 25k PSI at max load and the brass lasts forever in the leverguns. The 180s with Lil' Gun (or any other powder) will be at 35k PSI and the brass only lasts one or two shots.

[centershot]

The last little piece of advice you need before you buy a mold is that Lil' Gun with 158s only makes about 25k PSI at max load and the brass lasts forever in the leverguns. The 180s with Lil' Gun (or any other powder) will be at 35k PSI and the brass only lasts one or two shots.

Is there something significantly different about the levergun's chamber to cause this? I've shot 158's over a max charge of 296/H-110 for more than 50 years in revolvers and leverguns and the caselife has not been a problem. Hodgdon shows 40,700 CUP for this load but I rarely lose a case.

[1Papalote]

I use the RanchDog C359190 mold. Designed for 35 R, works great in my 357s. Accurate too. Crimp on the ogive. Load with H110.

[mnewcomb59]

Is there something significantly different about the levergun's chamber to cause this? I've shot 158's over a max charge of 296/H-110 for more than 50 years in revolvers and leverguns and the caselife has not been a problem. Hodgdon shows 40,700 CUP for this load but I rarely lose a case.

No it is a characteristic of the powder. It is abnormally slow burning with 158s. You can't fit enough in the case to make 35k psi with a 158, only 25k psi. Even with the lower pressure it shoots 200 fps faster than other powders at 35k psi such as H110 or 2400.

Levergun chambers are also funneled at the back end to promote feeding with straight wall cases. 1892s and 1894s were designed around bottleneck cartridges, and when you try to run a 357 up the lifter on an angle and turn the corner into the parallel chamber, it binds on the back edge of the chamber. They funnel out the end of the chamber to let the cartridge turn the corner from the lifter into the chamber, and this area that is funneled out is unsupported which makes the cases bulge horribly.

I can run 35k psi loads indefinitely in revolvers and brass lasts forever, but 35k psi in a levergun you are lucky to load it twice before you start to worry about incipient case head separations.

[rockrat]

Also, look at MP300 powder for the 180's.

[centershot]

No it is a characteristic of the powder. It is abnormally slow burning with 158s. You can't fit enough in the case to make 35k psi with a 158, only 25k psi. Even with the lower pressure it shoots 200 fps faster than other powders at 35k psi such as H110 or 2400.

Levergun chambers are also funneled at the back end to promote feeding with straight wall cases. 1892s and 1894s were designed around bottleneck cartridges, and when you try to run a 357 up the lifter on an angle and turn the corner into the parallel chamber, it binds on the back edge of the chamber. They funnel out the end of the chamber to let the cartridge turn the corner from the lifter into the chamber, and this area that is funneled out is unsupported which makes the cases bulge horribly.

I can run 35k psi loads indefinitely in revolvers and brass lasts forever, but 35k psi in a levergun you are lucky to load it twice before you start to worry about incipient case head separations.

OK, I understand that. Some years back I was using L'il Gun for my 357 mag loads, both rifle and pistol, it worked well for me. I stopped using it when rumors circulated that there could be problems, not sure now exactly what was specified. I just checked Hodgdon's data, or lack of it, and they don't show it in 160 or 180 gain loads, can someone point me to data?

[centershot]

Found It!!! Many thanks to the OP!!!

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?462998-All-Manufacturers-Reloading-Data-On-One-Site

[pls1911]

Any gas checked 158+ SWC, or a light flat point from a .35 Remington.
Any of the above that shoots well in your gun, and limit shots to 50 yards. (Mine are normally more like 50 feet... Texas blinds in the brush)
Shoulder x spine shots + DRT every time.
Deer are just not tough.

[Jeff Michel]

NOE 180 Grain WFN, 12 grains of 2400= 1470 fps average.