Italian Zouave clone .58 cal...

[jason280]

Anyone familar with the generic Italian made Zouave .58 cal clones? I have a chance to pick one up in excellent condition, just not sure what one would be worth.

Also, any suggestions on a .58 mold and profile?

[Nobade]

There were some pretty good and some quite terrible. Do you know the manufacturer, date, importer, etc?
As for a bullet, you'll need to pin gauge the bore before you think of buying a mold, to make sure you get the right size. No smaller than .002" under and better .001" under for accuracy work.

[jason280]

No idea on the manufacturer, just stamped "Italy" on the barrel.

[Kraschenbirn]

It's really difficult to make a call based upon the info you've provided. Once upon a time (during my 'reenactor period'), I had a Navy Arms 'Zouave'...a faithful reproductionof the 1863 Remington...that was marked 'Italy'. Piece was well-made and quite accurate loaded Crisco/beeswax-lubed boolits (Lee .58 cal. Minie Ball mold) and 60 gr. of FFg. FWIW. I was later told by Val Foggett (founder of Navy Arms) that all of his early muzzle loaders and RB reproductions were made by Pedersoli. Of course, by that time I'd hung up my Yankee blues and the rifle traded for something I no longer recall.

Bill

[Wayne Smith]

Check under the barrel for proof marks. Anything made in Italy should have them. They may be able to narrow down the location in Italy where it was made if they have multiple proof houses.

[405grain]

I used to have one of those. Mine was a really good one. After the first fouling shot it was very accurate. I used to shoot the Lyman #575213 in it, but can't remember the powder charge. I gifted the rifle to my brother-in-law, but he passed on about 8 years ago.

[jason280]

I'll see if I can find out more about it tomorrow. They're asking $150, I'm trying to get it for $125...either is a fairly decent price. I *thought* I had an extra .58 cal mold, turns out all I have are .50 and .54 cal stuff.

[Nobade]

Considering almost everybody is asking around $1000 for pretty much every rifled musket these days I don't think you can go wrong there.

[Sasquatch-1]

I'll see if I can find out more about it tomorrow. They're asking $150, I'm trying to get it for $125...either is a fairly decent price. I *thought* I had an extra .58 cal mold, turns out all I have are .50 and .54 cal stuff.

If you can get it for $125.00 great. I wouldn't walk away at $150.00.

[Rapier]

If what you are looking at is the Navy, I do have one that is a real shooter. Still have the Lyman 505 grain Mini hollow cavity mould for it. Pure lead only. The service load was 65 grains of FF in the paper, bite the end off cartridge. My Navy 58 cal likes 75 grains of FFF for target shooting and 90 grains of FFF for hunting. Target shooting is with crisco lube and base fill, hunting is with modeling clay, in order to prevent contaminating the powder load.
When target shooting I swab the barrel between every shot with a large oversized rag swab soaked in rubbing alcohol. Evaporates in seconds wets any sparks and every shot is with a clean barrel. Learned the alcohol swab process at the Ned Roberts Shoots in NH-ME.
Pour powder, rap side of barrel with palm, to settle powder, muzzle up, insert bullet, push down onto powder, lift rod at the muzzle, full arm height, drop rod, repeat 3 times, consistent compression. Cracks like an 06 not a shotgun. Shoots clay pigeons at 150 yards.

With the advent of "Primitive Weapons" seasons the true muzzle loaders have lost substantial value.

[ascast]

At $150 I think it would be in my car already, unless the bore is plugged or bulged, ruptured, etc. I have one I inherited. Can't remember more than you know about your. I shot up the paper cartridges that came with and was impressed with the rock busting capability at about 300yds. Minies were harder than should have been but mostly grouped very well.
I can't see how you can go wrong at that price.

[30calflash]

I've a Zoli Zouave that shot well, only used it as a backup while in the NSS-A. Lyman 315 gr w/c, Lyman 460 grainer, like the original, they both shot well.

Unless there's something regarding condition or quality that you see I'd say it's a buy at that number.

[jason280]

I was able to pick it up today for $130 OTD, which I thought was a pretty good price. If its been shot, it wasn't shot much...and was definitely cleaned up properly after use. Only think I need is to source a replacement rear sight, and decide on a mold.

I know this may seem sacrilege, but what is everyone's opinion on 777 & RS blackpowder substitutes in these rifles? Only reason I ask, I'm sitting on 15-20lbs of the stuff, and would rather use it than trying to source real black powder.

https://i.imgur.com/XYRKdgX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RdIiTAo.jpg
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https://i.imgur.com/v1Krf28.jpg
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https://i.imgur.com/NgHK194.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XXrkUkd.jpg

[jason280]

https://i.imgur.com/oWByUkN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Mg3SAfL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JzlR1gi.jpg

[Davedude]

Looks good to me. Hard to beat that price! Use the substitutes if it is what you got. I have a Zoli Zouave. Shoots low and right IIRC, has been awhile since I shot it. Some fella came up to me at the range to tell me he loved the sound of my zouave going off ;-)

[Sasquatch-1]

If the bore looks as nice as the outside of the gun, you got a super bargain.

If you look at some of the muzzleloader shops on the net you should be able to find a new rear sight. Maybe someone on this site has one that will work.

As for substitute powder, I have an old Traditions Hawkin cap lock that loves the stuff. With 15 to 20 lbs. you have enough of the stuff to last you for quite a while.

PS, you may want to pop off the barrel bands and check under the barrel for a maker.

[Jeff Michel]

I believe the majority of Zouaves were made by Zoli. The example I have is made by Zoli but it's not marked anywhere on the musket. If I didn't have the box, I'd never know for sure. I use a .575 traditional Minie ball and sixty grains of FFG, standard infantry load. Have fun, you have a nice one.

[scattershot]

My philosophy is, anything that shoots is worth $150.00. Jump on it before someone else does.

[405grain]

The rifle in the photos looks exactly like the one I used to have. I used Pyrodex RS in mine without any issues. Something that I just remembered is that the rifle (at least my old one) takes flanged musket caps, not regular percussion caps. It was a lot of fun to shoot. Your musket might be different than mine was, but on mine the very first shot would not be so accurate, but every shot after that first fouling shot could hit a soda can at 100 yards. (if it missed that was because on me)

[dondiego]

The rifle in the photos looks exactly like the one I used to have. I used Pyrodex RS in mine without any issues. Something that I just remembered is that the rifle (at least my old one) takes flanged musket caps, not regular percussion caps. It was a lot of fun to shoot. Your musket might be different than mine was, but on mine the very first shot would not be so accurate, but every shot after that first fouling shot could hit a soda can at 100 yards. (if it missed that was because on me)

I have one and was having trouble getting the musket caps so I bought a replacement nipple that uses #11 caps and it works great. I keep the musket nipple screwed into the threads in the patch box just in case needed.

[jason280]

This one came with two different nipple sizes...

[StrawHat]

I got an old Zola Harpers Ferry 1841. The barrel was totally rusted on the outside so I replaced it and modified it a bit.

320664

Great shooter now!

Kevin

[30calflash]

Nice purchase, mine was about the same $$$ IIRC and it's no where near as nice as that! Whoever had it shot it so much that the wood near the nipple was burnt away and they made a brass insert to fill in and be resistant to the flash. And, it still shoots fine.

I'd say check with the powder manufacturer for input or loads for your Zouave. They should have something to go by.

[Abert Rim]

I recently bought one marked FARA, Italy, with the Italian proofs and an XX code that could mean 1964. It is in decent shape, very nice bore. My research seems to suggest that FARA was a consortium of small gunmakers organized by the Zoli brothers before they became Zoli. This one surprised me with a coil spring rather than V-spring lock. Was going to shoot it today, with .570 swaged round balls and Triple Seven, but got shanghaied doing Christmas cards ...