Lee TL bullets--does sizing increase accuracy.

[Wally]

Was wondering if anyone has tested accuracy using Lee .38 Cal TL bullets--sized vs unsized. I have used the 148 WC-TL & 158 SWC-TL and found no significant difference. But many shoot them at paper targets and may have some experience regarding this. If so, please share your observations.

Thank you!

[jdgabbard]

I always did size them. But I didn't shoot a lot of them. The only TL molds I have is the 124gr 9mm mold (which I hate), the 158 SWC which has proved a VERY accurate bullet (best group ever shot was with this one), and the original Ranch Dog 190gr bullet, which I don't shoot much anymore due to it really being too heavy for the 357mag.

[dondiego]

Lee TL bullets are designed to be cast, lubed, and loaded as is. May or may not work in your gun.

[Maven]

Wally, I've found what you have; i.e, sizing is more for lube purposes when I don't tumble lube. Accuracy is ~the same either way.

[Bazoo]

Sizing is always detrimental to accuracy, because it causes the bullet to be swaged slightly, and with no guarantee of concentricity. The catch 22 is, that when you have a batch of bullets they will vary slightly in diameter, when you size them they will then have nearly the same bullet pull, and nearly the same pressure going through the cylinder throats.

[charlie b]

FIL and I fired 10's of thousands of bullets from Lee molds in a couple dozen different guns without sizing all from straight WW alloy. And, yes, pan lubing was a PITA but it was cheap :)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Fun fact:
They are all sized when they are shot.

[Wally]

Fun fact:
They are all sized when they are shot.

Yes indeed the cylinder throats will size them; as long as the rounds will chamber, you are good to go. Theoretically sizing makes the bullets uniform and that should offer the best accuracy, but in my expeinece not enough to make much difference. However I was hoping to hear from a shooter that has tried shooting sized & unsized in paper targets to see what results they've had.

[charlie b]

The only bullets I've tested for longer range accuracy (100-500yd) have all been sized to fit the bore of the rifle, and then seated to jam into the rifling. The bore riders (like the longer lee 'C' series) have to be touching the lands in the bore or accuracy may suffer. For my .308 Savage barrel the Lyman 311299 and RCBS 165SIL fit the bore out of the mold. The Lee C309-180 had to be powder coated for the nose to fit properly. All of them were sized to .310 mainly because I had to crimp gas checks anyway.

[Hickok]

Fun fact:
They are all sized when they are shot.That says it all right there!:goodpost:

[jdgabbard]

Sizing is always detrimental to accuracy, because it causes the bullet to be swaged slightly, and with no guarantee of concentricity. The catch 22 is, that when you have a batch of bullets they will vary slightly in diameter, when you size them they will then have nearly the same bullet pull, and nearly the same pressure going through the cylinder throats.

Well, that may be. But I've never known Lee molds to be entirely concentric.... I've had quite a few egg shaped molds from them over the years....

[michael.birdsley]

Yes indeed the cylinder throats will size them; as long as the rounds will chamber, you are good to go. Theoretically sizing makes the bullets uniform and that should offer the best accuracy, but in my expeinece not enough to make much difference. However I was hoping to hear from a shooter that has tried shooting sized & unsized in paper targets to see what results they've had.

so i just ran this experiment today. im running a lee 356-120-tc-Tl in my sr9e. granted im powder coating them and not tumble lubing them. i get my best accuracy by sizing to .357 before powder coat. i than shake and bake the bullets and than resize again to .357. to day i tried shooting unsized powder coated boolits and it did not go over very well. groups went from fist size at 15 yards to a shot gun pattern at 15 yards with out sizing.


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[oley55]

Well, that may be. But I've never known Lee molds to be entirely concentric.... I've had quite a few egg shaped molds from them over the years....

^^^this and Lee size options are shall I say "limited"? As such I have to 'Beagle' them to get the size I need guaranteeing non-concentric. I size them all.

[jdgabbard]

^^^this and Lee size options are shall I say "limited"? As such I have to 'Beagle' them to get the size I need guaranteeing non-concentric. I size them all.

No, I mean egg shaped from the factory. They’re better now. But back in the day I had more out of round Lee molds than I had ones that were round.

[Bazoo]

True, but it isn't just Lee moulds. I've had several Lyman moulds that cast egg shaped bullets.

[gloob]

It seems like a nice idea to save a step of sizing, if the bullets shoot fine as dropped.

I gave up on this, because there's one thing to watch out for. If you drop some bullets where the mold didn't quite close all the way they come out oversize. If you accidentally load some of these, they can jam your gun up.

[schutzen-jager]

Fun fact:
They are all sized when they are shot.

great point - i only size rifle boolits + shoot all pistol boolits as cast -

[Larry Gibson]

It seems like a nice idea to save a step of sizing, if the bullets shoot fine as dropped.

I gave up on this, because there's one thing to watch out for. If you drop some bullets where the mold didn't quite close all the way they come out oversize. If you accidentally load some of these, they can jam your gun up.

Exactly what I found, especially when cast with the Lee 6 holer. I size all my TL bullets (.32, 38s, 41s and 44s).

[Huskerguy]

Lots of variables in all of this.

One assumes that all cavities are exactly the same. There is something to be said for uniformity and I find the sizing die provides that. You can also get different diameters just with the lead mix you are using, or failing to get the mold shut perfectly tight or just wear on the mold over time. To me, this is where sizing eliminates some of those variables.

I was headed to the range a few months ago and wanted to shoot some 38's. In the past I cast bullets with the Lee TL design. I sized to .358 and shot a bunch and later fell in love with an RCBS mold in SWC. Anyway, I found a full 100 round box of the TL bullets and yes I did TL them and wow were they accurate and dead on in my Model 28 and 66.

For those that use the Lee sizers, read the directions. They do NOT recommend sizing directly on the lead. I tried it once with terrible results, spent a lot of time cleaning lead out of my sizing die. Not sure what is accomplished by sizing the lead, coating powder or TL, and sizing again. Pour, coat, size and shoot.

[Wally]

Huskerguy your experience with the .38 Cal TL bullets mirror mine---accurate and dead on in my .38 Caliber pistols. One can size them first--just roll them over a lightly oil lubed pad first. A light coating of motor oil is all you need. I wonder if anyone has sized/lubed TL bullets in a traditional Lyman/RCBS lube sizer?

[jdgabbard]

Huskerguy your experience with the .38 Cal TL bullets mirror mine---accurate and dead on in my .38 Caliber pistols. One can size them first--just roll them over a lightly oil lubed pad first. A light coating of motor oil is all you need. I wonder if anyone has sized/lubed TL bullets in a traditional Lyman/RCBS lube sizer?

I have. Doesn’t work well. The profile of the grooves just allows the lube to basically fall out when handling…


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[Wally]

Thanks...perhaps a hard lube would work, but it might no be worth the effort. One could argue--what good are TL bullets that you don't TL?

[jdgabbard]

Thanks...perhaps a hard lube would work, but it might no be worth the effort. One could argue--what good are TL bullets that you don't TL?

They actually work REALLY well when powder coated. I like them better that way.


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[Carrier]

They actually work REALLY well when powder coated. I like them better that way.


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Pc works for me with them as well.

[DougGuy]

when you size them they will then have nearly the same bullet pull, and nearly the same pressure going through the cylinder throats.

The more variables you remove from the equation, the more consistent your pressure will be and your groups will be smaller.

Cylinder throats are one of the biggest culprits in throwing flyers and poor groups IF and WHEN they are 1.) undersized and 2.) inconsistent diameters. <<< This accounts for fully 90% of Ruger cylinder production.

Cylinder throats often function as a multi-port sizing die, so don't discount addressing throat diameters to sharpen your game b/c they certainly will when done right and boolits are sized to the throats, preferably -.0005" under the throat.

[charlie b]

They actually work REALLY well when powder coated. I like them better that way.


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That's the way I use them as well.

I guess I have been lucky since I sized bare lead bullets through my Lee push thru size dies for years without a problem. I still size bare lead through my NOE size bushings.