Anyone remember Jack O'Connor?

[Idaho45guy]

My dad showed me a shotgun of his a couple of years ago that he claimed was owned by Jack O'Connor. He said he couldn't prove it, but swore he bought it on consignment in 1974 from Lolo Sporting Goods for $500. He said he didn't know how Jack got it, but assumed since he was a writer, he was given to him through a magazine or the manufacturer in exchange for some kind words in an article.

My dad then sold the shotgun to a lawyer friend who had it engraved to honor Jack's two favorite bird hunting states; Idaho and Arizona. My dad was upset that the shotgun was engraved and bought it back.

My dad passed in May, and I inherited the beautiful shotgun. I contacted Browning's Historian who agreed to research the shotgun. That was 2-3 months ago.

I just received a letter from Browning verifying that the shotgun was indeed purchased new by Jack O'Connor...

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I also reached out to a professional appraiser and dealer who owns O'Connor firearms and has sold many of them over the years. He said due to the engraving, the value was substantially lowered to no more than $10k. It was opined that it could have been worth around $50k.

I am thankful for the "low" value since it means I am not tempted to sell it and instead will actually take it in the field and pass it down as a unique family heirloom.

I am surprised by how many folks these days have never heard of Jack O'Connor, or Elmer Keith, or John Taffin. I own a few fine rifles crafted by Al Biesen, Roger Biesen, and Jim Zahm. Those are also names being lost to time.

It's a shame.

[cwtebay]

My grandfather gave me the Book of the Rifle when I was 10 years old. Hard to beat his books or the others that you mentioned.
Also fantastic gun with a better story!!

[Shawlerbrook]

Great story ! O’Connor was one of the tops when it came to rifles and hunting. The Winchester M70 and the 270 Winchester were his favorites . Make sure to look into insuring that treasure.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I've read many an article written by Jack. Just good common sense gun advice that seems missing today from the hacks.

Strange, but I agreed with his wife's choice of rifles above his.

[cwtebay]

I've read many an article written by Jack. Just good common sense gun advice that seems missing today from the hacks.

Strange, but I agreed with his wife's choice of rifles above his.Wasn't hers chambered in 7x57?

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[Kestrel4k]

A lawyer doing what he does best, i.e. costing other people money.

[Uncle Grinch]

I vividly remember reading his series of books when I was in high school. Been a fan of his and the 7x57 for many years!

[Ithaca Gunner]

Wasn't hers chambered in 7x57?

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Yup, Elaine I believe her name was, was a big fan of the 7x57 Mauser. I've no doubt they loaded them a bit warmer than is recommended today. My Lyman 39 manual, (1953) lists loads for it that push the modern .280 Rem, (with a warning to reduce by 20% for the old '93 Mausers).

[dverna]

Yup, Elaine I believe her name was, was a big fan of the 7x57 Mauser. I've no doubt they loaded them a bit warmer than is recommended today. My Lyman 39 manual, (1953) lists loads for it that push the modern .280 Rem, (with a warning to reduce by 20% for the old '93 Mausers).

I always assumed she used the 7x57 due to the slightly lighter recoil. Doesn’t make much sense to hot rod a 7mm when he was shooting a .270 anyway.

[WILCO]

Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[firefly1957]

Great writers and shooters of the past thanks for the memory .

[Bazoo]

Awesome story. Thanks for sharing. Interesting that the engraving lowered the value that much. I'd think it would just be part of the story of the gun.

[Milky Duck]

Mr Oconner...arguably the father of the mighty .270w the queen of mountain rifles...his writings promoted it very well. wasnt beyond using the 280 either.
Nick Harvey,Graham Henry are another two names to add to that list...southern hemisphere authors who wrote many great articles for the gun magazines over the years.

you make sure and use that shotgun...it was made to be shot,not just looked at. get it into your will NOW ,so it goes to right set of hands whenever you shuffle off to the big duck pond in the sky....be a tragedy for it to end up sold off to another lawyer ....

[Milky Duck]

also....remember that fella who gave you appraisal will work on commission..... pretty much guarantee he could onsell shotgun in half a heartbeat for well more than 20k if indeed it was ever worth 50k..... a 10k lowball offer might have tempted another to sell it through him then and there.

[Texas by God]

If I remember correctly, Eleanor O’Conner used her 7x57 mostly, but occasionally used her “Big Gun”- a 30-06.


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[atr]

I grew up reading whatever Jack O'Conner wrote! He was "the" guy back in the day. I never took to the .270 like he did but his writing got me interested in the 7x57, which I still shoot.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I always assumed she used the 7x57 due to the slightly lighter recoil. Doesn’t make much sense to hot rod a 7mm when he was shooting a .270 anyway.

I've been a 7x57 fan for almost 50 years and while I've never loaded it to the Lyman limits of 1953, I have loaded it warmer than what's safe in an 1893 Mauser with great accuracy and perfectly safe in a new Model 70 Winchester. While I love the 7x57 Mauser, I don't care a bit for a .270, I've owned two and the caliber does nothing for me. Prior to moving to the 7mm she shot a .257 Roberts, she wasn't recoil shy. Her ''big game'' rifle was a .30/06. Did she kill an elephant with her .30/06? An article in, ''African Hunting Gazette'' claims she did. (I really don't know) It is known she was a great stalker and only shot past 200yds. when there was no option to get closer.

Idaho.45guy...Fantastic heirloom you've got there!

[Bazoo]

A very interesting discussion, thanks all for sharing.

[45workhorse]

Neat shotgun and letter!
When she is not in the field, display her with the letter!
Maybe get someone interested in doing a little reading!

[GooseGestapo]

I first was introduced to him through an article printed in Boys Life magazine. I soon graduated to the monthly articles in Outdoor Life. I’ve read The Rifle book, and followed him till he passed.
He was also an avid wing shooter writing frequently about pheasant hunting. He was a fan of the 28ga and prevailed upon John Olin during a quail hunt in S.W. Ga to produce the Super X 1oz load.


Yes; Mrs. O’s 7x57 sporter , by Al Biesen, iirc, was built on a G33/40 Medium M98 Mauser action.
I have a modern version of it by means of a Remington Model-7 in 7mm08. It’s a newer one (circa 2004) with a 20”bbl and laminated stock. It’s only 250fps behind my 26”bbl M700 in 7mmRemMag. It’s both the “luckiest” and favorite rifle I own. Cartridge too!
It’s astonishing at the power and performance with 150gr bullets and just 45.0gr of IMR or H4350, or RL17. Flatter shooting and better terminal energy than a .308win. It’s the modern equivalent of the 7x57.

I too haven’t been overly infatuated with the .270. I originally wanted one but fate put me in the .30/06 camp. After owning several .270’s, I can’t say I’m disappointed. The ‘06 doesn’t really kill any better than the .270, but does seem to make game flinch more when shot…

[rbuck351]

I had a 270 for quite a few years but gave it to my son. I shot several moose with it when I live in AK. I don't believe that using a 7x57 would have worked any better. The diameter of a 7mm is only .007" larger than a .277 bullet. If you think .007 makes any noticeable difference, imagine the difference .024 of the 30=06 would make.

I have shot moose with 270, 308, 30-06, 300 H&H and 338 and didn't see any real difference in the results.

I have heard quite a bit of O'Conner but haven't read much of his writing.

[contender1]

Yes,, many of us "old timers" remember Jack O'Conner.

Glad you have the gun and it's provenance.

[Txcowboy52]

I too remember reading many articles by Mr. O’Conner, no doubt about his love for the .270. He was a great writer and very knowledgeable. Good story about your father’s gun, congratulations on knowing you will pass on an amazing family heirloom.

[10x]

Jack O'Connor was one of the best gun writers there ever was.
Few, if any, gun writers today measure up to the standard set by Mr. O'Connor.

[Hickok]

I grew up reading Jack in the magazines and still have several of his books.

I always used his advice of the 3 inch high zero @ 100 yards, for a hunting zero with a scoped, fast, high powered rifle, 25/06, .270, and 7mm magnum. Out to 300 yards, drop was only about 4 inches with this zero, so ranging and holdover was "no brainer" on deer, (allowing for some wind drift), with a GOOD rest and accurate rifle, AND lots of practice out to 300 yards.

[daleraby]

I've got one or two of his books in my library. If I recall correctly, Jack was a major proponent of the .270 Winchester back when it was still a wildcat.

I would question the assertion that the engraving lowered the value of the gun. If someone wanted it, and it was factory verified by a letter from the manufacturer that Jack had indeed purchased it, I doubt that a professional engraving job would hurt the value any.... and it might actually increase the value.

A gun's value on the open market is worth just exactly what the buyer will pay for it and not a penny more. Note that this value changes with the market and the depth of the buyer's pockets. If I could get hold of a Keith No. Five revolver with a verification letter stating that Elmer Keith had owned it, I would not care if someone had prettied it up subsequently to Mr. Keith's ownership. I would sell my Lincoln Town Car, all my Colt DA revolvers, all but one of my muzzleloaders and maybe dip into the gold and silver in the safety deposit box.

Probably just as well that I will never get hold of one. (heavy sigh)

[WRideout]

Jack O'Connor had the career I really wanted, as an outdoor writer and somewhat professional hunter. I acquired several of his books in paperback while in college in the 70's, and still have them. Love the gun BTW.

Wayne

[kaiser]

Jack O'Conner was above all one of the best writers and "story tellers" of the "hunt". IMO, he could put you at the very scene of a hunting venture imagining all the sights and sounds to be experienced. While he had a talent for writing, and was a college professor, according to all those that hunted with him, he was a "tremendous shot" in the field. According to many of his peers, he was considered the "Dean of Gun writers", "Cactus Jack" to friends, and other less flattering names by his distractors. In his later years, his patience's for less talented writers did not endear him to editors, or "upstarts" in the business.
Having a firearm O'Conner once owned would be akin to owning a "Rembrandt", in my estimation as a "gun loony", and any gun collector worth the title would pay more than you could turn down! You are very fortunate indeed to have it in your possession - like has been said, "get it insured" ASAP! Regards, Kaiser.

[waksupi]

I have one of O'Conner's books here somewhere. He wrote a lot about his time up in this area working in the forest. We hunted much the same area.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Jack took us around the world hunting and shooting. He and his wife were a perfect match for one another, and I enjoyed her stories and opinions every bit as much as his. I can't recall another writer who could identify with the average ''Joe'' better than Jack for real and useful information, (even if he did like the .270 a bit beyond my tastes).

His writings and kind are sorely missed, but his printed material is timeless and a treasure for generations to come.

[danmat]

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My Oconner rifle, had to have one reading all his writings.
Made my longest shot on a whitetail with it, not going to say how far it was, but he was right on sight in.

[725]

What a treasure you have there. It was made to be used and I hope you use it for a long time. Funny, the old division over the .270 vs whatever other caliber you choose, is still going on. Kinda glad to see that. I, for one, love the .270.

[303carbine]

I've been a 7x57 fan for almost 50 years and while I've never loaded it to the Lyman limits of 1953, I have loaded it warmer than what's safe in an 1893 Mauser with great accuracy and perfectly safe in a new Model 70 Winchester. While I love the 7x57 Mauser, I don't care a bit for a .270, I've owned two and the caliber does nothing for me. Prior to moving to the 7mm she shot a .257 Roberts, she wasn't recoil shy. Her ''big game'' rifle was a .30/06. Did she kill an elephant with her .30/06? An article in, ''African Hunting Gazette'' claims she did. (I really don't know) It is known she was a great stalker and only shot past 200yds. when there was no option to get closer.

Idaho.45guy...Fantastic heirloom you've got there!

I too prefer the 7x57 Mauser over a 270, I bought a Remington 700 Classic in 7x57 a couple decades back, I took many a Blacktail with that rifle.
I gave it to my son when he was old enough to hunt on his own.

[35 Rem]

I would think everybody on this forum would know Jack Oconnor. I used to enjoy his feuds with Elmer Keith over rifle choices. When you look at the 270 Winchester honestly and consider the point blank method of sighting in, it's hard to beat what it offers for game that it's appropriate for. For example, I have a 257 Weatherby and using the latest monolithic bullets and burning a double handful of powder I only gain about 25 yards range over the 270 with a standard boattail 130 grain spitzer. I love them both but it was eye opening to really quantify the small difference between the two. I can't imagine having a gun actually owned by one of the great gun writers like this but I agree that if I did, I would shoot it. Contrary to current attitudes towards blued and wood guns, they can be used without ruining them. People did it for many years.

[Kraschenbirn]

Like others here, I grew up reading Jack O'Conner's books and articles and still have three of his books (original editions, not reprints) in my library. Once met him at a 'meet 'n greet' during the Nat'l Sporting Goods Ass'n show in Chicago...1976 IIRC...before the shooting sports broke away to create the SHOT show. Incidently, Elmer Keith was also there and recall that both he and O'conner were noticeably 'hard of hearing'. (Ear protection, anyone?)

I know that everyone has one gun that they'll alway regret letting go and mine is a .270 M70 'Featherweight that I traded off in a moment of weakness. Rifle was a real tack-driver for the first three shots then, even after glass-bedding and free-floating the barrel, would string vertically until the barrel cooled back to 'room temperature'.

Bill

[10x]

I would think everybody on this forum would know Jack O'Connor. I used to enjoy his feuds with Elmer Keith over rifle choices. snip

The "feud" with Elmer Kieth sold many Guns and Ammo and Outdoor life subscriptions to folks who would only have one subscription. As a courtesy Kieth and O'Connor sent rebuttals through the mail to allow for each to have a running conversation in the issues as they were printed.

[lightman]

I grew up reading articles by those guys. I met Bill Jordan at the Tulsa Gun Show several years ago. I shook hands with him and he autographed my copy of his book "No Second Place Winner". Sadly all of those guys have gone on. RIP

[Ithaca Gunner]

I too prefer the 7x57 Mauser over a 270, I bought a Remington 700 Classic in 7x57 a couple decades back, I took many a Blacktail with that rifle.
I gave it to my son when he was old enough to hunt on his own.

I had two, an Interarms MarkX was my introduction to the 7X57 and I hunted all sizes of game with it from groundhog to black bear. Plenty accurate with a Weaver 3-9x40 scope atop it. I think i traded it in for a Winchester M-70 .30-06 and recycled the Weaver, (which I STILL have). The second 7mm was a Winchester M-70 FWT from the 1980's. I didn't plan on selling or trading it, but I loaned it to a neighbor/friend for a Montana hunt, (all he had was a Marlin 336 in .30/30). He fell more deeply in love with it more than I ever would have and I ended up selling it to him. Then he retired and moved to Montana with it to be near his daughter and her family after I said I would buy it back if he ever decided to sell it! The seed has been planted, I bought a box of Remington 175gr. ammo off a neighbor this summer...:bigsmyl2:

[Shawlerbrook]

I am also a 7x57 and 28 ga. fan, but never cared for the 270.

[HWooldridge]

Skeeter Skelton was another writer you don't find many people talking about anymore, but he was quite a storyteller, too.

I had a Winchester model 70 in .270 and never liked the noise when it went off. The neighbors would always call the house and want to know whether something had exploded.

Friend of mine had a 7x57 when I was in high school and we harvested a lot of deer with it - had a milder recoil and not nearly as loud. I use a 7mm-08 now on deer and I like it much better overall than the .270 - one shot kills are the norm.

[Rapier]

Congrats on getting the shotgun verified as an O'Connor gun. Getting a written verification many times can be difficult in my research experience.

I got in a 270 Win barrel for a Rem 700 BDL to put together a custom 270 rifle build for myself. Alas, a friend whom did me a favor previously, needed a 270 Win for his son for a Christmas gift and could not find a 270 anywhere, seems like FL and the 270 do not match up too well. So I built the custom 270, I had in mind for me, for him as a gift for his son. He only needed it finished in 12 days. It shot a sub 1/2" group on the function test. He got the rifle and group, for the box, The only 270 Win I ever owned, if only for a day.

[Idaho45guy]

Great stories! My ultimate hunting round for Idaho is my .30-06 Ackley Improved. But after shooting a Jim Zahm .25-06 Model 70, it may become my new favorite.

[Beerd]

Remember him? Heck I hunted with him.
Well, not Jack but a young feller named John O'Conner.
When I mentioned the Jack and the .270 he kind of gave me that "Huh?" look.
..

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I remember him well.He did like the .270 which I do not. Why didn' Winchester just put a 7mm bullet in the '06 case and create a great cartridge instead of creating an odd ball like the .270 which is fading away. Oconner bragged about how the .270 could kill anything. When Elmer Kieth asked him if he ever shot an elk with a .270, Oconner was stuck because he had not. Hi wife had better sense; she wanted a 7mm.

[bcraig]

I remember him well.He did like the .270 which I do not. Why didn' Winchester just put a 7mm bullet in the '06 case and create a great cartridge instead of creating an odd ball like the .270 which is fading away. Oconner bragged about how the .270 could kill anything. When Elmer Kieth asked him if he ever shot an elk with a .270, Oconner was stuck because he had not. Hi wife had better sense; she wanted a 7mm.

https://www.boone-crockett.org/270-americas-cartridge-0#:~:text=Jack%20O%E2%80%99Connor%20bought%20his%2 0first.270%2C%20a%20Winchester%2054%2C,dozen%20bul ls%20O%E2%80%99Connor%20would%20kill%20with%20this %20cartridge.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/443630/1

Millions of hunters will be shocked to find that the 270 Winchester is Fading away ! LOL

[Idaho45guy]

My first elk was shot with a .257 Roberts using 117gr Noslers. Dropped like a rock with one shot. A .270 is entirely adequate for elk.

[cwtebay]

My first 4 elk, several deer, 4 antelope, and first black bear were all killed with the model 721 Remington 270 that my grandfather gave me. I don't recall feeling under gunned. Perhaps it was a sense that JOC had been there before.

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[doghawg]

As a young boy I got a subscription to Outdoor Life and Jack O'conners articles were the first thing I'd turn to.