Pin Gauge help requested

[georgerkahn]

I've wanted pin gauges for a while, never having the bucks. Sooo, I got the idea (Amazon, of course :() of just purchasing the few sizes I think I need rather than "mortgaging the house" to buy a full set -- knowing most in a full set would never ever be used.
Here's my question: The gauges came, and each is in a small plastic bag with what looks like a wax coating. For use, I plan on cleaning all off so I have but the exact size I want.
What do I do then do with them to keep them rust-free and readily again usable by me?
And, re storage? Might I just add a few grains of rice to each bag, clearly label them, and put them away for next use? Or, might a tube like end-mills often come in be a better solution?
I'm curious what you knowledgeable pro's do?
Thanks!
geo

[country gent]

Sometimes you can cut around center of cosmoline and slide it off then when done slide it back on. An end mill tube will work but you need to be careful opening it.

Some wood, a drill press, hinges you can make a box to hold them with little work. But leave room for extras as they come

[Gtek]

Plastic zip locks (small) oil up and seal up and write size on bag with marker.

[kootne]

George, I would think a plastic box with a snap lid for .357 or .44 mag cartridges would work fine. Pin gauges seem to run about 2.020" long, make sure the box is tall enough. Maybe put a lightly oiled cleaning patch in with them to remind you to wipe the ones you used before putting them away.

[15meter]

Think twice before doing the wood box routine. Some domestic hardwoods are acidic. The oaks being the worst offenders. Most gage block boxes I've seen were mahogany that was well sealed. It can be done, you just have to be careful with wood selection.

I made some loading blocks years ago with out thinking, I used some very nice white oak. The .308 Winchester brass that I left in the blocks for a week or so developed a very distinct tarnish that came up the case to the level of the blocks. It never did polish out. I had two tone cases for a number of years.

I've also had oak shavings rust the tables on both the jointer and the planer during hot humid weather.

[DougGuy]

George what class of pins did you buy? For our uses with cylinders I use the ZZminus pins they are -.0002" so a ZZ minus pin marked .358" is actually .3578" so it will go in a .358" hole. A pin the same exact size as the hole will not go in the hole.

I like Meyer Gauge Co. ZZ Minus pins. You can order the individual pins from them, and they are USA made, quite affordable to buy single pins if you don't need too many. Here's the kicker though, .001" increments is too coarse for revolver work, one size fits loose, and the next pin up won't fit at all so I use (and highly recommend) the half thou pins.

Meyer gage uses a light colored wood for all their boxes, it looks like maple or poplar, not sure what it is but they keep the pins in good condition as long as the box stays closed. Want to know what really ruins pin gages faster than anything? Temperature changes induce condensation, then they rust. So if you open your shop door and it's warm outside everything in your shop is cold from a cool night, everything in your shop gets condensation on it.

[georgerkahn]

Thanks for good responses thus far!!! I did a Google search, and most perplexing to me is a gent with a Brit accent who maintains the pin gauges should never be touched with human hands -- only pin vises or, lacking these, wearing nitrile gloves. He then goes on re plusses and minuses of using silicon, oil, or grease to keep a zero permeability coating on each. Added is that it is imperative that none come in contact with another as they're easily "distorted". He did say the real biggest fear is rust, as even a smidgeon of this will change the size of the gauge one is planning to use. (He noted, too, this is a very good reason NOT to buy used pin gauges -- specially on auction sites.)
Until I hear (I hope ;)) better, I'm now thinking of de-oiling all with lacquer thinner and then lightly spraying each with Kroil aerosol. I have some 2" x 2" 4mil zip loc bags, which I'll label and put one in each.
Think this will do?

[DougGuy]

Thanks for good responses thus far!!! I did a Google search, and most perplexing to me is a gent with a Brit accent who maintains the pin gauges should never be touched with human hands -- only pin vises or, lacking these, wearing nitrile gloves. He then goes on re plusses and minuses of using silicon, oil, or grease to keep a zero permeability coating on each. Added is that it is imperative that none come in contact with another as they're easily "distorted". He did say the real biggest fear is rust, as even a smidgeon of this will change the size of the gauge one is planning to use. (He noted, too, this is a very good reason NOT to buy used pin gauges -- specially on auction sites.)
Until I hear (I hope ;)) better, I'm now thinking of de-oiling all with lacquer thinner and then lightly spraying each with Kroil aerosol. I have some 2" x 2" 4mil zip loc bags, which I'll label and put one in each.
Think this will do?

Haha it is NOT "Astronaut science" as your advisor must be severely obsessed with too much technicality! He is making a mountain out of a molehill.

[georgerkahn]

Haha it is NOT "Astronaut science" as your advisor must be severely obsessed with too much technicality! He is making a mountain out of a molehill.

I HEAR you re it not being "Astronaut science". BUT -- and, to me it is a fairly large "BUT": I purchased gauges to measure one-thousandth's of an inch, right? If, say, one gets/has a 1/1000 inch coating of, say, wax or oil on it -- then does not the gauge I bought REALLY become 1/1000" bigger? And, from years of pulling pins from tractor implements I know first hand it does not take very much rust at all to turn an easily pulled out pin into a nightmare requiring a brass hammer, sometimes heat, and a bit of cussin' (which helps :)) to get it out.
I so respect the knowledge/wisdom on this site -- I'm (still) in search of simply -- perhaps not any form of science -- keeping my ~$5.00/each pins the SAME size as they were when the package containing them arrived...
Thanks again to all!
geo

[JSnover]

If you're keeping them oiled and inside their individual bags you'll be fine. Just no matter how you store them, don't store them dry. In use; be gentle. If you force them into anything you'll have to force them out. As with any measuring equipment, don't drop them.

[Moleman-]

I have .061"-.250" and .251-.500" ZZ class pin gauge sets. When I got the 251-500 set I cleaned them in the parts cleaner, then oiled them with vactra way oil and keep them in the plastic box they came in. 10 years+ in an unheated Michigan polebarn and no rust. The .061-250 set I've only unwrapped the ones I've used and left the others in the waxed paper. The pins are hardened and not easily damaged. I think the guy giving you advice not to touch them is "a little" over the top unless he's one of the types that can't touch steel without leaving rusty fingerprints. If you're never supposed to touch them or let them touch each other, what about touching other stuff when you use them?

[uscra112]

+1 re: Meyer Gage.

Store them in plastic with a ZeRust coupon. I use these everywhere -

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=zerust&crid=H9N8YRKVBQ1N&sprefix=zerust%2Caps%2C2303&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

[rkrcpa]

I use a small wooden box with a hinged lid that I picked up at a craft store. I cut a piece of foam to fit the box and punched holes in the foam using an appropriately sized cartridge case. Cost me all of $4.

[Sig]

I'm now thinking of de-oiling all with lacquer thinner and then lightly spraying each with Kroil aerosol. I have some 2" x 2" 4mil zip loc bags, which I'll label and put one in each.
Think this will do?
Kroil was designed as a penetrating oil. There are better choices IMO for rust protection such as Boeshield or Fluid Film.

[Gtek]

My sets, one in the plastic box set they came in and the other set is a wood box with plastic material bottom, up a little and 2/3 the way up. I spray all and cover with oiled rag in boxes and lives in the A/C. I read cartridge box above, that seems like a good idea. Oiled, plastic bags rolled and in position with map in lid for locations.

[georgerkahn]

George what class of pins did you buy? For our uses with cylinders I use the ZZminus pins they are -.0002" so a ZZ minus pin marked .358" is actually .3578" so it will go in a .358" hole. A pin the same exact size as the hole will not go in the hole.

I like Meyer Gauge Co. ZZ Minus pins. You can order the individual pins from them, and they are USA made, quite affordable to buy single pins if you don't need too many. Here's the kicker though, .001" increments is too coarse for revolver work, one size fits loose, and the next pin up won't fit at all so I use (and highly recommend) the half thou pins.

Meyer gage uses a light colored wood for all their boxes, it looks like maple or poplar, not sure what it is but they keep the pins in good condition as long as the box stays closed. Want to know what really ruins pin gages faster than anything? Temperature changes induce condensation, then they rust. So if you open your shop door and it's warm outside everything in your shop is cold from a cool night, everything in your shop gets condensation on it.

Thank you, DougGuy for your wisdom! Cognizant of condensation-worries is the root of my initial/this storage question request! Some years back I "lost" quite a few Unimat collets which were stored in a milled wooden box to rust! :(. I purchased 320264 a half-dozen in assorted sizes, but sadly none are in the 1/2-thou pin sizes. Mine are "iMGages" brand from Amazon, labeled at, " 0.0002" tolerance, MINUS ". The pictures shows the cardboard box I now have them in -- each in a labeled 4-mil 2" x 2" plastic bag.
Do you store yours "dry"? I had sprayed mine with Kroil, and another fellow ( Sig ) suggested other products may be better. Hence, I may replace the Kroil with G96.
I had initially, too, sought a source for 1/2-thou pins, but could not find one. Actually, Amazon was my only source...
Thanks!
geo

[W.R.Buchanan]

Geo: You can buy little Desiccate Packages to put in your bags, or wipe them with a Silicon Gun Cloth. I have Meyer Gage Pin Sets in my shop I have had them for 40+ years and they have never rusted and I have never wiped them with anything. They ae made from very Hard steel which doesn't rust as easily as softer steels. If you keep them in a tool box with your other Precision Tools you shouldn't have any problems with rust. You can put a Big Desiccate Bag in the box to suck up any moisture. I have them in all my Safes as well as Golden Rod Electric Dehumidifiers.

Hot tip: keep all this stuff in your house as opposed to your garage ! Keep your guns in the house as well. Things don't usually rust in the house unless you live by the Ocean! But just to be sure, I wipe all my guns off with a Silicone Rag every time I get done handling them just to make sure I didn't leave any hand prints on them. You can do the same routine with your pins.

You need -.0002 pins !

Randy

[Valley-Shooter]

I work in a machine shop and use pin gauges every day to check size when using a boring bar. I rarely oil them. 80% of the job is working with bronze, no oils required. Pin gauges are made of tough polished steel. We also use them for alignment pins for the tools we make.
Of course I have a half set at home for measuring my revolver cylinders. Buying used is the cheapest if you want a full set.

[georgerkahn]

I work in a machine shop and use pin gauges every day to check size when using a boring bar. I rarely oil them. 80% of the job is working with bronze, no oils required. Pin gauges are made of tough polished steel. We also use them for alignment pins for the tools we make.
Of course I have a half set at home for measuring my revolver cylinders. Buying used is the cheapest if you want a full set.

Thank you! BUT, I'm a tad confused no doubt due to my ignorance on the subject. I have read posts citing a 0.007" variance in, say, cylinder size for the same caliber. I TRUST super-plus-machinests (like DougGuy) to tweak cylinders sent to hone and polish them to that 1/2-thou benchmark. But for me? I would think the pin gauges in .001" increments should/would do? My thought is to, say, check a .45 Colt cylinder with gauges, starting with the smallest that drops in on a hole marked with a Sharpie so I repeat same :). Then, I advance the cylinder-hole check with the other five. IF they are similar, I'm fine? BUT, if I cannot drop the pin gauge in one or more -- or if it freely drops -- then, say, the cylinder needs a trip to a machinist?
Kindly let me know if I'm on or off base?
Further, I spent more than a bit of time seeking a source of gauges in 1/2-thou increments to no avail. (I had been looking for one in 0.4525) I cannot get the Meyer Excel order sheet to come up -- I just get a blank page. (I may ring them?) Do you know of a source?
Anyhoos -- you can see I need help (in addition to the psychiatrist ;))
geo
geo

[uscra112]

McMaster-Carr

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/gauges/size-checking-gauge-class~zz/size-checking-gauge-class~z/class-z-go-plug-gauges/

[georgerkahn]

McMaster-Carr

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/gauges/size-checking-gauge-class~zz/size-checking-gauge-class~z/class-z-go-plug-gauges/

Thank you, uscra112 -- I just placed an order from them for the 1/2-thou's which seem germane to my present wee few. They can't but help being good fill-ins, and, at less than $6.00 each, are affordable for me.
Thanks again!
geo

SHOCK EDIT! I placed my order at 1:45PM NST (12:15 EST) and just received an eMail it was shipped from their New Jersey, USA facility, order in full, at 4:57PM NST (3:27 EST -- but a few minutes more than three hours! Wowser!!!!!!!

[uscra112]

If they don't have it, you don't need it. Their shipping ain't as cheap as Amazon, but everything is top quality and I often get the stuff the next day. I even buy steel stock for my little projects from them. Taking shipping into account, they're cheaper than Speedy Metals.

[405grain]

I use the same McMaster-Carr pin gauges that uscra112 recommended for zeroing in barrel blanks in the lathe. I get them in barrel bore diameter, and .0005" undersized for each caliber that I build a rifle on. No need to buy a whole set when I can purchase just the sizes that I need. These make it super easy to center a barrel blank along the bore axis, then thread, chamber, cut the muzzle crown, and contour the barrel, all with the barrel centered around the bore. When not in use I store them in ziplok bags with a squirt of way oil.

[rkrcpa]

McMaster-Carr is definitely the way to go.

I put together a small set that covers the calibers I need.

https://i.imgur.com/j4FJszDl.jpg

[uscra112]

SHOCK EDIT! I placed my order at 1:45PM NST (12:15 EST) and just received an eMail it was shipped from their New Jersey, USA facility, order in full, at 4:57PM NST (3:27 EST -- but a few minutes more than three hours! Wowser!!!!!!!

That's typical. How they do it is beyond me, but Amazon could take some lessons.

[Willbird]

Thank you! BUT, I'm a tad confused no doubt due to my ignorance on the subject. I have read posts citing a 0.007" variance in, say, cylinder size for the same caliber. I TRUST super-plus-machinests (like DougGuy) to tweak cylinders sent to hone and polish them to that 1/2-thou benchmark. But for me? I would think the pin gauges in .001" increments should/would do? My thought is to, say, check a .45 Colt cylinder with gauges, starting with the smallest that drops in on a hole marked with a Sharpie so I repeat same :). Then, I advance the cylinder-hole check with the other five. IF they are similar, I'm fine? BUT, if I cannot drop the pin gauge in one or more -- or if it freely drops -- then, say, the cylinder needs a trip to a machinist?
Kindly let me know if I'm on or off base?
Further, I spent more than a bit of time seeking a source of gauges in 1/2-thou increments to no avail. (I had been looking for one in 0.4525) I cannot get the Meyer Excel order sheet to come up -- I just get a blank page. (I may ring them?) Do you know of a source?
Anyhoos -- you can see I need help (in addition to the psychiatrist ;))
geo
geo

I used to work a lot with hole sizes as a machinist that had .0005" total tolerance, say .2510"-.2515" would be the total tolerance range. For that we had hole thousance pins in both + and -, and we also had half throusance pins again in both plus and minus. So a .251- should fit, and so should a .251+, a .2515- perhaps could go but really should not, and for sure a .2515+ should not. The more seasoned co workers would often say "it takes .0002" for a pin to go into a hole".

For revolver cylinder throats the pin gage will indeed get you close, and you could carefully tap a pure lead ball through with a dowel and measure it too I suppose. Everything needs to be supported or even better disassembled so you are not beating on the crane of a double action revolver. I can see no real reason that we would need to know the size within a .0001, but a guy honing the hole on a sunnen hone would use a combination of pins like I explained above and when he was done all 6 would be within a .0001 or two.

Oh yea, and the thing about not TOUCHING pins, total BS LOL.

[DougGuy]

MEYER GAUGE Co. is a LOT cheaper than McMaster Carr last time I checked.

[uscra112]

Maybe so, but he was having trouble getting Meyer's web site to work.

[DougGuy]

Maybe so, but he was having trouble getting Meyer's web site to work.

I always just called them and gave them my order that way. you'll get a live person very easy.

McMaster Carr lists country of origin for their pins, but they bury that information so you have to click on one item, click on product details then login or create an account and login to see where they were made. PITA

[uscra112]

Most people could. I'm too deaf to use a phone easily, FWIW.

I just for fun comped a typical range of individual pins such as we'd use - McMaster was just ~$0.65 more. I haven't had cause to order any pins from anybody for a 3-4 years, but I seem to remember that Meyer had a minimum order. McMaster doesn't, and their shipping is extremely fast, albeit sometimes rather expensive.

[hylander]

I went to McMaster site and they don't say plus or minus.
Went to the myers site and can't open the price sheet

[elmacgyver0]

If you are really anal about it, keep them in a jar of motor oil.

[uscra112]

I went to McMaster site and they don't say plus or minus.

Yes they do. "Go" pins are plus tolerance, "No Go" pins are minus tolerance. Third column from the left in the Class Z tables.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.meyergage.com/abcs-of-gages/differences-between-z-zz-classes-of-gages/

[alamogunr]

I got my set on Ebay. It was missing a few pins and I took a chance that the missing ones would not be needed. So far that is the case. The whole set in a wood box was about $75 incl. shipping(very heavy). Also it is Meyer brand. I don't remember if it is ZZ class or not but it is minus.

I do remember it took a lot of looking on Ebay to find a set that covered the range(.250 to .500) I wanted. I was mainly looking to check revolver cylinder throats.

[Valley-Shooter]

(I had been looking for one in 0.4525) I cannot get the Meyer Excel order sheet to come up -- I just get a blank page. (I may ring them?) Do you know of a source?

geo
geo

We buy all our pins from MSC. My shop buys a couple hundred every year.
Here is a .4525 pin.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/89045256

[Pete57]

Just rap them in an oil rag