I am having an issue with Lee 44 special die and .432 cast bullet

[bcraig]

a while back I bought a Lee 3 die pass through 44 Special and bought some Matts 250 Grain Plain Base Hollow Point Bullets sized to .432.

Set up the dies on my Lee Hand Press today and resized 5 cases then was going to set the seating length to the small crimp groove and the bullet would not fit in the case,Kept fiddling with it and was able to flare the case enough to set a bullet in the case somewhat but when I tried to seat the bullet and set the crimp I noticed that there were 2 or 3 slivers of lead that had been pushed out to the crimp groove,20:1 alloy
The flare or bell is enough but apparently it does not go back far enough?
I was able to crimp a couple of dummy rounds but feel like I am wasting my time as I was wanting to fit the barrel of my Rossi 92 which comes out about .431 using a Micrometer .


Any way , can I buy a Larger expander plug to fit the Lee die ?
Is that going to solve the issue ?

The Lee dies are a set of 3 with the powder through .

[gunther]

Can you decap a fired case without sizing? Then prime, flare, add powder and seat the bullet. See if it will chamber. If it will, load several this way and see if they shoot, and group.

[Bazoo]

Giving it more flare will keep the case mouth from scraping lead as the bullet is seated. However, It sounds like your expander is too small for your bullet diameter.

Your expanding die needs to be no more than .002 smaller than the diameter of your bullet to prevent the bullet base from being swaged smaller by the case walls. You have to make sure the length of the expander is sufficient as well. If your bullet is for example .370 from the crimp groove to the base, but your expander only expands the brass down to .350, you will have your bases swaged. It will effectively turn your bullets into bevel based bullets. It may or may not cause a problem. Gas checked bullets don't have that issue as the GC resists swaging.

What you need is an NOE expander plug sized 434x430 for your bullets. It should fit in your die body but it'll "float" up and down, you'd need to find something to fill the gap so that it doesn't move up too far (your shell holder will bottom out on the die body with shorter cases, you may get away with it with 44 Special but I doubt it). A short section of pipe or dowel rod would suffice.

Or you can buy the Lee universal expander die, and use that. Their expander plugs are more of a flare tool than an expander. But you get the die body, then you can use the NOE plug in the body, and use one of the Lee expander plugs on top of it. When you assemble the end cap it squeezes them together and the plug no longer moves up and down freely.

[bcraig]

No I cant but the thing is this is once fired starling brass that came from some 44 special HSM 240 Grain Semiwadcutter factory ammo amd the bullet fit on top of the case without being flared at all,I do know that the HSM is about 850 fps when fired from a 5.5 revolver.
Using tite group Powder according to the Factory Rep that I talked with so dont know if the case even expanded to full diameter.

[bcraig]

Giving it more flare will keep the case mouth from scraping lead as the bullet is seated. However, It sounds like your expander is too small for your bullet diameter.

I think that is true

Your expanding die needs to be no more than .002 smaller than the diameter of your bullet to prevent the bullet base from being swaged smaller by the case walls. You have to make sure the length of the expander is sufficient as well. If your bullet is for example .370 from the crimp groove to the base, but your expander only expands the brass down to .350, you will have your bases swaged. It will effectively turn your bullets into bevel based bullets. It may or may not cause a problem. Gas checked bullets don't have that issue as the GC resists swaging.
I took the expanderout of the die and checked with the mic and at the ende that first goes into the case it showed .428 and taoers going toward the fat partand the lat place i can get a solid read is bout .440'
nd is too short by bout the width of the the band right above the grease groove.

What you need is an NOE expander plug sized 434x430 for your bullets. It should fit in your die body but it'll "float" up and down, you'd need to find something to fill the gap so that it doesn't move up too far (your shell holder will bottom out on the die body with shorter cases, you may get away with it with 44 Special but I doubt it). A short section of pipe or dowel rod would suffice.

What does the 434x430 mean ?
Yes the factory expander plug in it has quite a bit of up and down to it.
I have several pieces of dowel rod.

Or you can buy the Lee universal expander die, and use that. Their expander plugs are more of a flare tool than an expander. But you get the die body, then you can use the NOE plug in the body, and use one of the Lee expander plugs on top of it. When you assemble the end cap it squeezes them together and the plug no longer moves up and down freely.

Where can I take a look at the NOE expander Plug?

Thank's

[Bazoo]

434x430 is NOEs numbering system. It means that the expanding plug's upper portion that creates the step is .434, and the main section is .430 in diameter. The step makes a little "shelf" inside the case and gives clearance for a bullet to set down inside the case. Here is the link, 434x430 (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-casting-reloading/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/434-x-430-p-exp-plug/)

[45workhorse]

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-casting-reloading/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/434-x-430-p-exp-plug/


Here it is.

[bcraig]

Thanks

[bcraig]

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-casting-reloading/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/434-x-430-p-exp-plug/


Here it is.

Thank's

[bcraig]

434x430 is NOEs numbering system. It means that the expanding plug's upper portion that creates the step is .434, and the main section is .430 in diameter. The step makes a little "shelf" inside the case and gives clearance for a bullet to set down inside the case. Here is the link, 434x430 (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-casting-reloading/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/434-x-430-p-exp-plug/)

How much further will the Plug reach down into the case?

[Bazoo]

How much further will the Plug reach down into the case?

I have a 433x429 plug, which will be identical in length. Max length it will expand is .350.

[jetinteriorguy]

I use NOE powder through expanders in all my pistols along with a Lee Pro Disc. Fantastic product and a great company to deal with. Best communication ever, any questions just call and leave a message. Most calls are returned the same day or within 24 hours.

[bcraig]

I just got off the phone with the guy that sells the expander plugs for the Lee expander die that I have and going to be a few weeks before he has some more but I can wait till then.

Nice guy to talk with on the phone.

Thanks to all for the help.

[lightload]

I just got off the phone with the guy that sells the expander plugs for the Lee expander die that I have and going to be a few weeks before he has some more but I can wait till then.

Nice guy to talk with on the phone.

Thanks to all for the help.

I have a Lyman M die in 44 cal. That will solve your problem. PM me your address. I'll send it to you. Pay the postage.

[bcraig]

I have a Lyman M die in 44 cal. That will solve your problem. PM me your address. I'll send it to you. Pay the postage.

That's Very Nice of you

Sent you a PM

[Bazoo]

I have a Lyman M die in 44 cal. That will solve your problem. PM me your address. I'll send it to you. Pay the postage.

Very nice gesture!

[bcraig]

Giving it more flare will keep the case mouth from scraping lead as the bullet is seated. However, It sounds like your expander is too small for your bullet diameter.

Your expanding die needs to be no more than .002 smaller than the diameter of your bullet to prevent the bullet base from being swaged smaller by the case walls. You have to make sure the length of the expander is sufficient as well. If your bullet is for example .370 from the crimp groove to the base, but your expander only expands the brass down to .350, you will have your bases swaged. It will effectively turn your bullets into bevel based bullets. It may or may not cause a problem. Gas checked bullets don't have that issue as the GC resists swaging.

What you need is an NOE expander plug sized 434x430 for your bullets. It should fit in your die body but it'll "float" up and down, you'd need to find something to fill the gap so that it doesn't move up too far (your shell holder will bottom out on the die body with shorter cases, you may get away with it with 44 Special but I doubt it). A short section of pipe or dowel rod would suffice.

Or you can buy the Lee universal expander die, and use that. Their expander plugs are more of a flare tool than an expander. But you get the die body, then you can use the NOE plug in the body, and use one of the Lee expander plugs on top of it. When you assemble the end cap it squeezes them together and the plug no longer moves up and down freely.

I got the Powder through 434x430 Expander Plug along with the Powder Through exp plug adapter and the powder through exp plug over travel ring.
cost was $17.50 plus 8.05 Shipping for a Total of $25.55

After taking the Lee Factory Expander Plug out and putting the 3 pieces and a little tweeking on the die was was able to push the .432 Bullet into the 44 special case easily down to the crimp ring and when I took the dummy round out of the shell holder I was able to pull the bullet from the 44 special case with my fingers and insert a new bullet into the case with very little finger pressure .
I am going to readjust the the die to get a little more case tension on the Bullet to make sure the bullet does not push into the case after A Medium roll crimp is applied and worked through the Rossi 92 carbine.

That and about 5.5 grains of HP-38 should get me about where I want to be.

I also used Some JB putty to put into the bullet seating stem and will see if that solves the issue of the Big Hollowpoint closing up when using the Factory round nose bullet Seating plug.
And I expect it to.

Thank you much for the Advice

[Three44s]

The Lyman "M" die is a very useful expander die. Two more sides of the equation is to make sure you are inside deburring your case mouths and not excessively under sizing your cases in the first place.

I use a VLD deburring tool almost exclusively lately.

As for over sizing brass, that's a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. While carbide sizer dies are very prevalent now, they are not very conducive to lapping to a larger size for lay folks. While different die makers have different sizing criteria it's not easy to get info from them as to specific dimensions.

Other than trial and error, that of buying dies until you fall into one that sizes less, it leaves one to buying a steel die and laaping/having it lapped out somewhat.

Three44s

[mdi]

Shaving boolits when searing? Add more flare. Trying to push a .432" slug into a .429" tube can be pretty difficult. Bullets, cast and others, need an entry way into the case. That entry way is case mouth flare...
K.I.S.S.!

[longbow]

I have a fat bored Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. and find that the carbide dies really size... over size the brass, then when I seat my 0.434" boolits the loaded rounds look funny because they are bulging under the boolit! They chamber and fire fine but as noted, case mouths are chamfered and deburred then flared. I also keep the brass annealed. If you have the correct size expander plug you may not have to worry about annealing so much but I was finding that the brass was squeezing down the boolit base a bit during seating.

I should see about getting sizing dies that are larger or can be opened up as the brass is being worked a lot with oversizing then expanding. You will be in the same situation. However, with the proper size expander plug you should have better results.

Longbow

[leadhead]

Are those NOE expander plugs drilled for powder thru like the Lee?
Thanks for any info.

[bcraig]

I have a fat bored Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. and find that the carbide dies really size... over size the brass, then when I seat my 0.434" boolits the loaded rounds look funny because they are bulging under the boolit! They chamber and fire fine but as noted, case mouths are chamfered and deburred then flared. I also keep the brass annealed. If you have the correct size expander plug you may not have to worry about annealing so much but I was finding that the brass was squeezing down the boolit base a bit during seating.

I should see about getting sizing dies that are larger or can be opened up as the brass is being worked a lot with oversizing then expanding. You will be in the same situation. However, with the proper size expander plug you should have better results.

Longbow

Like I said the NOE Powder through expanding Plug and the other parts I listed solved the Issue.

Also without even sizing the case it was way too small and even with a severe belling the bullet would barely start to enter the case and then the soft bullet was being shaved when brought to the crimp groove ..I needed a bigger expander plug and a longer expander plug,not just a Mouth belling.

[bcraig]

Are those NOE expander plugs drilled for powder thru like the Lee?
Thanks for any info.

Some are and some are not.

[bcraig]

Shaving boolits when searing? Add more flare. Trying to push a .432" slug into a .429" tube can be pretty difficult. Bullets, cast and others, need an entry way into the case. That entry way is case mouth flare...
K.I.S.S.!

More to the story than that.
Cases were small when coming straight from the rifles chamber ,without resizing at all the bullet was just sitting on top of the chamber.
Only after doing an Inside chamfering and a pretty severe belling would the Bullet just Barely slip inside the case .
and the expander plug was not going deep enough which was shaving the 20-1 (approx 10 BHN bullet.)
So just a good belling was not solving the issues I wanted solved
The Lee expander plug was too small,it was too short for the soft Bullets I wanted to shoot from my rifle.
The NOE 434-430 expander Plug and the Parts I listed solved that Issue.
No amount of additional flare or belling was going to solve those issue's in MY rifle .

Maybe one with a looser chamber and or a Hotter Load than the HSM Factory Loaded 240Grain 4.5 grains of titegroup would have expanded the whole case more ?
maybe that and a harder bullet would have had no lead shaving ?
I dont know .

But so far the issues are all fine now.

[bcraig]

The Lyman "M" die is a very useful expander die. Two more sides of the equation is to make sure you are inside deburring your case mouths and not excessively under sizing your cases in the first place.

I use a VLD deburring tool almost exclusively lately.

As for over sizing brass, that's a whole 'nuther kettle of fish. While carbide sizer dies are very prevalent now, they are not very conducive to lapping to a larger size for lay folks. While different die makers have different sizing criteria it's not easy to get info from them as to specific dimensions.

Other than trial and error, that of buying dies until you fall into one that sizes less, it leaves one to buying a steel die and laaping/having it lapped out somewhat.

Three44s

I was using a Cheap Lee deburring tool and I was not sizing too much as the cases were straight from firing In my Rossi 92 Carbine with HSM 240 grain semi wadcitter's .
With the Noe setup a couple of light turns with the hand tool and all is fine.
Dont even know if that is really needed or not.

[gloob]

bcraig, you might want to try sizing those cases, now that you have a proper expander.

The mouth might be too small to fit a 432 bullet, straight out of your Rossi, but you should not be able to pull a seated bullet out with your fingers!

I use expanders 2 thous larger than yours. When seating a 432 bullet, I would buy the NOE 432/436, if they offer it. There will still be 100% neck tension when doing this, if the brass is adequately sized to begin with. Even without a crimp, boolits cannot be pulled out with fingers. And if the case was squeaky clean and there's a lot of seating area, maybe not even with a kinetic bullet puller!

The chamber in your Rossi is tight at the very mouth. But there's obviously some expansion of the case where the base of the bullet seats. I have a chamber like this, and there's another thing to watch out for.

If the mouth of the brass doesn't have enough room to open out, to where you need a bit of roll crimp just to even get the ammo to drop in the chamber under gravity, then the mouth of the case is going to swage the bullet as it's fired. If this swaged size is smaller than the bore, then you'll have to hope to find an alloy and load combo that bumps the boolit back up. I sort out the thicker cases that produce this problem in my gun, and I give the case mouths a bit of turning to thin them down so this doesn't happen.

As for case chamfer, yes. When the NOE flare step is only 2 thous larger than the bullet, I find you must inside chamfer cases to ensure there are no shavings. When you get to 3 over on the step flare, you don't need to do that, even after a trim that leaves a sharp inside edge. When you get to 4 over, the rim of the mouth will be very slightly floating off the surface of the boolit, and you might start requiring a light crimp in tight chambers.

[Chill Wills]

I am not sure you want a slip fit that the bullet can be hand seated. At least 0.001 or 0.002" on the bullet is good. Also, expect some spring-back after the expander opens up the case. Expanders can be had in any size needed.

[bcraig]

bcraig, you might want to try sizing those cases, now that you have a proper expander.

The mouth might be too small to fit a 432 bullet, straight out of your Rossi, but you should not be able to pull a seated bullet out with your fingers!

I use expanders 2 thous larger than yours. When seating a 432 bullet, I would buy the NOE 432/436, if they offer it. There will still be 100% neck tension when doing this, if the brass is adequately sized to begin with. Even without a crimp, boolits cannot be pulled out with fingers. And if the case was squeaky clean and there's a lot of seating area, maybe not even with a kinetic bullet puller!

The chamber in your Rossi is tight at the very mouth. But there's obviously some expansion of the case where the base of the bullet seats. I have a chamber like this, and there's another thing to watch out for.

If the mouth of the brass doesn't have enough room to open out, to where you need a bit of roll crimp just to even get the ammo to drop in the chamber under gravity, then the mouth of the case is going to swage the bullet as it's fired. If this swaged size is smaller than the bore, then you'll have to hope to find an alloy and load combo that bumps the boolit back up. I sort out the thicker cases that produce this problem in my gun, and I give the case mouths a bit of turning to thin them down so this doesn't happen.

As for case chamfer, yes. When the NOE flare step is only 2 thous larger than the bullet, I find you must inside chamfer cases to ensure there are no shavings. When you get to 3 over on the step flare, you don't need to do that, even after a trim that leaves a sharp inside edge. When you get to 4 over, the rim of the mouth will be very slightly floating off the surface of the boolit, and you might start requiring a light crimp in tight chambers.

No Shaving of the bullet when using the Noe 434-430
Tad less than .431 Bore ,Land to Land
Using 20/1 10 Brinell Hardness
About 14,000 Pressure Using Hp-38
Dont know if that will Obturate?
I will try dropping a round in the chamber and see what Happens.

[bcraig]

I am not sure you want a slip fit that the bullet can be hand seated. At least 0.001 or 0.002" on the bullet is good. Also, expect some spring-back after the expander opens up the case. Expanders can be had in any size needed.

M die expander ?

[Jtarm]

I am not sure you want a slip fit that the bullet can be hand seated. At least 0.001 or 0.002" on the bullet is good. Also, expect some spring-back after the expander opens up the case. Expanders can be had in any size needed.

What he said.

I aim to hand-seat the bullet to just above the base driving band so it presents as straight as possible.

Spring back is worse with thicker cases. I went through all my thousands of .38 special cases and purged all of the Euro brass, which seems to be thicker than domestic.

[onelight]

To each his own but I would not be comfortable with bullets that could be seated and pulled with my bare hands in anything but a single shot rifle .
Case expansion .002 smaller than bullet diameter is consider perfect by many experienced cast reloaders you need that neck tension and a crimp for safety and consistent burn with many guns and loads . As has been said the flare on the case mouth is what will prevent shaving the bullet.
I use the Noe expanders on 44 special and they are great but the flare I add with the factory Lee 44 special powder through die in a station separate from the NOE expander .
You may need to seat your Lee powder through expander deeper in the case to adjust to the proper flare.
Your die may not be working normally but I have many sets of Lee pistol dies and they all will adjust to give flare for cast.

[gloob]

He doesn't have neck tension because he's not sizing his cases. Right out of his gun's chamber, the very mouth of the case is too small to get a boolit in there, so he thinks he can forgo sizing. But the case below the very mouth is obviously too big/loose. He needs to size his cases, then use the expander. His expander isn't too big. It's at least 2 thous smaller than it could be.


No Shaving of the bullet when using the Noe 434-430
Yeah, but you just finished saying how you lightly deburred your cases, already:


I was using a Cheap Lee deburring tool and I was not sizing too much as the cases were straight from firing In my Rossi 92 Carbine with HSM 240 grain semi wadcitter's .
With the Noe setup a couple of light turns with the hand tool and all is fine.
Dont even know if that is really needed or not.

When your flare step is only 2 thous, 434 flare step for a 432 bullet, I find you have to do an inside chamfer/debur after trimming, for cases that need to be trimmed. For 44 magnum doesn't matter. You will only ever trim/debur them once.

[Jtarm]

I don’t get the need for flaring in addition to running the NOE expander.

I run the case just barely over the second shoulder (indicated by the arrow.). That gives enough flare to get the base of the bullet past the mouth without damage.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231220/904b684a92ca57fe287db4dbaa2f8bf1.jpg

The large diameter portion (+.002) goes 1/10” deep. If everything’s the right dimensions, I can press the bullet in just that far, so it’s good & straight.

The seater die handles the rest.

[gloob]

I set the die so the first step barely enters, and the "second step" doesn't touch the case.

That "second step," is just where the die ends. It's not a standard amount larger than the step flare.

[Bazoo]

I don’t get the need for flaring in addition to running the NOE expander.

I run the case just barely over the second shoulder (indicated by the arrow.). That gives enough flare to get the base of the bullet past the mouth without damage.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231220/904b684a92ca57fe287db4dbaa2f8bf1.jpg

The large diameter portion (+.002) goes 1/10” deep. If everything’s the right dimensions, I can press the bullet in just that far, so it’s good & straight.

The seater die handles the rest.

I do this to get maximum length for my RCBS 44-250-K.


I set the die so the first step barely enters, and the "second step" doesn't touch the case.

That "second step," is just where the die ends. It's not a standard amount larger than the step flare.
Anytime I can get away with it, I do closer to this, usually about half the way up the first step.

[Jtarm]

I set the die so the first step barely enters, and the "second step" doesn't touch the case.

That "second step," is just where the die ends. It's not a standard amount larger than the step flare.

Without hitting that second step, I can’t get the base past the case mouth.

Forgot to mention: I’m loading full wadcutters, so I need some depth.

[Chill Wills]

If I may, so we are all on the same page using terms, in the picture above the upper most diameter is the flair and the shoulder below it connect the two cylinders of different diameters.
Normally, in a correctly sized expander, the smaller cylinder is 0.002" or so smaller than the diameter of the bullet to be used. This depends on how much you want to hug the seated bullet. The upper cylinder is 0.002" over the diameter of the bullet and is plenty large enough to start and seat the bullet with-out shaving lead. In the rare event there is an issue, built into the expander above the upper, larger cylinder is a flair that you can trumpet the case mouth as much as you want.

Lyman M-dies come in common calibers and in one size. If you bullet is in the middle of that range the Lyman die will work very well. Lyman does not list the numbers. If you have LEE dies, the very good NOE replacement is the way to go. The price is right and they are offered in a number of sizes. I can make custom sizes to any diameters you think you need. These are hand made.

In use, you would want to set the die up so just 0.050" to 0.100" of the (upper) large diameter cylinder, (not the flair) enters the case mouth so as to expand the case mouth just large enough to start the bullet. The long, bullet length lower cylinder, puts just the right amount of hold on the bullet. This replacement expander is larger than the stock expander, which is a compromise, made for jacketed bullets and cast, In some stock die sets, the smaller factory expander -squeeze- is so tight, it reduces the diameter of the seated bullet. Our carefully cast and sized bullets get altered before they even enter the barrel.

[gloob]

Normally, in a correctly sized expander, the smaller cylinder is 0.002" or so smaller than the diameter of the bullet to be used. This depends on how much you want to hug the seated bullet. The upper cylinder is 0.002" over the diameter of the bullet and is plenty large enough to start and seat the bullet with-out shaving lead.


The case will shrink after you withdraw the plug, provided it was sized properly to begin with. The exact amount of springback will vary with the alloy and workhardening/annealing, but it will generally be about 1.5 and 2 thousandths. That 1.5-2 thousandths of springiness is where neck tension comes from. So you will get 100% neck tension from an expander plug that is the same size as the boolit. The tension won't start to decrease until the plug gets larger than the boolit and will be completely gone by the time you're 2 over.

If the flare step is only 2 thous larger than the bullet, a bullet will just barely get started in there and seated without shavings, if mouth is chamfered. 3 thous is perfect. 4 thous starts to get a tiny bit excessive.

[Chill Wills]

I don't agree. Experience shows the spring back to be smaller. I think your estimate of 0.0015' to 0.002" spring back is way to big. Yes, I agree there will be some spring and it depends on the hardness v anneal state of your brass. I never anneal my revolver brass and measured spring back is a < thousandth. This system works for untold numbers of hand loaders.

The remedy is simple for anyone thinking their brass is different, order the expander in a custom size.

[gloob]

It doesn't matter if your brass is different and springs back more or less. However elastic it is, that's what holds the bullet in. If your brass only springs back half a thous, then after you withdraw an expander that is 432, it will shrink to 431.5 and give 100% of its neck tension to a 432 bullet.

If you use an expander that is 430, it shrinks to 429.5. Now you put your 432 bullet in. It has same half a thous of tension. After you pull the bullet, the case mouth will measures 41.5, just like the 432 expander left it. Your boolit finished the last 2 thous of expansion, itself. Hopefully it didn't get swaged in the process.

My brass cases springback 1.5-2 thous. Even using an expander that is 1 thous larger than the bullet leaves close to full tension. Hard to tell any difference. 2 thous larger, and it's game over.

[Chill Wills]

Do what ever you think works for you. I will too.

[gloob]

A Lee Universal Flare die will work for most reloaders in most calibers, just fine. Standardization is so good in most calibers, firearms, brass, and die makers that the case is barely smaller than necessary, right out of the sizing die.

So w/e you think will work, it probably will.

But if you need an expander for a specific bullet because you have problems with boolit swaging or concentricty in seating in that caliber (thick cases, tight sizing die, soft boolits), you are wasting your time to go 2 under bullet diameter on purpose unless some of your boolits are 2 thous undersized and that's just how you roll.

With cast, you want to fill the freebore as much as you can to limit blowby. Any swaging of the base will allow more blowby before the bore gets plugged. If a plug 2 under fixed an actual problem, one that is 0 under would have fixed it a little more. Maybe if you worked your load up a little more, you'd see the difference. Maybe if you shot from a bench, you'd notice the difference. Maybe you never will. But you bought a plug that is 2 under for no reason at all, if your boolits go through a sizer and you're going to screen out undersize boolits anyhow.

9x19 (due to the thick tapered case and large tolerance in chamber/bore sizes) and 308 (due to chamber/bore sizes in some rifles) are 2 calibers where casters often require more than a mouth flare or stock expander to get boolit seated without swaging. In most revolver calibers it doesn't even matter.

[onelight]

Something to consider with a lever gun , the stack of cartridges in the magazine and the power of the mag spring are trying to compress the whole stack particularly when cycling and under recoil , this can force a bullet deeper in the case and raise pressure so it is important to have the right combination of expander length , neck tension and crimp.
Better safe than sorry . Hope you find a good safe solution.

I got to thinking after posting that your gun may be a single shot so this would not apply .

[bcraig]

I experimented a little last night.

First I dropped a round with a chamfered case with the bullet seated by hand to the crimp groove and if I eased the round into the chamber there was no movement of the bullet in the case,If I just lined up the bullet and dropped the dummy into the chamber then it moved just a hair.

Then I used an unchamfered case that had been sized and finally got it right where I wanted it in the crimp groove ,then Loade the dummy in the Tubular Magazine and worked the lever very
very fas and it loaded just fine ,then reloaded it in the tubular magazine and worked the lever very slow and although it loaded it felt like there was a small glitch .

I ejected the dummy and noticed that I could feel and see the top of the case where it met the bullet.

Will a small amount of inside of case chamfer solve that issue ?

[gloob]

Not sure you even have an issue. If I were you, I'd chamfer all my 44 cases, once. Then you won't get any shavings when seating. You don't have excessive mouth flare with a 2-over step. Even if you have a couple thous too much flare, it usually can't stop the cartridge from chambering. It would normally just takes a light push to send it home, beyond gravity.

If your chamber is super tight right at the case mouth, then you'll have more problem where some of your cartridges won't quite fully chamber unless you put a slight inwards taper/roll crimp on the case mouth so that they fit. This means your boolits will be swaged when they are fired, because that crimp doesn't have room to open back up. Removing small amounts of brass from the case mouth will stop that, but a chamfer tool probably won't do the trick unless you actually shorten the cases a few thous.

You should be crimping into the crimp groove, because you're using a tubular magazine. But I would test to make sure cartridges will fully chamfer, even without any crimp. Because you mentioned before that your boolits can't fit in your fired cases, so you know it's pretty tight.

Be sure to clean any carbon out of your chamber, if it hasn't been cleaned in long while.

[bcraig]

Not sure you even have an issue. If I were you, I'd chamfer all my 44 cases, once. Then you won't get any shavings when seating. You don't have excessive mouth flare with a 2-over step. Even if you have a couple thous too much flare, it usually can't stop the cartridge from chambering. It would normally just takes a light push to send it home, beyond gravity.

I did chamfer the Cases tonight ,I flared one too much and it would not go onto the Seating die so I resized it again and then took the expander die and flared it less that time.

If your chamber is super tight right at the case mouth, then you'll have more problem where some of your cartridges won't quite fully chamber unless you put a slight inwards taper/roll crimp on the case mouth so that they fit. This means your boolits will be swaged when they are fired, because that crimp doesn't have room to open back up. Removing small amounts of brass from the case mouth will stop that, but a chamfer tool probably won't do the trick unless you actually shorten the cases a few thous.
No problem with Round chambering .

You should be crimping into the crimp groove, because you're using a tubular magazine. But I would test to make sure cartridges will fully chamfer, even without any crimp. Because you mentioned before that your boolits can't fit in your fired cases, so you know it's pretty tight.

I put a pretty good roll crimp in the Crimp groove.

Be sure to clean any carbon out of your chamber, if it hasn't been cleaned in long while.

I dont think that there will be much carbon in the chamber as I have not shot it over 10 times or so with HSM 240 grain semi-wadcutter's but will check it for sure.

I have not shot it at all with any reloads,and this is the first I have reloaded for a Pistol round for about 35 years