Favorite general purpose lube ?

[Wolfdog91]

For 30 cal up to 2500fps in a Lyman 450

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[waco]

Lars 2500+
Works well for me in my .308 running the XCB bullet at 2600fps and holding 2MOA at 500 yards.
https://youtu.be/l9VDouNYi7A?si=6oa2ohnPXm5zfv7q

[ShooterAZ]

I second the White Label 2500+ lube. I have gone to using it in just about everything now.

[Winger Ed.]

For all my rifle boolits, I've always used Lyman Orange Magic.
It's kind of pricey, but in this age of $20. a case beer, and people thinking $7.oo for a cup of coffee is fine,
and no more of it than I use,,,, I just give 'em their money and move on.

Sometimes, I add one on to bump an order up enough to get free shipping.
Looking at it that way, it's more or less free.

[gwpercle]

Lithium - Beeswax , known commercially as Lithi-Bee Lube .
Consists of :
1 part lithium grease (Lucas Red-N-Tacky)
3 parts beeswax

The commercial maker told me they used 8 lbs. lithium grease with 24 lbs beeswax when they made a batch ... he no longer makes lube ...or I would still buy the premade sticks for my Lyman 450 .
Now I make it in a slow cooker with 1 lb Lucas R-N-T and 3 lbs beeswax .
I fill the 450 lube chamber with hot lube and let it cool and harden ... I never had luck making hollow sticks... so I cheat !
This makes a soft lube . I like soft lubes but
If you like a harder lube you can add up to 1 part Gulf Wax , hard paraffin wax , to get a firmer / harder consistency ... start by adding 1/4 or 1/2 lb of Gulf Wax , add just enough to firm up , no more .

I've tried all manner of lube over the last 50 years but keep coming back to Lithi-Bee ... Never a leading problem with it ... it simply works .
Use in all handgun and 30 cal. rifle : 30-30 , 30-06 , 7,5 Swiss and 303 British
Gary

[Screwbolts]

Simple Lube made as the sticky above in the Lube section. It works for me is hot summer and Cold NY winters. It just works for all my needs from 22 K-Hornet to 50BMG.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you are gonna buy some, White Label lubes is the place to buy from, I prefer Carnuba Red as it's not as tacky as 2500+ ...but knowing the basic formula of 2500+ lube, it's also a good choice.
BUT
If you want to make your own, I would suggest 666+1 (satan's lube). see post #5 for recipe
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?232371-Hey-357-maximum-lubes&p=2653932&viewfull=1#post2653932

[charlie b]

I started out with Ben's Red back when I pan lubed. When I got the lubesizer I tried Fryxell's black (moly grease and beeswax). I became leery of using moly so I went back to Ben's but, now use a simpler version, basically Lithi-Bee. I typically add some carnuba to stiffen it.

As you can tell, just about anything will work. If I were to buy some I'd go to White Label.

[dale2242]

NRA 50/50.
Alox/Beeswax.
It`s the only lube that I`ve used in 60 years of casting.

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned either the White label 2500+ or the NRA 50/50 lubes are the best to use. I use both from miniscule handgun and cat's sneeze loads at 500 fpe +?_ up through 3000 fps loads.

I conducted an extensive test of 13 different lubes at 2500 fps. The 2500+ and 50/50 lubes produced the best accuracy. The results are buried in the RPM threads but I can repost if you want?

[waksupi]

One of our late members, Felix, came up with a great lube that many of us have used for years.
It is known as Felix World Famous Lube (FWFL). Do a search, you should find it easily. I may even be a sticky. I've used it to around 2700 fps.

[marshall623]

I use 2500+ in everything with excellent results

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[stubshaft]

I use BAC for my pistol loads and LBT Blue for most of my rifle loads.

[BD]

One of our late members, Felix, came up with a great lube that many of us have used for years.
It is known as Felix World Famous Lube (FWFL). Do a search, you should find it easily. I may even be a sticky. I've used it to around 2700 fps.

I’ve been using Felix lube for everything for at least 20 years. No issues at all up to 2500fps or so.

[Bigslug]

I've shifted over to 2500+; the cost of store-bought lube being negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Ben's Red slightly stiffened with extra beeswax is a good recipe to have in your back pocket for a home brew. While I found it to be pretty messy for auto pistols and revolvers (and wouldn't want to try it in anything with a gas system), it's fantastic for anything with a closed breech sending everything out the muzzle.

[charlie b]

As mentioned either the White label 2500+ or the NRA 50/50 lubes are the best to use. I use both from miniscule handgun and cat's sneeze loads at 500 fpe +?_ up through 3000 fps loads.

I conducted an extensive test of 13 different lubes at 2500 fps. The 2500+ and 50/50 lubes produced the best accuracy. The results are buried in the RPM threads but I can repost if you want?

Larry, please do. I need to add it to my collection of your testing.

[jdgabbard]

I used to bother making various Lube recipes back when I was still lubing stuff. Now I PC all my boolits. But when I got tired of making lube I eventually settled on Carnuba Red. It was a fantastic general purpose lube. These days, I've been considering playing around with lubed PC boolits in some rifle loads. And I'd probably try it first if I decide to do that. But, I haven't kept up much with the lube options over the last 10 years or so...

[Shiloh]

White Label BAC
for everything. Nothing faster than 1825 in my usage.

Shiloh

[Bazoo]

I use White Label 50/50 for everything, but I don't push the envelope with high power rifles either. I do run it full pressure in 30-30, with a gas checked bullet of course.

I too would like to see Larry's testing again.

[sigep1764]

I PC some of my boolits. The others get Carnuba Blue. Have not found its upper limit yet.

[Larry Gibson]

HV Lube Test (14 lubes) Results

First I want to thank all who donated lubes, GCs, reloading equipment and some money to assist in the completion of this test. Without your help and assistance the test would not have been as extensive nor as easy to complete. Thank you all.

My purpose in conducting this test was not to prove any lube better than any other lube. I also did not favor any of these lubes but conducted the test equally with each of them. My purpose in conducting this test is to find out which lube(s) work best at the higher velocities we are now using (2600 – 3000+ fps).

I managed to get to the range early the day before Christmas to conduct to lube test. It was supposed to be a bright sunny day with 0 – 4 mph winds reaching the high 50’s. However a cold front came through early so it was a colder 44 – 48 degree day that became overcast just before noon. Fortunately the wind remained calm most of the day but did pick up to about 3 mph late in the tests. The wind was out of 5 – 6 o’clock so it did not measureable effect the results.

The 14 lubes tested were (in order of test);


Javelina
White Label 2500+
2700+
Tac 1
Bullshop LOTAK
Felix FWFL (original batch)
Tac X
LBT Blue
Voodoo
White Label Carnauba Red
Lyman’s Orange Magic
Gear’s SL-68
Gear’s SL-68.1
Lyman’s Super Moly

NOE 30 XCB bullets cast of #2 alloy and WQ’s with a BHN of 22 – 23 were visually sorted (twice) for defects and weight sorted with the selected bullets at 158.7 +/- .1 gr. The selected 30 XCBs , after 30+ days of aging, had Hornady GCs seated in a Lyman 450 Lubrasizer with a .311 H&I die installed. The Lyman GC seating tool for the 450 was used so only the GC was initially seated and partially crimped. The NOE nose punch that comes with the NOE mould for the specific bullet was used. Once the GCs were seated they were lightly sprayed with a lanolin/alcohol lube and were pushed through a .311 Lee sizer. Since the bullets were .3105 as cast the Lee sizer only finished crimping the Hornady GCs on the base of the bullets. The bullets were sorted in lots of 15 each for each one of the lubes. That was 210 30 XCB Bullets for this test.

The Lyman 450 Lubrasizer already had 2500+ lube in it so the 15 bullets for 2500 lube were lubed in it. The .311 H&I die only lubed the .3105 bullets. The other lots (13) of 15 bullets each were hand lubed. I made sure all the lube grooves were full and left an excess of lube on the bullets. The excess was cleaned off with another pass through the Lee .311 sizer. Each bullet was once again inspected to make sure the lube filled each groove completely. The weight for the fully dressed bullets varied slightly (+/- .2 gr) based on the lube. I used the weight of 164.7 gr for the data input as that was for 2500+ lube which seemed to be close to “average”.

The cases used were Winchester Palma .308W cases that were match prepped and well fire formed in the test rifle. They were neck sized in a Redding Bushing die with a .335 bushing. The NOE M die case mouth expander for the Lee Case Expander die was used. The NOE expander slightly sized the inside of the case necks at .309 and flared the case mouths at .311. The cases were primed with Wincher large rifle (WLR) primers using a RCBS bench mounted priming tool.

The powder for this test was AA4350 at 47 gr. That has proven to be a consistently accurate load over the last few months with the NOE 30 XCB Bullet in the test rifle. Accuracy has consistently run from just under moa to 1.6 moa over many 10 shot groups. That load has been producing 2600 fps +/- with 2500+ lube in the 85 – 110 degree temperatures. The velocity during this test (2578 fps with 2500+ lube) dropped a bit due to the colder temperature of 44 – 48 degrees. That was expected. The 47 gr load is right at 100% load density in the Winchester fire formed cases with the seated NOE 30 XCB bullet.

The powder charges (47 gr each) were individually weighed to .05 gr +/- on a Redding balance beam scale. All of the AA4350 used was from the same canister. The 30 XCB NOE bullets were seated to the specified OAL (bullet ogive against the leade) with a Bonanza Forster Benchrest Seater. The 15 rounds for each lube were sequentially placed in MTM Cartridge boxes. Once loaded the ammunition was maintained in an upright position until each round was removed from the cartridge box.

320316

The test rifle was the same Palma rifle with 14” twist 27.6” Schultz & Larson barrel on the byf M98 action. The stock is a fiberglass replica of the old Savage 112V Varmint stock. It is not a “bench rest stock”. The scope is the same original Weaver T-16 as used before.

320317

The rest used on the solid cement bench was my old Hoppe’s that I’ve had for close to 40 years. It has a leather rabbit ear bag on it and a leather san filled rabbit ear bag is used for a rear rest.

The Oehler M43 PBL was used to record the instrumental velocity, muzzle velocity and pressure data. The pressure data is obtained via a strain gauge permanently mounted on the barrel at the SAAMI specified location.

The test of each lube was started with a cool clean barrel. The barrel was cleaned between each lube test using 2 wet patches followed by 10 strokes with a bronze brush and cleaned out with 5 more patches. Hoppe’s #9 was the solvent used on the patches and brush. The brush was cleaned off after each use with carburetor cleaner to prevent cross contamination of lube via the brush.

Cartridge loading into the rifle procedure; each cartridge was taken from the MTM cartridge box individually with the right hand and kept in a vertical position, the case head was put on the follower next to the bolt face (all the way to the rear) and the cartridge was rotated down and pushed into the magazine as the M98 feeds from the magazine. Consistency of loading each cartridge into the rifle was maintained.

With each lube tested there was a 5 shot test considered “foulers” before the actual 10 shot test was conducted. The target used was 22.5” wide and 17.5” tall. I stamped 6 diamond aiming points on each target. The “foulers” were fired using the top diamond with the record 10 shot group fired at the diamond directly under. The aiming point for each was the bottom point of the diamond.

320318

After firing each shot the bolt was opened and left fully to the rear, the case removed and a stop watch started. The empty case was put into the cartridge box. The shot impact on the target was observed through a 25X Kowa spotting scope and plotted on a separate sheet to track the location of each shot on target. After a full minute had passed at least (between shots) the next cartridge was loaded and fired. The unloading, timing and tracking were then repeated for that shot and all subsequent shots. All 210 shots (the 5 fouler shots as well as the 10 shot test shots) of this test were loaded, fired and tracked the same way.

The results; obviously this high velocity lube test was a very detailed and extensive test. There were 28 separate groups fired with 28 separate targets and data sheets. I traced all the bullets holes (except one which was not on target) on their respective Oehler data sheet print out. I do this to maintain a record of pertinent groups with their associated data and it gives us a good idea of how the actual group looked. I also numbered each shot sequentially as they were shot.

I won’t post all 28 data sheets as that would be prohibitive. I will post the top four and summarize the test.

Let’s discuss the “foulers” first. It was quite interesting to note that out of the cool clean barrel only 2 of the lubes had the 1st shot go “to group”. With several lubes it took 3 to perhaps 6 – 7 shots before the group “settled”. With one lube the first shot did not hit the target at all but appears (from the impact in the berm) to have gone several inches off to the left of the target. I plotted the 1st shot for each lube on a 11x8.5” sheet of paper. Three are not on that paper with one off about 1” at 2 o’clock, one down and away at 4 – 5 o’clock about 1.8” off and the one that was completely off target. Being familiar with 2500+ lube in this load in this rifle it was interesting the 1st shot went almost to the same poi as it always does. Whether or not the rest will be consistent that way should be tested by the user in the individual rifle/load.

320319

So, without further ado here is the standing based on group size (10 shots at 100 yards) and note this is not the order in which tested. In the case where the group size was the same the test with the higher velocity was listed first;




1. 2500+ 1.5”
2. Javelina 1.5”
3. LOTAK 1.82
4. 2700+ 1.9”
5. FWFL 1.9”
6. Voodoo 2.2”
7. Super Moly 2.3”
8. Tac 1 2.44”
9. Carnauba Red 2.45”
10. Orange magic 2.45
11. SL-68 2.58
12. Tac X 3.55
13. LBT Blue 3.75”
14. SL-68.1 3.95”

I was intrigued by the 62 fps variation in muzzle velocity between the highest and the lowest with the difference simply being the lube. Previous experience testing several strings of the same load finds a variation of velocity of 10 – 15 fps between test strings is acceptable. A difference of 20 fps is rare but I’ve never seen a difference of 62 fps! A review of the psi for each load showed a correlation between velocity and psi. The higher velocity had the higher psi, the lower velocity had the lowest psi. The trend being as the psi decreases so does the velocity. Perhaps one lube is “slicker” (viscosity?) than the other and allowing the bullet to get out of the barrel before the psi and the velocity reach a higher level? Here is the standing based on velocity and the psi for that velocity;

1. LOTAK 2597 fps 42,100 psi
2. 2700+ 2592 fps 41,600 psi
3. Tac X 2584 fps 42,200 psi
4. 2500+ 2578 fps 41,900 psi
5. Tac 1 2576 fps 41,000 psi
6. Super Moly 2574 fps 41,300 psi
7. Voodoo 2573 fps 41,200 psi
8. Felix’s FWFL 2571 fps 41,700 psi
9. Carnauba Red 2571 fps 41,000 psi
10. LBT Blue 2565 fps 40,600 psi
11. Javelina 2563 fps 41,500 psi
12. SL-68 2562 fps 40,800 psi
13. SL-68.1 2542 fps 39.500 psi
14. Orange Magic 2535 fps 39,200 psi

Note; I could find no correlation between fps, psi and accuracy. The internal ballistics for all the loads were excellent. The SD and ES with 11 of the lubes having velocity ES of less than 50 fps (8 of them less than 40 fps) and SDs of 9 – 14 fps which is excellent for 10 shot test of this nature. It should be noted the top four lubes accuracy wise had SD/ES of 10/28, 10/34, 12/36 and 10/29. In and of itself that is a pretty consistent performance.

A quick recap of each lube in order of accuracy;

2500+; this lube gave its usual great performance. It took 3 foulers and then settled into group. The SD/ES was 10/28 fps with the 10 shot test into 1.5” at 2578 fps. The 1st five shots of the test group went into .94”. The average velocity for this load in 85 – 100+ degrees has been right at 2600 fps. At 44 degrees the velocity was 22 fps less than that. This is still my “go to” lube for this rifle.

320320

Javelina; good old Javelina is still plugging away. Unfortunately it isn’t available anymore because the original Alox used isn’t made anymore. The group settled in after just 2 foulers and shots 3-5 would have been in the 1.5” 10 shot group at 2563 fps. The SD/ES was 10/34 fps with the other internal measurements being as good. I have 3 tubes of it less and will probably use it with this rifle. I also will test Lar’s White label NRA 50/50 with this rifle.

320323

Bullshop’s LOTAK; probably no surprise to Bullshop that his lube did very well. The 1st shot out of the cool clean barrel was about 9” out of the group but the next 4 foulers were within the test group demonstrating excellent seasoning of the barrel. The 2597 fps was the highest velocity recorded of the lubes. The SD/ES were also excellent at 12/36 fps and all the other internals were excellent also. The 1.82” ten shot group was very good but the 1st five shots went into 1.35”. This definitely another I will test further.

320321

2700+; this also appears to be an excellent high velocity lube. The results here along with Bjorn’s success with it pretty much confirm that. It appears from the distribution of the 5 foulers and then shots 1 & 2 of the test group that it requires 7+ shots at high velocity to properly “season” the barrel. The SD/ES was also excellent at 10/29 fps at 2592 fps. I will definitely be further testing this lube as I increase velocity.

320322

Felix FWFL (original batch); I’m sure Felix is smiling up on the “Big Range” at the showing his lube made here. It also seasoned the bore within 2 shots of the foulers. The other 3 foulers would have been in the middle of the ten shot test group of 1.9”. The velocity was 2571 fps but SD/ES of 19/63 fps might indicate problems. However, regardless of the oft heard single digit SDs it is closer to reality with 10 shot test strings of this level of a load.

Voodoo; This lube held promise as the foulers 2-5 settled into a very nice 1.2”. even within the test group of 10 shots 7 of those went into 1”. Problem was the 3 flyers opened the group to 2.2”. The internals were all very good with the SD/ES at 14/39 fps at 2573 fps except the pressure traces show evidence of secondary pressure spikes on the downside of the pressure curve

Lyman’s Super Moly; while the test group was not exceptional at 2.3” all the foulers would have gone into the test group. This lube gave the smallest SD/ES both on the fouler test (7/20 fps) and on the 10 shot test of 9/24 fps. This lube just dropped 3 of the shots consistently low out of the main group at 4 – 5 o’clock.

Tac1; this lube did not season the barrel until perhaps 10 shots had been fired (5 foulers + the 1st five shots of the test) . The velocity of 2576 fps with an SD/ES of 10/32 along with consistent internal pressure measurements belies that though. The group of 2.44” put this lube in the middle of the pack.

Carnauba Red; the 1st two fowlers hit very close together about 2” out of the group with shots 3 – 5 settling down and would have been in the main test group. The internals were good with the SD/ES at 12/37 fps at 2571 fps. The dispersion of shots within the group were consistent but the group was just 2.45”.

Lyman’s Orange Magic; This lube also had the 1st fouler shot basically go to group. The internals weren’t as consistent as 10 of the other lubes with the SD/ES at 12/45 fps at 2535 fps. The shot distribution was fairly consistent throughout the 2.45” test group. This lube gave the lowest velocity and lowest psi.

Gear’s SL-68; it only took one fouler for this lube to settle down and group also. The internals weren’t bad with the SD/ES at 15/40 fps at 2562 fps. Six of the 10 test shots went into a very tight .65” group but 4 flyers opened the group to 2.58”. There was no consistency to the direction of the flyers.

Tac X; this lube just did not perform well at this velocity level. The 2684 fps and SD/ES of 16/52 fps indicates a couple shots were out of the mainstream. Looking at the measured velocities of each shot we find that 2 of the 10 shots were indeed way out of the mainstream. That probably accounts for the somewhat erratic performance and the 3.55” group.

LBT Blue; it had been numerous years since I tested LBT Blue. In previous tests I found it satisfactory upwards of 2300 – 2400 fps but it did not perform well above that. I also have tested LBT Blue Soft with similar results. In this test it appeared hopeful as foulers 2 – 5 grouped fairly well at 1.35”. However the 10 shot test group spread to 3.75” with no consistency to shot placement within the group. The SD/ES was 11/41 which is a bit of a large spread. The velocity was 2565 fps. The other internals showed nothing to account for the group size. However, 6 of the pressure traces show a pressure spike.

Gear’s SL-68.1; this is the only lube that had the 1st shot of the foulers unaccounted for. It went off the left side of the target frame judging by the impact on the berm. There also was no data recorded for the shot and I’ve no reason why. The next 4 foulers group quite well and would have also been within the test group. Things seemed to be going along pretty good until shot #6 of the 10 shot test group which went way high. I did not call the shot high but good. Checking the data we see that shot is the lowest velocity of the 10 shots. The next shot, #7, also went out of the main group. Given this lube gave the worst SD/ES at 22/76 with the largest group at 3.95” there seems something amiss with it considering the 1st fouler shot was lost entirely and then the flyers in the test group. Eight of the 10 shots went into 1.9” and 9 of the shots, excluding #6, went into 2.15”.

Note; there was no instance of leading with any of the lubes. Some did offer more resistance when pushing the 1st wet patch through. Those softer lubes with lower viscosity seemed to “foul” less.

I really don’t have a “favorite” and will use what works the best. This test is no condemnation of any of the lubes tested. We can suppose these lubes work just fine for the lower velocity levels they were made for. That some do not work as well at higher velocity where few have gone is, again, no condemnation. Since 2500+ and 2700+ have proven themselves in this velocity range their position in the top 3 is no real surprise. Now Bullshop’s LOTAK on the other hand is one I intend to thoroughly test at 2900+ fps also when I get the 16” twist barreled M98 chambered in 30x60.

I would suggest anyone shooting at velocities above 2500 fps test the top 3 lubes in their rifle also. The problem is one that changing lubes in a lubrasizer can be a pain. Also accuracy problems associated with the lube, if the wrong one is selected, can cause the shooter to attempt to solve problems that aren’t really there in other areas. Best to hand lube with several different lubes using a known accurate load for the test as I did. It’s not that difficult. However, since we know 2500+, 2700+ and LOTAK work very well upwards of 2600 fps in numerous rifles simply picking one of those might solve some problems. We also know that 2500+ and 2700+ work at velocities above 2600 fps to 3000+ fps. If working or expecting to work with velocities at that level then selecting 2500+ or 2700+ will probably be the best choices. However, testing with my own 30”+ barrel of 16” twist chambered in 30x60 of the top 3 lubes is one of my 1st priorities with that rifle.

Larry Gibson

[waksupi]

Larry, thanks for the great and extensive testing! Always reliable information.

[Screwbolts]

Thank you Larry for re-posting your Test!

Ken

[charlie b]

After thinking about this I just ordered some 2500+

I only shoot a couple hundred a month. A 1lb batch of lube lasts me for over a year. I don't really enjoy making lube, I just did it cause in the old days it was 'hard' to find. Now days I sit in my chair and a few clicks of the mouse and it is ordered. Will be here in a couple days. Less trouble then buying the components at the stores (and beeswax is getting more expensive).

[jdgabbard]

After thinking about this I just ordered some 2500+

I only shoot a couple hundred a month. A 1lb batch of lube lasts me for over a year. I don't really enjoy making lube, I just did it cause in the old days it was 'hard' to find. Now days I sit in my chair and a few clicks of the mouse and it is ordered. Will be here in a couple days. Less trouble then buying the components at the stores (and beeswax is getting more expensive).

Same way I feel - IF - I'm going to be lubing... These days, I just stick to PCing boolits for the most part.

[charlie b]

I am about half and half, PC and lubed.

[Jack Stanley]

I used GAR brand Alox 50/50 until it was no longer available . Working with LBT blue soft and another I don't remember the name right now .

Jack

[Elpatoloco]

I have never used anything but Javelina. I stacked it stupid deep at $1.50 a stick many years ago. With that said, I powdercoat everything except the 44 mag and Linebaugh. Which is rather stoopid, but I hate to mess with what works. I love the smell of burning Javelina. Probably not too good to breathe.