Too fast

[bigted]

Been awhile since I been on here. Heard a thing the other day that made me wonder if maybe I might understand a bit more about my experience with my cartridge experience.

Feller told me that he got much better accuracy from going to 1.5 f powder which slowed his 45 cal boolits and he reaped a big jump in his Bpcr accuracy. His thinking was that with 2 or 3f powder the speed was stripping the rifling in his barrel.

Just wanted to run this up the pole and see where it goes.

Ted

[Winger Ed.]

I don't see the barrel being stripped unless he's running bullets made out of grinder disc material.
The barrel might be so fouled you can't see the rifling, but I seriously doubt it is stripped out.

I'm not a BP guy, but I got a M1 Garand like that years ago.
The owner thought the barrel was stripped out and sold it on the cheap.
Nobody wanted it, and when I found out about it, I paid his price sight unseen.
All the issue was that he'd never cleaned the bore---- ever,,,, and the accuracy fell off a cliff.
Just as a project, I cleaned it only with patches and Hoppe's #9 (no brush) almost every day for a couple months.
70-odd patches later, it looked new.

[country gent]

What I have been told and seen is 1) you need to start out the same as it ends. sub sonic sub sonic or super sonic super sonic. There is a transition from one to the other that deteriorates stability. 2) bullets are designed to be ran in a certain velocity range. below isnt always a big problem but above can cause problems

Another thing that comes into play is lowering velocity also lowers recoil making the load/rifle easier to shoot. A couple hundred feet per second on a 500-550 grain bullet is a big drop

[Castaway]

Winger, I don’t think the stripping referred to barrel wear, but to the bullet not engaging the rifling immediately. I doubt that is the case either. Each rifle is a puzzle unto itself. Some may thrive on 1.5 f and others on 3 f. Some will do better with a 64 grain charge, some with 68. If shooting a soft lead bullet, the detonation will make sure your bullet is fully bumped up to seal the bore to all of the way down the barrel

[jim 44-40]

Winger, I don’t think the stripping referred to barrel wear, but to the bullet not engaging the rifling immediately. I doubt that is the case either. Each rifle is a puzzle unto itself. Some may thrive on 1.5 f and others on 3 f. Some will do better with a 64 grain charge, some with 68. If shooting a soft lead bullet, the detonation will make sure your bullet is fully bumped up to seal the bore to all of the way down the barrel
Each rifle is a puzzle unto itself , sure is in my experience

[Winger Ed.]

Winger, I don’t think the stripping referred to barrel wear, but to the bullet not engaging the rifling immediately. I doubt that is the case either.

Interesting. I'd figure that in the realm of 'possible, but not probable'.
I've pushed some too fast, and when recovered, the groove in the boolit looked a little wider than the barrel's lands,
and I got leading in the corners of the grooves & lands-- but one never truly stripped.
Also, I wouldn't think BP got even a soft a boolit up to going that fast.

I wonder if the boolit is too small, or if its a muzzle loader, the patch is too thin.

[ascast]

maybe same result from less 2f/3f.

[Don McDowell]

I'm thinking it was probably just a matter of not having the right load. I've seen some big time target rifle matches won shooting 2 and 3f in 45-70's. 3f might be to much of a good thing in the longer cartridges, but with a proper fitting bullet and fouling control it could be possible.

[Chill Wills]

Feller told me that he got much better accuracy from going to 1.5 f powder which slowed his 45 cal boolits and he reaped a big jump in his Bpcr accuracy. His thinking was that with 2 or 3f powder the speed was stripping the rifling in his barrel.
Ted

In my opinion, simply changing granule size is not likely the cause of his good fortune. Something else was the reason for the one time accuracy improvement. Assuming the same amount of replacement 1.5fg powder from 2fg or 3fg, only a small difference in velocity would result. Then the issue of "IF" you could drive a 45 caliber bullet fast enough to strip. I doubt you can do it using normal components in a standard barrel.

Here are two example of success with large charges of 3fg powder, Both Doc Lay and Steve Baldwin have won the long range national championships using a combination of 3fg Swiss (80+ grains powder) pushing 525+ grain bullets in 45-90 cases. I've won it using 2fg.

[freakonaleash]

I ain't never won nothin, but Swiss 1.5 generally shoots better in most of my rifles. Has more to do with fouling than anything else.

[Gunlaker]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that the stripping idea is pretty much a myth in black powder rifles.

There isn't going to be much increase in velocity with a change of granulation. Probably all of the loads are within 100 fps of each other.

Swiss 1.5, and sometimes OE 1.5, works well in almost all of my rifles, but those same rifles also usually shoot well with FFFg, if the bullet fit is right.

Chris.

[Dan Cash]

[QUOTE=.......
I wonder if the boolit is too small, or if its a muzzle loader, the patch is too thin.[/QUOTE]

^^^^^^^^^^^^This.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[freakonaleash]

I have a couple antique Marlin lever guns that will only chamber a .408 bullet but have .410 bores. The 20 to 1 bullets punch up just fine.

[Chill Wills]

I have a couple antique Marlin lever guns that will only chamber a .408 bullet but have .410 bores. The 20 to 1 bullets punch up just fine.

Yes. BP can do it. I have had the same experience with a 38-55 1894

[curdog007]

He may be using an unsuitable bullet alloy.

[firefly1957]

During the shortages of 2012 I stared using Swiss 1.5 fG in my Kodiak .58 caliber double rifle under a patched round ball . 110 grains /volume gave same speed as FFG and the barrels shot closer together . My thought is that the powder fouling might be softer ?

Using Goex FG in my .50-3 1/4" Sharps I have to wipe on dry days or the fouling will tear the paper patch badly and lead the bore .