Might need to stop going to deer camp.

[dverna]

I have had two incidents this year.

The first was on my range. I let the guys use my range to sight in. Three weeks ago was the sight in session. One guy wanted to load his magazine and not take the magazine out when he went downrange to check his target. I told him to single load and keep the bolt open after the shot. He refused to do so. It got heated. I told him, my range, and my rules; and if he would not comply to get off my property and not come back. The others were quiet, but I found out later they told the guy he was wrong when they got back to camp.

Two days ago, I went to camp after the morning hunt. There was a gun leaning on the side of building with the bolt closed. I opened the bolt a round ejected. The gun belonged to the camp owner/leader. He told me it was safe because the safety was engaged. I gave him that *** look.

I have been labeled "the safety Nazi" for a few years. It started when I advised the camp owner he should not go out alone to service the 20+ tree stands. Too easy to slip and fall. They never or rarely wear safety gear. I live beside the camp, and told him to give a call and I would ride along in the SxS in case something happened.

I also suggested if the guys were hunting alone to let me, or someone, know where they are hunting and when they get back to camp. If something happens, I can help or get help.

BTW, last week one of their friends fell out of a tree stand and died.

In the past, being the "safety Nazi" has mostly been good natured ribbing but I am getting tired of it and will not compromise on gun safety.

They are great guys and I enjoy their company. I cannot understand the stubbornness wrt what seem reasonable safety protocols...especially when it comes to gun safety. Am I being a grumpy old fart who is too anal?

I am an "honorary" member and pay no dues. I do not hunt the camp until after opening week when they typically are not there but help out a bit during work bees. I really appreciated being invited and becoming part of the "gang".

But the gun safety thing is bothering me. I plan to tell the guys today I will "make a gun safe" without asking for permission. And that means, an open action and an empty magazine in the gun.

What do you folks think?

[Recycled bullet]

I think you are being unnaturally patient with a hard-headed ignorant person.

You cannot control other people's actions, you most definitely can decide how you respond to the stupidity of others.

It sounds to me they are close losing the right to associate with you if you are even having this thought or discussion, patterns of behaviors must be demonstrated that meet minimum standards of safety.

[Electrod47]

Nothing can replace a strong "sense of self preservation". People, more and more, are rejecting any form of authority. Even if its to their own benefit. Buddy, you deserve better friends.

[Sig]

You can't fix stupid. Everything you stated seems like common sense to me.

[Mr Peabody]

I think you should keep talking LOUDLY about staying safe

[BLAHUT]

I have had two incidents this year.

The first was on my range. I let the guys use my range to sight in. Three weeks ago was the sight in session. One guy wanted to load his magazine and not take the magazine out when he went downrange to check his target. I told him to single load and keep the bolt open after the shot. He refused to do so. It got heated. I told him, my range, and my rules; and if he would not comply to get off my property and not come back. The others were quiet, but I found out later they told the guy he was wrong when they got back to camp.

Two days ago, I went to camp after the morning hunt. There was a gun leaning on the side of building with the bolt closed. I opened the bolt a round ejected. The gun belonged to the camp owner/leader. He told me it was safe because the safety was engaged. I gave him that *** look.

I have been labeled "the safety Nazi" for a few years. It started when I advised the camp owner he should not go out alone to service the 20+ tree stands. Too easy to slip and fall. They never or rarely wear safety gear. I live beside the camp, and told him to give a call and I would ride along in the SxS in case something happened.

I also suggested if the guys were hunting alone to let me, or someone, know where they are hunting and when they get back to camp. If something happens, I can help or get help.

BTW, last week one of their friends fell out of a tree stand and died.

In the past, being the "safety Nazi" has mostly been good natured ribbing but I am getting tired of it and will not compromise on gun safety.

They are great guys and I enjoy their company. I cannot understand the stubbornness wrt what seem reasonable safety protocols...especially when it comes to gun safety. Am I being a grumpy old fart who is too anal?

I am an "honorary" member and pay no dues. I do not hunt the camp until after opening week when they typically are not there but help out a bit during work bees. I really appreciated being invited and becoming part of the "gang".

But the gun safety thing is bothering me. I plan to tell the guys today I will "make a gun safe" without asking for permission. And that means, an open action and an empty magazine in the gun.

What do you folks think?

YOU must continue being the " Am I being a grumpy old fart who is too anal? Time to find safer friends and another place to hunt........
Same at my place; my rules; like it or leave......

[Hickok]

I totally agree with you Dverna.

Once that bullet goes out the barrel, no amount of "I'm sorry", "I didn't mean to" can ever call it back!

I made a deer hunter clear his gun before giving him a ride in my jeep CJ5 some years ago. He had a shocked look when I told him that, but this was the option, cleared rifle or NO ride!

[ShooterAZ]

People get killed every year because of the very things mentioned by the OP. Most aren't "gun accidents" at all, they are due to downright negligence. I have a long time friend who I had to tell that I'm not going to shoot with him any more because he was not being safe. I would not back down on gun safety, never ever. If the "gang" doesn't want to enforce safety protocols, I personally wouldn't want to hunt with them anymore.

[Tatume]

Both of my parents fought in WWII, and when I was young calling someone Nazi was serious business. People younger than me often don't have an appreciation of what my parents generation lived through.

At my local club we have rules that are routinely ignored. It bothers me no end to be down range and hear an action being operated. When questioned, the offender will protest "Oh, it wasn't loaded." How am I supposed to know that from 100 yards away? When other people arrive I usually pack my gear and leave.

Keep up the good work. The life you save may be your own.

[BLAHUT]

both of my parents fought in wwii, and when i was young calling someone nazi was serious business. People younger than me often don't have an appreciation of what my parents generation lived through.

At my local club we have rules that are routinely ignored. It bothers me no end to be down range and hear an action being operated. When questioned, the offender will protest "oh, it wasn't loaded." how am i supposed to know that from 100 yards away? When other people arrive i usually pack my gear and leave.

Keep up the good work. The life you save may be your own.

amen

[kerplode]

I'm completely over shooting with other people. I'm not going to catch a bullet because some jackwagon thinks it's OK to casually do unsafe things. My last straw with this was having some d-bag start cranking off rounds during a cease-fire while I was downrange checking targets. I yelled at him and he said "It's fine...I'm shooting here and you were way down there." There's no arguing with this level of stupid.

If I show up to the range and somebody is already there, I leave and come back another time. If I'm at the range and somebody else shows up, I immediately pack up and leave.

Gun ownership in this country will be legislated out of existence within the next 10-20 years because the majority of society, and therefore the majority of gun owners today are careless, clueless, useless narcissists who think the entire world revolves around them and they can't be trusted to act in a reasonable manner.

Don - you did the right thing. If I were you, I would take it a step farther and stop allowing these idiots on your property all together (and yes, they are all culpable). When one of them shoots themselves or somebody else you're gonna catch a lawsuit.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I feel for your situation, because these incidents are things were people shouldn't get heated. It's makes it even more difficult as you are neighbors/friends with this camp group. If they will not listen to reason, I think it's time to break ties with them...but that's a tough decision for sure.

[Hannibal]

Sounds to me like some guys who are too proud to admit a mistake and accept constructive criticism.

I hunted a friend's property for a couple of years. He was a moron concerning gun safety. Later turned out he was a moron concerning a bunch of other things too.

I don't even talk to that guy anymore even though I see him almost every day at work.

[Winger Ed.]

Maybe after they go to a few more of their friend's funerals they'll see your concerns in a more favorable light.

[DougGuy]

They likely have never been on a public range where they are taught range etiquette for one, and weren't taught range safety, weren't taught what you can and cannot do when the RO calls COLD RANGE.

They need a safety course that they can show proof of completion. A hunter safety course teaches SOME range etiquette via the parts of the course on gun safety.

If I was a land owner and people wanted to hunt or shoot, I would say show your proof of hunter safety course before I would give them permission to come on my property with a firearm.

NC law states that you can hunt on private land with written permission from the owner or caretaker of the property. It is your responsibility to carry that permission on your person while you are on private property.

[HWooldridge]

Better safe than sorry - it’s that simple. With regard to the question of letting someone know whether they are in or out of camp, we used to have two racks of nails with brass coins suspended on each one. When you left camp, you moved the coin to the other side. Was easy to glance at it and know who was still out hunting. If someone came back and left for town, the coin was moved to the “In” side.

[farmbif]

when accidents happen they usually happen very quickly and there is no turning back the clock. I have had too many life changing accidents in my time. I dont care what anyone else thinks if they want to be reckless and I take any and all safety precautions I can. I may never again go to a public range or hunting camp. one of the reasons I bought this rural place I have my own shooting range and plenty of acres to hunt on with plentiful game and dont have to worry how someone else's carelessness might cause injury or death.

[dverna]

Guys, thanks for sharing your views.

Everyone at camp is a good person. It they were jerks, it would be easy to walk away. We drink more than we should but only after the guns are put away. A new member thought it would OK to take a beer or two to the blind and not one member supported him. We never mix guns and alcohol.

The camp owner gave me 3/4 of acre of land when I raised concerns about a possible easement issue. Not many people would do that for a neighbor.

Like I said..."good people". This is what makes it difficult. Needed to hear what other gun owners I respect thought.

[georgerkahn]

dverna -- I do totally disagree with your referring to yourself as a "grumpy old fart"!!! Other than that :) -- you are 110% correct in your common sense pro-safe attitude! I have had a bullet whiz by my ear -- probably less than five feet distance, while hunting in the woods. I have seen more than once at the range when a fellow picked up his rifle with a discharge followed by an "oops"! Yours truly -- I am embarrassed to admit it, but it is a true happening -- I took an unloaded Ruger .22 revolver out of the safe to hand to my younger son, and -- force of (good!) habit I opened its gate and twirled the cylinder -- to SEE five unfired .22 lr's in it! (To this day I have no idea how it got into the safe loaded -- but :( it did! Hey -- I was a NYS Hunter Safety (firearms) instructor for 11 years, too.
One thing I stressed while teaching hunter safety is that EVERY time a bullet is sent down your barrel -- it's impossible to rewind the videotape of time and pull it back.

Re "jerks" at the range, I do not wish a message of communication turning into a social confrontation -- aware that the "jerk" has a loaded firearm in his hands and I'm quite close... Call me a "chicken" -- I generally either move to another range or call it quits for the day.
geo

[jim 44-40]

At my local range,I was glad to see young people out getting fresh air and enjoying the shooting sport.
It was short lived.Most but not all youngsters should have had Dad,Uncle or Grandpa with them to help them along with the Safety part of shooting.I avoid the range pre deer season like the plague

[M-Tecs]

But the gun safety thing is bothering me. I plan to tell the guys today And that means, an open action and an empty magazine in the gun.

What do you folks think?

I agree with you 100% until I will "make a gun safe" without asking for permission. That will make things worse not better and possibly lead to a fist fight or worse. I am fine with being asked to show "safe". Someone else handling my firearm without my permission not so much. Also states like North Dakota do not have a case law and legally unloaded is an empty chamber even if the magazine is loaded.

Talk to the landowner about setting everyone down and establishing firearm handling safety rules that all can agree upon and follow. As to going out in pairs they are adults. You offered to go with them. Thats all you can do. You have no standing to do anymore since it's not your land.

[crappie-hunter]

Back in the seventies I was a police officer in a small dept. one day in deer season a individual that I new well pulled his car up to the station house very distraught and could barely speak, finally could understand that his deceased brother in law was in the front seat of his vehicle, he and several others were doing deer drives and in their hast to set up another drive same individual failed to unload his rifle while getting the vehicle and accidentally shot his brother in law in the chest causing instant death.
After a thorough investigation by Pa game commission officer and state police it was determined the incident was ruled an accident, don’t remember what the exact charges were but shooter plead guilty and among other sentencing guidelines he lost his hunting privileges for a period of 10 yrs. No jail time as I recall.
Gun safety should be the highest priority when handling a firearm.

[armoredman]

We don't really HAVE a deer season down here, so there really isn't a time when people are out sighting in rifles en masse, but I see enough people being unsafe that it sets my teeth on edge. if people are being stupid at the local outdoor range, I leave. I haven't been hunting in 30 years, but if I went with someone who was unsafe, and won't listen to corrective criticism, I would leave.
Alcohol and firearms are a deadly combination.
No, OP, you should stay safety conscious - no amount of "woulda, shoulda, coulda" will ever bring anyone back from the grave.

[Wayne Smith]

In your original post you stated that a member died falling out of a tree stand. If that did not wake them up to basic safety issues they are probably hopeless cases, who do not want to work at being safe. Yes, I said 'work at', and it needs to be emphasized that safety is work, they have to pay attention and work at being safe. It doesn't happen automatically or easily.

[Polymath]

This fall I called all the "pre-approved hunting parties" that asked for permission to hunt our land. a month ago I cancelled ALL hunting privileges from now on. First time in two generations.
Someone (I think I know who) had been shooting towards the neighbors place. No one got hurt or was there any damage but still not acceptable. The idiot had to shoot across a major highway to do this.

The problem is one guy get permission then bring his buddies who are idiots and then the whole thing goes sideways. Ruined it for everyone. The last guy I got a hold of and cancelled his privilege did not seem surprised at all so I suspect it was his kid or one of his kids friends.
The next time someone starts sniveling about farmers being unfavorable with hunters, I'm telling them this tale.
Is no one teaching their young folk how to respect and hunt properly?

[Polymath]

Back in the seventies I was a police officer in a small dept. one day in deer season a individual that I new well pulled his car up to the station house very distraught and could barely speak, finally could understand that his deceased brother in law was in the front seat of his vehicle, he and several others were doing deer drives and in their hast to set up another drive same individual failed to unload his rifle while getting the vehicle and accidentally shot his brother in law in the chest causing instant death.
After a thorough investigation by Pa game commission officer and state police it was determined the incident was ruled an accident, don’t remember what the exact charges were but shooter plead guilty and among other sentencing guidelines he lost his hunting privileges for a period of 10 yrs. No jail time as I recall.
Gun safety should be the highest priority when handling a firearm.

Just recently heard of a similar thing here for the second time. A guy at the range had a live round stuck in the chamber, drove home with the bolt closed on a live round and hit a bump. Enough for the firing pin to strike the live round and sending it through the roof of truck.
If a person does get a stuck live round, leave the bolt open until you can get to a gunsmith.

[WILCO]

Choose life.

Go when the stupid aren't there.

[country gent]

Any thing mechanical can and will fail usually a the worst time. The only real safety is between your ears. Bolts open, magazines empty or better yet if possible out of the gun. Something to consider is at high power rifle matches an open bolt indicator use is required. A simple flag with a long stem that slides in the chamber with the flag showing out of the ejection port.

Any machine has maim mutilate and murder built into it its up to s to use out heads to control it

[CBH]

Being safety conscious at all times is a rite of passage among true outdoorsman and a badge of honor.

[shooterg]

Our range(450+ members) has a required safety orientation before access granted . I tell every class we have 1% that do not believe any rules apply to them. We don't have full time RSO's but we have enough frequenting the ranges that little misbehaving occurs without consequences. Sometimes a "teaching moment", other times immediate expulsion until the Range Safety Committee decides what to do with 'em.
We do expel those who refuse to obey . Yup, I've been called a range nazi.

[Big Tom]

What you brought up sounds like common sense to me and if they don't get the basics, I would not even want to be around them - at least not when hunting/shooting. Safety first and they can be happy that there is at least one person who cares about nobody getting killed during an activity that is supposed to be fun (and not worrying if somebody accidentally may get shot...).

[firefly1957]

When I was younger deer camp was my grandfathers cabin my grandpa required all guns to be unloaded on the rack and none could come off the rack if we were drinking after the day was done . A cousin refused and was drunk bragging about his gun still being loaded while he took a leak I removed the guns bolt he got so mad he left and thankfully never returned!

[contender1]

Ok, first off,, you said it clearly; "Your range, your rules."

I own a gun range. It's private,, yet we do shoot USPSA matches here. We use the USPSA rule book for most of the safety guidelines. But I also have my own rules. So, when we have a match,, do something that's against the rules,, "Match DQ and no refund."

I'm also a retired NC Hunter Safety Instructor. I'm a NRA Firearms Instructor. I'm a certified USPSA Range Officer. And I'm the recipient of a gunshot wound due to negligence.
I've taught & preached hunting safety, including tree stand falls. I have a lot of info on people shot due to negligence.

They are not accidents,, they are the results of someone's negligence.

In fact, in USPSA,, the most common term is; "Negligent Discharge" instead of "accidental discharge" when a firearm is fired without the action being done on purpose.

The NSSF, the NRA, and just about every firearm organization preaches, teaches, and heavily promotes the basic gun handling safety rules.
Your range,, your rules, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, YOUR LIABILITY!!!!!

And as for the club property,, you are their guest,, and are to be expected to abide by their rules. If they do not have any set, posted and enforced rules,, then if you do enjoy these guys,, maybe you could point out the obvious. Safety SHOULD be all of their concerns. Strongly suggest they look HARD at a few legal terms that could cost them everything,, that is,, if they are the survivors of any unsafe acts.
My lawyer used (2) simple terms that I use often; "Deliberate indifference," and "Negligence." In a lawsuit,, those two things will be used HARD upon EVERYBODY at the camp, club or whatever. And yes,, there will be lawsuits. If a person dies,, the rest of the family WILL sue. If the injured party survives,, yet can't afford their medical bills,, they will sue! Friendship goes out the window when money is involved.

My suggestion is for you to have a CALM,, POLITE,, yet firm discussion with the club/property owner about HIS liability. In a polite fashion,, point out how he will be the one to lose the most of anyone gets injured or killed. Not just monetary, but up to the possibility of jail. Offer to HELP teach safety & SUGGEST that all members of the camp take a mandatory class on safety. See if you can get a lawyer to help explain the way the legal system will go after all of them if something happens.

At my range,, all shooters are required to read a copy of MY rules,, and sign that they have read them and will abide by them. Yet,, even my lawyer has stated it's not going to stop a lawsuit from being filed,, just assist in the long term of my expensive legal defense. And I could STILL lose a case or have to "settle out of court."

The best thing is to try HARD to be polite in explaining that we live in a different world now,, and people do sue for everything nowadays. Plus,, calmly point out the fact that people are killed all the time by negligent acts with a firearm. Heck, I just heard on the TV,, on a news program,, where a 3 year old got his mothers gun out of her purse, and shot his 2 year old sibling, killing him. Mother to be charged in that case.

I understand you enjoy a lot of the guys company, and want to remain friends. But it's HOW you approach the whole safety issue that can either make or break the friendships. Explain how they can lose the privileges of the use of your range due to unsafe actions. Explain how you do not want to be the one to see a friend die on your property due to another person's failure to be safe. And point out that you will join a lawsuit against someone breaking safety rules if someone gets hurt.

I do that all the time.

My range, my rules, and my liability. I don't want to lose my property, pay huge legal fees, or most importantly see anyone hurt due to unsafe acts.

[MaryB]

When I deer hunted we unloaded all guns before getting int he truck, after unloading passed it to a friend next to us to be double checked, then they went in a case for the drive to the next spot or back to base camp. We had one guy object to this. We took his gun away form him, unloaded it. Put it in the case and dropped him off at his house. He was never allowed to hunt with us again.

[M-Tecs]

When I deer hunted we unloaded all guns before getting int he truck, after unloading passed it to a friend next to us to be double checked, then they went in a case for the drive to the next spot or back to base camp. We had one guy object to this. We took his gun away form him, unloaded it. Put it in the case and dropped him off at his house. He was never allowed to hunt with us again.

In MN until recently all non-carry firearms transported in vehicles needed to be unloaded and cased. Recent changes to the MN firearms transportation law allows for transporting unloaded/uncased firearms in certain circumstances.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/97B.045

On a side note, I rarely see unsafe firearm handling with loaded firearms. The exception is LE. They tend to have some serious safety issues on the range.

Most of the accidental shootings I am aware of happened with “unloaded” guns by people who thought they could be reckless with what they thought was an unloaded gun.

I prefer to be around people that “Treat all firearms as if they are loaded” with the normal exceptions for cleaning, maintenance and dry firing.

My carry pistol is loaded 100% of the time except for cleaning and maintenance.

[rbuck351]

I no longer have to go to a public range as I now have my own. It's also been a long time since I have hunted with anyone other than a couple of close friends that also follow the four safety rules closely. In your shoes I would probably just not go to hunting camp with anyone not being a safety Nazi. As far as your range your rules yes. Someone using poor safety practices would be warned not to repeat their actions. If it was a severe violation or they repeated their action, they would be told to leave and they are no longer welcome at your range.

You have too much to lose to allow weapons to be mishandled at your range. Also being around people that will not follow safe gun handling rules is something I won't do. I am old but I would like to get older.

[Wag]

Don, you're doing the right thing. Keep on doing it.

--Wag--

[dverna]

Last night, just before the end of legal shooting time, the camp owner downed a huge 9 point. I went over after a half hour or so.

Three of us got into the Ranger SxS to go see the kill and take pictures. I got in the back and did not check the seat…it was dark as well. I sat on something. Reaching down it was the gun used to harvest the deer. Reached over and opened the action. It was loaded. I did not check if the safety was engaged.

I cleared the gun and took it to the cabin. I did not want to make a scene while everyone was celebrating and high-fiving.

The owner left this morning and will be back on the 30th. I will talk to him about my concerns.

Frankly, I have steadily lost interest in deer hunting. At 73, the 25 lbs of meat is not worth the cost or effort. Told the camp owner a few weeks ago this would likely be my last year hunting. It seems God is sending me messages. Three safety incidents are too many to ignore.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I totally support your gun safety views. Now, I've been wandering around the Rocky Mountain wildness for many years where cell phones do NOT work, packing horses or chaining up and climbing two tracks without company, then going into timber with little more than a map with an X for where I'll be and when I'll be back (usually several days) for my wife, so going to a treestand in a four-wheeler does not sound like a party event requiring supervision TO ME.

[NSB]

Don, you and I have a LOT in common. I’m called “Mr. Safety”. I could write a book on what I’ve seen hunting the last 62 years (I’m old but still hunting and fishing). I’ve seen guys have AD’s inside club houses with their “unloaded” shotguns and the room was full of people. I had a friend die hunting alone when he fell from a treestand (boards nailed into a tree). He wasn’t missed for three days and his wife called the game wardens. Had a closed coffin due to animal damage to the corpse.
I literally could write a book on more and more of these things. I get a lot of heat about it, but I know from experience I’m right. I was hired part time a couple of years ago by a manufacturing company here in WNY that was on OSHA’s “watch list” for way too many accidents. I worked for them for eighteen months with ZERO accidents. They told me thanks, gave me a bonus, and one month after leaving they had a serious head injury because everyone stopped following the rules after I left. They wanted me back. I declined because it wasn’t upper management’s culture to do the right thing. They wanted a sheriff, not a culture change. You’re doing the right thing, don’t stop. Your life might depend on it.

[NSB]

I totally support your gun safety views. Now, I've been wandering around the Rocky Mountain wildness for many years where cell phones do NOT work, packing horses or chaining up and climbing two tracks without company, then going into timber with little more than a map with an X for where I'll be and when I'll be back (usually several days) for my wife, so going to a treestand in a four-wheeler does not sound like a party event requiring supervision TO ME.

Some cell phones do work in those areas. Apple has added a feature to iPhone 14 and up. Might think about getting one. Expensive? Yes, but what’s your life or someone else’s worth? Just something to think about.

[MaryB]

Last night, just before the end of legal shooting time, the camp owner downed a huge 9 point. I went over after a half hour or so.

Three of us got into the Ranger SxS to go see the kill and take pictures. I got in the back and did not check the seat…it was dark as well. I sat on something. Reaching down it was the gun used to harvest the deer. Reached over and opened the action. It was loaded. I did not check if the safety was engaged.

I cleared the gun and took it to the cabin. I did not want to make a scene while everyone was celebrating and high-fiving.

The owner left this morning and will be back on the 30th. I will talk to him about my concerns.

Frankly, I have steadily lost interest in deer hunting. At 73, the 25 lbs of meat is not worth the cost or effort. Told the camp owner a few weeks ago this would likely be my last year hunting. It seems God is sending me messages. Three safety incidents are too many to ignore.

25 pounds? How tiny are your deer??? Typical here is 125-200 pounds... fat corn fed deer here...

[Good Cheer]

Don, you and I have a LOT in common. I’m called “Mr. Safety”. I could write a book on what I’ve seen hunting the last 62 years (I’m old but still hunting and fishing). I’ve seen guys have AD’s inside club houses with their “unloaded” shotguns and the room was full of people. I had a friend die hunting alone when he fell from a treestand (boards nailed into a tree). He wasn’t missed for three days and his wife called the game wardens. Had a closed coffin due to animal damage to the corpse.
I literally could write a book on more and more of these things. I get a lot of heat about it, but I know from experience I’m right. I was hired part time a couple of years ago by a manufacturing company here in WNY that was on OSHA’s “watch list” for way too many accidents. I worked for them for eighteen months with ZERO accidents. They told me thanks, gave me a bonus, and one month after leaving they had a serious head injury because everyone stopped following the rules after I left. They wanted me back. I declined because it wasn’t upper management’s culture to do the right thing. They wanted a sheriff, not a culture change. You’re doing the right thing, don’t stop. Your life might depend on it.

There's a pretty good commentary on civilization in there.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Wife has an iPhone 14, no it does not work in many, many places in Wyoming. There are places where it works, drive a mile or three here and there, maybe, but nothing truly reliable for 'everywhere'. Lived in or near the Rockies since 1977, still many places without RELIABLE cell phone service, no matter what the phone companies say. There are satellite phones that USUALLY work, pricey with expensive subscriptions, a person just learns how to survive without holding hands, not being reckless, paying attention to details. Cell phones did not exist much before the 90's, we did not stay out of the mountains because we could not call for help. Lions and bears, oh my.

[Minerat]

Our rule is no loaded long guns in camp, including in the magizine, even blind mags. Pistols stay in holsters unless needed or being cleaned. When younger I did a lot of pheasant hunting, in Colorado you can have an unloaded gun in a car/truck if no shell is in chamber, magazines loaded OK. The great thing about the Browning A5 was the mag lockout. One of my buddies had a hole in the passenger floor board of his old pickup from an unloaded shotgun.

Sticking to your principals may be hard, especially when others seem to have little regard for safety. Maybe when you refuse to be around them they will change their attitude towards safety if they value your companionship.

[NSB]

25 pounds? How tiny are your deer??? Typical here is 125-200 pounds... fat corn fed deer here...
In 62 years of deer hunting in NY, PA, Mi, and OH, the average amount of meat from the vast majority of the 200+ deer I’ve harvested have yielded 40-45 lbs of meat. Some of the really big ones have given up 60-70 lbs of meat…..those are pretty rare. Very, very few hunters actually weight their deer. They use a guesstimate to determine their size. They are almost always wrong. I’ve spent enough time at deer check weight stations to verify my comments.

[Slugster]

I allow a family friend and his wife to hunt my property. They are both very safe with their firearms and follow basic safety, plus my rules. I trust them and that is not an easy thing for me. Used to be a member of the large range that was local to me. Member for over 20 years. Quit after being witness to way too many stupidities. Have my own 100 yard range now but sure do miss being able to shoot 400 yards at the other range.
Have heard that that range has RSO's now, but that they really are nazis and will dress you down or escort you to your vehicle in a new york minute for an infraction of the safety rules. Good for them!

[M-Tecs]

a person just learns how to survive without holding hands, not being reckless, paying attention to details. Cell phones did not exist much before the 90's, we did not stay out of the mountains because we could not call for help. Lions and bears, oh my.

A little common sense goes a very long way in regard to self-preservation. Same for accurately assessing your abilities or lack of abilities. I know people that really should not cross the street by themselves and others that are fine working by themselves for extended time periods in very remote areas. Others flat out amaze me. Specifically, I know a couple of special force types that would spend months in Afghanistan mostly by themselves with nothing more than the equipment they packed in on horses or mules. That is well beyond my abilities and comfort level.

[pietro]

.


IMO, ONE safety incident is one too many, nevermind three.

You can only die one time..........


FWIW, long ago I went hunting deer with guys like that........... ONCE !

I never hunted with them again.

Do what ya gotta do

.

[M-Tecs]

Some cell phones do work in those areas. Apple has added a feature to iPhone 14 and up. Might think about getting one. Expensive? Yes, but what’s your life or someone else’s worth? Just something to think about.

Still need line of sight to the satellite. My AK buddy uses a Garmin Inreach Personal Locator Beacon. In the area he is it may take several hours before a satellite is in position to receive a signal. Technology is get better but it's still not 100%.

Apple Snapdragon Satellite.

https://www.androidauthority.com/what-is-snapdragon-satellite-3310908/

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-64182383

https://www.thestar.com/business/in-distress-in-a-remote-off-grid-area-this-new-iphone-14-feature-lets-you/article_2abc8a53-792f-5576-9db0-592658a91800.html#:~:text=Apple%20has%20unveiled%2 0a%20new%20safety%20service%20that,U.S.%20to%20use rs%20of%20all%20iPhone%2014%20models.

I do know that in remote AK Sat phones are not 100%.

https://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/communications-gear#:~:text=Because%20the%20Globalstar%20satellit es%20are%20in%20a%20low,is%20to%20go%20with%20the% 20Motorola%20Irridium%20phone.
A satphone is currently the device of choice when it comes to emergency communications gear that works anywhere in Alaska. You have two choices when it comes to satphones; the Globalstar system or the Motorola Irridium. There has been some talk about a Globalstar station in Alaska, however at this writing that has not come to pass. Because the Globalstar satellites are in a low orbit relative to the state of Alaska, coverage is reasonable in the southern part of the state, but becomes unreliable farther north. Your best bet is to go with the Motorola Irridium phone

[Handloader109]

We never deer hunted growing up, just too few deer. Did dove hunt. Shotguns always unloaded until we were out of truck and ready to hunt. Unloaded before we got back in the truck. Never loaded in any vehicle. No handguns at that time. I've never hunted with anyone else. But I won't go to the state managed range that is about 15 miles from me. No range officer and just no rules. Went a couple of times and just saw so much stupid stuff that scared me I stopped going. I think that you have to stand your ground, no one but you is ultimately responsible for your safety, and there is no reason to deal with stupidity. And loaded gun in any vehicle is stupidity. Even a 4wheeler. Stupidity. You very well could have shot someone by just sitting on the damn rifle. And I'd close your range. I've a little one, and we are the only ones shooting on it. Let others go elsewhere.....

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Ed K]

And I'd close your range. I've a little one, and we are the only ones shooting on it. Let others go elsewhere.....
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

I'll second that. I'll shoot with my brother and his very responsible 17 year old son and nobody else.

I originally experienced a lot of the crap mentioned previously. 25 years ago bought land and set up a private range. Guys say how "lucky" I am - ha! Anyone can do it if they exercise control over their wallet.

Over the years and after being ordered off my own land by hunters, finding trees cut for shooting lanes and others with steel screw-in spikes, finding game cameras and illegal bait sites I was getting pretty frustrated. The last straw was walking on my land with my black lab and coming across a neighbor (and fire warden and chairman of the town forest committee) who was visibly frustrated by me spoiling his hunt. With a 30-30 in his hands he warned me not to be out on my property at that time of year if I didn't want to be shot.

[MaryB]

In 62 years of deer hunting in NY, PA, Mi, and OH, the average amount of meat from the vast majority of the 200+ deer I’ve harvested have yielded 40-45 lbs of meat. Some of the really big ones have given up 60-70 lbs of meat…..those are pretty rare. Very, very few hunters actually weight their deer. They use a guesstimate to determine their size. They are almost always wrong. I’ve spent enough time at deer check weight stations to verify my comments.

Average hanging weight doe around here goes 150-175, bucks 225++++ record is 500+ pounds... we have BIG deer here!

[MaryB]

I had a ground blind just after a rise the deer were coming over to drop back down into a low spot to run in... sitting on my stool when I here a bullet hit the tree a foot over my head. Dude with an AR-15 came running over the hill after a little non legal button buck... in a shotgun slug only zone. I hollered, he took off for the parking area, I took the shortcut and beat him there and blocked his truck in. And got on the radio and called for backup from a friend.

Dude with AR points it at me telling me to move my truck, friend who was a MN state HWY patrol captain tells him to drop the rifle and get on the ground after coming up behind him. He was carrying his service pistol and his shotgun so not someone to mess with.

AR dude lost his guns, his truck, got fined for trespassing and illegal firearm during deer season... and lost hunting privileges in MN for life.

Same dude shot a guy in WI with an AR a few years later after an argument over a tree stand... He got life in prison...

[M-Tecs]

I had a ground blind just after a rise the deer were coming over to drop back down into a low spot to run in... sitting on my stool when I here a bullet hit the tree a foot over my head. Dude with an AR-15 came running over the hill after a little non legal button buck... in a shotgun slug only zone. I hollered, he took off for the parking area, I took the shortcut and beat him there and blocked his truck in. And got on the radio and called for backup from a friend.

Dude with AR points it at me telling me to move my truck, friend who was a MN state HWY patrol captain tells him to drop the rifle and get on the ground after coming up behind him. He was carrying his service pistol and his shotgun so not someone to mess with.

AR dude lost his guns, his truck, got fined for trespassing and illegal firearm during deer season... and lost hunting privileges in MN for life.

Same dude shot a guy in WI with an AR a few years later after an argument over a tree stand... He got life in prison...

This the guy? http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/11/22_kelleherb_huntershooting/

[MaryB]

This the guy? http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/11/22_kelleherb_huntershooting/

Yes that's the scumbag I forgot he killed 6... been a few years and I am not young any more LOL memory... whats left of it!

Around that time frame we had a LOT of problems from Laotians not following game and fish laws... see them fishing and they kept everything in any amount... one dude got busted for 30 northern pike, most were barely 12 inches... another had 200+ walleye in his freezer at home...

[JSnover]

You're not wrong.
"You could get someone killed" just doesn't seem to mean anything to some people. An uncle of mine worked at an indoor range and had a similar problem a long time ago. As he escorted the guy out the door he told him "if you want to kill yourself, go do it at your place, not mine."

[JSnover]

I worked for them for eighteen months with ZERO accidents. They told me thanks, gave me a bonus, and one month after leaving they had a serious head injury because everyone stopped following the rules after I left. They wanted me back. I declined because it wasn’t upper management’s culture to do the right thing. They wanted a sheriff, not a culture change. You’re doing the right thing, don’t stop. Your life might depend on it.
A friend of mine is in the same predicament right now. Culture beats policy every day of the week.

[JoeJames]

"Two days ago, I went to camp after the morning hunt. There was a gun leaning on the side of building with the bolt closed. I opened the bolt a round ejected. The gun belonged to the camp owner/leader. He told me it was safe because the safety was engaged. I gave him that *** look."

That made me think about how certain rifles have been known to fire when the safety was released, like many old Remingtons. That is a dern good reason for them to be kept unloaded, bolt open.

[Winger Ed.]

Remington had a big recall on a bunch of 700s, I think in the 80s after a few accidental killings happened
where someone let off the safety and it fired. (that doesn't say much for people's safety practices either)

[.429&H110]

If we don't teach them, who will?
I have that rifle and I use it to teach the kids.
Seventeen years ago I bought a Rem 700 at Walmart for $200
.223 nylon stock open sights, will bullseye at 100 yards.
Really does have a nice trigger!
But, to teach the kids,
close the bolt on an empty! chamber
flip the safety on
pull the trigger three times
bang the rubber butt on the floor
release the safety
and it usually will drop the pin

They say guns don't kill people, but the 700 has killed a few people.
There are millions of 700s still out there with that trigger.

I get flack for owning the thing, and not changing the trigger out, but it's an eyeopener when it goes click.
For extra excitement it has a closed floor, no magazine, makes old men cringe.
It lives unloaded with the bolt open in the safe.

[Hannibal]

If we don't teach them, who will?
I have that rifle and I use it to teach the kids.
Seventeen years ago I bought a Rem 700 at Walmart for $200
.223 nylon stock open sights, will bullseye at 100 yards.
Really does have a nice trigger!
But, to teach the kids,
close the bolt on an empty! chamber
flip the safety on
pull the trigger three times
bang the rubber butt on the floor
release the safety
and it usually will drop the pin

They say guns don't kill people, but the 700 has killed a few people.
There are millions of 700s still out there with that trigger.

I get flack for owning the thing, and not changing the trigger out, but it's an eyeopener when it goes click.
For extra excitement it has a closed floor, no magazine, makes old men cringe.
It lives unloaded with the bolt open in the safe.

Would you keep a car that jumped into gear if it got bumped a time or 3?

Don't see the difference.

[.429&H110]

My 22 year old Tacoma 5 speed might do that without much bump...
I knew I would get cringe!
That rifle is on at 100 yards, open sights with a great trigger.
My s-i-law covets it upon my demise, soon enough,
he will change the trigger thread the muzzle and scope it for a suppressed varmint gun.
Meanwhile I don't hunt with the thing, it is a training aide,
for people who keep rifles chambered when not pointed downrange.
There are a million Rem 700s out there just like it.
Some might have new triggers, it's hard to know which ones.
Would you assume a Rem 700 is safe or unload it?
I like mine better with the bolt open, YMMV.

[.429&H110]

Thinking about it, there was a cabin in middle of nowhere AK that had my chambered Marlin 450 leaning in the umbrella stand by the door. The Marlin has a cross bolt safety that actually works, over the door in clips was an auto sluggun, wasn't mine, and might not even have been on safe. Everybody had a chambered sidearm, going to the privy, and the Karelian beardog knew his business. Kind of different rules up the Salcha river in bear country with a moose hanging. So YMMV.
Right now, that Marlin is in the safe with its bolt open.

[milsurpcollector1970]

I shoot at a private club with over 1000 members, they are strict there and will kick you out if you violate the rules or give one of the range masters a hard time.

I have no problems with that and everyone knows they are like that so I have yet to even hear about an incident like the ones you all describe.

[JoeJames]

If we don't teach them, who will?
I have that rifle and I use it to teach the kids.
Seventeen years ago I bought a Rem 700 at Walmart for $200
.223 nylon stock open sights, will bullseye at 100 yards.
Really does have a nice trigger!
But, to teach the kids,
close the bolt on an empty! chamber
flip the safety on
pull the trigger three times
bang the rubber butt on the floor
release the safety
and it usually will drop the pin

They say guns don't kill people, but the 700 has killed a few people.
There are millions of 700s still out there with that trigger.

I get flack for owning the thing, and not changing the trigger out, but it's an eyeopener when it goes click.
For extra excitement it has a closed floor, no magazine, makes old men cringe.
It lives unloaded with the bolt open in the safe.

There's a very good book on the subject: unSafe by Design?: Forensic Firearms Investigations
by H.J. Jack Belk and Bill Rogers

He goes into detail about the Remington two part trigger and how for just a few pennies more it would have been safe. But I was glad to read that my Remington 788 was cheap but safe.

[JSnover]

I get flack for owning the thing, and not changing the trigger out, but it's an eyeopener when it goes click.
For extra excitement it has a closed floor, no magazine, makes old men cringe.
It lives unloaded with the bolt open in the safe.

I lived with mine for almost thirty years, knowing it had that fault and just reminding myself to follow the rules and all would be well, and all was well. I liked the factory trigger and didn't plan to change it. Then the covid shutdown happened and I needed a project. As nice as those factory triggers were, there are lots better aftermarket ones that will solve the problem, shoot better, and are easy to install.

[Rapier]

Don, sounds like you are dealing with a group that does not believe in even the basic rules of safe hunting or safe gun handling. Someone is going to get hurt, I would make very sure it was not me.

[ascast]

Don you are correct in actions. Must be a hot button as you have 4 pages of talk in 3 days. I have similar problems with my crew. One spring I found two loaded 12 ga pumps in my shop, rounds in chamber. Both were on a side table. Bullet holes and broken necks are forever.

[dverna]

I sent an email to the camp owner. I offered two suggestions, First, I would not visit the camp during rifle season until after hunting was done and people had put away their guns. Second, no one can use my range unless I am there to supervise and my rules apply.

I will continue to help out at work bees as I have a tractor and some mechanical skills they need from time to time

He is gone for Thanksgiving and we had planned to get together on the 30th. We will talk then.

[MrWolf]

I sent an email to the camp owner. I offered two suggestions, First, I would not visit the camp during rifle season until after hunting was done and people had put away their guns. Second, no one can use my range unless I am there to supervise and my rules apply.

I will continue to help out at work bees as I have a tractor and some mechanical skills they need from time to time

He is gone for Thanksgiving and we had planned to get together on the 30th. We will talk then.

Good for you. Do it on your terms. Just not worth it which is why I prefer to stay home. I have plenty of room. Good luck.
Ron

[WRideout]

My wife and I recently took one of the ladies who cared for my mother-in-law to the pistol range. She owned a new, never fired, Glock 19 as well as a J-frame S&W revolver. At home we went through the safety course, and manual of arms with the Glock. She was very hesitant to operate the pistol until I had shown her how to handle it safely. I provided a few dummy 9mm rounds so she could get used to cycling the action, and advised her to keep the gun handy at home so she could pick it up once in a while and get more familiar. Then we went to the range where she had no trouble at all picking up the basics of shooting the Glock.

If I am a safety Nazi, so be it. I could not live with myself if I did not do a good job at it, and a tragedy occurred.

Wayne

[lightman]

Good on you for being the "Safety Nazi"! Keep on doing what you are doing.

[rbuck351]

I follow the four gun safety rules however many folks don't even know what they are let alone follow them. Because of that, I try not to be around others with guns that I don't know to follow those rules.

I have a very early Rem 700V in 223 that after a few years with my failure to clean the trigger, started to fire when the bolt was closed. It still has that trigger but it does get cleaned more often and has not fired without pulling the trigger since.

Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. The most important of the four rules is the one that is the most common rule broken. I will not be around folks that break this rule. If it is my range they will leave. If it's not my range, hunting camp or what ever, I will leave.

[Recycled bullet]

My wife and I recently took one of the ladies who cared for my mother-in-law to the pistol range. She owned a new, never fired, Glock 19 as well as a J-frame S&W revolver. At home we went through the safety course, and manual of arms with the Glock. She was very hesitant to operate the pistol until I had shown her how to handle it safely. I provided a few dummy 9mm rounds so she could get used to cycling the action, and advised her to keep the gun handy at home so she could pick it up once in a while and get more familiar. Then we went to the range where she had no trouble at all picking up the basics of shooting the Glock.

If I am a safety Nazi, so be it. I could not live with myself if I did not do a good job at it, and a tragedy occurred.

Wayne^^^this right here is the way. It sounds like you taught her that the Glock safety is in between her ears and gave her the power to see that for herself.

[dverna]

At the meeting I am hoping to have, my approach is to show him how quickly a bolt action is opened….making it safe. Even with a magazine full of cartridges, (which I believe should be emptied), a gun cannot fire with the action open. If he insists an engaged safety is good enough, I am done. It takes less than two seconds to open a bolt and 5 seconds to remove the detachable magazine. I can live with the loaded magazine in the gun even though I know it is wrong.

I have been accused of creating drama and spoiling his camp experience but it was my butt sitting on a loaded rifle. BTW, the night the loaded gun was left on the seat of the Ranger, a 10 year old and 3 year old boy came to the camp. If the gun had been left there, who knows what might have happened. The 10 year old knows guns…the 3 year old…not so much.

I cannot tell from 10 feet away if a safety is engaged. I will not trust a safety anyway. I can tell if the action is open from 30 feet away. If asking to invest less than 10 seconds to be safe is creating drama, there is a lack of common sense.

Are there any words of wisdom you guys can share to help me make my point?

I was wrong to open the bolt on the gun standing against the wall. I had to open the action on the gun nestled against my posterior.

[curiousgeorge]

Don,
Stick to your guns, but for the sake of your friendship with the other parties, be prepared to meet with resistance and know when it's time to associate less with the group. Your last post above is probably your best approach.

I had a 170 acre farm that was a deer and turkey hunters heaven. A river bounded the back side with plenty of small mouth and catfish. Fixed up an old house for a hunting camp and had friends come to deer hunt on a regular basis. But my rules were the rules and had to be obeyed. No loaded guns in the house was first and foremost. No drinking unless all weapons were cleared and put in the gun cabinet in the back room. No weapons to be even in the rooms where we ate, slept, and socialized. One of my nephews showed up in the middle of the night one deer season and had been drinking. I took his rifle and locked it in the trunk of my car. The next morning when we were all leaving for the stands, he still wasn't sober, so back to bed he went and all weapons were removed from the house and locked in vehicles. Not one of the other hunters wanted to risk a half sober person with access to a loaded gun in their presence. I didn't ban him from the farm, but he got the point pretty quick when he wasn't allowed to hunt and discovered he was on clean up duty that weekend.

I truly feel your pain and hope you can help them to be more safety conscious and still be able to remain friends.

[M-Tecs]

Don you are in a tough spot. Showing him how to operate a bolt gun may come off as condescending? That will not help.

If you guys are friends, I would simply request (out of respect to you) that he requires chambers to be empty and bolts open in camp and in or on vehicles. If you are not friends not much you can do other than stating if the safety standards don't improve you will stop hunting with them AND you will stop any assistance you are providing as a worker bee/neighbor. Without negativity consequences people rarely change. If it was me that would include access to your range.

From your other posts it sounds like your land is adjoining or located very close. Is it within rifle range for a stray round? That would be about 3 miles.

For whitetail hunting there is no legitimate reason a round chambered in camp or in vehicles. If they can't show you enough respect to make the firearms safe around you and your property you are just being tolerated and used.

[MaryB]

We had 1 exception to a loaded shotgun(slug only where I am) in the house during deer season. Whoever drew the long straw and got the cozy seat by the upper deck patio door. It looked down on a ravine deer used to get to the creek. Sit in a nice soft chair with your sleeves rolled up, stocking feet, shotgun leaning on the wall by the door loaded with safety on. NO kids allowed in the house during the day, at night they would come to eat with us and see everyone but then guns were all in the gun room after cleaning and oiling, they usually needed to dry out so they didn't ice up the next morning. Fun and joy of hunting in southern MN early November! Often had fog or drizzle during the day, guns took a beating. One year freezing rain really made things suck, I pulled the trigger on a nice buck to only hear "click" because the firing pin was frozen solid in ice!

[MrWolf]

Don you are in a tough spot. Showing him how to operate a bolt gun may come off as condescending? That will not help.

If you guys are friends, I would simply request (out of respect to you) that he requires chambers to be empty and bolts open in camp and in or on vehicles. If you are not friends not much you can do other than stating if the safety standards don't improve you will stop hunting with them AND you will stop any assistance you are providing as a worker bee/neighbor. Without negativity consequences people rarely change. If it was me that would include access to your range.

From your other posts it sounds like your land is adjoining or located very close. Is it withing rifle range for a stray round? That would be about 3 miles.

For whitetail hunting there is no legitimate reason a round chambered in camp or in vehicles. If they can't show you enough respect to make the firearms safe around you and your property you are just being tolerated and used.

Agreed. If he is a friend then talking and not showing is the best move. Either way accept the fact things will probably change. Good luck.
Ron

[dverna]

Great advice M-Tec! It would be condescending. And yes, our properties border each other.

I will state my case when I see him and not involve the other members. The more I ponder on this, the more it looks like I will be leaving deer camp for rifle season. A person who resists taking 10 seconds to make a gun safe, so he can prove he is the "boss", is letting emotions override common sense.

As to helping out...it is what we do for neighbors. It is over an hour round trip to town to pick up stuff. And some jobs need help/expertise he does not have. No reason to sever the relationship over this. Deer camp is less than two weeks, and they typically hunt less than 7 days. We are neighbors the rest of year.

[ulav8r]

About 60 years ago, so the details are somewhat fuzzy. A man who lived about 1-2 miles north of us was hunting with his son. As they got out of the truck the son pulled his 30-30 out/off of the floor of the truck. It discharged and shot the father as he was retrieving his gun. DRT. Did not know them and never knew more than that.

[dverna]

The camp owner cancelled our meeting on the 30th, told me not to participate for the balance of the year, and suggested we meet in the spring to review my status for next year.

I will not accept that a loaded gun with the safety engaged is a “safe” gun. This will end my participation at deer camp. If he wants to continue our relationship as good neighbors that is his call.

Like I stated earlier. He is a good guy and the other camp members are great guys too. Some either lack an understanding of safe gun handling, or chose to ignore those rules to conform. Not a price I am willing to pay to be “accepted”.

[buckwheatpaul]

I have had two incidents this year.

The first was on my range. I let the guys use my range to sight in. Three weeks ago was the sight in session. One guy wanted to load his magazine and not take the magazine out when he went downrange to check his target. I told him to single load and keep the bolt open after the shot. He refused to do so. It got heated. I told him, my range, and my rules; and if he would not comply to get off my property and not come back. The others were quiet, but I found out later they told the guy he was wrong when they got back to camp.

Two days ago, I went to camp after the morning hunt. There was a gun leaning on the side of building with the bolt closed. I opened the bolt a round ejected. The gun belonged to the camp owner/leader. He told me it was safe because the safety was engaged. I gave him that *** look.

I have been labeled "the safety Nazi" for a few years. It started when I advised the camp owner he should not go out alone to service the 20+ tree stands. Too easy to slip and fall. They never or rarely wear safety gear. I live beside the camp, and told him to give a call and I would ride along in the SxS in case something happened.

I also suggested if the guys were hunting alone to let me, or someone, know where they are hunting and when they get back to camp. If something happens, I can help or get help.

BTW, last week one of their friends fell out of a tree stand and died.

In the past, being the "safety Nazi" has mostly been good natured ribbing but I am getting tired of it and will not compromise on gun safety.

They are great guys and I enjoy their company. I cannot understand the stubbornness wrt what seem reasonable safety protocols...especially when it comes to gun safety. Am I being a grumpy old fart who is too anal?

I am an "honorary" member and pay no dues. I do not hunt the camp until after opening week when they typically are not there but help out a bit during work bees. I really appreciated being invited and becoming part of the "gang".

But the gun safety thing is bothering me. I plan to tell the guys today I will "make a gun safe" without asking for permission. And that means, an open action and an empty magazine in the gun.

What do you folks think?

Don, Do not compromise....safety first even if it makes 'em mad! I have worked countless shootings (intentionally, accidentally, and suicides). My agency ran a hot range and when I joined a gun club and they run a cold range with bolt open, ammo out, no one handles the guns while someone is down range,etc. at first I though it was a bunch of bologna.....but you would be surprised the number of accidental discharges I worked as we were too casual about our weapons while being active L.E. ....

so I gladly endorse what you preach as feeling hurt dont hurt as bad as a misplaced bullet in someone. I am lucky enough to hunt my own place but I still tell my better half where I plan to hunt and make sure my phone is with me! The older we get the more cautious we become and I for one like a good measure of safety and caution!

[Handloader109]

If you are only talking about a 2 week time frame, I'd have a quick talk to discuss the rifle left loaded that you sat on, and tell him you aren't comfortable with the safety of the camp and you prefer to bow out as you don't want to be a victim, nor under any investigation WHEN someone gets shot.
Your range is off limits to anyone when you aren't around, and anyone coming to use it will have to hear and agree to MY range rules.
I'll help you as a neighbor the rest of the year.
And just walk away from the hunting. No big long drawn out deal to try and change a bunch of folks whom you most likely won't. His land, his camp, his rules or lack thereof.

Dang, I wrote this and didn't hit send an hour ago. Looks like he made the decision. I'd just let it go and if he approaches you later, tell him thanks but no thanks. Zero skin off you.

[Handloader109]

Just because a fellow is a great guy doesn't mean you have to accept HIS ineptitude and casual attitude towards items that kill.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[elmacgyver0]

I went deer hunting once and had a blast, never got a shot that would have been safe, but still had a blast.
The next year I got invited again and I got my tag and was ready to go, but just heard that one of the guys I was going with almost shot his brother because he shot at a noise.
I gave them my tag and said no thanks.
That was the end of my deer hunting.