Missouri Bullets in new 1894 Classic - 44 Mag

[vonb]

I recently tried the new Ruger/Marlin 1894 Classic in 44 Mag. I was shooting 10.0 gr Unique behind a Hi-Tek coated Missouri Bullet TCFP in Starline brass. The MB TCFPs have an 18 BHN according to them. With that said, I was started to see pressure signs (cratered primers) and couldn't understand why. It was until I got home that I noticed severe leading in the barrel. With that said, I have a couple questions:

1) Is 10.0 gr of Unique too much for this gun/load? I figure they are running right around the 1,400 fps mark.
2) What should be an approximate load using Unique to reduce the fouling and still achieve accuracy?

[FergusonTO35]

I would try a slower powder. 10 grains Unique might be too fast of a push and causing the boolit to skid across the rifling.

[murf205]

What diameter are those boolits? Are they bevel base? Might need to slug your barrel to find what diameter the groove is and go .001 larger. Gas checks could be your friend too. Unique will do fine if you are not striving for bazooka loads and 18 BHN is plenty hard. It sounds like you have a skinny boolit. BTW what weight is that Missouri boolit?

[fordwannabe]

What are the bullets sized? In my 44 mag rifles I must use 430 or larger. If I use 429 I get leading. 10 grauns of Unique is a time tested standard load for these guns it is NOT your problem. Sizing and hardness are more likely causes of your issues.

[vonb]

What are the bullets sized? In my 44 mag rifles I must use 430 or larger. If I use 429 I get leading. 10 grauns of Unique is a time tested standard load for these guns it is NOT your problem. Sizing and hardness are more likely causes of your issues.


The bullets are .430 and are 240 gr and are a bevel base as seen below. Targets on paper were round and did not have any appearance of yaw.

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=224&category=5&secondary=12&keywords=

Base on shooting this load in other 44 mag carbines, I didn't think they were loaded too hot. I believe 11 gr is max. However, after shooting these with the lead building up, I had the lever spring back after the shot which really concerned me. I've been loading for bolt actions for 20 years. Lever guns and cast bullets are new to me. At this point, I'm going to stop with the cast bullets and re-develop a load with jacketed bullets.

[fordwannabe]

Instead of giving up on cast boolits in that rifle pm me your addy and I will send some property sized and powder coated bullets out to you to try. These will be the same as I use in my 44 carbine.
Tom
Ps no charge at all.

[Hickok]

I have one of the new Ruger/Marlins 1894 carbines. The grooves slug at .430".

I size at .432" to fit all my .44 calibers,...and the New Marlin will group 3 shots into 1"-1.5" @ 50 yards with the stock iron sight. I do have the rear sight adjusted 6 steps/clicks up for a good zero. I may change front sight bead to a slightly lower one.

This new Marlin will feed SWC's, round flat nose truncated cone boolits. It is not picky about cartridge length.

[Larry Gibson]

The bullets are .430 and are 240 gr and are a bevel base as seen below. Targets on paper were round and did not have any appearance of yaw.

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=224&category=5&secondary=12&keywords=

Base on shooting this load in other 44 mag carbines, I didn't think they were loaded too hot. I believe 11 gr is max. However, after shooting these with the lead building up, I had the lever spring back after the shot which really concerned me. I've been loading for bolt actions for 20 years. Lever guns and cast bullets are new to me. At this point, I'm going to stop with the cast bullets and re-develop a load with jacketed bullets.

If you have any of those bullets left you might try giving them a coat of LLA as per Lee's instructions and let them thoroughly dry before loading. I know PC'd bullets are supposed to be the cat's meow but leading in some firearms with them is a real issue. Many times the coat of LLA cures the problem as well as it does with commercial cast having the hard wax lube.

[vonb]

I have one of the new Ruger/Marlins 1894 carbines. The grooves slug at .430".

I size at .432" to fit all my .44 calibers,...and the New Marlin will group 3 shots into 1"-1.5" @ 50 yards with the stock iron sight. I do have the rear sight adjusted 6 steps/clicks up for a good zero. I may change front sight bead to a slightly lower one.

This new Marlin will feed SWC's, round flat nose truncated cone boolits. It is not picky about cartridge length.

Hickok,
Would you mind sharing your load data? I'm concerned I created an over-pressure situation with the 10 gr of Unique and lead stripping in the barrel.

[dverna]

The bullets are .430 and are 240 gr and are a bevel base as seen below. Targets on paper were round and did not have any appearance of yaw.

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=224&category=5&secondary=12&keywords=

Base on shooting this load in other 44 mag carbines, I didn't think they were loaded too hot. I believe 11 gr is max. However, after shooting these with the lead building up, I had the lever spring back after the shot which really concerned me. I've been loading for bolt actions for 20 years. Lever guns and cast bullets are new to me. At this point, I'm going to stop with the cast bullets and re-develop a load with jacketed bullets.

Max load for 245 gr cast is about 12-13 gr of Unique and you are well under that.

Are you sure you used 11 gr? I would pull 5 bullets and check the charges to take that out of the mix. As to sizing/lube, you have had good advice.

One last thought, are you sure you used Unique? People have used the wrong powder before, or dumped the powder into the wrong jug after a loading session. I nearly did that a number of years ago. After that "near miss" I never have more than one jug on the bench at a time.

[Hickok]

Hickok,
Would you mind sharing your load data? I'm concerned I created an over-pressure situation with the 10 gr of Unique and lead stripping in the barrel.Von, I haven't used Unique in my rifles.

I use Alliant 2400 powder.....17gr to 20gr with cast 245gr. to 255gr bullets. All are gas-checked and sized .432" with Smoke's powdercoat.

I tend to load on light side with 2400 because I have a Winchester 1892 .44 magnum with a crescent steel buttplate that really bites when shooting 20-30 rounds.

My Henry .44 mag and new Marlin/Ruger 1894 are more comfortable with heavy loads, but I decided to load 17 gr./2400 for all my rifles. Getting about 1400-1500 fps. Plenty of power and nice to shoot.

[Bazoo]

I'd say you have a combination of issues, none of which would be a 10 grains of Unique load.

The main issue is likely the bullets. Bevel based bullets are known to lead easier. Your bullets are BHN 18, which is too hard for your pressure. A BHN of about 12 would be about right for your pressure range.

Did you measure your bullets and make sure they are indeed .430 all the way around? If any part of the bullet is smaller, it most likely will cause leading. If your rifle's groove diameter is .431, then you will get leading with .430 diameter bullets.

Lastly, if you switch to a gas checked bullet, most likely it'll be an instant and easy fix.

[vonb]

It was definitely Unique and 10 gr was verified with a beam scale and an RCBS electronic scale. The leading I removed after shooting 100 rounds was considerable. I did use a Lee FCD which may have re-sized them when going through the carbide "ring".