40 cal case bulge

[Bill Allen]

I couldn't find if this was brought up before. but I have a few hundred pieces of 40 brass that won't case gauge even after sizing they seem to be a small swelling near the base. I had thought of going to a lee or rcbs bulge buster but the more i read about bulging cases I wonder if it's recommended. I must of bought the brass off someone since I've never loaded or shot them. What's the opinion here? Thanks Bill

[Winger Ed.]

Sometimes ammo fired in a Glock are problematic like that.

I'd try the bulge buster, but it it doesn't fix them, they're gonners.

[Bill Allen]

In the course of trying to decide what to do I read some stuff that claimed the cases would be thinned from the "swelling" I figured they were probably shot out of a Glock. Its not a biggie to trash them but it seems like a waste. On the other hand I really don't want any problems.

[popper]

toss em. Unsupported chamber (feed ramp area) in older Glocks. Watch out for 40SW brass head stamp FC - known case head failure - a real surprise when it goes.

[TomAM]

I use the Redding push-through die.
Works great.

[upnorthwis]

I've seen the same thing, but they pass the "plunk test" and I've been shooting then for years with no problem.

[BK7saum]

What does your chamber tell you? A lot of cases might not pass a gauge, but will chamber freely. If they plunk in your chamber, Id load and shoot them.

A little bulge is fine, if they have the "Glock smiley" from the unsupported feed ramp, I'd toss them. If you see no obvious marks or "smiles" they shouldn't be damaged.

[barnetmill]

Well that is called a glock smile.
The below does not look too terrible
https://www.glocktalk.com/attachments/glock-smile-jpg.194355/

or like below that looks worst.

https://www.glocktalk.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=192 0,fit=scale-down/https://www.glocktalk.com/attachments/glock-brass-3-jpg.295890/

[stubshaft]

When I first became involved in shooting 40 S&W's (about 25 years ago) I bought some once fired brass from the Police Department. A lot of the cases appeared identical to yours and was told that they were probably fired in Glocks too. I bought one of the Lee "Bulge-busters" and ran close to 5,000 cases through it. To date, I have never experienced a web failure in shooting them through all three of my pistols.

[barnetmill]

I am putting together a G22 as a general defensive pistol for my little estate in Florida. It is in 9mm at the moment, but I have decided that a heavily load forty with speer 180 gold dots with longshot powder would be the best general purpose load say at close to 1100 fps using an after market 5 inch barrel. Should work well on bad people & auto sheet metal and if needed on a up to medium hog or medium black bear.
I have 1,000s of rounds of once fired brass from sales and also trading.
For longshot powder and a 4 inch barrel.
I will get a 5 inch after market barrel if I cut the charge maybe 0.75 grains I likely can still get close to 1100 is what I figure with a 5 inch barrel.
6.3 1,013 26,200 PSI
7.5 1,150 33,400 PSI

The point is to keep the pressure at 30K PSI. I always try to load a little under the top listed pressure. 1100 should result mushrooming of the bullet, butthe 180 golddot should hopefully still penetrate if I ever had a conflict with a bear.

Speer Gold Dot Bullets 40 S&W, 10mm Auto (400 Diameter) 180 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 100
1111 Reviews
List Price is $46.99. Our Price is $37.99.

$37.99($0.38 per bullet) out stock. at midway.

[barnetmill]

toss em. Unsupported chamber (feed ramp area) in older Glocks. Watch out for 40SW brass head stamp FC - known case head failure - a real surprise when it goes.

Is the FC for federal cartridge. I guess it is worth looking up if some cases are known for failure.

[barnetmill]

Is the FC for federal cartridge. I guess it is worth looking up if some cases are known for failure.

I did a quick google and from the highroad:



Jun 11, 2004

#3

It's not a model issue.

It's related to several things.

1. Glocks don't tolerate lead bullets well due to the rifling method used. Using lead bullets can cause a dangerous increase chamber pressures during firing.

2. .40 S&W ammunition is very sensitive to bullet setback with the 180 grain loading being the most sensitive. Even relatively small amounts of bullet setback in this loading can cause chamber pressures during firing to rise to unsafe levels.

3. Glock chambers are cut on the generous side which allows the brass to expand more than usual upon firing. This weakens the brass more than normal which means that using reloaded brass, or especially reloading .40 brass from rounds shot in a Glock can compound the #2 problem while also increasing the chances that the case will fail.

If you stick to high quality factory ammo with bullet weights under 180 grains and stay away from aluminum case ammo, you should have no problem. Federal ammo seems to be over-represented in the failures associated with factory ammo--might want to stay away from them although I usually recommend their ammo in most cases.

For what it's worth, this phenomenon is not limited to Glocks. There have been kB!s in most brands--and in other calibers than .40. The .40 Glock does seem to get more than its share, but it's likely that some of this is due to the large number of these guns in service.

[Bill Allen]

being the cheap sucker I am It's killin me but in the scrape heap they go, just too many questions and no posistive answers. I like my 40's and shooting but this isn't, to my way of thinking, a safe thing to just hope it's all good. Blew a 45 up a while ago never figured out what really caused it. I really don't want to have that happen again. Thanks Bill

[Rapier]

If the web wil not resize with a normal sizing die, toss it. If the primer pocket is enlarged, toss it. No if and or buts, scrap it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I bought the Lee bulge buster kit.
So, when I buy 40S&W range brass:
First I inspect them visually, and reject anything I can see that looks suspect. Then I size the whole batch with a bulge buster. If you are correctly setup, it goes faster than sizing cast bullets with a Lee push through sizer. If one case seems extra difficult, then it gets another inspection and maybe culled. After several hundred, you'll develop a feel.
That's my 2¢
good luck.

[Soundguy]

bulge buster.. push thru sizer.. lee fcd if it is the style with the carbide ring to iron out cases..etc..

[popper]

FC head stamp has a known case head fracture and was recalled. Toss it! I shot one, entire case head came off, left the body in the chamber. Didn't damage the pistol.

[Bill Allen]

If the web wil not resize with a normal sizing die, toss it. If the primer pocket is enlarged, toss it. No if and or buts, scrap it.

This is I think the proper responce for me. It's just not worth it to save a few pieces of brass then screw up a gun or me. If you've never had a gun "blow" up it's not pleasent and underwear ain't cheap

[gnappi]

I too toss "Glocked" brass, it's not worth the trouble to sort, and prepare them.

[Bill Allen]

One of the deal breakers for me (other then the potential safety issue) was the cost of saving cases between bulge buster and die to say nothing of time. I think it just not for me. Thanks Bill

[gloob]

If it's all matching headstamp, the bulge isn't too bad, and they look like they could be OF'd, I will take the chance they are OF'd and debulge them.

If there is a similar looking bulge in mixed headstamps from the same range find, I won't keep them, even if they look OF'd. That's a strange coincidence unless they're from the same reloader who fired them hot an unknown number of times.

It costs only ~$3, if you already have a 45 ACP sizing die. You just need a push stem and Lee sells them. I think Lee has a minimum shipping charge of $7, now. So price might be up unless you need more stuff.

[avogunner]

All the others here have diagnosed the issue - shot in an unsupported chamber, i.e. Glocks. Yes, the Lee bulge buster works (I have one) but if you load a lot of 40S&W, the best/fastest way to take care of the problem is to get a roll sizer. I have sent off a MFRB of .40 to a guy that preps brass, including roll sizing, so for a couple of cents a round it was all taken care of.
Semper Fi

[BrassMagnet]

I bought the Lee bulge buster kit.
So, when I buy 40S&W range brass:
First I inspect them visually, and reject anything I can see that looks suspect. Then I size the whole batch with a bulge buster. If you are correctly setup, it goes faster than sizing cast bullets with a Lee push through sizer. If one case seems extra difficult, then it gets another inspection and maybe culled. After several hundred, you'll develop a feel.
That's my 2¢
good luck.

I agree with JonB_in_Glencoe, except I bought the Magma Case Master Jr which is an Arbor press with a case feeder and I feed it with a Dillon case feeder. Always lube and always clean the lube off promptly. I do a quick inspection after the first tumbling while spray lubing and again after the second tumbling.
A real badly bulged case will go straight to scrap. Think of a badly bulged case as one that is bulged out badly (.005"+ all around the case for 3/16" or more) as these as so weakened they are likely to case head separate in the rimless sizer. I suspect these cases were actually fired full auto and I see them in 9 and 40.
Also, if it takes a lot of force to size a case, it has also been bulged too badly to trust. When lubed adequately, you will soon notice these as distinctly different than the rest.

[BrassMagnet]

This is I think the proper responce for me. It's just not worth it to save a few pieces of brass then screw up a gun or me. If you've never had a gun "blow" up it's not pleasent and underwear ain't cheap

As far as I am concerned, you are missing part of the point and a very important point at that! All rimless brass fired through a semi-auto should be sized with a push thru sizing die of some kind. Sometimes the bulge is too small to see, will not be reduced in any sizing die which uses a shell holder, and is still bulged enough to jam your pistol with an unclearable jam. Bust the bulge on all and personally decide what your standard for reloading is.

Even if you "only reload brass fired in your pistol" it is possible to pick up brass with yours with the same head stamp which can cause you a problem.

[georgerkahn]

I agree with JonB_in_Glencoe, except I bought the Magma Case Master Jr which is an Arbor press with a case feeder and I feed it with a Dillon case feeder. Always lube and always clean the lube off promptly. I do a quick inspection after the first tumbling while spray lubing and again after the second tumbling.
A real badly bulged case will go straight to scrap. Think of a badly bulged case as one that is bulged out badly (.005"+ all around the case for 3/16" or more) as these as so weakened they are likely to case head separate in the rimless sizer. I suspect these cases were actually fired full auto and I see them in 9 and 40.
Also, if it takes a lot of force to size a case, it has also been bulged too badly to trust. When lubed adequately, you will soon notice these as distinctly different than the rest.

I also agree with JonB_in_Glencoe, and also have purchased a similar Magma Case Master, albeit my Magma unit is for 40S&W/10mm. I used it for the latter, having gotten a deal on enough bulged 10mm brass to make it worth the purchase. I will add that mine is "heavier than a dead minister", as they say; and, kind of bulky to store. I have mine bolted to an oak board so I may hang it n a wall when not in use. Regardless -- if you are anticipating needing lots of cases restored, I can not think of a better unit to purchase!
geo

[Shiloh]

Lee bulge buster.
Size first, then run thru the bulge buster.

Shiloh

[popper]

Once brass is stretched, you don't have big enough press to 'un-stretch' it. You just move metal to another location. That bulge is in the web. You just push it inside.

[JimB..]

Once brass is stretched, you don't have big enough press to 'un-stretch' it. You just move metal to another location. That bulge is in the web. You just push it inside.

True.

I have a bucket of glocked 40 that will one day be used to swage 45acp bullets. Thinking about it, they may not stabilize, shoot.

[barnetmill]

Once brass is stretched, you don't have big enough press to 'un-stretch' it. You just move metal to another location. That bulge is in the web. You just push it inside.

But the external dimensions are restored and that is important for function.

[georgerkahn]

Once brass is stretched, you don't have big enough press to 'un-stretch' it. You just move metal to another location. That bulge is in the web. You just push it inside.

I cannot speak for ANY brass other than the h*u*g*e bucket of 10mm Auto I bought on the super-cheap due to the bulge. Using the Star Magma machine (I bought just for this), I recall only one case NOT being restored to "like virgin, new" condition, and that was due to a case mouth issue. I ran a set of spring-loaded inside distance tool -- looks like a divider except you adjust maximum width -- and I had not a single one with any internal variation. Maybe due to the brass I bought -- again, it was brand new, fired ONCE stuff; the calibre; or, perhaps (for once in my life) I got lucky?
But, again, my brass was formed back to original design.
geo

[SoonerEd]

I use the Redding push-through die.
Works great.

/\ This is what I do...works great on thousands that I've sized.

[Photog]

I used a hacked off Lee sizing die and boolit sizing stem (pusher) for years. I wound up buying a U-die from Henning as my main sizing die after the push through sizing. They don't really need the U-die, but you get more rounds in the custom mags for USPSA Limited. Anyways, shot lots of resized glocked out 40 cases with no ill effects.
For cheap and easy, hack a regular sizing die, push it through and load it up, that's the beauty of straight wall cases.

[Rapier]

Sounds like you would be miles ahead with a supported chamber barrel for the 40. As the 40s are all factory loaded to max pressure limits to start with. So if you expect to reload a 40 to factory and shoot it in you gun, with an unsupported chamber you are screwing up.
I got two Glock 23s in 40 finished and reloaded for them with #9, one full grain under, with 180s in new brass. If they bulge bad, I will pull the bullets and reduce the loads furthur. Never wanted a 40, plan on making them into 357 Sigs and have those barrels also.

[pcmacd]

I have fired tens of thousands of modestly hard lead rounds thru G19s and G22s. No issues at all, but I never load to the max... a couple tenths down.

Range salvage + 2% tin +3% antimony via foundry type.

[popper]

JimB you will be swaging so not a problem. Cold forming to a new shape. I don't load 40 hot and I don't want a blown up gun so I toss bad brass. Do what you want.

[SoonerEd]

I use the Redding push-through die.
Works great.

This is what I do and works fine.

[barnetmill]

I just threw away some boxer primed russain steel case tula fired. I suspect that does cases will never get a bulge or smile into them.
I just ordered: from lone wolf and extended barrel for my G 22 and hopefully it fits. Barrel Length: 5.85in (148mm) Caliber: 40sw
An inch plus of new barrel is one way of getting some more velocity without jacking up pressures too. I want at least a 1,000 ft/s with 180 bullets and might even go a little bit faster with longshot powder. I do have a 41 colt mold and I believe to be .40 cal, but I will need to measure it because it might be less. If it is .40 cal I might try some of the 200 grain bullets in the gun.
I have also ordered a 22 lb spring for it to better handle heavier recoil.

[GONRA]

GONRA's never used this - but THOUGHT ya'll could purchase
a "ROLL SIZER" for "bulged" 9mm and .40 S&W cases? ??
Probably EXPENSIVE but might be worth the $$$$ trouble if ya reload lottsa these? ??

[barnetmill]

Here is my black bear special that I just put together last night. G22 with 5 5/8" lone wolf g35 threaded barrel, eps holosun, and wolff spring recoil 22 lb spring. heavy striker spring.

Hodgdon loading center data.
Bullet: 180 GR. HDY XTP
Diameter: 0.400"
Case: Hornady
Primer: Winchester SP, Small Pistol
4* inch barrel longshot powder _.0gr 1,159fps 32,300 PSI
*My barrel 5 5/8 inches



321420

[gloob]

I rather a G35, but with a good price on a used 22...

There's obviously a safety concern with bulged brass. And there's a reason it's called "Glocked." Glock was the first to make and sell a lot of 40SW guns, and early versions had poor support.

The reason I don't lose any sleep over using de-bulged brass is because when I reload the same brass, it doesn't bulge anymore. Even when I shoot it in my Glock.

Hmm... I suppose if you buy a used G22, it might have poorly supported chamber. Then you might want to buy a new barrel... so not so much savings?

[barnetmill]

I rather a G35, but with a good price on a used 22...

There's obviously a safety concern with bulged brass. And there's a reason it's called "Glocked." Glock was the first to make and sell a lot of 40SW guns, and early versions had poor support.

The reason I don't lose any sleep over using de-bulged brass is because when I reload the same brass, it doesn't bulge anymore. Even when I shoot it in my Glock.

Hmm... I suppose if you buy a used G22, it might have poorly supported chamber. Then you might want to buy a new barrel... so not so much savings?
I purchased a police trade in several years ago.
The list price for G35 with mos cut is about $700. I already have one G22 on hand that I had set up as a G17. So for $200 I purchased a slide with the cut already made. New barrel was a G35 threaded barrel $135. So $335 vs with taxes, transfer fees, shipping, etc $700.
33k psi is not really high pressure and of course will depend on how much support there for the cases. The extra strong recoil springs will make sure that the gun is truly absolutely as closed much as possible. Some of the 40 kaboom explosions may not of had the slide absolutely 100% forward. With newly assembled gun or one that is dirty such things can happen. With the current OEM barrel on test firing I had one or two with a light strikes that were off center that failed to fire. Indicates that the slide not fully forward. I have had this happen before with newly assembled guns. Goes away once gun is broken in. A stronger recoil spring will also take care of that and heavy loads a strong recoil spring is not a bad idea. I also have a full strength firing pin spring in the gun. The gun will be used under harsh conditions.
A g35 offers no advantage over a G22 with lengthened barrel that I can see.

PS just purchased that redding die to remove bulges and most of my empty cases were not fired in a glock.

[20:1]

Well that is called a glock smile.
The below does not look too terrible
https://www.glocktalk.com/attachments/glock-smile-jpg.194355/

or like below that looks worst.

https://www.glocktalk.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=192 0,fit=scale-down/https://www.glocktalk.com/attachments/glock-brass-3-jpg.295890/

If they look like this I pitch 'em. I normally use a Lee 40 S&W carbide Factory Crimp Die with the guts removed as a push through bulge buster. A bullet pusher from a Cast Bullet Push Through Sizing Die works perfectly, I'm using one from a .357 for .40. I bulge bust first, then full length resize. The only other step is to make sure the case will make a full rotation in my shell holder so I know the extractor groove area is still within spec. I'm working my way through approx. 21,000 40 cases from a Police range. It's going to take awhile.

[barnetmill]

Steel boxer primed cases. So far I have thrown them away, but I think a russian steel case boxer primed 40 could easily be reloaded.
Do the steel cases get smileys?

[scattershot]

.40 cases are cheap and plentiful. Pitch ‘em. They’re not worth the aggravation.

[barnetmill]

.40 cases are cheap and plentiful. Pitch ‘em. They’re not worth the aggravation.

What is the aggravation if they are boxer primed? What has been your experience with them? But the question was how well do they handle pressure. I have 30 pounds of brass cases, interest is not saving money, but being able to safely load hot 40 S&W loads.

[gloob]

Thanks for the details. It's been awhile since I bought a new gun, and maybe $300-after-shipping cost of the G22 trade-ins had caught my eye.

But seeing the pictures of these bulged cases, it's more like $450 if I have to buy a new barrel! Seems like this info would be out there, what kind of case support these trade-ins might have. My gen 3 40SW barrels could not produce cases like those!

[20:1]

At an average of around three cents per case plus shipping, you could buy a lot of 40 brass for the price of a barrel.

[elmacgyver0]

At an average of around three cents per case plus shipping, you could buy a lot of 40 brass for the price of a barrel.

Yep, and most of it fired in Glocks.

[Bmi48219]

Steel boxer primed cases. So far I have thrown them away, but I think a russian steel case boxer primed 40 could easily be reloaded.
Do the steel cases get smileys?

Don’t know about smileys but a couple friends that have tried reloading steel case reported problems with getting a firm crimp. That was back a while when 40 brass wasn’t so plentiful.

[barnetmill]

Don’t know about smileys but a couple friends that have tried reloading steel case reported problems with getting a firm crimp. That was back a while when 40 brass wasn’t so plentiful.

Well that would be a deal breaker for sure. I would not want to try anneal steel case for sure.