Lost my natural gas, along with 37k other folks in the area.

[Idaho45guy]

Thankfully, I only use it for heat, and not cooking and hot water like a few of my coworkers.

I also have a supplemental electric fireplace/TV stand with a thermostat, and some extra space heaters. Bringing in one of the space heaters for a coworker to use since all of them were sold out in the region while we were stuck at work.


https://www.bigcountrynewsconnection.com/local/avista-says-restoring-natural-gas-services-could-start-friday-will-take-3-5-days-to/article_867d20a0-7f03-11ee-9935-ff54124a93c0.html

[uscra112]

The contractor who breached the pipeline will surely be held liable. (And I'll bet the machine operator need a change of underwear.) It's not like nobody knows where those lines are.

But yeah, everyone should have backup. As the preppers say, "two is one and one is none".

My primary heat was wood, but when I became disabled I was darned glad I had installed some electric cove radiant in bedroom and bath for backup, at the urging of family.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Good thing it's ONLY the gas that's out. I scratched around last year and found a 19,000BTU propane/ceramic heater at Tractor Supply for under $150. (might have been closer to $100.) now I gotta remember to get the spare tank filled. I should also top off my Kerosine supply for the hurricane lanterns. Some of them give off 2,000BTU as well as light. One came with an adapter, small fry pan and a sauce pan big enough for a can of soup.

Around here it's electric we worry about.

[uscra112]

Only a little off topic - one of the stupider things the .fedgov has done to us is to force the gas pipeline operators to replace their gas-fueled internal-combustion powered compressors with electric. So when the grid goes down, the gas supply will too, which didn't used to be the case.

I suppose they could repurpose those big compressor engines to run standby generators, but will they? It would be spendy.

[uscra112]

I'd love to have a safe way to burn kerosene in my wood furnace. During WW2 some AAF guys in England rigged up a system that dripped avgas into a coal stove when they couldn't get coal, but it was gravity-fed, and I doubt it was foolproof against tent fires.

[Mk42gunner]

I'd love to have a safe way to burn kerosene in my wood furnace. During WW2 some AAF guys in England rigged up a system that dripped avgas into a coal stove when they couldn't get coal, but it was gravity-fed, and I doubt it was foolproof against tent fires.
When I was stationed on Adak, AK, I had one of the GI kits that was supposed to be safe (??) with diesel fuel, or a mix of lube oil and gasoline. The fuel supply ran from a five gallon jerry can.

Even in my drinking days it didn't seem very safe to me. When we decommissioned the base, it got turned into supply so it is either in a landfill on Adak or it is still in the Navy's supply system.

Robert

[BLAHUT]

Good thing it's ONLY the gas that's out. I scratched around last year and found a 19,000BTU propane/ceramic heater at Tractor Supply for under $150. (might have been closer to $100.) now I gotta remember to get the spare tank filled. I should also top off my Kerosine supply for the hurricane lanterns. Some of them give off 2,000BTU as well as light. One came with an adapter, small fry pan and a sauce pan big enough for a can of soup.

Around here it's electric we worry about.

I grew up with no amenity's; no electricity, no gas; all wood heat and for cooking; want running water ? tip the jug; it can still be done; my house up north of here, does not have any amenity's and is still live able; just takes a little planning; I do miss the air-conditioning though.

[uscra112]

Whom did you have to piss off to get stationed on Adak?

[uscra112]

Many. many years ago I worked for a machine tool rebuilder in Rhode Island. We got a substantial order from Colt's. Seems they had an early EDM machine that ran some flammable oil or other as the dielectric fluid, and had a gravity system that kept the tub full. The inevitable happened and "burned out half an acre of machine shop", as one of our guys put it. Have kept that in mind ever since.

[MUSTANG]

When I was stationed on Adak, AK, I had one of the GI kits that was supposed to be safe (??) with diesel fuel, or a mix of lube oil and gasoline. The fuel supply ran from a five gallon jerry can.

Even in my drinking days it didn't seem very safe to me. When we decommissioned the base, it got turned into supply so it is either in a landfill on Adak or it is still in the Navy's supply system.

Robert

We used those in Korea, Norway, and the Mountain Warfare Training Center. Diesel was the "Fuel of Choice" because it was less prone to a fire hazard. When temps dropped into the Teens to -30 Range, we would modify the 5 Gallon cans of Diesel with a specific amount of Gasoline based on a Chart that told us how the Gas to Diesel Ratio in the 5 Gallon Can to keep the fuel where it would still flow to the Stove.

Back in the Clinton Era; Her Highness decided to go visit "Gorillas in the Mist" lady in Africa. Our Battalion was participating in a Korean Exercise; and her Highness trip diverted all the C140's to Africa that were scheduled to haul our equipment from Korea back to Okinawa. Adding to the problem, there were no US Amphb ships or Commercial Carrier ships available to transport our Equipment back to Okinawa. So my C.O. had me take a detachment of 120 Marines and all the Battalion assets that were located in Korea up to the DMZ area where another Exercise was to be held in 8 months. So myself and the 120 Marines Wintered over. We set up 3 GP Tents joined Long Wise and had our Communications Center with HF, terrestrial Radio Systems and Satellite Radio Systems all butting into the GP Tents. One evening about 2100, it was about 17 degrees outside, I was in my Tent reading and heard a bunch of yelling; so I ran out and the Comm Center Tents had a portion on fire. Some of the "On the Ball" Sergeants began cutting the ropes and dropping all the canvas (They only save about $75 Million of equipment - value far greater in todays dollars). The fire was started - not by a malfunction of the Stoves MK42Gunner was citing; rather the feed system from the 5 Gallon cans. One young PFC had been assigned to check and refill all of the 5 Gallon Fuel cans for the night. When his battery flashlight went dark; he used his INITIATIVE; and was checking each of the 5 Gallon Fuel cans for how much fuel was in them - Using his cigarette lighter. :killingpc[smilie=b::dung_hits_fan:

Until the Young Marine rotated back to the US - He was known as PFC Fire Starter by all. Good news was that we only lost about 1/3rd of one tent - which Korean Tent Maintenance personnel from the US Army repaired in the field in a single day.

[MUSTANG]

I have belt, suspenders, and rope for heat at the Montana House. Wood Stove, Propane Heat and Propane Kitchen Stove (Battery Ignition), and Electricity/Heat Pump.

[pete501]

You're lucky to have access to natural gas. Communities are passing laws to outlaw natural gas for New Construction. The thinking is that electricity will produce less greenhouse gasses. Not sure they know how the electricity is generated.

[uscra112]

Not sure they know how the electricity is generated.

I knew a woman, back in the '70s. graduated Summa Cum Laude from Radcliffe, who seriously said "I don't believe in electricity. It has to be a form of magic."

This has to be the same thought mode that makes people accept electric vehicles.

Electric service here in my part of the upper Ohio Valley is very reliable. We're a co-op, and most of the generating plants are close by, (and coal fired). The distribution infrastructure is well maintained. Next county to the south of us, not so much. They're not part of the co-op.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I grew up with no amenity's; no electricity, no gas; all wood heat and for cooking; want running water ? tip the jug; it can still be done; my house up north of here, does not have any amenity's and is still live able; just takes a little planning; I do miss the air-conditioning though.

If we would loose power for an extended time, I still have a dug well I can draw water, a coal/wood stove in my shop and one I can hook up on the porch. An interesting item I inherited from a neighbor is a galvanized tub with a chimney and flu. It's factory made with instructions on the side. From what I remember it uses used motor oil as fuel. He bought it decades ago to heat his garage. It's hard to describe without photos, it's like a wash tub with a cover and chimney, it's about six feet high when assembled. I don't know as I would use it in a non-vented area though.

A/C-I can't sleep without it in the summer!

[elmacgyver0]

I have plenty of natural gas, I think it is a biproduct of old age.

[WILCO]

I have plenty of natural gas, I think it is a biproduct of old age.

Thanks for the laugh!

[Idaho45guy]

Supposedly going to get service back by next Tuesday. Doing just fine with my electric heaters with house holding at 67 degrees.

I talked to a friend of mine today that said he is really good friends with the farmer that caused the leak. The farmer was in his field installing drain tile with a system similar to this...

319776

The gas pipeline was installed in 1952 and was steel. 18" and 800psi of gas pressure. The farmer swears that the gas line markers were off by a few feet and that his drain tile digger was set at 3' down while the actual pipeline was much deeper. Furthermore, he said that the pipeline ruptured while his tractor was directly on top of the pipeline and that the digger hadn't even touched the pipeline when it blew. He claims that the pipeline had been so weakened by 70 years of being in the ground, that just the soil around it being disturbed was enough to cause it to fail.

The farmer claims he is completely innocent in this incident.

What I've seen stated in the news by the gas company is much different...

https://dnews.com/update-at-4-59-p-m-williams-companies-says-gas-pipeline-has-been-repaired-but/article_3fee6548-1eb1-5708-b12c-88671929d5c7.html?

The natural gas outage affecting the region started when a landowner pulling a plow through a field as he was installing a drainage pipe hit and ruptured the natural gas pipeline north of Pullman near U.S. Highway 195 on Wednesday afternoon.

The incident led to 37,000 Avista customers in southeastern Washington and north central Idaho to lose service.

Scott Rukke, director of the Washington Utilities and Transportation Commission, said it appears utility location services were not requested prior to the incident.

“They did not utilize 811. I can’t emphasize enough how important it is to call 811 two days before you dig.”

In this case, Rukke said it is likely representatives from Williams, the company that owns and maintains the pipeline, would have insisted on being onsite during the work.

He said the plow tore a large diameter hole in the 12.75 inch steel pipeline that was 41 inches deep at the site of the rupture.

“It had adequate depth. The legal depth would probably be about 30 inches.”

The agency sent two investigators to the rupture site Wednesday. He said they are on their way back to the commission's headquarters in Lacey, Wash., and will write a report on the incident.

[Idaho45guy]

Actual drone footage of the incident seems to back up the farmer's assertion...

319778

319779

319780

[Half Dog]

We have electric heat. Our governor says we won’t be without electricity.

[MUSTANG]

I grew up in the Panhandle of Texas - middle of the Oil Patch as they used to say. I believe the Farmer could be correct in that the Pipe "Just Blew" as he was deep plowing. The weight of the Surface soil could have kept a rusted section of pipe intact until it was disturbed. Worked some in the Oil Field summers as a 2nd/3rd job in Junior High School and High School years; and one would be amazed at some of the rust on products in the oil fields back then. Maintenance costs were expensive back then and has not decreased - deferred maintenance runs rampant.

[shdwlkr]

So many think that the gas lines are well defined as to location and depth, don't believe it when I worked road construction decades ago we found gas lines, phone lines that were much closer to the surface than listed in the company logs. Once when dreggina a river bottom that had two high pressure gas lines we found them 5 feet higher than the company told us. Yes the operator did need a change of clothes. On another job we cut the President off when we cut a several hundred pair phone line when excavating a creek bed, again not were the company told us and yes the President was not happy the call ended the way it did. We had a gas line hit here in Idaho a few weeks ago again seems the line was not were the maps said it was. just goes to show that not everything is where it belongs

[farmbif]

just another reminder to keep the woodshed full if you need it or not

[MUSTANG]

Not to mention that this morning there have been 3 references on Fox Business and Newsmax that "Experts" are forecasting significant Brownouts and Blackouts to some/all the Grid this winter.

One of the reasons we replaced the Montana House Electric Kitchen Range with a Propane powered on was for back up heat. We bought a unit that was exported to USofA from Canada - because it was built with Battey ignitors and WAS NOT California Compliant (which almost al Gs ranges sold now are). California Compliant Gas Ranges shut off Gas flow if the Power Goes off, supposedly to reduce risk of Gas fires in an earthquake; but that means in a Power Outage when that electric heat does not work; the Gas Range does not work and can not be used to help heat up the house as a back up.

[Thundarstick]

I go to church with a young man who's in the field tile laying busyness. He hit a line like that last year with his tile laying machine. The gas company tried to charge him $45,000 for the line repair until the farmer threatened to sue the gas company for the line being 19 feet inside his property line, away from the markers! He didn't pay one dime for the repair either!
When I lived in town my neighbor was having a pool installed. The contractors called for line markings beforehand of course. While digging the pool 10 feet from the markers he cut the gas line, and the whole neighborhood had to be evacuated!

So NO those lines aren't always where they say they are!

[.429&H110]

I paid for college on a gas pipe crew running jackhammer, pick and shovel, welders helper. Was fun.
I would think the weight of that rig could crack an old rotten pipe in soft ground without even hitting it.

We were on one side of the NorthShore Shopping center and a D-4 with a ripper on the other side found an 8" high pressure main, and lit it. Killed the guy. Dozer sat there in a ball of fire for awhile. Impressed my teenaged self that the main was staked 20 feet wrong.
We bet our ass on pictures painted on pavement. We broke a 600v streetlight service once. It turned on at 5PM. Bang.

One of my crews tasks was to re-lay old mains, so I got to see close up WWII or older bare steel laid in plain ground, wasn't much left of the steel. We were just starting to use plastic pipe, we mostly made high pressure plastic coated steel services. I painted and taped a lot of welds, and proved the cathodic protection worked because the crew peed on the anodes, dry anodes in dry soil didn't do much.

Down town Salem Mass was 1890's low pressure 18" or bigger cast iron. Was fun as a kid to make catholes in the middle of a busy street, put saddle clamps on the ancient oakum and lead joints. Nowadays the old cast iron is a conduit for new plastic pipe. I was certified to weld plastic pipe, whole subject made our crew welder take to drinking heavily.
He protested. Any idiot can weld plastic.

Worst part of the job was old granite cobblestones. Foreman collected them and sold them for $1 (1971$) each
so I was not allowed to even scratch them when I jacked through the tar and concrete.
Jackhammer was a better education than Umass, and I liked honest work better, too.

[uscra112]

Not to mention that this morning there have been 3 references on Fox Business and Newsmax that "Experts" are forecasting significant Brownouts and Blackouts to some/all the Grid this winter.

I'm reading that, too. There are actually I think seven grids in the USA, not one. They are linked, but no so that one going down kills them all. There's a very interesting book out called Shorting the Grid by Meredith Angwin that goes into how federally mandated changes to grid management and regulation have made them all super-vulnerable. She knows what she's writing about, having been deeply involved in grid management herself for many years. It's a severe indictment of how "climate change" scammers have bulldozed ignorant legislators into making bad law for the benefit of the failing "green energy" industry.

[tommag]

If we would loose power for an extended time, I still have a dug well I can draw water, a coal/wood stove in my shop and one I can hook up on the porch. An interesting item I inherited from a neighbor is a galvanized tub with a chimney and flu. It's factory made with instructions on the side. From what I remember it uses used motor oil as fuel. He bought it decades ago to heat his garage. It's hard to describe without photos, it's like a wash tub with a cover and chimney, it's about six feet high when assembled. I don't know as I would use it in a non-vented area though.

A/C-I can't sleep without it in the summer!

That sounds like the oil stoves known as orchard heaters. During frost conditions many would be set up in citrus orchards.

[Mk42gunner]

Whom did you have to piss off to get stationed on Adak?

My detailer. Adak wasn't so bad, except for all the CT's that thought the Navy revolved around them. Good training for raising my daughter a few years later.

The bad part was that I got sent to Japan immediately after Adak, to a ship that was going to Cambodia and Thailand.

Alaska in October to the tropics three weeks later. Uniform of the day was UDT shorts and a t shirt. Can you say sunburn?

Robert

[Ithaca Gunner]

That sounds like the oil stoves known as orchard heaters. During frost conditions many would be set up in citrus orchards.

That makes perfect sense.

[MUSTANG]

This is the Oil Fired Stove's we used in the USMC for GP Tents Large - Back When. Currently they sell at Army Navy Surplus stores for about $300.00 with the Oil Fuel Regulator and about 12 Feet of Stove Pipe.


319809

[MT Gianni]

I am sorry I retired as that relight will run into the millions of $$$. Avista will bring in help from neighboring utilities.

If the line had 800 PSI it wasn't held together by rust. When you call for a locate you agree to expose the crossing for 3 feet either side of the marks to a depth of which you plan to excavate, also federal specs. From the pictures it looks like that didn't happen. It was farmed this year and the weight of the equipment didn't disturb it then, my guess is it may not be where it was marked but it was hit.

For the uninitiated, pipe doesn't have to be really thick to hold a lot of pressure, just perfectly round. I know of an old line that ran 900 psi that was 0.188" wall. Really glad I wasn't welding that one hot.
If the line was not where it was marked, the locator would bear the cost. In any case the lawyers will make their boat payments.

[MaryB]

When they redid the water and sewer in my town the gas company also replaced all the gas lines. Mine was marked as 4' into the street, it was 8' away and running under where the sidewalk used to be(that cracked and broke up years ago, instead of fix it the city just tore it up)...

The line they pulled up was BAD, crumbled when touched!

[uscra112]

Over the past 10 years or so my area has been laced with "gathering lines" - pipes from the new gas wells to the processing station they built on a hilltop about a mile south from me. These are steel - I saw them going in. ~4 inches diameter. Low pressure, maybe. Hopefully the wells will have petered out and the lines blocked off before they rust. Thankfully none run across my property. Property owners who DO have lines were promised lease payments which are always late, if they are paid at all. About 3-4 years ago a weld failed on one (so they said). The gas caught and burned a nearby house to the ground. Nobody injured, thank God. /rant

[MT Gianni]

Pipelines are required to have anti corrosion systems in place and have since the 70's, It got really strict about 25 years ago with an explosion in NM. The most common method is anodes. You build a 40' hole and fill it with railroad rails. Connect them all and put a voltage on it that ensures they are charged with a negative voltage. That is connected to steel pipe and a -0.085 or larger number negative voltage is maintained. Done properly it attracts a small amount of minerals from the ground rather than loosing them.

National Fuel Gas Code defines low pressure as less than one lb.

[uscra112]

That's encouraging, for all this new pipeline construction around here. We're deep into the Marcellus Shale gas field.

[technojock]

I keep a few ceramic propane heaters around for an emergency. Lately I'm thinking about getting a diesel powered heater. The run under $150 at Amazon... I saw a YouTube review of one and the sound pretty good.

[Idaho45guy]

Got my gas restored and stove re-lit a few minutes ago! Incredible response time! House never got below 67 degrees.

[uscra112]

Got my gas restored and stove re-lit a few minutes ago! Incredible response time! House never got below 67 degrees.

At this point I gotta republish this blog comment, in admiration for the crews that accomplished that feat so quickly: There's a thin veneer of hyper-competent professionals who keep the lights on and the water drinkable. Replace them with the incompetent and the water turns brown and the lights go out. Imagine this happening in Venezuela where the socialists drove all those guys into exile.

[.429&H110]

North shore of Boston is a rolling sandy swamp. Along the tidemarshes the bare steel pipe
was long ago buried in briney mud so it rotted to swiss cheese.

Witchcraft Heights, Salem Ma (who would want to live on Gallows Tree Road?)
is a posh development built on a leather dump, ate the tar off valves,
the shoe factories dumped scraps there for two hundred years, the ground was stinky and very acidic.
Had a couple of near-misses working there the place should be on the X-Files. Go gas go boom.

Coated steel is supposed to be good for a long time, unless you scratch the coating.
Cathodic protection doesn't work if it is shorted out.
Hooray for plastic pipe!

[uscra112]

Maybe that's why the fuel oil companies in Boston used to stress the safety of oil heat.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Great story about a gas line, if you would like:

I worked in a salvage yard for a few summers and when home on holiday breaks from college. Knew the guy from buying parts for my Oldsmobile 442s, and sold a few other parts I picked up cheap as well (Buick GS hood, Tornado fender, misc.).
Anywho, got to know him pretty well, and he liked me. I got to cut up stuff for the crusher - 1,000 - 10,000 gallon fuel storage tanks, railway tank car, Road Grader, Magnesium Foundry casting pots, Milling machines, Light poles for short steel, etc. Cleaned the center hole on the torch w/ a cleaning rod about the size of a coat hanger.

So, one day we were working over a pile of misc. "stuff", and he said 'did I ever tell you about one of the first scrap jobs I took on?'
Me: Nope.
Boss: 'So, I got a call from a guy's widow - had a large barn full of metal she wanted cleaned out. Went over, took a look, asked if there were any utilities hooked up. The answer was "No". Thought "I'll wrap a chain in here, hook up the truck, and pull it out in the open". Know what happened?'
Me: No, What?
Boss: 'Pulled a whole pile of stuff out, heard a hissing noise. Got out of the truck, smelled gas. Ran to the house, said call the gas company, there is a ruptured line.' 'Know what happened next?'
Me: No
Boss: 'Gas provider argued and said there was no gas line, but came. Know what they found?'
Me: No
Boss: 'Guy was a master plumber - dug a trench and tapped into a major gas transmission pipeline at full pressure and heated his barn for free for 20+ years. I ripped out the connections on the end when I pulled that pile out of the barn.'

No kidding. Guy was honest, and that's what he said.
His story was from ~ 50 years ago now. I worked for him 30 years ago, and he had been running the yard for about 20 years.
Funny how people don't care about the consequences.

[MT Gianni]

Turnip eater, I have seen 45 psi connections made with garden hoses. It is crazy what some will do.

[.429&H110]

Lots of 1000 gallon propane tanks were temporarily hooked up with air hose.
Temporary can be a long time.

[Idaho45guy]

Great story about a gas line, if you would like:

I worked in a salvage yard for a few summers and when home on holiday breaks from college. Knew the guy from buying parts for my Oldsmobile 442s, and sold a few other parts I picked up cheap as well (Buick GS hood, Tornado fender, misc.).
Anywho, got to know him pretty well, and he liked me. I got to cut up stuff for the crusher - 1,000 - 10,000 gallon fuel storage tanks, railway tank car, Road Grader, Magnesium Foundry casting pots, Milling machines, Light poles for short steel, etc. Cleaned the center hole on the torch w/ a cleaning rod about the size of a coat hanger.

So, one day we were working over a pile of misc. "stuff", and he said 'did I ever tell you about one of the first scrap jobs I took on?'
Me: Nope.
Boss: 'So, I got a call from a guy's widow - had a large barn full of metal she wanted cleaned out. Went over, took a look, asked if there were any utilities hooked up. The answer was "No". Thought "I'll wrap a chain in here, hook up the truck, and pull it out in the open". Know what happened?'
Me: No, What?
Boss: 'Pulled a whole pile of stuff out, heard a hissing noise. Got out of the truck, smelled gas. Ran to the house, said call the gas company, there is a ruptured line.' 'Know what happened next?'
Me: No
Boss: 'Gas provider argued and said there was no gas line, but came. Know what they found?'
Me: No
Boss: 'Guy was a master plumber - dug a trench and tapped into a major gas transmission pipeline at full pressure and heated his barn for free for 20+ years. I ripped out the connections on the end when I pulled that pile out of the barn.'

No kidding. Guy was honest, and that's what he said.
His story was from ~ 50 years ago now. I worked for him 30 years ago, and he had been running the yard for about 20 years.
Funny how people don't care about the consequences.

Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed it!