Need info for flintlock roundball mold

[Pb&j]

A very skilled reloading friend reached out to me knowing I cast boolits. His friend has an old flintlock to which he only has 4 roundball left and would like to see if I can cast some. I know of the flintlock mechanics but not much about calibers. I asked what size ball and what grain this thing shoots and the math seems to be fuzzy from what his caliper or micrometer gave him from a roundball his friend dropped off. The ball he currently shoots is measuring .541 with a grain weight of 237 grains. Some homework I've done proves that different thickness patches can be involved making me believe caliber/mold size can differ greatly. Would any of you wonderful folks know of any direction I should turn. Would really love to help another avid shooter out if possible. If this post belongs in a different thread, surely please place it accordingly. Thank you for any intel.

Brad

[firefly1957]

I like to shoot a tight patch on a round ball others like a ball that easily goes down the bore . The ideal way to determine ball size is the actual bore diameter of the gun then you add a cloth patch to fill the groove depth . nothing is this world works ideally though . You really need to check the rifling twist also if it is 1-48 or slower round ball works well many flintlocks are 1-66 which is good for round ball . Lee has a decent mold and sells both .530 and .535 molds Titian reloading has them for $32.49 for a double cavity https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-dc-mold-535-ball/ Single cavity would be same price .
Next step is to get right cloth thickness you want a cloth that is all cotton even linen but not synthetic as it melts from the heat of the powder and can foul the bore. That said when I first started shooting round ball I used some old jeans that were 60% Rayon 40% cotton without a issue . When A ball is short started it should take the rifling leaving an imprint of the cloth on the ball Heavy imprint at lands and light imprint where the grooves are . Pure lead is best I did accidently cast some .562" balls for my .58 caliber of wheel weight alloy they shot okay with flyers from the patch tearing while loading the balls .
Cloth should also have a weave one direction then the other direction if he is buying precut patches then that is mute point they are right cloth . Lube I like a bit of olive oil some people wet the patch with spit the lube does a couple things moisturizing the fouling from the previous shot is one thing a reason I like oil is it stops most patch smoldering and possible fires . As spit dries and takes on some Potassium nitrate from the powder it can start a fire by letting the patch smolder on the ground after a shot .

[Rockindaddy]

The old rule of thumb is: one patch thickness less bore diameter. Hole gauges work the best for measuring the bore. Next best thing is fractional drills or letter drills slid into the barrel to determine the diameter. Cotton cloth patches work best. Feather bed ticking or un bleached muslin without sizing works well. Patches .010 to .015 in thickness; smaller bore/thinner patches, larger bore/thicker patches. Target shooting only requires a spit patch. Murphy's Oil Soap and water is a good substitute for a spit patch. Your patch does two things. The patch holds and seals the ball as it travels down the bore. The wet patch solves the powder residue which is Potassium Nitrite and carbon. For hunting an oil lube that solves the powder residue is better. Bore Butter or Crisco on the patch works ok.

[36g]

A question to ask is - is it a musket (smooth bore) or a rifled barrel? If a musket then the balls can vary widely depending on if using a patch, paper cartridge as wadding, or tow. A rifled bore would be more finicky to match patch thickness to ball diameter.

[indian joe]

A question to ask is - is it a musket (smooth bore) or a rifled barrel? If a musket then the balls can vary widely depending on if using a patch, paper cartridge as wadding, or tow. A rifled bore would be more finicky to match patch thickness to ball diameter.


This first!!!!!


then .......your math (on the one old ball left) checks out spot on I reckon ....541 is a bit of an odd size - maybe get a LEE 535 mold and shim between the blocks 5 or 6 thou shim steel will do it - doesnt need to fit the cavity neat just jold the blocks apart some so the ball "grows" .

I tumble my round ball in a canvas sack with a squirt of powdered graphite - rumble the bag around for ten minutes or so gets rid of the sprue marks and will even them up .

OR ----you might get the job done by just using thicker patch material on the smaller ball (heavy denium or such)

[Good Cheer]

.541?
I'd definitely try .535 whether it's rifled or smooth bore.

[firefly1957]

Indian Joe getting rid of the sprue is not always a good thing by keeping the sprue up it aids in loading consistency.

At my last club we got a mess of swaged balls donated some shot poorly a member with access to a granite inspection table that was smooth and level spent time with them and found they all had a light side when they would stop moving. Cutting them up he found air voids with no way of knowing where they were without carefully testing and marking . The sprue gives us a good reference point to load the same each time and it is also a likely place for any void .

If you go with the .535 mold it would be far better to use a thicker patch then beagle the mold . For my .58 I use denim from women's or kid's Jeans I forget the thickness but use a rubber hammer to short start the ball before cutting the oiled patch . If you look close at denim there are two normal types one thinner and a thread goes one way then the other the thicker material has several threads one way then one crossing it so it is weaker for patching a ball .

You can test with a not cut material short starting a ball then pulling on the material to remove ball allowing you to see how well the fit is .

[WRideout]

Just a thought but you could go on the bullet exchange subforum, and ask for round balls of different diameters before you order a mold.

Wayne

[Pb&j]

Thank you all so much for the information and leading me to questions I did not know to ask. Looks like I may need to contact the gun owner directly to see where he had been getting his balls in the first place. It doesn't seem like rocket science but I'm not one to blindly go forward without doing some real info searching. You folks have me going in a great direction for starters and it's very appreciated. This site is such a special place to enjoy. Enjoy the shooting before the white stuff flies.

[scattershot]

.541 is kinda an oddball size. Most balls for a .54 caliber rifle are .530 or .535. I’m sure someone could make a custom mold for you, but it would be pretty pricy. Could you find out what kind of rifle he has? A .535 ball with a fairly thick patch may do the trick. Rifle? Smoothbore? Maybe an antique that has been refreshed?

It would be helpful,if you could find all that out, and maybe re-measure the ball.

I could probably send you a few .535 balls to try. Shoot me a PM.

[Pb&j]

.541 is kinda an oddball size. Most balls for a .54 caliber rifle are .530 or .535. I’m sure someone could make a custom mold for you, but it would be pretty pricy. Could you find out what kind of rifle he has? A .535 ball with a fairly thick patch may do the trick. Rifle? Smoothbore? Maybe an antique that has been refreshed?

Was told originally it was a 60 cal and not being in the blackpowder world, I knew not what other questions to even begin to ask. This is now beginning to get fun as it is a bit of historical curiosity and trying to help all while learning something I didn't know I might be interested in. I'll keep you kids informed as the numbers I'm given per reloading buddy and what he has given me make things look odd as per the projectile. Starting to wonder if the gun owner/shooter isn't shooting the proper ball. The question list is being formed. I was given a chance to shoot a flint lock back when in my teens, 50 now. Being a lefty, that flash scared the hell out of me. Never sat behind it nor pulled the trigger.

[indian joe]

Indian Joe getting rid of the sprue is not always a good thing by keeping the sprue up it aids in loading consistency.

too much of a fiddle on the line for me !

At my last club we got a mess of swaged balls donated some shot poorly a member with access to a granite inspection table that was smooth and level spent time with them and found they all had a light side when they would stop moving. Cutting them up he found air voids with no way of knowing where they were without carefully testing and marking .

How would you get air voids in swaged ball ? poor cast stuff yes .....but swaged??????
The swaged ball I have shot (a decent amount of it over the years) is Hornady or Aussie made Taipan (no longer available) - and it was all prime quality

The sprue gives us a good reference point to load the same each time and it is also a likely place for any void .

ahhg I use mostly LEE molds (and one Pedersoli) no sprue to speak of - a bit of a tumble in the graphite bag and the mark is gone ---weigh em !!! for serious target work a little digital jewelery scale is quick and easy - soon tell ya if there any air pockets or inconsistent sizing

If you go with the .535 mold it would be far better to use a thicker patch then beagle the mold .
Thats debateable! --- the success of a thicker patch will depend on depth of your rifling - but its the easiest place to go so start there for sure

For my .58 I use denim from women's or kid's Jeans I forget the thickness but use a rubber hammer to short start the ball before cutting the oiled patch . If you look close at denim there are two normal types one thinner and a thread goes one way then the other the thicker material has several threads one way then one crossing it so it is weaker for patching a ball .

[COLOR="#0000FF"]Using any used (worn) clothing for patching is a crap shoot because any worn garment will vary in thickness due to wear - and also loses much of its strength in the laundering process --- buy a piece of new cloth !!!! [/C
You can test with a not cut material short starting a ball then pulling on the material to remove ball allowing you to see how well the fit is .


......

[725]

There is a way to "slug" your flintlock. Sounds funny but I have done this many times. First find a weighted rod that slips into the barrel ('bout 1 1/2 foot long). Brass is best. Drop it into the barrel. Once the rod is within the barrel, run an oily patch in & out to coat the barrel. With the rod still in the barrel, hammer a lead slug into the barrel and push it in a couple inches. Then invert the gun and bounce the weighted rod within up & down to eject the formed slug. Voila - when it falls out, you have a slug that can be properly measured and thereafter your decision on what ball mold to use can be made.

[firefly1957]

Okay Indian Joe how are we able to reply with a reply with quote like you did?

Quote Originally Posted by firefly1957 View Post
Indian Joe getting rid of the sprue is not always a good thing by keeping the sprue up it aids in loading consistency.

too much of a fiddle on the line for me !

At my last club we got a mess of swaged balls donated some shot poorly a member with access to a granite inspection table that was smooth and level spent time with them and found they all had a light side when they would stop moving. Cutting them up he found air voids with no way of knowing where they were without carefully testing and marking .

How would you get air voids in swaged ball ? poor cast stuff yes .....but swaged?????? I wondered the same but did see the voids in cut balls .
The swaged ball I have shot (a decent amount of it over the years) is Hornady or Aussie made Taipan (no longer available) - and it was all prime quality
Some of them were indeed from Hornady others I think where Speer they balls were often in a blister pack rather then a box.

The sprue gives us a good reference point to load the same each time and it is also a likely place for any void .

ahhg I use mostly LEE molds (and one Pedersoli) no sprue to speak of - a bit of a tumble in the graphite bag and the mark is gone ---weigh em !!! for serious target work a little digital jewelery scale is quick and easy - soon tell ya if there any air pockets or inconsistent sizing
I have mostly Lee molds and even that little flat can be seen and pointed up for consistent shooting

If you go with the .535 mold it would be far better to use a thicker patch then beagle the mold .
Thats debateable! --- the success of a thicker patch will depend on depth of your rifling - but its the easiest place to go so start there for sure

For my .58 I use denim from women's or kid's Jeans I forget the thickness but use a rubber hammer to short start the ball before cutting the oiled patch . If you look close at denim there are two normal types one thinner and a thread goes one way then the other the thicker material has several threads one way then one crossing it so it is weaker for patching a ball .

Using any used (worn) clothing for patching is a crap shoot because any worn garment will vary in thickness due to wear - and also loses much of its strength in the laundering process --- buy a piece of new cloth !!!! [/C
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Yes there are parts of the cloth that can be useless but women and kids at least in my house toss cloths before they are worn much , unlike my cloths that fall apart before I toss them! I have made Char out of my old jeans and flannel shirts.
You can test with a not cut material short starting a ball then pulling on the material to remove ball allowing you to see how well the fit is .

[Pb&j]

725, now THAT is the biggest bullet puller I've ever heard of. :lol: I love how necessity breeds so much imagination.

[indian joe]

Okay Indian Joe how are we able to reply with a reply with quote like you did?

ITS A TRICK!!! the system wont take the message - unless something is typed at the bottom after the body of the others message --see the 6 little dots in bottom lh corner ? ......

Quote Originally Posted by firefly1957 View Post
Indian Joe getting rid of the sprue is not always a good thing by keeping the sprue up it aids in loading consistency.

too much of a fiddle on the line for me !

At my last club we got a mess of swaged balls donated some shot poorly a member with access to a granite inspection table that was smooth and level spent time with them and found they all had a light side when they would stop moving. Cutting them up he found air voids with no way of knowing where they were without carefully testing and marking .

How would you get air voids in swaged ball ? poor cast stuff yes .....but swaged?????? I wondered the same but did see the voids in cut balls .
The swaged ball I have shot (a decent amount of it over the years) is Hornady or Aussie made Taipan (no longer available) - and it was all prime quality
Some of them were indeed from Hornady others I think where Speer they balls were often in a blister pack rather then a box.

The sprue gives us a good reference point to load the same each time and it is also a likely place for any void .

ahhg I use mostly LEE molds (and one Pedersoli) no sprue to speak of - a bit of a tumble in the graphite bag and the mark is gone ---weigh em !!! for serious target work a little digital jewelery scale is quick and easy - soon tell ya if there any air pockets or inconsistent sizing
I have mostly Lee molds and even that little flat can be seen and pointed up for consistent shooting

If you go with the .535 mold it would be far better to use a thicker patch then beagle the mold .
Thats debateable! --- the success of a thicker patch will depend on depth of your rifling - but its the easiest place to go so start there for sure

For my .58 I use denim from women's or kid's Jeans I forget the thickness but use a rubber hammer to short start the ball before cutting the oiled patch . If you look close at denim there are two normal types one thinner and a thread goes one way then the other the thicker material has several threads one way then one crossing it so it is weaker for patching a ball .

Using any used (worn) clothing for patching is a crap shoot because any worn garment will vary in thickness due to wear - and also loses much of its strength in the laundering process --- buy a piece of new cloth !!!! [/C
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Yes there are parts of the cloth that can be useless but women and kids at least in my house toss cloths before they are worn much , unlike my cloths that fall apart before I toss them! I have made Char out of my old jeans and flannel shirts.
You can test with a not cut material short starting a ball then pulling on the material to remove ball allowing you to see how well the fit is .

......

[725]

Pb&j ~ I'd love to take credit for the idea but it came from somebody else. Can't remember who, but it's a winner!

[firefly1957]

Indian Joe I see that but the quote does not show on my laptop until I post so I can not type in it unless I just copy and paste then it is not in the quote box.

[AZ Muzzleloaders]

I think the important question is, what caliber is the barrel?