An Alternative to the 30 Badger / 30 Reece

[jdgabbard]

Anyone who has hung around this forum long enough will be familiar with the 30 Badger/30 Reece. These are really cool wildcats that have a lot in common with the 30 Tokarov, but with several advantages where it comes to shooting heavier bullets. Namely the longer neck of the 30 Badger which allows for a larger selection of boolits. I've personally wanted one for nearly a decade. But I've never quite had the extra cash or the local talent for having a barrel made. A real shame, since I would really like to have a rifle chambered in this cartridge.

Then the other day while surfing around the web looking at Shotgun Chamber Adapters I see that Chaszel is offering 18" chamber adatpers for the 20ga in 7.62x25 (Also reportedly has some chambered in 12ga). Being these are 18" adapters with about 17" of rifling (1/12 Twist) this seems like a nice stop-gap where it concerns shooting a similar cartridge without having to worry about expensive gunsmithing. I immediately ordered one of these adapters, and I'm expecting it to come in the mail today. I'll still need to go buy a 20ga to shoot this in. Of the three shotguns I own not a single one is in 20ga. But that said, there appear to be some budget priced options out there that appear to be reasonably strong - strong enough to handle the 30 Tok. Since H&R/NEF shotguns and handi-rifles have gone through the roof price wise this might be a better option... I remember when you couldn't hardly give those things away, with a gun store locally having them priced as low as $50 at one point.

While it would still be nice to eventually have a rifle chambered in 30 Badger/30 Reece, the Tok in an 18" barrel is still capable of some interesting performance. GRT reports that with an 18" barrel it's possible to drive a 95gr Boolit close to 1800fps, or a 120gr 311359 to around 1400fps. Though, I am not familiar with the alloy used, 1026 Steel. Which appears to be less durable than 4140. I can't say what type of barrel life one could expect from one of these adapters. Maybe someone here can chime in on the 1026 Steel...

But for those who have wanted a rifle in 30 Badger, this isn't the same thing, but it's a close alternative. And might be the right choice if you only prefer lightweight boolits. I imagine it's still going to be a fun plinking option either way. As I mentioned before the 30 Tok itself is pretty impressive for a pistol round.

Also, concerning the options for shotguns mentioned above, does anyone have any experience with the cheap break top shotguns available these days? They mostly appear to be Turkish in origin. I'm not sure I trust a shotgun from Turkey when we're talking 40K PSI.... What is the consensus?

[Texas by God]

My Turkish single shots are aluminum frame with steel bushings for the case head. I wouldn’t use a high pressure cartridge in them- the 7.62x25 Tokarevs might be ok.
Be sure that the shotgun that you choose has a small diameter firing pin like the H&R Topper/ NEF Pardner have.
Jedman knows more than Yoda on this subject; hopefully he’ll chime in.
One of the guns I’m hunting with this week is a Topper 12 gauge permanently converted to 44-40 WCF. It is a Fun Gun.


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[jdgabbard]

My Turkish single shots are aluminum frame with steel bushings for the case head. I wouldn’t use a high pressure cartridge in them- the 7.62x25 Tokarevs might be ok.
Be sure that the shotgun that you choose has a small diameter firing pin like the H&R Topper/ NEF Pardner have.
Jedman knows more than Yoda on this subject; hopefully he’ll chime in.
One of the guns I’m hunting with this week is a Topper 12 gauge permanently converted to 44-40 WCF. It is a Fun Gun.


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That’s good information. Thank you for chiming in. I had considered the Charles Daly 101, primarily because it doesn’t have an exposed hammer and firing pin (lessening the chance that it might turn into a projectile in the event of a ruptured primer). But this is also a Turkish gun from what I can tell.

I had also looked at the Stevens/Savage 301/M301. These are copies of the NEF SB1 from what I can tell. But made in China….

So we do know that NEF Toppers and Pardoner have small diameter Firing Pins? Is this universal across the various calibers?


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[M-Tecs]

1026 steel is one step up from 1018 mild steel.

https://blog.thepipingmart.com/metals/1026-steel-vs-1018-whats-the-difference/

I haven't checked but die cost can be an issue for some of the oddball stuff. 7.62x25mm Tokarev are cheap

With the 30-357 you can use low cost 300 BO dies.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/09/interesting-300-aac-blk-357-wildcat/

[jdgabbard]

1026 steel is one step up from 1018 mild steel.

https://blog.thepipingmart.com/metals/1026-steel-vs-1018-whats-the-difference/

I haven't checked but die cost can be an issue for some of these.

With the 30-357 you can use low cost 300 BO dies.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/09/interesting-300-aac-blk-357-wildcat/

I haven't compared the those two steels, but depending on the actual numbers I wouldn't be too surprised. When I compared against 4140 it looked to be quite different. But the strengths seemed to be better than mild steels. I don't see this being a forever option. But depending on how it holds up to cast loads it still seems like a viable option. Now that I look at it though, the listing doesn't state 1026. His website does reference 1026 on a few pages, but not on the 20ga 7.62x25 page. He lists it as Heavy Duty Steel Construction, which isn't very descriptive. On a few other pages for the barrel blanks he lists 4140. So to settle the matter I just sent him a message asking him point blank what alloy is used in THIS adapter. I'll report back when he responds.

[jdgabbard]

I received a response from Chad over at Chaszel.


We make most of the adapters from 1026. The 7.62x25 is all 1026

-Chad

That said, I did do some reading up on 1026. 1026 is a slight step up from 1018, but nowhere near 4140 in harness or fatigue strength. So with that in mind, these adapters do sound like they would eventually wear out. So middle of the road loads would probably be preferable.

[MT Gianni]

The accuracy doesn't seem to be there with the break action shotguns as it is with a Contender or Handi. If what you want is a 25 yard gun it might be acceptable.

[popper]

CVA single shot reamed for the badger?

[Larry Gibson]

I would have preferred they produce more 30 Carbine inserts in lieu of 7.62x25s. I've been watching their sight as I want a 20 ga insert in 30 Carbine for my Savage 24V.

[jdgabbard]

I would have preferred they produce more 30 Carbine inserts in lieu of 7.62x25s. I've been watching their sight as I want a 20 ga insert in 30 Carbine for my Savage 24V.

Larry, shoot him an email. As I understand it, a lot of his stock isn’t listed on the website.


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[Fitz]

If you are familiar with the modern sporting rifle, wilson combat offers a barrel chambered in 300 Hamr it shoots cast up to a 180gr bullet very accurately

[jdgabbard]

CVA single shot reamed for the badger?

I think there has been one or two that have build 30 Badgers on the CVA Scout. Unless you already own one though it may defeat one of the purposes. As the original idea was a cheap small cartridge built on a cheap shotgun/handi-rifle frame.


The accuracy doesn't seem to be there with the break action shotguns as it is with a Contender or Handi. If what you want is a 25 yard gun it might be acceptable.

That may be the case with those short shotgun inserts. But I've shot other longer inserts that were quite a bit more than a 25yd rifle. This one is an 18" barrel, and uses o-rings to stabilize itself. Sure it's not going to be a tack driver. But it'll do substantially better than you're suggesting with this. And quite a few others have built dedicated break action designs that are very accurate.


If you are familiar with the modern sporting rifle, wilson combat offers a barrel chambered in 300 Hamr it shoots cast up to a 180gr bullet very accurately

Yeah, I'm familiar with the 300 Hamr. It's still a far more potent round than the 30 Badger/Reece or 30 Tok. Though, it is easy enough to put an upper together for a quick swap. I guess one of the alluring aspects of the 30 Badger or 30 Tok single shots is the fact that it is a very minimal round for a rifle round, and is by it's nature in a single shot slowing down the round count. I can't help but think back to when I was a kid with only a single shot 22 rifle thinking about how much fun I had taking my time and working on my marksmanship. Sure my eyes are not what they were 30 years ago....

[technojock]

Why bother where there are plenty of good options for a .300 Blackout? I load my .300 Blackout Handi rifle with an 87g boolit with .3g of Red Dot to about 1000 FPS. It's only slightly louder than a .22 rim fire. I have loaded rounds with this boolit down to 2g of Red Dot without problems...

[dverna]

Why bother where there are plenty of good options for a .300 Blackout? I load my .300 Blackout Handi rifle with an 87g boolit with .3g of Red Dot to about 1000 FPS. It's only slightly louder than a .22 rim fire. I have loaded rounds with this boolit down to 2g of Red Dot without problems...

You make a good point.

I nearly went in for a .30 Badger about 10 years ago but the cost of doing it did make sense…at least for me. There were less costly ways to plink cheaply. Today, with primers in the $75/k+ area, the economics are even less attractive.

[jdgabbard]

The 300blk is a cool cartridge, but I don't see it as the do-all cartridge that many people do. In order to shoot heavy boolits a lot of times the twist on the barrel is so slow that it is a terrible performer for lighter boolits. Some of the barrels I've seen have had twists as low as 1/3. Of course this would be gun specific, and it's likely there are options with twists primarily dedicated to the 120-150gr range that could shoot 85-90gr boolits with decent accuracy out to 100yds. Building one is obviously cheaper; you really only need to put together an upper if you already have a AR. But like the 300 Hamr, the Badger/Reece or Tok still has a niche that it can fill for me.

[M-Tecs]

The really fast twist 3 twist you are referring to are for the 8.6 Blackout. For the 300 BO the longer slower subsonic heavier bullets require a 7 or 8 twist barrel with some going as fast as 5 twist. For lighter faster bullets some prefer the slower 10 or 12 twist barrels.

[Texas by God]

This is only my opinion after owning one for years; the .300 BO with a 1-7” twist(normal) is a great jacketed bullet round, not so good for supersonic cast- which is where I wanted to operate.
Making .30 Reese/Badger brass from .38/.357 brass would seem easier than the .300 from .223 procedure.


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[P Flados]

The quick and easy conversion of 38 SP brass was the thing that made the 30 Badger the most interesting to me.

I would think that the 7.62x25 insert could be converted to a Badger chamber (or something very close) without too much effort. The badger just has a longer neck and a rim.

Even if you stick with the 7.62x25 chamber, this would seem to be a fun thing to try.

[MT Gianni]

The quick and easy conversion of 38 SP brass was the thing that made the 30 Badger the most interesting to me.

I would think that the 7.62x25 insert could be converted to a Badger chamber (or something very close) without too much effort. The badger just has a longer neck and a rim.

Even if you stick with the 7.62x25 chamber, this would seem to be a fun thing to try.

Only disadvantage is accuracy out of a shotgun bbl. The adapters I shot out of contenders were ok but not the same.

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, it definitely wouldn't be as accurate as a dedicated barrel that was well made. But might not be completely terrible either. The big downside I see is the case dimensions near the base. The Tok is slightly larger than the 38spl if I'm not mistaken. But thats not a huge difference. Still might experience some split cases though with how thin 38spl is. Not so much of an issue as .223 brass that has been converted to 30 Tok.

[Jedman]

You might be surprised at what the accuracy might be. A late friend of mine built an insert barrel- chamber adapter from a 30-06 take off barrel. He shortened the chamber of the 30-06 to about 1.6”and made a wildcat round for it using 445 super magnum brass sized in a shortened 30-06 sizing die and just for a project ground the OD of the barrel with a cheap Harbor freight belt sander turned by hand until he could get it to fit in a 20 ga. Pardner SS shotgun. He did not use any O rings or glue to hold the adapter in he just figured the chamber end was bigger than the bore so where could it go ?
The shotgun barrel did have a scope base mounted on it and he had a 4 x scope to help with sighting it.

The funny thing was he wasn’t able to keep the barrel very round grinding it on a belt sander and he finally hammered it into the shotgun barrel and decided to shoot it like that. So what he had was an old junk 30-06 barrel with a cut down chamber, I did cut a rim recess for the rimmed brass on my lathe so the cartridge would chamber. The cartridge was shaped just like a short 30-06 with a rim formed on 445 SM brass and shooting 150 gr. jacketed bullets and to our surprise he was able to shoot several 1” 3 shot groups with it at 100 yards. It was really a project just to see if he could do it without a lathe and it did shoot well. There were noticeable gaps in the fit of the adapter to the shotguns bore but it was kinda beat in the final 1/16 th of an inch and was snug to where there wasn’t any movement.

As far as the 7.62 x 25 cartridge , I looked it up and it can be loaded as high as 36000 psi so I do believe you will need a small diameter firing pin on a break action gun or else the primer will flow back into the firing pin hole and cause the gun to be hard to break open after fired. Being a rimless case on the Tok I hope it not a PITA to extract the fired cases. Hope it’s a fun and accurate plinker for you.

Last fall about this time I seen Turkish made SS break action shotguns at a Dunhams sporting goods store near me that were on sale for $ 100. They had black synthetic stocks and matte finish on the metal but seemed to be well made . These were not the folding style shotguns which I see quite a few of online , I didn’t notice if they were hammerless or had a cocking hammer and don’t remember about the firing pin size ? I would have probably bought one for a rifle conversion project but I have 2 H&R ‘s and a Iver Johnson that I can use for such things already. I am always on the watch for good older break action shotguns a good prices and I know that they are hard to find without paying an arm and leg for but there are still some around .
Jedman

[jdgabbard]

UPDATE

I have been working on putting this project together over the last week or so. I picked up an H&R Topper 88 in 20ga with a 3” chamber and 26” full choke barrel, this particular gun is a 1982 AY serial number.

I loaded up some converted .223 brass with my custom 90gr RNFP boolit I had cut by Mountain Molds about 15yrs or so ago with 4.0gr of Unique and put a decent crimp. I also grabbed a box of some Tok brass I had loaded with the same boolit, but with 4.5gr of Red Dot. And it was off to the range this morning.

Initial observation was that this shoots centered, but high. The shotgun only has a bead sight, so I’m limited with my accuracy. But at 25yds in the indoor range I was still able to produce decent groups by placing the bead at the base of the target. Groups are below, these were shot unsupported, and as mentioned with only a bead sight. I think with rifle sights this is going to be a capable small game rifle that is very accurate.

Btw, GRT suggests the 4.0gr Unique load is trucking along at about 1390fps. I had zero leading with the unique load which is sized to .311”, and minor leading with the 4.5ft Red Dot load which was sized to .310” and lubed with Carnuba Red instead of PC’d like the Unique load.

4.0gr Unique
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231120/c62d276fea0b764649ba55698c6fd4d1.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231120/d9ee4f591ed1c70756134b52ac7f921d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231120/a9a4fedcb0a0e43fbaa31b85ffbed168.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231120/a5b6c10e7d9490460efe123f60008a4d.jpg


4.5yr Red Dot
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231120/9b7211a5a51b341905ea8be6f2547bc5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231120/b3a2df19711f749e073000a03beeacdb.jpg

[Texas by God]

That looks promising for sure.


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[jdgabbard]

That looks promising for sure.


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I was impressed. Now I need to figure out a solution for irons. I’ve been looking around, but I haven’t found anything yet that is going to work. The big issue is the barrel dimensions. Muzzle of the barrel is about .730” and the chamber end is 1.110”

Mossberg apparently makes some sights that might work, but the only place I can find them are at Midway, which is out of stock. Then I need to find a smith local who can install them. I’ll probably have him shorten the barrel to 20” at the same time…


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[technojock]

The 300blk is a cool cartridge, but I don't see it as the do-all cartridge that many people do. In order to shoot heavy boolits a lot of times the twist on the barrel is so slow that it is a terrible performer for lighter boolits. Some of the barrels I've seen have had twists as low as 1/3.

I don't think any .300 Blackout rifles have a twist rate any tighter than 1 in 7 inches. My Handirifle is 1 in 8 and shoots like a laser at pistol range. With the light load I shoot most of the time I rarely shoot over 30 yards and it's wicked at that distance...

With as many options I have in .30 caliber, I don't see the need to load the Blackout any hotter. If I need a .30 with more power, I have 5 other rifles I can grab out of my safe...

[popper]

I have 1:8 and 1:10 BO barrels, all shoot 110 half jacket, 110 vmax or 180gr cast fine. Generally use 145gr cast @ 2100 fps. Cheap and fun to shoot. Kids (12-18) at thanksgiving shoot really liked the CVA SS with 145 PB and WSF. Out of all the pistols and rifles they shot, liked the SS best.

[jaysouth]

I have a handi with a sleeve job in .30 Badger. Fun gun. But I have a CVA Scout 300 BO that can be a 30 badger with reduced loads. The CVA is a better and more accurate platform.

[popper]

I was interested yrs ago in a small 30 cal RB or similar. I got the BO scout as it was very cost effective - I already have BO AR. Looking at loadings, I can do subs with lite/heavy bullets, equal any 357 mag and/or better loads. Works for me.

[jdgabbard]

Thought I would provide an update to this. I finally took this out to the range after installing a set of sights that Texas By God sent me.

That is 5 shots with irons at 25yds with my custom Mountain Molds 90gr RNFP I had made about 15 years ago.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240322/2d193858876123721b2c44a2166ac6af.jpg

[dverna]

Man, that turned out to shoot well! Nice job!!

[jdgabbard]

Man, that turned out to shoot well! Nice job!!

Yeah, I didn't think I was hitting anything at all. Pulled the target and was pleasantly surprised. This one is definitely a keeper!

[Texas by God]

I’m glad that it’s working out so well!
The target looks good; where’s the pic of the Rifle formerly known as the Shotgun?


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[jdgabbard]

I’m glad that it’s working out so well!
The target looks good; where’s the pic of the Rifle formerly known as the Shotgun?


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As requested! Thanks again for the sights!


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240323/72de83a59902eb491e4555bdb6e1ab64.jpg

[Texas by God]

Spring Turkey season is right around the corner and that would work just fine on old Tom!


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[jdgabbard]

Spring Turkey season is right around the corner and that would work just fine on old Tom!


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I’ve never been much of a turkey hunter. But if the 7.62x25 didn’t work I suppose I could always pull out the adapter and use a 3” ;)

[Gtek]

Curious, how did you work the ejector/extractor issue out? I have several of these barrel/stub things going in the find the time get back to pile and thinking of which route to go. I have a factory NEF .223 bull and the extraction was and has been iffy at best, 300 BO still NIB and don't know how it goes. Pinging out shotgun shells is great but I am leaning into an extractor set up for Badger first.

[jdgabbard]

Curious, how did you work the ejector/extractor issue out? I have several of these barrel/stub things going in the find the time get back to pile and thinking of which route to go. I have a factory NEF .223 bull and the extraction was and has been iffy at best, 300 BO still NIB and don't know how it goes. Pinging out shotgun shells is great but I am leaning into an extractor set up for Badger first.

Well, that is something not quite solved. But not entirely necessary. There is no extractor for the barrel insert. The 7.62x25 round is loose enough to pull right out with the help of two little cutouts the manufacturer made. On calibers where an extractor truly is necessary you will probably have to come up with something.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240326/7c7f01c57c84cf5b3aeec5da21ea6517.jpg

[dverna]

Yeah, I didn't think I was hitting anything at all. Pulled the target and was pleasantly surprised. This one is definitely a keeper!

JD, when you started this thread I thought. "What a waste of time". Figured the contraption could never give decent accuracy...but I was wrong.

Not something I am interested in doing (have no need for it) but still learned from your journey.

[jdgabbard]

JD, when you started this thread I thought. "What a waste of time". Figured the contraption could never give decent accuracy...but I was wrong.

Not something I am interested in doing (have no need for it) but still learned from your journey.

Several felt that way I suppose. But I think there are some key differences between their own experiences and how I managed this.

First, I bought an 18” adapter. Not one of the short, and significantly cheaper, adapters. The longer adapter has a greater potential for developing accuracy over say a 2-4” barrel on the shorter adapters.

Second, this adapter has 3 grooves for o-rings at the end of the barrel. Using more than one significantly increases the rigidity of the adapter while in the barrel. This in my mind allows it to maintain it’s position much better, instead of moving around.

Third, I used a small jeweler’s file to remove the rim from the area where the extractor would interface with the adapter. I hand fitted this, so it is a tight fit, but allows the extractor to move freely. This allows the barre to index to a known position whenever it is removed and reinserted, enabling repeatable results.

The fourth, and greatest point in my mind, is the addition of the sights that were installed. Being able to have a front and back sight over just a bead greatly improves your chances of hitting what you’re aiming at. The fact that these are completely adjustable is a plus. They have a dovetailed front blade, and a rear notch adjustable for windage and elevation. Making fine tuning much easier.

All together, these points have appear to have produced what I would consider acceptable results, while still leaving me with the ability to use the 20ga shotgun barrel. Admittedly, I would still like to have a barrel made from a stub. But cat the moment I don’t see the cost benefit analysis making it worthwhile. A barrel or stub is going for about $100 these days. A barrel blank is another $50-100, and then the cost of having the work done, which I would guess to be in the neighborhood of approximately $300-400. I don’t have a lathe to do this myself. So it’s hard to justify $500ish for a barrel alone. If the cost were closer to $200-300 it might be a different story…

[Thom_44]

on that adapter, do you need to take it out of the barrel for cleaning? ANd if you remove the adapter, how exactly do you ensure that the adapter goes back into the barrel in a way that will leave the poi/poa the same?

[jdgabbard]

on that adapter, do you need to take it out of the barrel for cleaning? ANd if you remove the adapter, how exactly do you ensure that the adapter goes back into the barrel in a way that will leave the poi/poa the same?

You don't HAVE to, but you probably should remove it and clean the shotgun barrel as well as the rifle barrel. I have noticed it does have some carbon build up on the shotgun barrel just past the end of the rifled insert when shooting lighter loads that might not have the greatest efficiency in burning up all the powder (such as my 90gr bullet over 4gr of Unique load). But unless you plan on using the shotgun barrel, which I am not really interested in, I wouldn't normally clean that part every time. I don't even own any 20ga ammo, just 12ga and 16ga in this house.

As for indexing, see that last photo I posted showing the chamber area. You can see where I cut the rim away from the insert where the ejector is. This acts as an indexing pin for the insert. You might get a VERY slight POI shift from one cleaning to the next, but it's not going to be significant. At least not at the ranges I would be using this.

[Thom_44]

You don't HAVE to, but you probably should remove it and clean the shotgun barrel as well as the rifle barrel. I have noticed it does have some carbon build up on the shotgun barrel just past the end of the rifled insert when shooting lighter loads that might not have the greatest efficiency in burning up all the powder (such as my 90gr bullet over 4gr of Unique load). But unless you plan on using the shotgun barrel, which I am not really interested in, I wouldn't normally clean that part every time. I don't even own any 20ga ammo, just 12ga and 16ga in this house.

As for indexing, see that last photo I posted showing the chamber area. You can see where I cut the rim away from the insert where the ejector is. This acts as an indexing pin for the insert. You might get a VERY slight POI shift from one cleaning to the next, but it's not going to be significant. At least not at the ranges I would be using this.

Makes sense now. I have the luck that years ago I was gifted a rem 870 with an accessory scope mount, that when ever i took the barrel out for cleaning, the zero could wander in a roughly 19" circle. Got expensive after a while.

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, an 870 would definitely suffer from that, as you don't really have a way to index the insert. With a break over that is a little different as you have either an extractor or an ejector mounted to the barrel which you can index from.

[Jedman]

jd, I forgot about this thread until I ran a crossed it tonight. I think you thought this out very well and hit all the right buttons.
I only wish I could still shoot iron sights again and shoot groups like you posted with this combination.

I congratulate you on building an accurate very practical small capacity rifle on a budget without machine tools ! Very Cool ! ��
You just can’t buy these type of guns you have to make them. Good Job ��
Jedman

[jdgabbard]

jd, I forgot about this thread until I ran a crossed it tonight. I think you thought this out very well and hit all the right buttons.
I only wish I could still shoot iron sights again and shoot groups like you posted with this combination.

I congratulate you on building an accurate very practical small capacity rifle on a budget without machine tools ! Very Cool ! ��
You just can’t buy these type of guns you have to make them. Good Job ��
Jedman


Thanks, Jedman!

It was fun working this one out. And honestly I didn’t expect to get groups this good with it. But here I am with something I and others didn’t quite expect.

That said, I’ve got a junk H&R barrel I’m going to look at having stubbed before long. Then we’ll see what we can do with another combo!


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[Milky Duck]

I have a home made 45 calibre barrel chambered in 45/70 that lives in shotguns..... couple of points.
if you carry a short steel rod (I use the guts of one of them double ended screwdrivers that come in car toolkits...if you get a case that wont pop out just drop rod down barrel into case and they pop right out
cleaning it comes out and gets inside AND outside clean...
you have sights sorted..perfect was going to suggest finding taller bead LOL
if you find a bakail single barrel shotgun grab it quick..... they are built strongly and internal hammer is very safe to carry uncocked.
my accuracy wasnt flash but have some idea what I was doing wrong so looking forward to finding time this winter to revist it on paper.
as for pressure issues...I stick to bottom of 2nd tier top of first tier/trapdoor load levels...the case is flat back against the breech block so has nowhere to go...IF a round ever let go there is lots of surface area between barrel and block for excess gas to squeaze out,I deliberatly place the milled out slot to bottom so in event of failure hopefully it would exit via bottom of action.

[Barry54]

I’d like to see the mold and some boolets from it.

[jdgabbard]

I’d like to see the mold and some boolets from it.

Ask and you shall receiver...

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52949&d=1324589629

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53664&d=1345330631

[JohnForrest]

Good write up about an interesting set up. I've had a soft spot for Tok. for a while. An AR with a PPS-43 mag is a pretty fun little outfit.

[jdgabbard]

Good write up about an interesting set up. I've had a soft spot for Tok. for a while. An AR with a PPS-43 mag is a pretty fun little outfit.

Thanks! It's a awesome round, that is very much overlooked. Mostly because of a lack of commercial guns chambered in it. I've been wanting an AR chambered in it for some time. I found that PMAG inserts for 9mm will feed the x25 when you take out the rear spacers. So that is a reliable feeding device for the AR. I've been thinking of buying a 30 Luger barrel, and having it rechambered for the Tok, then simply building a blowback upper with a 9mm bolt, and probably a 308 buffer spring. Just haven't pulled the trigger....

I've seen some guys build blowback versions with a standard bolt carrier and a AR Bolt for the 5.45x39 which uses the same case head size as the Tok. Sadly, the economy of ammo has long since dried up, making it not only a fairly expensive endeavor to build, but an expensive gun to feed....relatively speaking...

[Barry54]

Ask and you shall receiver...

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52949&d=1324589629

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53664&d=1345330631

Thanks! Brass molds sure are good looking!

[JohnForrest]

Thanks! It's a awesome round, that is very much overlooked. Mostly because of a lack of commercial guns chambered in it. I've been wanting an AR chambered in it for some time. I found that PMAG inserts for 9mm will feed the x25 when you take out the rear spacers. So that is a reliable feeding device for the AR. I've been thinking of buying a 30 Luger barrel, and having it rechambered for the Tok, then simply building a blowback upper with a 9mm bolt, and probably a 308 buffer spring. Just haven't pulled the trigger....

I've seen some guys build blowback versions with a standard bolt carrier and a AR Bolt for the 5.45x39 which uses the same case head size as the Tok. Sadly, the economy of ammo has long since dried up, making it not only a fairly expensive endeavor to build, but an expensive gun to feed....relatively speaking...

I had Ron Williams build me a barrel, mag adaptor, and I think the bolt. It's a gas gun and super soft shooting. He has built a bunch of them and answered any questions I had along the way. PPS-43 mags are the "glacage" to this gun. They are 100% reliable so far and just fit in so perfectly. With a 4x scope it shoots more Prairie Dogs than any gun I own.

Ron also did a 357 sig set up for me too. It's a DI with Glock mag lower. If you look at his website, RMWXtrene, check out his subsonic round. A 10mm case shooting 338 bullets.