sticking cases on funnel driving me crazy

[dearslayer]

Iv mentioned this subject in another thread but it's driving me nuts. If i'm only loading a few rounds it's not as big a deal but when doing a few hundred rounds it's more than annoying. Loading 9mm cast boolits on my Dillon XL750 press and honestly i feel like i'm gonna break the shell plate the cases stick so bad. Releasing the funnel results in a pretty big THUMP each and every time. To clarify I'm not using the expander that came with the press. That expander allowed my boolits to fall over resulting it shaved boolits. My cast boolits measure 0.3565 after powder coating and sizing. A vey generous member here on cast boolits actually made me a new expander that works fantastic. Expanding just enough to insert the boolit it sits on somewhat of a shelf created by the expander that allows the boolit to stand up straight to prevent shaving the lead when seating.
Some have mentioned that the cases are too clean but I've tried less clean cases, Hornady one shot, imperial wax on the expander tip and still the same result. I"ve also polished the heck out of the expander and still cases stick so bad that it makes reloading very un enjoyable.
Anyone else have this same issue??I'm at wits end. Can someone provide a link to an expander that will work for these boolits? I'm sure I'm leaving out necessary info so please ask.

[kevin c]

I don’t know if my problem was the same as yours, but the sticking on withdrawing the expanders sounds mighty familiar. I was using a custom stepped/M style die in 9mm for cast coated slugs sized to 0.357”.

The standard Dillon expander I had was way undersized, barely making contact with the sized case interior wall circumferentially. Only the belling section had solid contact to make a good all around flare, but that seemed to be most of the brass to steel contact area. But there wasn’t the body expansion I wanted.

The custom die has much more contact of the shank of the die with the case interior, has a lot more brass stretching to do to get to ~.357”, and therefore a lot more friction despite cautious polishing and lube application. It is doable, but not including the mouth flare in the same station; that’s when I’d get the bad die withdrawal sticking and “thump”.

Given I’m using a SDB with only 4 stations and limited range of stroke adjustment, my inelegant workaround is two passes through the press. The first sizes, decaps, primes and does the body expansion with the custom die set into the case only to but not engaging the belling section. The second run powder charges through the standard Dillon expander which is set deep enough to engage the belling section and flare the case mouth (case body already expanded with no further expansion from the undersized factory die) and ends with bullet seating and mouth flare removal.

It’s significantly more time consuming this way, but there’s no straining to retract the expander or thumping that scatters powder. AAMOF, the press action is much smoother and I believe the ammo is much more consistent.

[imashooter2]

Are you wet tumbling?

[dearslayer]

Are you wet tumbling?

Yes I am wet tumbling but I cut back the amount of time that I do, to about an hour. I use steel pins and armour all with wax. I also tried to dry tumble the same cases with wax added to the media after wet tumbling and yet I still have the same issue.

[gunther]

Remember having read on this forum that, to load .357 bullets in the 9mm, you need to be using CCI Blazer or Federal brass. Because they have the thinest necks out there. .You might try a few and see if it makes a difference.

[dearslayer]

Remember having read on this forum that, to load .357 bullets in the 9mm, you need to be using CCI Blazer or Federal brass. Because they have the thinest necks out there. .You might try a few and see if it makes a difference.

I've tried about 5-6 different brands and they all stick bad.

[dearslayer]

Up to now I just tolerated the thumping but last night I did just over 200 rounds and it became apparent that I can't keep loading this way. It's also hard on the press I believe. Especially the shell plate. Not to mention that after a short time it just starts to drive me crazy and I want to walk away from it. Expensive press to not be able to enjoy it.

[Ford SD]

To load 9mm I am using 2 expanders

but I have to explain
During off season I sort / clean deprime brass and bag it / no primer

when Im ready to load I use 2 expanders one in the deprime spot ( or any empty one) and a powder through expander

you can try the rcbs expander / noe / expander or a or if you have a 38/357 mag expander ( i have a metal spacer in mine to lower it ) add it for 9mm and take it out for 38/357

my powder thrower has a expander on it and if it sticks I do not like it so I am doing it this way, it is a lot easier to adjust the first one than to adjust the one on the powder thrower

[oldsman]

this is a very common issue with the mr bullet feeder die ,even worse wet tumble brass. Did you try lubed brass
There is another powder funnel die made by Mighty Armory 9mm funnel flare for 49.95 , they claim it dos not stick . Go to there website and check it out , I have not tried this
I been finding a lot more crimp primer brass so I size and case prep 9mm now on a mark7 driven cp2000 and have it setup with a lyman m die and I just pickup a new redding case neck die m-type that has the TI coating to try out , havent used it yet . and I load on a different press and this solved my sticking issue , but this wont help you on a 750 . Other option is load in two setups , set up a tool head to prep brass then switch tool heads to load . I can recommend tool head die setups if you want to go this route

[Postell]

A 40+ years Dillon loader here.
It seems to me that every time in the last 20 years that this problem pops up, its always with loading after wet tumbling.
This problem never happened before wet tumbling came to the scene.

[kevin c]

Just throwing some maybe off the wall ideas:

If mouth flare isn’t needed (I do it for stability on placing bevel based slugs on the case prior to seating and to avoid shaving [see below]), then maybe expanding to a lesser depth in the case will have less friction on withdrawing?

I understand the sizer brings the case down to under mouth diameter all the way down, working from the outside, and the expander brings it back up, working from the inside. If, after sizing, the case mouth diameter is well under the end point, there’s that much more resistance for the expander to deal with. This is a permanent and potentially sizer ruining alteration, but if folks can do it to bullet sizers, maybe the case sizer can also be opened up? In the case of carbide, this means using diamond paste.

I agree that thinner brass helps. I’ve measured up to a thousandth difference, which translates into 0.002” less internal diameter after sizing. I regularly use Federal 9x19 brass with my slugs sized to 0.357” just for this reason.

If you do need to flare the case mouth, it might help to try the two pass method i and others described before.

There’s a small chance there’s an alignment or tolerance issue. Well made machines have working tolerances designed in, but if pushed to or beyond limits (including use of aftermarket parts), functionality can take a big hit. I found that my own custom die could only be used within certain depth of expansion settings or the press would bind (really tough to change on the SDB, but that’s another story). I also found that one reason I was getting bullets shaved is that I had a minor misalignment between the bullet on the case in the shell holder and the seating stem above it, not an issue with jacketed or with cast being seated in mouth flared cases, but a mess with minimally flared cases and lead.

[Carrier]

I just spray a little one shot case lube on cases and that does away with cases sticking on the ptx.

[G W Wade]

One forum discussed this a while ago. Their solution was to dry tumble with dirty media. Do not understand why this could be better that lube. Your mileage may vary. GW

[Carrier]

One forum discussed this a while ago. Their solution was to dry tumble with dirty media. Do not understand why this could be better that lube. Your mileage may vary. GW

One shot much easier and cleaner.

[dearslayer]

One shot much easier and cleaner.
Ive tried the One Shot as well and strangely it makes zero difference. I can't lessen the flare because I then get shaving of the boolit. I've tried all possibilities that I can think of other than buying a new expander. The only problem with that is because I live in Canada the shipping cost usually exceeds the value of the product. Last I checked NOE for an expander it would cost $48 USD to ship a $28 product. All told it would be over $100 CDN. !!

[country gent]

How smooth is the expander stem and working surfaces, To smooth can cause drag as can to rough. To smooth dosnt hold any lube and to rough the case grabs on it. Polish lines around the circumference of the expander will grab more than with the expander. Another is a little draft on the stem helps it to release. Just a .001 or so smaller at the end makes a big difference. Bass springs back and a straight sided expander it drags the full length a little taper an it releases easier.

[dearslayer]

How smooth is the expander stem and working surfaces, To smooth can cause drag as can to rough. To smooth dosnt hold any lube and to rough the case grabs on it. Polish lines around the circumference of the expander will grab more than with the expander. Another is a little draft on the stem helps it to release. Just a .001 or so smaller at the end makes a big difference. Bass springs back and a straight sided expander it drags the full length a little taper an it releases easier.


Ive polished it a few time because I thought smoother was better. I've even tried to sand a small taper at the end of the top step on the expander and still no luck. I may try ordering the expander from Mighty Armory to see if that will work. I'm out of options at this point.

[45_Colt]

A crazy thought, but maybe an airlock? That is, when the funnel & powder is inserted into the brass the air is pushed out.

Then upon withdrawing the funnel air needs to get back in. Otherwise a small vacuum is created. To test for this run a few pieces of brass minus the primer (with an empty powder measure). See if that makes a difference.

The other thought I had was work hardened brass. Anneal the tops of a few cases and run those through as test dummy rounds.

45Colt

[M-Tecs]

Iv mentioned this subject in another thread but it's driving me nuts. If i'm only loading a few rounds it's not as big a deal but when doing a few hundred rounds it's more than annoying. Loading 9mm cast boolits on my Dillon XL750 press and honestly i feel like i'm gonna break the shell plate the cases stick so bad. Releasing the funnel results in a pretty big THUMP each and every time. To clarify I'm not using the expander that came with the press. That expander allowed my boolits to fall over resulting it shaved boolits. My cast boolits measure 0.3565 after powder coating and sizing. A vey generous member here on cast boolits actually made me a new expander that works fantastic. Expanding just enough to insert the boolit it sits on somewhat of a shelf created by the expander that allows the boolit to stand up straight to prevent shaving the lead when seating.
Some have mentioned that the cases are too clean but I've tried less clean cases, Hornady one shot, imperial wax on the expander tip and still the same result. I"ve also polished the heck out of the expander and still cases stick so bad that it makes reloading very un enjoyable.
Anyone else have this same issue??I'm at wits end. Can someone provide a link to an expander that will work for these boolits? I'm sure I'm leaving out necessary info so please ask.

Did the Dillon powder funnel expander have the same issues? Are you using a bullet feeder?

[dearslayer]

Did the Dillon powder funnel expander have the same issues? Are you using a bullet feeder?

Yes it did. It also allowed the boolit to lean over which made seating difficult and shaving of the lead. No I'm not using a bullet feeder.

[uscra112]

The fact that dirty media helps suggests spraying with Lock-Ease or some other graphite or moly-containing formula.

[M-Tecs]

Yes it did. It also allowed the boolit to lean over which made seating difficult and shaving of the lead. No I'm not using a bullet feeder.

Don't take this as any type of criticism but something just isn't adding up. I first purchased a Dillon 450 in the mid 80's. When the 550's came out I purchased two. The 450 and the 550's were sold to fund a pair of 650's and later a third 650 was added. Since I have added two Super 1050's and a RL 1000. I have also helped a bunch of people set-up their Dillon's. None of them had anything close to what you are experiencing. Any sticking was solved by polishing the funnel or lube on the case ID. Never experienced anything close to possibly breaking the shell plate? While I do wet tumble at times it's always includes Meguiar's car wash with wax to prevent tarnishing or a corn cob tumble with wax after wet tumbling.

Could it be an issue with the fail safe powder system adjustment?

Could you post a video of the press having the issues?

Only thing I can find similar on the web is related to wet tumbling or galled funnels.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/265993-cases-sticking-on-powder-funnel-new-problem/

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/152189-case-sticking-on-bellingpowder-funnel/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHeVk5GkX0o

Coated and hardened replacement here.

https://shootingsportsinnovations.com/alpha-dropper-powder-funnel/

[jsizemore]

I found my custom powder funnel extended to far into the case and was hanging where the tip was contacting the case web. I had given the maker dimensions but it was a bit too long. I had measured a bunch of different cases and figured I had the shortest straight wall section measured. After talking to the maker he said he left it a little long just in case. I ground it back a little, polished and tested. Much better but needed a little more. End result was my sticking problem went away. I didn't cut as much as the fella in the above video. You could try a little more angle at the tip to see if it makes a difference. I did all my work with hand tools and a drill to turn the funnel.

[dearslayer]

Don't take this as any type of criticism but something just isn't adding up. I first purchased a Dillon 450 in the mid 80's. When the 550's came out I purchased two. The 450 and the 550's were sold to fund a pair of 650's and later a third 650 was added. Since I have added two Super 1050's and a RL 1000. I have also helped a bunch of people set-up their Dillon's. None of them had anything close to what you are experiencing. Any sticking was solved by polishing the funnel or lube on the case ID. Never experienced anything close to possibly breaking the shell plate? While I do wet tumble at times it's always includes Meguiar's car wash with wax to prevent tarnishing or a corn cob tumble with wax after wet tumbling.

Could it be an issue with the fail safe powder system adjustment?

Could you post a video of the press having the issues?

Only thing I can find similar on the web is related to wet tumbling or galled funnels.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/265993-cases-sticking-on-powder-funnel-new-problem/

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/152189-case-sticking-on-bellingpowder-funnel/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHeVk5GkX0o

Coated and hardened replacement here.

https://shootingsportsinnovations.com/alpha-dropper-powder-funnel/
I've watched that video a couple times in the past and wondered if I should try the same. I think I will do it today. Will report back on progress.

[dearslayer]

I found my custom powder funnel extended to far into the case and was hanging where the tip was contacting the case web. I had given the maker dimensions but it was a bit too long. I had measured a bunch of different cases and figured I had the shortest straight wall section measured. After talking to the maker he said he left it a little long just in case. I ground it back a little, polished and tested. Much better but needed a little more. End result was my sticking problem went away. I didn't cut as much as the fella in the above video. You could try a little more angle at the tip to see if it makes a difference. I did all my work with hand tools and a drill to turn the funnel.

I never thought that it might be too long. But will try shortening it a bit to see if it helps. Thanks.

[dearslayer]

This is the funnel currently. 319656319657319658

Sent from my LYA-L0C using Tapatalk

[oldsman]

that it looks like it was made for 38 sp wad cutter , that has a very long stem . shorten that will not help , the step to increase inside diameter is to far from the flair radius . the die should go deep enough to hit the radius part of the die to put a slight bell on the brass with that larger step on the stem about 3/16 or so from the start of flair radius . From what I can see in your photo the flair is not even hitting the top of the brass and you are bottoming out into the brass before you can get to the bell flair

[dearslayer]

that it looks like it was made for 38 sp wad cutter , that has a very long stem . shorten that will not help , the step to increase inside diameter is to far from the flair radius . the die should go deep enough to hit the radius part of the die to put a slight bell on the brass with that larger step on the stem about 3/16 or so from the start of flair radius . From what I can see in your photo the flair is not even hitting the top of the brass and you are bottoming out into the brass before you can get to the bell flair
So what do you think my options are with this one? This one was made by a member here who was kind enough to help me out.

[jmorris]

Stop wet tumbling or put them in a dry tumbler with corncob and polish after you do the wet. Squeaky clean…well, that “squeak” is what you are complaining about.

Get a bottle of Dillon lube and put a layer of foil on a cookie sheet and a single layer of cases, give the bottle a pump as you fan across the layer of brass, with a couple of passes to get coverage. You can shake the tray back a forth too, rolling the brass.

Let this sit long enough for the alcohol to evaporate leaving the lube behind.

Let us know how that feels. Most that don’t lube their brass, have never tried it to see just how much difference it actually makes.

[oldsman]

look into buying the Mighty Armory , I would not get the mr bullet feeder I know those stick , there is another company that sells them called Photo Escape , never delt with them . I am using Mighty's 30 cal neck sizer in 30 carbine and it work great but that is not a powder die . I would check if Mighty will ship to you , sometime Mighty has listings on ebay

[dearslayer]

Stop wet tumbling or put them in a dry tumbler with corncob and polish after you do the wet. Squeaky clean…well, that “squeak” is what you are complaining about.

Get a bottle of Dillon lube and put a layer of foil on a cookie sheet and a single layer of cases, give the bottle a pump as you fan across the layer of brass, with a couple of passes to get coverage. You can shake the tray back a forth too, rolling the brass.

Let this sit long enough for the alcohol to evaporate leaving the lube behind.

Let us know how that feels. Most that don’t lube their brass, have never tried it to see just how much difference it actually makes.

Ive already tried your suggestion and nothing was different. I even tried loading with dirty brass and it still stuck. I've tried tumbling my clean wet tumbled brass in wax infused dry media and still the same result. I've also tried Hornaday One Shot and STILL NO DIFFERENCE! I'm so frustrated it's beyond words.

[dearslayer]

Hard to believe that nothing is working! I MUST be doing something wrong. Just to add that I ALSO purchased a 9mm DAA funnel expander a while back to try and it also produced the same result so it like I said before , I'm trying everything I can think of. 319667

Sent from my LYA-L0C using Tapatalk

[oldsman]

did you try the DDA one with case lube, try this test
do you have any imperial case lube if not
rub in some lube directly on the powder funnel massage it in good with finger tips just to see if it still sticks ,ues the DDA mr bullet feeder one, it should work till the lube wears away

[dearslayer]

did you try the DDA one with case lube, try this test
do you have any imperial case lube if not
rub in some lube directly on the powder funnel massage it in good with finger tips just to see if it still sticks ,ues the DDA mr bullet feeder one, it should work till the lube wears away

I've tried so many combos I'm starting to forget but I'll definitely give it a go. I do have imperial case lube. Only thing I hate about the lube on the expander is that the powder sticks to it when charging.

[M-Tecs]

How much force does it take to pull the funnel out of the 9mm case compared to a bottle neck case like a 308 or 30/06 coming out of the sizing die followed by the expander die?

[uscra112]

Since none of the lube tricks is working, lets try marking the nose of the funnel with ink. Dykem blue would be best, but a Magic Marker wiill do. Install it, run a few cases past it, and look to see where it's making contact. I'm leaning toward the hypothesis that the nose is too fat so it's sticking deep in the cases where the walls are curving in toward the web. Yoi night try the reverse, too. Mark up the inside of the cases and look for a contact ring. Do it with some cases that haven't been sized down yet.

[elmacgyver0]

Get a Lee:kidding:

[elmacgyver0]

On a serious note, I hope you get it figured out.
Perhaps a little Imperial sizing lube on the funnel thing from time to time.
That stuff will let you shove a telephone pole up a cat's rear end.

[dearslayer]

How much force does it take to pull the funnel out of the 9mm case compared to a bottle neck case like a 308 or 30/06 coming out of the sizing die followed by the expander die?
That I wouldn't know because I have yet to load any rifle cartridges but suffice to say it takes a lot of force to disengage the case.

[dearslayer]

Since none of the lube tricks is working, lets try marking the nose of the funnel with ink. Dykem blue would be best, but a Magic Marker wiill do. Install it, run a few cases past it, and look to see where it's making contact. I'm leaning toward the hypothesis that the nose is too fat so it's sticking deep in the cases where the walls are curving in toward the web. Yoi night try the reverse, too. Mark up the inside of the cases and look for a contact ring. Do it with some cases that haven't been sized down yet.

I will definitely try this when I get a minute. Working night shift 6 days a week doesn't allow for much time to do anything. I definitely need to win a lottery so I can retire.

[uscra112]

I will definitely try this when I get a minute. Working night shift 6 days a week doesn't allow for much time to do anything. I definitely need to win a lottery so I can retire.

I hear ya. Did a 15 year sentence with a Tier One supplier to Generous Motors. On call 24/7/365, and I once worked from New Years until May without a single day off, troubleshooting a system. Needless to say extracurricular activities took a back seat.

[oldsman]

I just ordered the Mighty Armory funnel flair die to try out for myself so I can compare it to the mr bullet feeder die

[dearslayer]

I just ordered the Mighty Armory funnel flair die to try out for myself so I can compare it to the mr bullet feeder die
If you don't mind could you please let me know how it works. I'd appreciate it.

[sigep1764]

The way I solved my sticking problem with 9mm in my 550c was to deprime and size on the single stage. Stage one on the Dillon is filled with a Lee Universal expander and an NOE expander plug. If shipping is cheaper from an individual, I will offer up my services. You can have it shipped to me and I'll send it to you. Just an idea to check out. Second option would be to have a member here turn one on a lathe for you and ship it.

[jsizemore]

I took some measurements on my custom powder funnel. From the tip of the funnel where the powder exits to the start of the flair is .25". The straight barrel of the expander over most of that quarter inch is .356". The outside diameter of the tip of the funnel where the powder comes out is .31". From the .31" tip to where the expander is the .356" diameter is almost a straight taper is .04" long. I hope that makes sense to you. From where the flair starts to the where the flair ends at the shoulder is .25" long. Where the flair taper ends at the shoulder is .46" diameter. The shoulder diameter is .509".

The throats on my pistols like .3575" bullets. I size to .3577" and pulled bullets measure .3575" with my alloy. The fella didn't like making the expander that big but it works with my reloading components. If it's a little big it can be reduced in size. Where my expander contacts the brass has a high luster from so much use. Good Luck.

[dverna]

Iv mentioned this subject in another thread but it's driving me nuts. If i'm only loading a few rounds it's not as big a deal but when doing a few hundred rounds it's more than annoying. Loading 9mm cast boolits on my Dillon XL750 press and honestly i feel like i'm gonna break the shell plate the cases stick so bad. Releasing the funnel results in a pretty big THUMP each and every time. To clarify I'm not using the expander that came with the press. That expander allowed my boolits to fall over resulting it shaved boolits. My cast boolits measure 0.3565 after powder coating and sizing. A vey generous member here on cast boolits actually made me a new expander that works fantastic. Expanding just enough to insert the boolit it sits on somewhat of a shelf created by the expander that allows the boolit to stand up straight to prevent shaving the lead when seating.
Some have mentioned that the cases are too clean but I've tried less clean cases, Hornady one shot, imperial wax on the expander tip and still the same result. I"ve also polished the heck out of the expander and still cases stick so bad that it makes reloading very un enjoyable.
Anyone else have this same issue??I'm at wits end. Can someone provide a link to an expander that will work for these boolits? I'm sure I'm leaving out necessary info so please ask.

My cast bullets are a bit smaller (I think, because I cannot measure to .0001) .356". I am using the expander that came with the Dillon dies and have not had bullet shaving.

It might be worth going back to the Dillon expander and checking if it is adjusted to put a bit more flair on the case.

BTW, I use bevel base bullets. Flat base bullets are going to be a tougher challenge to keep from shaving. I also use "hardball" (92-2-6) alloy so it will be less prone to shaving than a softer alloy.

Like others, I use a case lube but that does not seem to be helping you so there is something going on with the expander. That is why I suggest going back to the Dillon expander. It should work and if not, Dillon will replace it.

[JimB..]

look into buying the Mighty Armory , I would not get the mr bullet feeder I know those stick , there is another company that sells them called Photo Escape , never delt with them . I am using Mighty's 30 cal neck sizer in 30 carbine and it work great but that is not a powder die . I would check if Mighty will ship to you , sometime Mighty has listings on ebay

Mr. feeder folks buy their powder funnels from Photo Escape. FWIW, I do not have a sticking issue with them.

i would try spray lube, but I’d do it with the cases standing up. Lubing the outside of the cases isn’t going to help your problem.

[jetinteriorguy]

Another thought, sounds like some serious galling going on. I’m thinking if you’re just cranking rounds out as fast as you can perhaps you’re building up heat on the funnel from the friction. This will increase the galling action significantly. Maybe slowing down will lessen the heat buildup and help prevent it from galling. One way to perhaps figure this out is if the sticking only starts after you’ve been loading a while, in other words if it’s not sticking when starting out cold but gets progressively worse as you go. This may be a weird thought, but something to consider and doesn’t cost a dime to try.

[dillonhelp]

The carbon residue inside the fired cases acts as a lubricant on the powder funnel. All size dies will size the case neck portion tighter than necessary. This is because there is too much variation in case neck thickness. Then the powder funnel has an expander portion that opens the case neck up to a uniform inside diameter. This ensures consistant neck tension holding the projectile, regardless of brass manufacturer. If you insist on wet cleaning, leave the pins out and run for 30-45 minutes, so some carbon residue remains inside the case. Using a car wash containing car wax instead of other citric acid based products helps. A light spray of Dillon case lube on the brass can overcome this. Dillon case lube is alcohol and lanolin, so the powder burning rate is not affected.

[M-Tecs]

Wet tumbling has some advantages and some disadvantages. The main reason I wet tumble is to clean the primer pockets. Everything that I have read indicates that for most application this is not really a benefit but if I am going thru the extra effort to wet tumble I want the primer pockets clean.

Since long before wet tumbling was a thing, I did/do all brass processing in two steps. All my Dillons have case feeders. I size, deprime and expand the neck/flare in the first time through the press. For straight wall cases I mostly use a Lyman M type die. Next is wet tumbling and or trimming if needed. Second pass thru the press is to prime, drop powder and seat/crimp the bullet. I prefer to crimp after the bullet is fully seated so I generally use a separate crimp die if needed. Using this method, you also a more flexibility for die locations.

Using this method (particularly with ball powders) the lack of additional vibration allows the Dillon measure to drop is amazing accuracy. Funnels sticking issues are also eliminated.

[dearslayer]

The way I solved my sticking problem with 9mm in my 550c was to deprime and size on the single stage. Stage one on the Dillon is filled with a Lee Universal expander and an NOE expander plug. If shipping is cheaper from an individual, I will offer up my services. You can have it shipped to me and I'll send it to you. Just an idea to check out. Second option would be to have a member here turn one on a lathe for you and ship it.
Thanks so much for that offer and perhaps another time I may take you up on it. Fortunately a very generous member here has offered up to make me a new one.

[dearslayer]

Another thought, sounds like some serious galling going on. I’m thinking if you’re just cranking rounds out as fast as you can perhaps you’re building up heat on the funnel from the friction. This will increase the galling action significantly. Maybe slowing down will lessen the heat buildup and help prevent it from galling. One way to perhaps figure this out is if the sticking only starts after you’ve been loading a while, in other words if it’s not sticking when starting out cold but gets progressively worse as you go. This may be a weird thought, but something to consider and doesn’t cost a dime to try.
Oh heck no....I have to move at a snails pace due to the severe sticking. There's no way to do it fast under the current circumstances.

[M-Tecs]

When I process pistol brass I mostly use carbide dies. I still use a light spray of Hornady One Shot. I've never timed output rates but it's well over 1,000 rounds per hour without any meaningful sticking/galling issues.

I do let the One Shot dry for at least 30 minutes.

[uscra112]

That less than 4 seconds per piece.......you can keep that up for an hour?

[M-Tecs]

That less than 4 seconds per piece.......you can keep that up for an hour?

Awhile back I sized and deprimed 3,300 223 cases for a buddy in one setting using my Super 1050 and Dillon carbide sizing die. The cases were lightly tumbled in corncob to remove some stuck-on dirt/mud then sprayed with Hornady Ones shot the day before. When you only have to pour cases into the feeder and pull the handle 1 per 4 seconds is easy. I did let the dogs out a couple of times and did a couple of other minor things, but total time was still under 4 hours. Yes, my elbow was sore the next day.

Normally I like to do batches between 1K and 2K.

[Valley-Shooter]

I used to have problems with sticking cases, but I don't anymore.

I load my 9mm on a Dillon RL1050. I removed the Dillon expander die on station 2. I installed a Lyman M die, I got it super cheap on eBay. At the powder measure I have a Photo Escape powder thru expander. The majority of the expanding happens with the Lyman die and the powder thru expander finishes the expansion. I load 147 grain Hi Tek coated cast bullets. I wet tumble my range pickup brass with s/s pins, Dawn, and citrus acid; and rinse tumble with car wash, I usually deprime it before the wet tumbling. I also rollsize, so my 9mm brass before it gets loaded.

[uscra112]

Awhile back I sized and deprimed 3,300 223 cases for a buddy in one setting using my Super 1050 and Dillon carbide sizing die.

You must have a case feeder that orients the case automatically.

And one arm twice the size of the other.

[M-Tecs]

You must have a case feeder that orients the case automatically.


Is there any other type?

Start the video at 6 minutes. He is sizing and trimming. All the excess lub. he has in the feeder will start causing problems but is does show a normal production rate of just processing brass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TybnoxE-Isc

jmorris has posted some nice videos of his fully automated Dillons. One example below in post #4. His stated he does 1000 rounds in 52 minutes for fully loaded ammo. My guess is he has to stop stopping to fill primers and powder. Bullets and brass should be able to be added as the machine cycles. I don't use bullet feeders and I do stop to pour cases in the feeder.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?461503-Posen-warren-motor-drive&p=5641011#post5641011

[uscra112]

Only ones I know of are a tube that you stack the cases in. But I'm not a progressive press user. My shooting sports are well served by a single stage RCBS junior. I only know what I saw in the magazine ads before I quit reading them in the 1990s.

[M-Tecs]

Only ones I know of are a tube that you stack the cases in. But I'm not a progressive press user. My shooting sports are well served by a single stage RCBS junior. I only know what I saw in the magazine ads before I quit reading them in the 1990s.

Here's an old one from jmorris with a bullet feeder.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La83ZVKnBzw

[gloob]

I ran into the same problem. Happens with expanders that are extra large and deep. You just get a lot of stiction and galling, even with dry tumbled cases and lube.

I added a relief groove down the middle of the plug just to break up the area and to hold a bit of lube. It's much improved. I just chucked the plug in a lathe and touched it somewhere in the middle with a cutoff disc. If you have a steady hand, you might be able to make 2 or 3 grooves. Be sure to at least leave full OD at the tip and base, and you should be ok.


This reminds me of why I think grooveless bullet molds for PC might be a bad idea. The grooves might help reduce friction and give a place for displaced lead and debris to collect. Copper jacketed bullets are designed to reach the land but not completely fill the grooves. There's some extra room in there.

[dearslayer]

I’ve been having so many issues with the cases sticking and crimping etc that through mighty frustration I decided to purchase a set of Dillon 9mm dies to use on the Dillon XL750. They have been on backorder since I purchased this press, but I was on a “ to be notified “ when product comes in. So I got the email and thought what the heck I’ll give a try. Well, it does help. The sizing die function seems to be a lot smoother. Perhaps my imagination but none the less. I must mention that at the time of installing the Dillon set I decided to also try once again the Double Alpha powder funnel that I purchased shortly after the purchase of the press and the sticking case issue. It didn’t help much back then but I thought I’d give it another try. With just enough flare to place the boolit, it does stick less than both the original and custom-made funnel . Not great but it is considerably less sticking. The issue now is that my finished rounds all look like they have the dreaded coke bottle shape. I did not know this was a thing with the Dillon sizing die. I wish I knew it before purchasing the set. I’ve just been listening to some Youtube videos and it seems that the Mighty Armoury sizing die would perhaps fix this issue, but I just spent $203.00 shipped on this Dillon set and I don’t feel like dropping anymore cash on dies right now. So, is there a fix for the coke bottle affect other than replacing the sizing die completely? I have not fired any of these new rounds with the Dillon dies as of yet.

319815319816

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[kevin c]

The coke bottle look comes from certain combinations of bullet size, case wall thickness and case sizing.

IIRC, the reloaded case is sized cylindrically, but the factory 9x19 case is tapered, so sizing the case mouth down means the case below the bullet base will be under the factory diameter. Add a fat cast bullet, especially one with a long bearing surface, and you get the wasp waist, which is worse if the brass is thick.

Less seating depth, a smaller diameter bullet or thinner walled brass might reduce the look. Or you could use factory new brass. Functionally I don’t think it matters.

Instead of a Coke bottle “narrow waist”, you might get an actual bulge without a waist, caused by a really long shanked deep seated oversized bullet that hits a high web. Those usually won’t chamber.

Drop the loaded rounds in the barrel you intend to shoot them through: if they “plunk” into the chamber and turn easily, chances are you won’t have any malfunctions related to the Coke bottle effect.

[dearslayer]

My boolits are a fairly long shank with no lube groove. Also with unbeveled base.

[kevin c]

The long shank and square base probably add to the look. If they chamber OK then it’s of no consequence.

The flat base, as others mentioned above, does make bullet seating a bit harder. It’s why I switched to bevel base designs for the rounds I produce in volume.

[kevin c]

I don’t have a 750, but my SDB’s linkage really didn’t accommodate much variation in aftermarket funnels. Have you laid the various powder funnel/expanders side by side and noticed any dimensional differences? With the funnels installed, was there any binding in the press linkages? My sticking came from the flare portion of the die. Turning the die out to not flare the mouth caused binding or failure to actuate the powder bar. I ended up using a modified custom funnel with shims in one pass and the Dillon funnel in a second to get the sizing and expansion I wanted without any sticking (more time consuming, but very smooth).

[Lefty Red]

I have the same problem! I went to doing my WC load on a single stage it’s so bad.

[oldsman]

I tried out the Mighty Armory yesterday , all I can say it is a lot less sticky than the DDA one , its has a touch of stick but no wear near what the DDA has . The brass was cleaned with treated walnut only ran a dozen or so thur each die. Needed a slight ajustment for each die to set the flair . The finish on the Mighty is glassy smooth
319877

[oldsman]

this test was done on a 650 , and the DDA die has some use on it

[jetinteriorguy]

I replaced the Dillon powder measure on my 550 with a Lee Pro Disc and using the new NOE powder through funnels. Works marvelous, pretty much flawless, especially with flaky powders. I just adjust the holes in the discs with a tapered reamer to throw the needed amount after working up a load with my regular adjustable powder measure.

[JimB..]

I tried out the Mighty Armory yesterday , all I can say it is a lot less sticky than the DDA one , its has a touch of stick but no wear near what the DDA has . The brass was cleaned with treated walnut only ran a dozen or so thur each die. Needed a slight ajustment for each die to set the flair . The finish on the Mighty is glassy smooth
319877
Can you coat each with dykem and then run 10 or 20 cases with each? I’m curious about the wear patterns.

[oldsman]

Can you coat each with dykem and then run 10 or 20 cases with each? I’m curious about the wear patterns.

I dont have Dykem , and the setup is at friends house , he hade an extra press I could experiment with , mine are tied up for now . I only go there on sat

[dearslayer]

I tried out the Mighty Armory yesterday , all I can say it is a lot less sticky than the DDA one , its has a touch of stick but no wear near what the DDA has . The brass was cleaned with treated walnut only ran a dozen or so thur each die. Needed a slight ajustment for each die to set the flair . The finish on the Mighty is glassy smooth
319877
Well that's good to hear. Sounds like I may need something similar.

[uscra112]

Even a Magic Marker will do if you don't have Dykem ink.

[oldsman]

well it wont be till next sat to try the marker test . I also use a marker for setting up the crimp die

[gloob]

... With just enough flare to place the boolit, it does stick less than both the original and custom-made funnel . Not great but it is considerably less sticking. The issue now is that my finished rounds all look like they have the dreaded coke bottle shape. I did not know this was a thing with the Dillon sizing die...

Sizing die is fine. 9mm parabellum is a weird cartridge that has a slight taper to it. This means the brass is usually slightly thicker where the base of bullet sits compared to the mouth. Modern sizing dies have a carbide ring, and this takes the taper out of the 9mm. So the inside diameter of the 9mm case is generally always undersize at the base of the bullet by the time the mouth is sized enough. This is why you get the coke bottle after seating a bullet.

If your bullets shoot fine, there's no issue. But this coke bottle effect can size the base of your bullets down enough to cause problems. This is where and why you would want to use a custom full depth/size expander plug.

[oldsman]

here are your wear patterns320126320127

[oldsman]

320128320129

[oldsman]

320130320131

[JimB..]

Well done.
Do you have a micrometer? The contact surface on the mighty die seems smaller, which would reduce stickyness, but mostly it looks like it might be smaller diameter and that you might not be putting it as far into the case.

[oldsman]

the mighty die actually had left slightly more flare on the brass because I did not re adjust for each die . And note that Mighty dos put a coating on their dies and it excepts a bullet just like the the dda die
And a side note we prep on a cp2000 mark7 driven and load on a rl1100 mark7 driven and the mark 7 drive dos not like the sticky the DDA produces , thats when we started prepping the brass with m style type die and that problem went away . But all the tests were done on are xl650 press with fresh brass to get a hand feel and now the Mighty die is now set up on the rl1100

[JimB..]

Beauty, I might have to try one just for giggles.

[jednorris]

In another thread, the guy tumbled with some car wax added. That might work, if nothing else it is better than a liquid lube.

[Leadmad]

I`m having or had similar problems with sticking cases in the expander funnel I bought from Lou`s gunwork's it works like the M style Die and a nice step of .1 of an inch to seat the projectile in, I have 2 of these one set up for 38 special and the other .45 ACP and both are used in separate Square Deal press`s and both calibers the cases would stick (Some cases more or harder than others ). I wet tumble and for the longest time used the pins for about 45 mins with a mix of Dish wash liquid (Any type) Citric acid and a splash of auto dishwasher powder. The dishwasher powder really cleaned things up and I stopped using the pins approx 2 years ago and that's when the sticking stopped. With no pins it left a very light layer of carbon inside the case and I firmly believe it works as a sort of lubricant and allows the cases to release easily from the expander funnel.

All the best and Cheers

[jetinteriorguy]

I`m having or had similar problems with sticking cases in the expander funnel I bought from Lou`s gunwork's it works like the M style Die and a nice step of .1 of an inch to seat the projectile in, I have 2 of these one set up for 38 special and the other .45 ACP and both are used in separate Square Deal press`s and both calibers the cases would stick (Some cases more or harder than others ). I wet tumble and for the longest time used the pins for about 45 mins with a mix of Dish wash liquid (Any type) Citric acid and a splash of auto dishwasher powder. The dishwasher powder really cleaned things up and I stopped using the pins approx 2 years ago and that's when the sticking stopped. With no pins it left a very light layer of carbon inside the case and I firmly believe it works as a sort of lubricant and allows the cases to release easily from the expander funnel.

All the best and Cheers
The dishwasher powder sounds like a good idea, I think I’ll give it a try. I’ve been pretty satisfied with just Dawn and citric but if this helps a bit it’s worth trying.

[ioon44]

I use Hornady One Shot to stop wet tumbled brass sticking to expander funnel, for .45 I set about 200 of them in a tray with mouth up and give a light spray from two directions. When I dry tumble brass the carbon left in the case stops the sticking problem.

[Kenstone]

Well that's good to hear. Sounds like I may need something similar.

Have you tried cutting a relief into the expander diameter.
That will greatly reduce the case length that contacts the expander, and minimize the sticking.
Here's a pic:
320497
You could chuck the expander in a drill, clamp the drill in a vise, and carefully cut that relief with a cut-off wheel in a Dremel type tool.
A drill press would work better if you have one. (a lathe would be even better)
Ideally, you would leave only about 1/8" length of the original diameter at the very end, like the pic.

The other end of the relief would be at the step, lengthening and blending that transition.
There's no "M" step in that expander pic. just a flare angle. :-?
.
Edit: here's another pic of an "M" expander showing the undercut/relief:
320498
Ignore the verbiage.
.

[dearslayer]

I use Hornady One Shot to stop wet tumbled brass sticking to expander funnel, for .45 I set about 200 of them in a tray with mouth up and give a light spray from two directions. When I dry tumble brass the carbon left in the case stops the sticking problem.

I've tried both methods with no luck. I've put off ordering the Mighty Armory expander because of the shipping, exchange, and brokerage fees but i'm gonna just bite the bullet sort of speak and order one.

[gloob]

Have you tried cutting a relief into the expander diameter.
That will greatly reduce the case length that contacts the expander, and minimize the sticking.
Here's a pic:
320497
You could chuck the expander in a drill, clamp the drill in a vise, and carefully cut that relief with a cut-off wheel in a Dremel type tool.
A drill press would work better if you have one. (a lathe would be even better)
Ideally, you would leave only about 1/8" length of the original diameter at the very end, like the pic.

The other end of the relief would be at the step, lengthening and blending that transition.
There's no "M" step in that expander pic. just a flare angle. :-?
.
Edit: here's another pic of an "M" expander showing the undercut/relief:
320498
Ignore the verbiage.
.

Perfect explanation. This is what I did on mine, or at least I started. Even just one thinner groove down the middle is a big improvement. I figured that theoretically you could go just past the tip and stop just before the step, and I'll probably go ahead and make it closer to this picture next time I want to load this cartridge.

[dearslayer]

To be clear, are these the cut lines refered to?320592

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[ioon44]

I've tried both methods with no luck. I've put off ordering the Mighty Armory expander because of the shipping, exchange, and brokerage fees but i'm gonna just bite the bullet sort of speak and order one.

Another thought is to check how much your sizing die is sizing your brass, too much sizing would create more pressure on the powder funnel, just something to consider.

On my 9 mm dies I back the sizer die up 1 turn (0.80") so the powder die doesn't have to work as hard and does not swag down my 0.359" Hi-Tek coated bullets.

[dearslayer]

Another thought is to check how much your sizing die is sizing your brass, too much sizing would create more pressure on the powder funnel, just something to consider.

On my 9 mm dies I back the sizer die up 1 turn (0.80") so the powder die doesn't have to work as hard and does not swag down my 0.359" Hi-Tek coated bullets.
Good point. I'll check that. I'm using Dillon Dies.

[ioon44]

I have got rid of Dillon dies that sized brass so much that when I loaded a bullet in the case it looked like a Coke bottle.

I am using Hornady die for about everything I load now.

[dearslayer]

I have got rid of Dillon dies that sized brass so much that when I loaded a bullet in the case it looked like a Coke bottle.

I am using Hornady die for about everything I load now.

I just recently purchased these dies but had I known they would produce a coke bottle effect I would not have purchased them.

[gloob]

To be clear, are these the cut lines refered to?320592

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If I'm not mistaken, the entire area between those two lines is ground slightly smaller than full diameter. The end of the plug is tapered. But as soon as it gets to full diameter, it only stays full OD for a short "driving band." Then the plug is ground maybe 2 thous smaller (springback is just under 2 thous). Then it goes back to full diameter only for a short band in front of the even larger OD step flare. So the end of the plug fully expands the case, and the mouth gets step flared, but the huge area between those two parts of the plug don't drag and stick. The brass will springback a bit between the two full diameter parts of the plug, but the relief is deeper than the springback. So the brass will lightly touch and glide over the relieved area.

I believe Country_gent described this on the first page. He called the relief a "draft."

Just leave enough full diameter band at the tip in case you ever want to shorten the plug for some reason.

[Kenstone]

To be clear, are these the cut lines refered to?320592

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No, the very end needs to be left at full diameter to expand the case. (Between the red lines.)
I extended the orange line (in red) to the point where the undercut should start.
320606

Full diameter on the end (between red lines).
Undercut in the middle (between the green lines).
320607
.

[dearslayer]

I have got rid of Dillon dies that sized brass so much that when I loaded a bullet in the case it looked like a Coke bottle.

I am using Hornady die for about everything I load now.


Well I backed up the sizing die one full turn and it made a noticeable difference in the coke bottle effect. It's only just barely noticeable now. Thanks for the tip.

[ioon44]

Just make sure your loaded ammo passes the plunk test in the barrel it is to be used in and make sure you don't have any bullet set back by applying hand pressure. I check set back by pushing the loaded round against the edge of my loading bench.

[ioon44]

I just recently purchased these dies but had I known they would produce a coke bottle effect I would not have purchased them.

I still have some Dillon dies that don't over size my brass, the ones that were a problem were replaced with Hornady.

Dillon customer service was not helpful with the issue of the coke bottle effect.

[dearslayer]

Just make sure your loaded ammo passes the plunk test in the barrel it is to be used in and make sure you don't have any bullet set back by applying hand pressure. I check set back by pushing the loaded round against the edge of my loading bench.

I actually pulled the barrels from 3 separate pistols to ensure they all passed the plunk test and all worked well. I haven't tried the set back against the bench but I definitely will. I do apply a separate taper crimp.

[dearslayer]

I still have some Dillon dies that don't over size my brass, the ones that were a problem were replaced with Hornady.

Dillon customer service was not helpful with the issue of the coke bottle effect.
I was curious if Dillon would do anything about that given their reputation of great customer service. That's disappointing because I was going to call them to see what they had to say. I still might.

[ioon44]

I was curious if Dillon would do anything about that given their reputation of great customer service. That's disappointing because I was going to call them to see what they had to say. I still might.

Call them and see what they say, the person I talked to about said that was normal, not the normal for Dillon's good customer service.

[dearslayer]

What would you recommend to remove material? A small file or Emery cloth held against that area while spinning in the drill press perhaps?

[ioon44]

I actually pulled the barrels from 3 separate pistols to ensure they all passed the plunk test and all worked well. I haven't tried the set back against the bench but I definitely will. I do apply a separate taper crimp.

I seat my bullet then taper crimp with a taper crimp die.

[gloob]

Well I backed up the sizing die one full turn and it made a noticeable difference in the coke bottle effect. It's only just barely noticeable now. Thanks for the tip.

If you care about consistency, you can place a shim between shellholder and die in order to take out the slight bit of variation you can get from flex when you size with a floating die. You can also buy shellholders that are plus or minus x thousandths.

But full depth and size expander will be the most consistent way to prep the brass and remove the coke bottle effect, if you can solve the sticking issue. Different headstamps will have different thicknesses at the base of the bullet. Proper expanding takes care of it the best.

Edit: oh, that shellholder and shim thing would only work for a single stage!

[Kenstone]

What would you recommend to remove material? A small file or Emery cloth held against that area while spinning in the drill press perhaps?

I explained the undercut process I used in a previous post in this thread:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?461722-sticking-cases-on-funnel-driving-me-crazy&p=5652818&viewfull=1#post5652818

jmo,
.