Beretta clone and cast boolits

[dddddmorgan]

I picked up a nice Girsan copy of the venerable Beretta 92.

If you haven't looked at them Girsan makes a terrific firearm for less than the "name brand."

Anyway, I'm going to try my hand next year at shooting IDPA locally and I thought I would try my new 9mm with 147 TC from my Lee mold and I was wondering if any of you smart folks had some experience to share?

I have a couple other choices if this one doesn't work out.

I want to go with the heavier boolit to make the power factor.

[Hick]

I have used the Lee 150 RN sized to 0.356 in my Taurus 92 (which is also "sort of" a Beretta 92 clone) and they worked fine, although I normally prefer something lighter. The only tricky part was finding just the right COL so they would fit the magazine and also chamber. I ran mine at 900 fps with 3.2 grains of Titegroup.

[wv109323]

The European 9mm's have extremely short throats in my experience. I have 2 CZ's and two Caniks that will not shoot cast boolits. When you get the bullet large enough for the bore the front of the chamber scraps lead off the bullet. After about 10 rounds there is enough lead in the front of the chamber that will not let the slide go into full battery.
I did have Dougguy ream one throat to allow the CZ to shoot cast. Many pistol now have salt treated barrels that are so hard they can not be reamed.

[armoredman]

I have no difficulty with cast in any of my CZ pistols, but I use the 124gr Lee TL boolit loaded to 1.1 - 1.095. No problem.
Enjoy your new sidearm, sir!

[dddddmorgan]

Very interesting input, thank you all for the wisdom.

Perhaps a cast with Cerrosafe is in order, it would certainly be simple enough.

"Salt-treated" I'm intrigued, I'll have to research.

I'll get some freedom pills cast up and be sure to post any results.

[nicholst55]

Member @DougGuy can throat your barrel for cast boolits.

[dddddmorgan]

Member Dougguy can throat your barrel for cast boolits.

Can you expand/explain this further for me?

I think I have a good idea of what you're talking about but information is king.

[nicholst55]

Doug can explain what he does much better than I can. It normally involves either running a chamber reamer that cuts a longer throat into the chamber, or using a throating reamer to cut a deeper/longer throat.

From his signature line: Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

[DougGuy]

The "process" of throating the barrel is to ream some freebore in front of the chamber, and "push" the rifling farther away so you can seat out as long as you want to, COA constrained only by the limitation of the magazine.

Barrel on the left is stock Springfield RO 45 ACP, barrel on the right is the same barrel after throating.

319620

Unfortunately I no longer offer throating of hardened barrels. These can only be throated with a carbide reamer.

I tried for a number of years to keep carbide reamers sharp and working but I discovered it a no win situation unless you want to invest in several carbide reamers at the cost of $300+ each, so you will have a reamer to use while one gets sent out for resharpening.

Last I priced getting a JGS carbide reamer sharpened, it would have cost $200 counting shipping both ways, and a 6mo wait. Once the reamer did get sharpened, it's only got 10-12 barrels left before it goes away and starts cutting a less than pretty finish, and the freebore diameter shrinks with the wear on the reamer.

Afaik Patriot Defense is still offering throating of hardened barrels.


I have a couple other choices if this one doesn't work out.

I want to go with the heavier boolit to make the power factor.

In response I would suggest either using a stainless aftermarket barrel for Beretta (IF it will fit the Turkish made 92 clone) or choose a different pistol with a barrel that can be throated to shoot cast.

The conundrum you face is seating the 147 short enough to plunk and feed in the Girsan, this lessens the available case volume under the boolit, and you have to compensate load data in order to not create an over pressure event and KB the gun in your hands. Will it make major with the short COA?

[dddddmorgan]

Well I'm glad to see my mind was on the right track.

Thanks for the input Doug, I'll keep you in mind for sure.

[tazman]

I don't have experience with the particular firearm you have. I do have experience with other brands of 92 copies.
Mine is a Taurus PT92. I had issues with cast in the factory barrel. It turned out that the rifling didn't have enough height to properly grip a cast boolit without shearing thus causing instability and poor accuracy. My solution was to use a Beretta 92 barrel which is a drop in fit in the Taurus.
The rifling is substantially taller and grips the cast boolits well. Also, it had the advantage of having a generous chamber and avoids most of the issues you can run into with cast and the 9mm.
This worked out quite well for me. Very accurate with a wide variety of boolit designs including the one you are interested in using.
The Beretta 92(m9) barrels can be purchased for fairly cheap on many auction sites.

[FergusonTO35]

FYI, the Lee 356-120-TC works in alot of short throat barrels when others won't. I just shoot 'em as cast dipped in LLA. Try 3.5 grains Titegroup/1.050 OAL for a very clean and accurate load.

[dddddmorgan]

Thanks for the input Ferg, I've got that mould if I need to use it, I'm just hoping to be able to use the bigger boolit at a lower speed (always my preference). My order from Midway is supposed to be here tomorrow.

[lotech]

I've tried many cast designs in the Beretta 92F that I purchased new about thirty-five years ago. Nothing shoots as accurately as the 150 grain round nose Lyman .38 Special design #358212, but I don't think this mould has been made in years. I size bullets in a .358" die; they come out at .3575", which has worked well, though a full .358" will likely work fine also, as long as it will chamber without difficulty. No bore leading with ww alloy. Conventional sizing and lubing.

[Kosh75287]

You only need 851 f/s muzzle velocity to make "minor" with a 147 gr. projectile in all the shooting leagues. You will not safely make "major" with any 9mmP load that is safe to shoot in a M92 Beretta clone. 851+ f/s is pretty well obtainable with any propellant as slowly or slower burning as W231. MY favorite load for heavies in 9mmP is 4.0/Unique/147 gr. "anything". Accurate, feeds well, operates slides reliably, moderate recoil (even for a 9mm) and has never exhibited signs of over-pressure (no primer flattening, nor throwing brass into next week). Depending on the 147 gr. projectile of interest, the max recommended load seems to hover around 4.3 - 4.5/Unique, so this load should not stretch any pistols.
MY experience with 147 gr. projectiles in 9mm says that cartridge overall length will have much to do with reliable feeding. Starting out, I recommend that you seat the projectiles without crimping (removing the case mouth belling), then adjust the taper crimp to apply the least amount possible for the loaded rounds to pass the "plunk test". This is what has worked for me.

Good luck, and please tell us about results!

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks for the input Ferg, I've got that mould if I need to use it, I'm just hoping to be able to use the bigger boolit at a lower speed (always my preference). My order from Midway is supposed to be here tomorrow.

You're welcome. I have the Arsenal .359-130-RF and it has a narrower nose than most. All of my 9's do well with it, and none have been throated.

[dddddmorgan]

Thanks for the input Kosh, I've got some Unique (good ole "Flaming Dirt" I love it) and I'll be seeing what I can accomplish with various shotgun powders.

I've got a few boxes of 9mm stashed that I can shoot through as I do my testing to work on my skills.