Prayers answered? KAK .17-5.56

[Wolfdog91]

So I've been pretty bummed trying to figure out how I could go about having a low cost .17cal center fire. Wanted to build my own on an AR platform but custom barrels,brass and and other stuff have been getting irritated. Well like my prayers where answer this just popped up on my 50th something search I know these guys make some nice off the wall AR stuff like a 300wsm upper and this looks like it might be the answers to my prayers !!
Barrels are only $200 too !
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231105/5183db1056ae55e36d48b56b10734ed3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231105/8d1aa3deba23df95962c2fc9cebdeed3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231105/f371727d826dc6f1147af49bf4c6dd7f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231105/0f4fda119449fff7c0e3609e86b23a4b.jpg

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[Mk42gunner]

At least they are offering good reloading dies for it.

Might be a fun round to shoot, but handling those tiny little projectiles?

Good Luck,

Robert

[Texas by God]

A friend of mine still has his Remington 700 BDL .17 Remington but I doubt that he’s shot it in a while.
I remember him killing a deer with two shots- about an inch apart and the jhp bullets went through the rib cage. He went back to his .308 for deer but foxes, crows and coyotes fell to that .17.
Yours will be a great varmint gun.


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[Wolfdog91]

At least they are offering good reloading dies for it.

Might be a fun round to shoot, but handling those tiny little projectiles?

Good Luck,

RobertCan't be much worse then all my .22 cals
Hornet is the smallest thing I mess with right now
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[rockrat]

Might check out the 17 Rem. and see how the case dimensions compare. Might be able to load using 17 rem dies if the shoulder is just moved forward a bit, then you just back off the size die a bit.

[M-Tecs]

The $150 for the dies is a minor turnoff for me. Having owned and sold two 17 Remington and a 17 Hornet the only 17's I want to own are air rifles or rimfires. If you only load ball powders the 17 cal. neck isn't much of a problem. Loading stick powders can be a major pain.

Barrel fouling was also an issue with my Rem 700 and my Sako in 17 Remington.

Stepping up to the 20 Cals eliminates the stick powder bridging issues. I have become very fond of the 20 VarTarg and the 204 Ruger. On the other hand, some really like the 12 Cal and 14 Cal. I am not one of them based on my 17 Cal experiences.

Not trying to talk you out of it just pointing out some issues that you might not be aware of.

[45workhorse]

Swell something else to look into, thanks Wolfdog91!!!:kidding:

[Thundarstick]

If it where me, I'd be much more inclined twards a .20 practical. Basically a necked down .223.

[Lloyd Smale]

what are the advantages to this over a 223? id think it would make more of mess out of eatable game at a 100 yards. any farther then that and your dealing with wind drift and i doubt its flatter shooting out at 300 yards. 17s never impressed me. i played with the rim fires for a couple years and the only benefit i found, if can call it that, is a lighter wallet. to me you can keep anything under 22 cal unless your thrill is reading a chronograph and if that makes you smile come on over and we can load up some 100 grainers for my 6.5x300wby or my 7stw and run them through the screens. a heck of alot more impressive on praire dogs too.:redneck:

[Texas by God]

There are .14 caliber enthusiasts out there as well.
They may think of the .20 and .22 caliber as Big Bore…..


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[Thundarstick]

The 17s and even fragile 20s make a lot of since, if your going after fur bearing animals. You usually get one tiny hole going in, massive internal damage, an instant kill, and one hole to sew up. The other advantage is a very low ricochet potential.
The 22s, even the very fast ones, are much more likely to blow out the backside, especially on long shots where the velocity has dropped.

I've seen folks field dress coyotes with a 7mm mag, but they weren't worried about collecting a hide.[smilie=l:

[Wayne Smith]

If you do this I would ask for specific instructions for forming the brass. If it is simply a reform in the die and fire form that's one thing, if it's proprietary that's another.

[Wolfdog91]

If you do this I would ask for specific instructions for forming the brass. If it is simply a reform in the die and fire form that's one thing, if it's proprietary that's another.


https://youtu.be/E0qnJvhR9cc?si=PDzAb0GT2zRSIWB0

[Wolfdog91]

what are the advantages to this over a 223? id think it would make more of mess out of eatable game at a 100 yards. any farther then that and your dealing with wind drift and i doubt its flatter shooting out at 300 yards. 17s never impressed me. i played with the rim fires for a couple years and the only benefit i found, if can call it that, is a lighter wallet. to me you can keep anything under 22 cal unless your thrill is reading a chronograph and if that makes you smile come on over and we can load up some 100 grainers for my 6.5x300wby or my 7stw and run them through the screens. a heck of alot more impressive on praire dogs too.:redneck:

Idk I just want a .17 cal centerfire I can reload and for brass for

[rayh]

If you plan on making your own brass from LC, you won't with just those dies. My forming die and bushing ( 8 bushing) are from Neil Jones. Buy their brass. I've done 20 different 17 wildcats over the years, I guess you can say I like the caliber. You'll have a lot of powder in this case so watch for carbon in the throat. The 20 gr is fun if you want to scream a bullet down range but you would be better served with the 25 gr and the 30's can be used since the barrel is a 9 tw. The 15.5gr drops too much at distance. Wind can be a problem in the field with 17's. If you have an itch for a 17, this probably is as cheap to scratch it as you can get. Good luck.

[TurnipEaterDown]

I Really like the 17 Ackley Hornet that I have had since the mid 90s.
Shot hundreds of 'sage rats' with it out to 250 yds w/ 18, 20, and 25 grain bullets over 4227/WC680/4198, many squirrels w/ 25 gr Hornady bullets at reduced velocities, multiple porcupines, and 1 beaver. Nice little rifle, For it's purpose. TC Contender 20", 6x old K6 1 min dot w/ fine duplex.

However, my experience w/ fast cartridge guns is that they all produce more carbon fouling than moderate velocity cartridges, and rapid shooting does the same (maybe just more shots fired in a given day). Carbon fouling can be hard to remove, and 17s already give their own challenges in cleaning.

So, me, think I would stay away from a large case 17 in an AR platform.

My 2 cents, fwiw.

[Rapier]

Never had an itch for a 17 or a 20. Several friends have them and shoot them very little, after the new wears off. The special cleaning rods and fast copper fouling, with the subsequent loss of accuracy is a turn off for them. I always clean my barrels after every outing, so the added, copper removal process was not of real interest to me. However, to each his own.
I just load the 35 SPs in my 224 guns, especially the Hornet and Bees. Out of the Bee at 3,400-3,500 fps the little 35s blow up on an aluminum soda can's front side. Not better, just an alternative.

[Wolfdog91]

If you plan on making your own brass from LC, you won't with just those dies. My forming die and bushing ( 8 bushing) are from Neil Jones. Buy their brass. I've done 20 different 17 wildcats over the years, I guess you can say I like the caliber. You'll have a lot of powder in this case so watch for carbon in the throat. The 20 gr is fun if you want to scream a bullet down range but you would be better served with the 25 gr and the 30's can be used since the barrel is a 9 tw. The 15.5gr drops too much at distance. Wind can be a problem in the field with 17's. If you have an itch for a 17, this probably is as cheap to scratch it as you can get. Good luck.

Mmmmmm nope seems video I posted a few up shows you only need a these dies since all your doing bumping a 5.56 case down to .17

[rayh]

You're necking the brass down .052. That's a bunch for one pass in a 17 caliber, not so bad with larger calibers. Looking at the last video, he doesn't neck turn so I'm guessing he has very thick neck walls. With out trying that set up, all I can tell you is from personal experience. The neck appears very short since he's using the same 23* shoulder. I've mainly used 40* with some rounds I didn't design the reamer, that had 30*. I've always spec'd my reamers to W-W brass with necks in the .198 to .200 OD. I've had poor results with used or range pick up brass. I buy new W-W or LC and use a small base die to get the base down to W-W size. Their dies are reasonable, custom dies are over 200 and long lead time with Hornady being the main makers for 17's. The one thing I haven't tried yet is casting for some of mine. I have both designs that Noe makes but just haven't tried them. I hope you get this and also try cast bullets. Good luck.

[david s]

Don't shoot a 17 caliber AR but I do play with the 17's. I've a 17 HMR in a CZ 452, 17 Hornet in a CZ 527, 17 Remington also in a CZ 527, 17 Fireball on a modified CZ 527 American that was originally a 17 Hornet and a 17 MK IV in an XP-100 pistol. There is nothing more mysterious about the 17's than there is about a 223. They do have some idiosyncrasies but so does every other round. You have the best reason for a 17 already listed, you want one so why not make it happen.

[firefly1957]

Way back in the 1970's I looked hard at the 17's and was pretty disappointed even though they are fast ballistic coefficient is poor . Recently I saw a accidental shooting with one and (.17 HMR) and in that case was surprised by the lack of damage to a mans arm and my opinion is still .22 caliber and up for anything bigger then rodents .
Then again unlike some I consider the .223/5.56 to light for deer .

[waksupi]

Some .17 calibers burn out throats in about 500 rounds. One day Les Bauska was sitting with me at a local gun show, and said .17 calibers were his favorite. Owning a barrel company, replacing barrels was no big deal to him!

[Wolfdog91]

Welp guess who got a 12% coupon in the email from KAK today.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231231/55c7e747ecd2a73fc55e43c753662bf9.jpg
Next up dies, gas block and hand guard

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[ebb]

I was putting an upper together a few months back and saw a free floated handguard was big money. I found that the colt round style of free float could be found cheapest of all and I had one on a DPMS varminter that I liked . I bought one for the rifle i was working on and had planned on another. i looked and could only find this one. Its at Right to Bare Arms, and it is listed as a TS brand full float handguard. The place I got mine had them in many different lengths and even cheaper but I can't find it any more. Look this one up if you can live with a round handguard and put your google fuu on finding the other brand if you want a different length. Many say free float is essential for an accurate rifle.

[35 Rem]

I have a Remington Heavy barrel model 700 in 17 Remington that I bought new sometime in the 1990's. I was used to 22 centerfires but those tiny little 17 caliber bullets are a noticeable difference in handling. :) A bit tedious to put them on a case mouth when seating bullets but you learn to do it. One thing that I found was how limber a 17 caliber cleaning rod is when trying to push a patch down the bore. Made me recall an expression my Father used to say when describing something difficult "It's like trying to shove a wet noodle up a wildcat's rear"! Being that our local groundhog population started fading fast about the time I bought that rifle, I've not shot it a lot. I'm sure well under 100 shots and maybe not even 50. I intend to do something about that soon.

I watched the video on forming cases, and it seems very straight forward. Was surprised that they don't change the shoulder angle and simply extend the shoulder up to join the neck at the proper 17 caliber diameter. This gives a short neck but it's still probably at least 1 caliber long sort of like the 223. Be prepared to run into possible surprises with different brands or ages of brass when case forming. You may have to find some work arounds or just set a batch of brass aside to use as 223/5.56 if you have forming problems with them, which is no problem since you already have guns so chambered. I ran into this with my 22 CHeetah wildcat when I started getting case neck failure during forming. I had to have a custom neck turn mandrel made for my Forster trimmer to turn a bit off the necks just prior to the last Form die to prevent the case from being destroyed at that step. But that was going from 30 caliber to 22 with 3 Form dies and a Trim die. This 17 wildcat is not as complicated. It all boils down to - if you want to do it bad enough, you'll figure it out and make it work!

[dale2242]

Having spent 40 years playing with large for bore capacity 17 caliber cartridges, be prepared for some frustration and challenges.
They may not be compatible with the AR platform but let me suggest that you go to a factory 17 caliber.
17 Hornet or 17 Remington Fireball are good choices.

[Bmi48219]

Some .17 calibers burn out throats in about 500 rounds…..

I don’t know the first thing about .17 caliber cartridges. Been reading about barrel / erosion lately. The posted KAK specs made me wonder about that. But I’d say go for it. Worst case, for the price you can always get another barrel.

[Wolfdog91]

Having spent 40 years playing with large for bore capacity 17 caliber cartridges, be prepared for some frustration and challenges.
They may not be compatible with the AR platform but let me suggest that you go to a factory 17 caliber.
17 Hornet or 17 Remington Fireball are good choices.

Just about none of the current factory .17 cal options fit my criteria in the way to easily find parent cases ,easy to find brass , affordable brass/ parent cases , affordable builds, easy customization I'm looking at many $600 total for an entire 17-.5.56 , have have literal buckets of once fired 5.56 brass, and yes you CAN find .17rem brass or similar if you look around a good bit but it's just such a pain compared to when I can buy 1300 PC of once fired 5.55 lake city for $100 off bucks like I just did. And yes I could go with .17hornet since I have a .22 hornet already but rifles arnt the easiest thing to find norw the cheapest. Don't get me wrong the savage walking Varminter is around and honestly might get one when I can get more brass to form it but I already know I'm going to want to replace the stock so that's $200 then other stuff to make it fit me not to mention again, brass sourcing.From talking with KAK the remmer has been tweaked a good bit so you don't have to do a bunch of extra crap as far as neck turning and the like. I don't have to go to a gunsmith for a rebarrel which I honestly don't have anyone I can go to within 3hr and one of the best parts is I don't have to talk to anyone on the phone or take weeks to get a barrel spun up. Just order right from the site and I'm done ,and build this thing on my bench. 17-223 was an option but trying to find somewhere that still offers it without alot of hassle and a long lead time is a pain.I Mean if you have $1500 and a gunsmith up the road along with decades of stock piled components then yes the legacy cartridges that have been out are an option, but it your a 20 somthing in this economy with a budget and no gunsmiths close and are just trying to break I to the world of .17cal centerfires, to play with more then anything...well not so much

[waksupi]

Kinda ugly, but...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1021518903

[Wolfdog91]

Kinda ugly, but...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1021518903

Wsm is rimfire non reloadable

[elmacgyver0]

He is talented enough to make it work and young enough to handle those little, teeny bullets.

[dverna]

Kinda ugly, but...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1021518903

Kind of expensive ammunition too!! About $.50- $.75/rd for a rimfire.

.17's are another rabbit hole for people to go down. It is astounding how folks need a new toy for every little niche they can dream up. I know...I did the same thing decades ago and wasted a pile of money on guns and calibers that were neat and next to "useless". And by "useless" I mean they did not do anything that much better than what I already had.

When I was in my early twenties, I had a .222 Rem and .308 Win. (There was no .223 back then.) They were all I could afford when I was going to school. Then I started making decent money and added a bunch of stuff...and I mean a bunch!!! I was no longer young and poor...but young and foolish.

Today, I am 73 and I have downsized to .223 and .308...almost back to where my journey began! I have sold off about ten calibers and many more guns. There is nothing a CF needs doing that those two calibers cannot do. From varmints to big game...from close quarter defense to taking out "problems" at a half a mile. They will do the job.

I know people who have a .270 and buy a 6.5 CM. Some "need" a .308 and a .30/06. I was just as stupid. Had a .243 Win, 6mm Rem, .243 WSSM and a .25/06...LOL...what a moron I was.

WD, ask yourself. Why do I need to get into a 17 cal? What will it do that my other calibers will not do? Is the advantage worth the investment? If you have already spent the money, it is too late...but think about those questions for your next "investment".

You will find "enablers" who have pissed away money on stuff they do not need. Some have the money to do it (as I did) and some have made bad choices. Look at the number of threads about primer/powder and costs/availability. IMO your priorities should be to get the weapons you NEED first, then start laying in enough components to last a minimum of 20 years. Then is time for the "toys" you want while still bumping up your inventory of components . Bear in mind, "the good old days" are likely gone forever. The mistakes guys like me made, and 'the enablers' encourage you to make, are far more serious now. Those $75/k primers that seem expensive now, may be $200/k in 5 years if you can find them. And, IMO, there will be more and more "toys" being sold at deep discounts as the cost of components go up, supplies get scarcer, and "the enablers" start dying off or selling off guns they can no longer afford to shoot.

I think about the over 15 thousand dollars I spent on "toys" when primers were $15/k or less. The toys are gone and not missed. It sure would be nice to have another 1,000,000 primers today. BTW, ignore those who tells you guns appreciate in value. $15k in guns 25 years ago might be worth $30k now. $15k in primers (1000 cases) would be worth $75k today. And primers are a lot more important than a toy you cannot afford to shoot.

[Wolfdog91]

..... investment.....yeah no,I get bored easy, I want one , think it would be fun to play with ,this is a CHEAP and affordable apparently pretty easy option .... About all the reason I need being an American imo.
I got what ,23-26 gun in my collection, only really need like four of em, but I like playing with different whacky stuff because it fun. New adventure new challenges. I mean that honestly how I get most of my guns I'll come up with a reason alot of times but heck 70% of the time I'm just here like , that looks cool I wanna play with it " that's like my 8mm mauser .saw it thought it was neat they wanted $250 I had $250 it's now sitting at the house waiting for a mold and dies. And I'm not under the illusion that I'm gonna be selling these back out something for increased profit. Just not my thing
Got everything thing I "need" covered like 3-5 times over.
Firearms and reloading just plain isn't one of these necessity driven things for me . It's something I enjoy doing ,I did the math and I save a good bit of cash for the quality of ammo I make .
As far as components, well that's why I like this caliber and stuff like the ARC cartridges. One parent case, same primer about the same power. O really other then different bullets I'm not buying much different

[Wolfdog91]

So little update, got the barrel and parts in. Had to spend a little more on the handgaurd because it was the only one under $75, but everything was either really budget ,Amazon or NBS parts. 20min all together and half of that was me looking for my Allen keys lol
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Gf also told me my dies arrived today so hopefully the bullets and my powder funnel arrive tomorrow when I go to pick those up [emoji16]

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[Wolfdog91]

Sine note the 17" hand guard is a bit goofy looking but was either that or drop $75-$200 on another if have it super short lol

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[Idaho45guy]

I believe I have some .17 caliber bullets I inherited from my dad. I think he shot .17 Javelin. Whatever bullets I have, you are welcome to them. Just give me your address and I'll send them out. No idea what he has or grain, but they will be likely Sierra or Nosler, lol.

[Wolfdog91]

Dies cam in today. Really nice dies ! No shell holder but pretty sure Redding dies don't generally come with one. No big deal though I have a few .223/5.45 dies floating around .
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So sized some cases and well, pretty straight forward honestly. Just really need to lube them up and not go too fast. Weird thing is you'll get 10 or so going great then 3-5 mess up then 10 more, tired alot of stuff but just kinda a pattern it seems lol. Was told a 20 practical die would be a good addition but eh , the whole deal is to make this brass with once fired whatever, so really it's not that bad.i mean if I was using all the range pick up stuff I have I really won't care at all Can still cut the crushed ones up for .300blk or .300hammer.
Just using some out of my lake city same head stamp stash. If I did the math right I have like $0.10 per piece of this brass .....vs .17 rem being like $1.50-$3.00 I pop when I've seen it, think a few mess ups is a good trade lol.
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[Wolfdog91]

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[725]

I'm glad you are enjoying the difference between need and want. good for you. really enjoy your threads. I have no dog in this hunt, but wondered if annealing the cases would reduce the loss rate. just a thought.

[dverna]

Looking forward to seeing how the gun/round shoots!!

Here is an old thread that might be of interest. It talks about the .17 Rem but it has good information.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?292097-How-about-17-Remington-from-223-brass

I often wonder why the .17 Rem was not very successful. Today, factory ammunition is stupid expensive, but having a cheap parent case makes it much like your new adventure...very affordable.

[M-Tecs]

I'm glad you are enjoying the difference between need and want. good for you. really enjoy your threads. I have no dog in this hunt, but wondered if annealing the cases would reduce the loss rate. just a thought.

You never know unless you try. That being said past experience indicates neck annealing increases the likelihood of shoulder collapses.

[M-Tecs]

Looking forward to seeing how the gun/round shoots!!

Here is an old thread that might be of interest. It talks about the .17 Rem but it has good information.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?292097-How-about-17-Remington-from-223-brass

I often wonder why the .17 Rem was not very successful. Today, factory ammunition is stupid expensive, but having a cheap parent case makes it much like your new adventure...very affordable.

Can't speak for others but for me it was fouling issues, bullets not expanding at times and the joys of trying to drop stick powders into a 17 Cal neck. I love my 17 Mach II and 17 HMR's. I am glad my 17 Rems are gone.

[Wolfdog91]

So some updates. Was out with the gf and her friend in Hammond ( they love book stores) and got a notification that my order of bullet from Midway was delayed ( I get back on the boat soon so that wasn't going to do) and my order from powder valley was the same sooo had to try to find some bullets . Called the bass pro 20min away front eh book store becithe website Sadie they had some on sale. Welp the guy ( great customer service,shout out to the Hammond Bass pro) checked and said they were soon the shelf and where most likely ghost numbers , as somones who's worked in modern retail, well I completely understand. Looked around and there's a small reloading shop in baton rouge, 40min away called and they said they had one box of 15.5 GR NTX. Well just so happens there's a Barnes and Noble ten min from there sooooo the lady and her friend where game [emoji16]
Great little shop cool old guys running it too. May or may not have went back in to try and buy powder and her follow me in and well it was pretty funny let's just say that [emoji23][emoji23]
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Well on or way home we had go by the exit to the bass pro I called. Wifey says let's go look at some achery stuff because my nephew is getting into achery for boy scouts and she wants to try. Well we go in and idk something tell me to go take a look in the reloading isle, and LOW N BEHOLD!!!
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[Wolfdog91]

So let's talk about case forming again
tried what a friend on another said about taking the decapping pin out and my crush case amount went way more down which when you think about it it makes sense. More downwards force coming down on that neck as you try and shove it up and over that expander ball and all that, and I de cap everything Separate on a universal decapper anyhow. Interesting little deal reading has with knurled end here. Slips right in the case since it's smaller then the expander ball but still can see something possibly getting hung up
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And just our if curiosity wants to see what the difference would be in one that that formed with the pin vs if I used the pin after forming annnnd noting noticablehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240115/f045cd3678608db66efa4020220f3c0b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240115/4d23e062f9126aef9392d872a34c54fe.jpg
And here's a pic of the whole build. Only think I'm missing is the dust cover which I just keep forgetting to get ordered lol.nwanna get a funny custom on though. But yeah just ripped the bcg out of my .223 while spr build and slapped it in its lower because that lower is so nice to shoot with the wide trigger and the luth mba fully adjustable stock
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[Wolfdog91]

So loaded up some of the 20gr vmax's per KAK's load data. Did go and check my shoulder bumps and all that and everything chambers super easy via me pushing ithe bcg in with my thumb.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240115/db7b3eea6cfa0734729c07e9008d3d2a.jpg
Using CFE .223.... because it was the cheapest thing they had in the self that KAK had on there load data lol
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Will say.....I remeber why I don't like this bally flaky type powder very much , good ole statics gonna get one of them face metal set one day. Though it's pretty easy to fix this just tap the bottom of the car if the table and it all goes in
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Ten rounds for initial " will this blow up in my face " and getting on target. Think these are supposed to be at 3800 something fps. And that's a starting load.[emoji2962]
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[Wolfdog91]

Good little bit of mag space as well to play with but apparently.17cals like to be jumped apparently so we will see. I usually do every thing custom but I wanna test KAK's claims of this being simple and easy to get to work
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[Wolfdog91]

Okie dokie got to do some shooting! New did make one or two little little mistakes involving trimming but after pulling some bullets got that fixed.

So the set up ( for the first then shots, more and more I'm just not enjoying shooting off of a front rest , idk just not my thing)
Prone , Caldwell rock BR front rest , magneto speed bayonet Chronograph. My heavy leather rear bag, 63 degrees out no wind
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240115/2658664667ce1a462f2d239073fe6f1e.jpg

So first ten rounds didn't want to read or where reading some crazy numbers but j bore sighted and sent the first five in @50yd to make sure I was on paper. Also worked as a function test
And some screen shots I took in order of the first shot breaking
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So looking like a out 2 o'clock ejection with means a few things according to this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240115/194b62ef5c068480bb15ff24963fc4ff.jpg

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[Wolfdog91]

Might play with something down the line but idk over gasses AR's are apparently not uncommon at all , might give her and adjustable gas block down the line. Also gotta say, this thing has like no recoil and I think I might start going the thread protector route.
Anyhow everything functioned perfect. 100yd group was ..meh but very rarely I've had a beginning load start great. Also might have just been me trying to get on a new build
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Now the next loads shot better but started getting some problems , honestly the only problem I had with the 26gr load was the rounds weren't picking up from the mag. Walked inside switched mags problem solved. Was still having issues with the economy picking up these little bullets so only two sensible velocities
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Now according to KAK's load data 26.3 gr is supposed to be the optimal load ( also the top end load for the powder bullet combo) this was where j was getting problems though. The main on being two of these.
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Now at first I wasn't sure what to think . Did the whole SPORTS thing , drop the mag ,yadda yadda , and nother the bcg just would not grab the case, weird, well went inside grabbed a cleaning rod and a little tap tap and it came right out. But ....
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Believe it or not but I think this is the first time I've had this happen to me in reloading , so very interesting experience . But easy fix . That happened twice but only on this load so ..neat
[emoji848]anyhow shot pretty decent. A adjusted the scope too low on the first shot and hit below the target hence only 4th
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[Wolfdog91]

back at the bench not what I have fire formed brass I can finally look at some stuff I need
Left if freshly formed the right is fire formed
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And some head space measurement. Again I Formed this brass per the companies instructions
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Vs fire formed
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So yeaaahhh I've been bumping these back a whole 0.008 vs... you know like the 0.003 I really need

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[Wolfdog91]

So did some seating depth testing. Seated them a bit long and went back to 26.0 GR of CFE .223 . Also for craps and giggles threw that chicom scope on and gotta say, other then the really short eye relief, ITS NOT BAD !
Next to one of my 5.56 loads
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And today's set up
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I kept the same powder chard though all of these .....really not liking that S-D but hay
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And the target the group on the right was some brass that was kinda messed up and I was trying to see if I could fireform it out.
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As usual I understand up dripping one out the group.

But yeah heres 50 rd of brass , the one s with the primers up are the ones with messed up whatever
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O and look what came in the mail !
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[Wolfdog91]

So spend a few hours today freezing my butt of messing with these 25gr's and BLC-2 . Using .17-223 load data from hodgdons website and .....egh. better SD but lower velocity and the groups where...meh , like 1.5
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Wanted to hunt a little to night so went and loaded up more 20gainers over 26gr of CFE .223 and got the NV hooked up


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Word of advice double check with one **** zero deal always works pretty good but usually needs a little tweak one way or another

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[danmat]

I like it!!!
When I was young I spent my money on Wine, Women, Song & Guns, wasted the rest.
Dan

[rintinglen]

The worst copper fouling I ever saw was in the barrel of a 17 Remington model 700 back around 1979. My buddy Warren bought one and in less than 200 rounds he had a mess. In those days, 17 caliber cleaning rods were scarce and brushes hard to come by. Plugged the bore and filled it with Hoppe's No.9 and let it set over night, with little or no effect. We wore out a couple of brushes scrubbing copper out, took forever to to get a clean patch. I decided to stay with my .222. I will say that 17 when clean would shoot well and would blow up a ground squirrel at 150 yards or less.

[725]

Very interesting report. Keep 'em coming!

[Wolfdog91]

Hell no luck night hunting , cold had them locked up ,southern critters in cold snaps just don't seem to move much during , before and after yes during the whole 2-4 days it's frozen up, nah.
Tried some day time stands. Find a perfect setup aannnnnd my battery died
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Got to stalk up on this little guy and take some pics though, seen more of them this year then ever before
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[Wolfdog91]

So decided to give annealing a try
Now just to be clear why I didnt to begin with. KAK has stated that they made this up to be a simple deal for gus wanting to get into a .17cal centerfire. In their videos they stated all you need to do to convert brass is a single run into the resizing die. I wanted to test those claims. If I just went and ran buckwild on some more advanced stuff then what would just kinda nullify that . It's like if I company said their after market engine will fit perfectly in a car but before you even tired to test fit you start cutting out the engine bay to make room or something. If that makes sense . Now according to them you want once fired brass because it's work hardened for initial forming. They said they initially tried annealing their brass but it resulted in too many crushed necks due to the soft annealed brass collapsing. And I can post a link to the video where they explain this if anyone wants.

Ok anyhow the test. Not the most scientific, took 20rd of brass from the same bag I've been working with. It's all been de capped cleaned ect . All same head stamp 23 Lake city 5.56. Made sure to chey they all had good looking case mouth and the like.
As far as the annealing just some Podunk flame change annealing with a 3/8's deep socket on a drill and a propane and torch. Angle isn't the best but trying to hit just that neck shoulder junction like your supposed to. Would have used my 750 tempilaq but I couldn't open the jar at all, and flame change always seems to work decent.
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So our if the 20 , ten where annealed ten where not .
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Interesting enough all the annealed ones seemed to have this same mark/pattern on them
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So the it's the same as it's always been since I stared this . No de capping die, shoulder getting bumped back to 1.450". Hand lubing each one individually with imperial sizing wax

So our if the ten in annealed ones I got one crush
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And the annealed ..... Well
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All ten annealed ones where crushed , not one properly converted case....so yeahhhh, look like KAK was right with this one lol. Will be ordering a .20 cal due soon though as a step die.just gotta see what will work best , looking at possibly a .204 Ruger die or a .20 practical. Well see


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[dverna]

Good test Wolf. Proves the point.

Your "podunk" anneal system is fine. Don't think that was the issue.

[Wolfdog91]

So got called and told my boat is still in the ship yard and I don't have to leave out for a bit longer so since most every thing else is done figured I'd play with some loads again would go out an try and make a stand but I'm at like 15-0 so egh.
Anyhow after reading alot about 17-.223 most people got that data from .17 rem data. Wanted to try and use some kinda stick powder to hopefully get some better S-D's I don't like big velocity differences. So was trying to avoid .17 rem data since the cases are a bit different. Was able to find some 17-223 data on hodgdons webs site. They have a online reloading data base deal . They had some for 4895 which I just so happen to have picked up a can a few months back
Not going to lie , a lot of the time with cast I'll just kinda say yolo and try something off the books if it follows a few parameters but when I'm running this fast ....yeaaaahhh no.
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I went ahead and went a bit hight then starting just because those loads always run slower in a gas gun and these 17's don't seem to like goin slow.

Trying the 25's again because I now have 3 100rd boxes of them now that all my orders arrived. These are a it longs so figured I'd try doing some seating with them. Found the same point and backed off 0.004" they go in easy and no movement from being mag loaded.
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I do need to get some new low capacity mags , these two 20rd I have are mostly plastic and are wearing out . Don't wanna hold the bold open on the last round out. My metal 30rd will but I hate walking around with those things in the gun .
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[Wolfdog91]

Same set up as the last few days same brass ejection.
And the targets , bit better then the last bunch of 25gr loads. That 4895 going some good velocities but the group are a bit meh.
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[MarkP]

Take the expander ball out of the die when forming the case. Trim and square up the mouth, anneal the neck and run it thru the die with the expander ball in place. I have 17 Hornets and a 17-222 and have made several hundred this way.

[Wolfdog91]

Take the expander ball out of the die when forming the case. Trim and square up the mouth, anneal the neck and run it thru the die with the expander ball in place. I have 17 Hornets and a 17-222 and have made several hundred this way.

Well I dont form with the decapping pin in any more , stop after about the first 40-50 cases . And wait are you saying form, trim. Anneal.....then back into the die ? Why not just form , fire form then anneal ? Because I showed annealing= 99% crushed caes without the decapping pin and expander so..... With it even after it's formed mmm
That long with the case mouths being the same with or with the pin and ball...other then knocking out the primer , at least for initial forming I don't see much of a point past " that's what your "supposed" to do "