The First Earth Age, The Rebellion, The Flood

[Good Cheer]

This morning I was captivated for lack of a better word to read this little article.:happy dance:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12708099/worlds-oldest-pyramid-Gunung-Padang-Indonesia-three-times-older-Stonehenge-Egyptian-pyramids-Giza.html
As our knowledge of the past is allowed to increase, unavoidably it will assist us in better understanding of scripture. If anyone has data to post related to mainstream academia's latest admissions to revising the dates on mankind's history, please, have at it!

Seeing some of the results from excavations in Turkey and other places over the last few years has been down right thrilling.

[ioon44]

:popcorn:

[MUSTANG]

Pay wall - can't read.

[.429&H110]

When I was knocked on the head by the Holy Spirit, repented, reformed, reborn, I was very unchurched. As a youth I rejected all of the Calvinist Puritan Congregational Country Club Church goers, mainly because they rejected me.

So I took my lamp in hand, very skeptically, went looking, asking what the "Truth Project" asks:
"Is what I believe really real?"
I dug out a lot of rabbit holes, a Jesuit told me that God doesn't work like that.
Oh, well, so much for Jesuits...is what they believe really real?
Yes, indeed the Bible is our Owner's Manual.

My main proof for Noah's Flood is Jesus believed it. That settles it.
For us to believe in the Flood, we have to admit the miraculous, and some do balk at miraculous, people need a cause and effect system that does not upset reason. Miraculous seems unreasonable these days. God is the Uncaused Cause. He Is.

I have studied my Bible with people who are convinced the earth was created on a Sunday 4006BC and humor me when I suggest that is isogeny. I have seen the back and forth of "Answers in Genesis". I took a picture of the Grand Canyon, mile wide mile deep, old or new? The only fact I can add to this discussion is that radiocarbon dating is inaccurate. We take a sample and say gee golly, caveman had a fire. Man has a profound desire to see what he wants to see. Evil has a need to deny truth.

Ever since I got a starved old chihuahua from the dog pound, I have studied an eight pound dog, remarkably healthy and long-lived. Chico is unrelated to any Old World dog or any of the Siberian dogs. How did a tiny dog breed true in the middle of Mexico?

[Fitz]

Amen

[Good Cheer]

The last couple of weeks there's been a flurry of articles from the infotainment industry about Noah's ark possibly being found. Aren't they looking at the same thing Ron Wyatt published on years and years ago?

Looking forward to any published results rather than fluff.

[Muser]

Be of Good Cheer!
Yes definately, for what is actually true that they come out with.

Depending upon what the truth is concerning Gen.6:4 (unlikely we'll ever know), all of this alien tripe may actually be social engineering/ preparation for a future plan of the Adversary.
There are at least two ways the "alien thing" could be utilized against the world.

[Winger Ed.]

The more we discover and learn about ancient civilizations, and the events in the earth's history,
the more things in the Bible that are found to be true historical accounts.

Something I've always found interesting is when dating these old structures like this one thought to be 16,000 years old.
We're led to believe that's how old their civilization is- as if they climbed down out of trees and built them the next day or so.

There is no mention or guessing of how long it took those people to learn how to build these things that are
architectural marvels of design and construction.
Or, how long it took to develop the society, tools, and skills to do it with.
Building huge stone building is not done by nomadic hunter/gatherer people.
It's done by a stable, organized society that permanently lives on location, and can feed itself.

Not to mention, these structures are not one off things. They're similar, and all over the world.
Right around the time of the great flood--- they pretty much all stopped building them at the same time.

[Good Cheer]

Yeah, funny how that worked.

[Good Cheer]

Be of Good Cheer!
Yes definately, for what is actually true that they come out with.

Depending upon what the truth is concerning Gen.6:4 (unlikely we'll ever know), all of this alien tripe may actually be social engineering/ preparation for a future plan of the Adversary.
There are at least two ways the "alien thing" could be utilized against the world.

You know, something I'm really sure of is that this game is rigged and the voyage was made five months for us to learn from.

[Gobeyond]

www.undeniable biblical proof.com . 2028 end. The prophetic creation week. And a book

www.10lovecommandments.com.

I know how you all love to do your research.

[Good Cheer]

People definitely do need to do their own research.

[wv109323]

God can create an acorn, God can create an oak seedling, God can create an oak sampling and God can create an oak tree that stands 100 ft. tall.
Man would say the acorn is months old, the seedling a year or two, the sampling maybe ten years old and the 100 ft. oak tree 90 years old. But God can create any and all in milliseconds.
No where can I find in the Bible that God created by the laws we now have in society. God did not have to create the earth and all things in it by our present laws of thermodynamics. laws of science, laws of nature or mathematics.
In matter of fact creation itself is making something out of nothing which is impossible by human standards.
So to believe in creation, Garden of Eden, Jonah being swallowed by a whale, the flood, the virgin birth, Jesus's resurrection and the Second Coming, I must have faith in God and believe the Bible and ignore the bablings of man.

[popper]

Interesting article about Tower of Babel. Supposedly Noah's great-great grandson was a warrior chief who defended Babylon, ordered building more of the 'tower'. Name was Ba and he declared to be a god so name of the tower was Ba'El. Nordics took their dead into fields for animals to strip bodies of flesh to avoid disease, then placed bones in piles inside dome rock structures they built. Many linguists believe written language began in the Caspian area and the people then moved south out of the cold weather. Many think Abram actually came from headwaters of the Euphrates to Ur in the Turkey area where he stayed a while. The 'proclaimed' Ur was way south and thought to just be a ceremonial town like the Valley of the Kings.
Creation Museum and Noah's ark museums don't really speak much of the ice age that we know did happen.
The braniac guy mathematically proved that our creation started at a point source (big bang) but said we came through a worm hole from another universe. Couldn't say what created the 'other' universe.
We really have nothing but conjectures but they are interesting.

[Thundarstick]

https://youtu.be/882fmumdm9A?si=mSXG4EjqRuh7s871

Interesting geological evidence.

[Good Cheer]

Be of Good Cheer!
Yes definately, for what is actually true that they come out with.

Depending upon what the truth is concerning Gen.6:4 (unlikely we'll ever know), all of this alien tripe may actually be social engineering/ preparation for a future plan of the Adversary.
There are at least two ways the "alien thing" could be utilized against the world.

Oh hey by the way and concerning the things flying around the planet, did you ever read I. D. E. Thomas' book The Omega Conspiracy? He was way out in front of the pack in examining them from a scriptural perspective. Dr. David Jacobs is another author that interested me in that he has examined it from a non-scriptural and specifically secular angle, looking at the same things but with a hands on approach. Fascinating stuff and prophecy wise it would seem right on time.

[.429&H110]

My woodlot in NH... not my woodlot anymore, but anyway:
on a pile of sand next to a brook as a kid I played on a glacial erratic as big as a dump truck
The rock is blue granite, worn smooth, round like it rolled there, about three feet off the ground has a ledge in it for a natural fireplace and my uncle sifted the surrounds for pottery and arrowheads. Made a fine Boy Scout campsite, but after dark was a little spooky. Two hundred feet away, my dad drilled a well and had to case 300 feet of gravel before he hit bedrock. There are other erratics around there, scour holes in the cliffs over the lake where some river was hundreds of feet above the lake. Surely is a lot of sand, to wash all the way down to make Cape Cod. But all this is geologically new from the Ice Age they say 12000 years ago.

The way the young earth was explained to me, God made the earth sphere smooth. Perfect. Adam lived in a warm spot; the ends of the earth were piled with ice. Didn't rain, so the frost piled up. OK. There were a lot of evil nephilim and whatever they live in, having a gory evil time playing fetch with dinosaurs, animals they might have corrupted. So the Book says. Then God flooded the earth, took the earth between His Hands and twisted it, squashed the stinkers if they didn't drown. Raised a seabed to the top of Everest in an afternoon. Denali is still growing a couple inches a year. The ground is still opening under Turkey. And we ran out of oil in 1980.

Watched a three part series of scientism on PBS... NOVA... and their theory seems farfetched.
I need a good believable account of how the Moon got there.
If the earth was molten, where did all the water come from?
I don't know for sure how this all happened, but the idolatry of scientism is to rationally deny God.
They want me to worship the Created.
I just don't have any faith in them.

[Muser]

Good Cheer, yes I have a 2008 copy of The Omega Conspiracy, whose pages are now yellowed like many books on my shelves.
Its an excellent book on these subjects, and helped me develop my opinions regarding to them.
I have recommended it over the years.
When I said in #7 above, "all of this alien tripe may actually be social engineering/ preparation for a future plan of the Adversary.
There are at least two ways the "alien thing" could be utilized against the world."
I was alluding to:
- Satan's use of "flying saucers" and benevolent aliens being used at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture, ostensibly to remove humans from the Earth that are preventing the rest of humanity from making their quantum leap into the next level of "greater consciousness".
- if as I stated above, Gen.6:1-4 is truly about fallen angels taking physical forms and having sex with daughters of men: I can see Satan using that method again these many generations later to try to thwart God's plan with man by fully polluting, making God's creation of mankind impure.

I can see either or both of these occurring.

If you, or anyone here is interested in reading a book written by christian astrophysicists/ scientists about the impossibilities of physical aliens traveling through space to arrive here, I highly recommend the book - Lights In the Sky And Little Green Men.
Its been out for some years now and is available online.

I have a number of books by one of its authors Dr. Hugh Ross, that show the many reasons this universe had to be created by an intelligent designer. His books deal with scientific facts that disprove blind, random, evolutionary processes.
He is an Old Earth adherent, as am I at this point.

.429- Hang in there. Your right.
Here's a quote from the book Good Cheer just asked me about, The Omega Conspiracy- "Satan wants to eliminate faith from the Earth."
And after we baby-boomers have all died, this world will need a massive revival to counter the tidal wave of evil coming upon us.

[Good Cheer]

Hey good morning Muser.
My understanding:There was a time on Earth before before the rebellion. Then the rebellion occurred, then the planet was wiped and then came this Adamic age.

Thank you for the reference to Lights In the Sky And Little Green Men. If I come across an affordably priced copy I'll add it to the shelves.

[Muser]

Good morning brother, your welcome.
What your describing I know as the Gap Theory.
Yes, there could be any number of unknowns that themselves destroyed the Earth, or caused God to do so.
But the fall of Satan is principally considered to be the top of the list.

During Covid I discovered a book that deals extremely well with this subject, in my opinion.

Its Peril In Paradise, subtitled Theology, Science, and the Age of the Earth, by Mark S. Whorton PhD. His doctorate is in aerospace engineering. He is a NASA rocket scientist.
From the back cover- "As an internationally recognized expert in the control of space structures and the principal investigator for an international Space Station experiment, Dr. Whorton has received many professional honors.
"... he has been active in leading the formation of local chapters for the Reasons To believe Ministry..."
**sidenote - This is Dr. Hugh Ross' ministry, who I previously mentioned co-wrote Lights In the Sky and Little Green men.
Dr. Ross' book Creation And Time, presents scientific facts that in themselves refute all possibility of an evolutionary process being the "First Cause" for the universe.

I love Dr. Whorton's dedication to the book- "For thinking believers and believing thinkers"
The assumed problem with the Gap Theory is the same for the Old Earth theory, namely that of suffering and death occurring on Earth before Adam's fall.
According to Dr. Whorton there is no problem, rather a misguided assumption regarding the purpose of creation and the Holy words of God's pronunciations of "very good" and their meaning.
I also give my highest recommendation for this book.

[Good Cheer]

The purpose for this creation (and these meat suits) does seem to puzzle people.

[Muser]

Yes, the more I learn of God and His master plan, the more I stand in awe of Him.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Quote Muser:

''.429- Hang in there. Your right.
Here's a quote from the book Good Cheer just asked me about, The Omega Conspiracy- "Satan wants to eliminate faith from the Earth."
And after we baby-boomers have all died, this world will need a massive revival to counter the tidal wave of evil coming upon us."

True, in my life I've observed the decline of society as a whole and all but the erasure of what we once found common, ''neighborly love''.

[Thundarstick]

When reading these threads, I find it disappointing how American Christians seem to think the only Christians in the world live here. :-? Fact is Christianity is growing by leaps and bounds in the Southern hemisphere. If things keep progressing as they currently are, it's estimated that 60%of China will be Christian in the next 25-30 years. Africa already has more Christians in church on Sunday morning than in all the Northern Hemisphere countries. The Church in Russia didn't wither and die under communism, those Christians remained faithful, and the church came back stronger than ever.

Reminds me of a song we sing, "Christ for the World", but it seems the only Christians we deem worthy are American.

The Church IS going to be OK!

[Good Cheer]

Thundarstick, why do you think American Christians seem to think the only Christians in the world live here?

[.429&H110]

A new soul was getting tour of heaven by St Peter, admiring all the mansions.
At one point, they took off their shoes and St Pete whispered:
We have to be really quiet, these are the Baptists, they think they are alone here.

If we can't laugh at ourselves we have to listen to people laughing at us.
Where's your joy?

I am sure the only Way is Jesus, but I am looking through a glass darkly. One day I will know.

What is with all the little green men? On X-Files, they are grey.
If there were aliens I would have seen one by now. Evil though, I have met.
X-Files had lizard people, now people believe in lizard people.
If life on earth came from elsewhere, how did it start, elsewhere?
Or should we believe in goo?

[Thundarstick]

Thundarstick, why do you think American Christians seem to think the only Christians in the world live here?

It's obvious.

[Good Cheer]

Not to me. I don't know what's in your head.

[ioon44]

Back to the original post.

I have ordered this and watched some of the videos about the book, a lot of interesting points to consider.

https://www.skywatchtvstore.com/collections/featured-products/products/before-genesis-master-collection

[Muser]

I'm not sure what you are talking about Thundarstick, I've been from everywhere to a small, dirt poor village in the wilderness mountain region of Guatemala with no water well, to poor communities on the outskirts of Kiev where the people live in old communist era concrete tenement apartment buildings that are more than a half-mile long.
In both Guatemala, and Kiev you have to watch what you say in public.
The protestant church was strong in Ukraine, but the Catholic church in Guatemala at that time seemed to have little influence with the teens I saw and talked to there.

You are right in one sense, according to my pastor friends, the war in Ukraine has been helping those poor folks searching for answers and meaning to it all.
I have bath lay, and pastor friends in Ukraine who have all been actively assisting with clothes, food, and medicines getting distributed throughout Ukraine to the many needy at great risk to themselves.
I mean they were wearing bullet-proof vests while driving delivery vans.

[Good Cheer]

About the rebellion, we're told it happened, letting us have that bit of background explanation on why the Earth became void and without form. Scripture lets us know where the adversary came from, it's motivations and even how it operates. That's really about it isn't it, giving us the information we need at our level?

[Good Cheer]

So who is arranging the tech transfers with all these crashes? That's a no brainer.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12796167/CIA-secret-office-UFO-retrieval-missions-whistleblowers.html

[Good Cheer]

As relating to the ages on this planet since it was reformed...
Watched a presentation the other day that showed people were in the central parts South America 27,000 years ago.
And that the archaeologists have been able to trace them migrating northwards into Mexico.

Decades ago I found a book in the small town library nearest us that recorded various archaeological anomalies, things that just didn't fit the establishment accepted paradigm and therefore got shoved off into oblivion because no one who valued their grants would dare touch them. One of those anomalies was an elephant whose tusks had gold bumper balls installed on the ends, found under a layer of volcanic ash in a valley of Mexico. Since then I've read of archaeologists who were attacked by their establishment peers and had their careers destroyed for daring to tell the truth about findings in Mexico. So golly, why do the high and mighty feel oh so threatened by truth?

[ioon44]

"So golly, why do the high and mighty feel oh so threatened by truth"


Because it might lead to " Gasp" Biblical truth.

[cricco]

Read the Apocrypha. Start with Enoch, Jubilees, and Giants. Space is a lie. The earth IS flat. Stars are NOT what you've been told. Scoff all you want, but i can explain a lot of it.

[ioon44]

The Earth is not flat, if it were flat then Cats would have pushed everything off the edge long ago.

[farmbif]

I won't touch most of this with ten foot pole. but "the flood". I think we can all agree there was an Ice age and there was lots of very thick, miles?, ice covering what is now Canada and northern US, on this continent and that the miles thick ice is not here now. what happened. it melted. and I'm sure when it melted there were some big time floods. and one of the big flood events was written down from passed on oral history and is forever now in the religious books of the worlds religions. but of course back when the floods happened only god and the angels had a Birds Eye view of his master plan in action

[Winger Ed.]

The Earth is not flat, if it were flat then Cats would have pushed everything off the edge long ago.

Of course the earth is flat.
Just lay any map out on a table and you can prove it for yourself.

[YoungGun88]

The Earth is not flat, if it were flat then Cats would have pushed everything off the edge long ago.

:lol::lol::lol:

[YoungGun88]

I remember reading about a wooly mammoth that was discovered in Russia, it was entrapped in ice and was only “discovered” because as the ice melted, a foot or other appendage became exposed. Anyhow, the researchers who dug it out found that it was basically “blast frozen” so fast that there was green foliage found in its mouth and digestive tract, not digested yet. They marveled at how beautiful it was as a specimen, but the secondary scientific marvel was how it proved that nature can change VERY rapidly.

Sedimentary layers are a beautiful example of the power and magnificent forces that water in sufficient volume and duration of flow can move literal mountains in very short amounts of time. I’ve read some scientific speculators that argue the majority of the Grand Canyon and other major valleys could be carved out in mere hours, or less. When you factor in the Bible referencing water springing forth from the depths, not just rain from the sky, the earth could really get rattled quickly.

[Good Cheer]

Today even with the planet being 70% covered only a small fraction of the water is on the surface so yeah, when the fountains broke open a lot of water became available to cover the remaining exposed ground, however much that was back then. Rattled is probably a pretty good term for it, about like a jingle bell on a harness!

[dverna]

I remember reading about a wooly mammoth that was discovered in Russia, it was entrapped in ice and was only “discovered” because as the ice melted, a foot or other appendage became exposed. Anyhow, the researchers who dug it out found that it was basically “blast frozen” so fast that there was green foliage found in its mouth and digestive tract, not digested yet. They marveled at how beautiful it was as a specimen, but the secondary scientific marvel was how it proved that nature can change VERY rapidly.

Sedimentary layers are a beautiful example of the power and magnificent forces that water in sufficient volume and duration of flow can move literal mountains in very short amounts of time. I’ve read some scientific speculators that argue the majority of the Grand Canyon and other major valleys could be carved out in mere hours, or less. When you factor in the Bible referencing water springing forth from the depths, not just rain from the sky, the earth could really get rattled quickly.

And yet, a 3000 psi stream from a pressure washer can sometimes struggle removing dust from my vehicle unless I soap and scrub it. Need to get me some holy water.

Anyway, I have seen the Grand Canyon, and if someone believes it can be made in "mere hours or less", they are a special kind of stupid. Ideas like that make some Christians look like fools.

[Good Cheer]

And yet, a 3000 psi stream from a pressure washer can sometimes struggle removing dust from my vehicle unless I soap and scrub it. Need to get me some holy water.

Anyway, I have seen the Grand Canyon, and if someone believes it can be made in "mere hours or less", they are a special kind of stupid. Ideas like that make some Christians look like fools.

How could someone be foolish enough to think the geologists are Christians?

[Thundarstick]

I've posted this link before. If you've never watched this hour and half explication of the geology of the great flood you've missed something. Athiest scientist don't even question that the earth's magnetic poles have flipped in the past, that plate tectonics are a thing, or that in the beginning all the land mass was pangea.

https://youtu.be/882fmumdm9A?si=4v2BVcva-Ou2kwFb

Yes the Grand Canyon could be formed in a matter of hours. Where I live during 1811,1812 the ground was turned to jello, sand rose up from the depths, a new natural lake was formed, and the Mississippi River flowed backwards. Things most would think impossible happened in a very short order, and this is in recorded history.

[.429&H110]

The Grand Canyon is used as proof by both young and old earthers.
All we see depends on how we look at it, how we interpret geology, how we make theories.
We sit on opposite sides of that milewide arroyo and do not hear what the other side says,
voices lost in the wind, each convinced he is right.

You have to believe in the Miraculous, that "...God repented...", that God changed the earth.
He even told us Why. And left us the rainbow.
Only God can operate without cause and effect, Miraculously. He Is cause and effect.
There is a bigger Grand Canyon on Mars. I wonder why He Did that.

The Truth can be found by looking in a hole,
but that hole is an Empty Tomb, not the Grand Canyon.

[Alabama358]

- if as I stated above, Gen.6:1-4 is truly about fallen angels taking physical forms and having sex with daughters of men: I can see Satan using that method again these many generations later to try to thwart God's plan with man by fully polluting, making God's creation of mankind impure.

I can see either or both of these occurring.


Muser...

Couple questions about the whole demons (fallen Angels) taking on physical forms and breeding with humans...

1- Did these demons that were "having sex" with humans, so they could have Hybrid humans do so with GOD's blessing?

2- What part of the below scripture can one translate into Demons having sex with humans to get a hybrid species? Is it the Giants part?

Genesis 6: 1-4
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

[.429&H110]

Well...
God did not make giants, and the sons of god weren't demons, until they rebelled.
An idea, not scriptural, but speculative, is the nephalim bred with animals, make chimeras.
Centaurs, medusa, t-rex, werewolves, but God wanted His animals "...by their kind" on the ark.

We have a taboo, Biblical, against sex with animals.

I believe the Nephalim drowned, and their spirits remained on earth as their souls went to hell.
So we get possession as a ready mind allows evil to inhabit, inviting that ancient spirit home.
And Jesus made us proof against evil, we can send that demon on by prayer and fasting.
Makes Halloween seem even more evil... and Disney's dwarfs, mermaids and dancing mice.

One of my Proofs of God
is the abundant evil that escaped the Flood.
So how do we tell the difference? The Book.

[elmacgyver0]

And yet, a 3000 psi stream from a pressure washer can sometimes struggle removing dust from my vehicle unless I soap and scrub it. Need to get me some holy water.

Anyway, I have seen the Grand Canyon, and if someone believes it can be made in "mere hours or less", they are a special kind of stupid. Ideas like that make some Christians look like fools.

Perhaps their God is too small.

[Alabama358]

Well...
God did not make giants, and the sons of god weren't demons, until they rebelled.
An idea, not scriptural, but speculative, is the nephalim bred with animals, make chimeras.
Centaurs, medusa, t-rex, werewolves, but God wanted His animals "...by their kind" on the ark.

We have a taboo, Biblical, against sex with animals.

I believe the Nephalim drowned, and their spirits remained on earth as their souls went to hell.
So we get possession as a ready mind allows evil to inhabit, inviting that ancient spirit home.
And Jesus made us proof against evil, we can send that demon on by prayer and fasting.
Makes Halloween seem even more evil... and Disney's dwarfs, mermaids and dancing mice.

One of my Proofs of God
is the abundant evil that escaped the Flood.
So how do we tell the difference? The Book.

With All due respect....
None of that had any scriptural basis and is nothing more then fables created by men trying to be a little more clever then their fellows.

And point of fact, if indeed there were Giants (and I think there were, because it is in the book) and God did not make them... who was their creator?

[.429&H110]

Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubillees is the source of Nephalim-Raphalim speculation. And I admit it is speculation. Did the giant gene float on the Ark in Ham's wife? Is that gene why the Lord directed genocide against those tribes? Is Genesis real?

I subscribe to the tablet theory, Moses opened Joseph's tomb to cart Joseph to the promised land. Moses had to ask God who He was, so Moses had no copy of Genesis. In Joseph's tomb, Moses found about a ton of tablets, too heavy to carry, which Moses transcribed. The first tablet was written by God Himself, Genesis One and Two, then Adam takes up the stylus, wrote for a few centuries. God can write? Of course He can, and did, and so taught Adam, so we would never forget who made us. Who else wrote about Noah, than Noah himself? Miraculous that any of this survived.

Textual criticism dates Pentateuch as a book to 300ishBC but that is when it was collected, edited, transcribed, canonized. Some of the story was lost, but the whole stands as a history. The children of Israel were concerned mostly with prophesy, geneologies and obsessed with the Law. They wrote everything down. We are digging up old old tablets we can read that are tax records, vital stuff that they kept like we do. So what do we do with the book of Enoch?

[Good Cheer]

Enoch? Get a copy and read it.

[ioon44]

If you want to study the book of Enoch, I recommend this from Dr. Michael Heiser

https://www.skywatchtvstore.com/collections/featured-products/products/the-companion-to-the-book-of-enoch-special-collection-1

[Good Cheer]

Dr. Heiser was a national treasure. I miss him and was looking forwards to more of his works but you know what? Sometimes I think people are taken home because perhaps as people who are aborted, maybe they don't need to be here longer. Oh well, he is missed.

[ioon44]

Always leads me to.
Job 1:21
King James Version
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

[.429&H110]

Amen to Job!
My dad would recite long pieces of Job from memory
"...and where were you...?"

[Alabama358]

Staying within the covers of the Bible... who are the sons of God?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1 John 3:1-2
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Philippians 2:14-15
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;


Who is NOT the sons of God?

Hebrews 1:4-5
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

So according to the bible... The sons of God are saved-justified-men of God and not demons that took on flesh and made mutant humans... in fact Hebrews says that angels have never at any time been called the sons of God

It is possible that Genesis 6 is stating that the Holy Men of God (sons of God) took wives of heathen because they were fair (attractive) and bare children that became mighty men. Leading to generations of Wicked Ungodly men that even competed with the Giants of the day until every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually...
I know this interpretation isn't as flashy or sexy as the Hollywood X-files version but it stays within the Word

Genesis 6: 1-5
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

[ioon44]

sons of God


https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/gen/6/2/p0/t_conc_6002

[Alabama358]

Always leads me to.
Job 1:21
King James Version
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

Job was the example that I was thinking of when I ask Muser if he thought God gave his blessing for the whole demons taking on flesh and corrupting God's creation of man.

If Satan, the top demon had to get God's permission to harass Job... then it would be a leap to think that his underlings could take on flesh and build a mutant army of evil by injecting their DNA in to a woman's womb. (Angels are spirit beings, so I am not sure they even have DNA)


Job 2:3-7
3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

[ioon44]

"then it would be a leap to think that his underlings could take on flesh and build a mutant army of evil by injecting their DNA in to a woman's womb. (Angels are spirit beings, so I am not sure they even have DNA)"

See Gen 3:15

there are several events where Angles appeared in human form and physically interacted with men.

[Alabama358]

"then it would be a leap to think that his underlings could take on flesh and build a mutant army of evil by injecting their DNA in to a woman's womb. (Angels are spirit beings, so I am not sure they even have DNA)"

See Gen 3:15

there are several events where Angles appeared in human form and physically interacted with men.

Yes, I understand that there are plenty of examples such as the two Angels that pulled Lot and his kin folk out of Sodom... but capable of breading? I think that is a little out of their lane.

The main point I was trying to make was, if the Lord thought it was important enough to detail the events with Job and how Satan had to go get permission to torment him to try to get him to curse God.
It would stand to reason that a band of demons breading hybrid humans to overthrow the world causing God to destroy all but Noah and his with the great flood would have at least a Chapter or two of details and not left up to mans imagination.

[Good Cheer]

Dr. Michael Heiser did a good work in studying the matter and published much for us before going home.
https://i.imgur.com/F97z8KW.jpg

Thomas did a good job and published his work.
https://i.imgur.com/TiSRY2n.jpg

As did Alberino.
https://i.imgur.com/wLGL0Fi.jpg

People who examine scripture and have had the abilities granted them to help us understand are treasures to be esteemed.

[ioon44]

Yes, a really good study. So much of the Church try to ignore the Supernatural and rely on man's ideas and programs.

[Alabama358]

Dr. Michael Heiser did a good work in studying the matter and published much for us before going home.
https://i.imgur.com/F97z8KW.jpg

Thomas did a good job and published his work.
https://i.imgur.com/TiSRY2n.jpg

As did Alberino.
https://i.imgur.com/wLGL0Fi.jpg

People who examine scripture and have had the abilities granted them to help us understand are treasures to be esteemed.

2 Peter 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (You really do not need anyone to interpret scripture for you, that is always a recipe for dropping down rabbit holes)

John 14-26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (The Holy Ghost is the best fact checker and teacher)

1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (teachers, pastors, best selling authors can be insightful and sometimes encouraging... when they are preaching straight out of the book but all pale in comparison to the Holy Spirit.)

Cheer,
I enjoy your post and respect you as a brother in Christ and am certain that you know the above stated positions.

I turn to YouTube videos or best selling authors for entertainment but never to form a definitive opinion on doctrine. stated differently, if you had only 100 hours reading time left on this earth... how would you split up that time between the Bible and books written by men on their opinion on what the bible says?
Personally I would use 100% of the time reading the Bible and wouldn't waste 1 second on mans opinion on the matter.
With that being said, back to the subject at hand... what scripture would you point to with regards to fallen angels making babies with human woman... for or against?

[.429&H110]

Yes, indeed, modern religion ignores the Miraculous.
The Work of the Holy Spirit is Miraculous every day,
saving souls every day, reminding us of the Truth.

We get obsessed by cause and effect because we are stuck in the world.
Miraculous is dismissed, denied as luck, fate, co-incidence, or by a reasonable explanation.
For me, I am amazed by prayers answered.

[Thundarstick]

Miraculous is dismissed, denied as luck, fate, co-incidence, or by a reasonable explanation.
For me, I am amazed by prayers answered.

This deserves an AMEN!

God doing for us, what we can't do for ourselves!

[Good Cheer]

2 Peter 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (You really do not need anyone to interpret scripture for you, that is always a recipe for dropping down rabbit holes)

John 14-26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (The Holy Ghost is the best fact checker and teacher)

1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (teachers, pastors, best selling authors can be insightful and sometimes encouraging... when they are preaching straight out of the book but all pale in comparison to the Holy Spirit.)

Cheer,
I enjoy your post and respect you as a brother in Christ and am certain that you know the above stated positions.

I turn to YouTube videos or best selling authors for entertainment but never to form a definitive opinion on doctrine. stated differently, if you had only 100 hours reading time left on this earth... how would you split up that time between the Bible and books written by men on their opinion on what the bible says?
Personally I would use 100% of the time reading the Bible and wouldn't waste 1 second on mans opinion on the matter.
With that being said, back to the subject at hand... what scripture would you point to with regards to fallen angels making babies with human woman... for or against?

Firstly Genesis 6, settle in your mind who the sons of God are and take off on your studies from there. Have fun looking at the Emim, the Horim, the Zamzummim, Rephaim, the Anakim. Then once you admit into your own reality that the seed war is still in progress then well, it just is.

It appears there's misunderstanding in the minds of some about commentary resources. People who have devoted much time to the study of scripture (and with they themselves standing on the shoulders of previous scholars) know more than someone who sits with any one translation of scripture. And, any translation of scripture is itself a commentary and likely as not influenced by politics here and above. For anyone wanting to avoid being deceived it is incumbent upon them to dig deeply, to pay attention to the work of those who have gone before them, to seek acceptable translations, to examine the meanings of words and their root words, to pay attention to the subject and the object in sentences, to pay attention to the context of what was said at the time it was said and decide for themselves what to believe. What to believe not just about the text and the meaning of individual passages but what one is to believe about the whole body of knowledge. Including Enoch via Jude.

OK, that said...
I've found Bullinger's 1922 Edition of the 1611 with Appendices to be a wonderful study tool, right along with the Green's Hebrew-Greek-English Interlinear bible and the James Strong's (1822-1894) Exhaustive Concordance containing every occurrence of each word in order along with dictionaries of the original Hebrew Old Testament and Greek of the New Testament. Taken together those comprise an awesomely authoritative triumvirate and I'd advise anyone tackling the job of learning about the bible and checking on what teachers say to get those resources.

[Good Cheer]

Yes, indeed, modern religion ignores the Miraculous.
The Work of the Holy Spirit is Miraculous every day,
saving souls every day, reminding us of the Truth.

We get obsessed by cause and effect because we are stuck in the world.
Miraculous is dismissed, denied as luck, fate, co-incidence, or by a reasonable explanation.
For me, I am amazed by prayers answered.

Agreed sir. Seeing prayers answered is wonderful. Experiencing intervention is wonderful.

[Alabama358]

Firstly Genesis 6, settle in your mind who the sons of God are and take off on your studies from there. Have fun looking at the Emim, the Horim, the Zamzummim, Rephaim, the Anakim. Then once you admit into your own reality that the seed war is still in progress then well, it just is.(Who do you think the Sons of God are?)

It appears there's misunderstanding in the minds of some about commentary resources. People who have devoted much time to the study of scripture (and with they themselves standing on the shoulders of previous scholars) know more than someone who sits with any one translation of scripture. And, any translation of scripture is itself a commentary and likely as not influenced by politics here and above. For anyone wanting to avoid being deceived it is incumbent upon them to dig deeply, to pay attention to the work of those who have gone before them,(1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.) to seek acceptable translations, to examine the meanings of words and their root words, to pay attention to the subject and the object in sentences, to pay attention to the context of what was said at the time it was said and decide for themselves what to believe. What to believe not just about the text and the meaning of individual passages but what one is to believe about the whole body of knowledge. Including Enoch via Jude. (this seems to dispute 1 John 2:27? keep in mind... I am NOT anti-teachers or scholars... Actually one of the BEST quotes I have read on this forum was when you said that a Person can torture scripture into saying just about anything, or something to that effect)

OK, that said...
I've found Bullinger's 1922 Edition of the 1611 with Appendices to be a wonderful study tool, right along with the Green's Hebrew-Greek-English Interlinear bible and the James Strong's (1822-1894) Exhaustive Concordance containing every occurrence of each word in order along with dictionaries of the original Hebrew Old Testament and Greek of the New Testament. Taken together those comprise an awesomely authoritative triumvirate and I'd advise anyone tackling the job of learning about the bible and checking on what teachers say to get those resources.

That is an impressive list of books, but my question to you was...
"what scripture would you point to with regards to fallen angels making babies with human woman... for or against?"

If you would rather not or are not comfortable committing to a "for or against" position and share what specific scripture took you to that place. Just declare such, that would be fine... but listing off a very impressive list of books as your bona fides without specifics seems kinda of like a silly dodge.

[Good Cheer]

That is an impressive list of books, but my question to you was...
"what scripture would you point to with regards to fallen angels making babies with human woman... for or against?"

If you would rather not or are not comfortable committing to a "for or against" position and share what specific scripture took you to that place. Just declare such, that would be fine... but listing off a very impressive list of books as your bona fides without specifics seems kinda of like a silly dodge.

As said, Genesis 6. I didn't understand that you intended to inquire as to whether I was for or against something. What you wrote was a question as to a scriptural reference concerning the rebellious (fallen) making babies with women. That's why I gave you the answer of Genesis 6 with the advice to start there and then expand your studies. I think you'll find that once you decide who you are going to declare the sons of God to be then your path will be set and what you chose will determine how you read and comprehend various other parts of scripture. As for myself I understand that the rebellious sons of God came down to Earth and did create offspring with human women. And it was not a one time thing.
As for your demanding answers and calling a conversation a silly dodge... perhaps a mild laxative would help you.

[Alabama358]

As said, Genesis 6. I didn't understand that you intended to inquire as to whether I was for or against something. What you wrote was a question as to a scriptural reference concerning the rebellious (fallen) making babies with women. That's why I gave you the answer of Genesis 6 with the advice to start there and then expand your studies. I think you'll find that once you decide who you are going to declare the sons of God to be then your path will be set and what you chose will determine how you read and comprehend various other parts of scripture. As for myself I understand that the rebellious sons of God came down to Earth and did create offspring with human women. And it was not a one time thing.
As for your demanding answers and calling a conversation a silly dodge... perhaps a mild laxative would help you.

That last part was a bit weird and uncalled for...apparently I have offended you, that was not my intention.

With regards to Genesis 6, back on post #56 I gave my position with 4 different solid supporting scriptures (John 1:12, 1 John 3:1-2, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:14-15) that tells us what "the sons of God" is... Godly righteous men, NOT demonic fallen angels!

also one supporting scripture (Hebrews 1:4-5) That tells us what "the sons of God" is not... angels fallen or otherwise

I wasn't Demanding anything... I gave my position and supporting scripture on how I got there and was inquiring your position and what scripture got you there. Just a simple exchange of ideas with supporting scripture.

If my robust insensitive pursuit of ideas and supporting scripture came off as demanding or insulting... my apologies

Consider this...
Christ (God Almighty) while in flesh here on earth didn't teach or even mention demons procreating with human woman
Paul the Apostle (Hebrew of Hebrews, likely one of the most well studied man of his time) didn't teach or mention it

[Winger Ed.]

OK folks.

Keep in mind, the lock feature will work on this thread too.........

[Alabama358]

Copy That

[ioon44]

That last part was a bit weird and uncalled for...apparently I have offended you, that was not my intention.

With regards to Genesis 6, back on post #56 I gave my position with 4 different solid supporting scriptures (John 1:12, 1 John 3:1-2, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:14-15) that tells us what "the sons of God" is... Godly righteous men, NOT demonic fallen angels!

also one supporting scripture (Hebrews 1:4-5) That tells us what "the sons of God" is not... angels fallen or otherwise

I wasn't Demanding anything... I gave my position and supporting scripture on how I got there and was inquiring your position and what scripture got you there. Just a simple exchange of ideas with supporting scripture.

If my robust insensitive pursuit of ideas and supporting scripture came off as demanding or insulting... my apologies

Consider this...
Christ (God Almighty) while in flesh here on earth didn't teach or even mention demons procreating with human woman
Paul the Apostle (Hebrew of Hebrews, likely one of the most well studied man of his time) didn't teach or mention it

sons of God


https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002

[Good Cheer]

That last part was a bit weird and uncalled for...apparently I have offended you, that was not my intention.

With regards to Genesis 6, back on post #56 I gave my position with 4 different solid supporting scriptures (John 1:12, 1 John 3:1-2, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:14-15) that tells us what "the sons of God" is... Godly righteous men, NOT demonic fallen angels!

also one supporting scripture (Hebrews 1:4-5) That tells us what "the sons of God" is not... angels fallen or otherwise

I wasn't Demanding anything... I gave my position and supporting scripture on how I got there and was inquiring your position and what scripture got you there. Just a simple exchange of ideas with supporting scripture.

If my robust insensitive pursuit of ideas and supporting scripture came off as demanding or insulting... my apologies

Consider this...
Christ (God Almighty) while in flesh here on earth didn't teach or even mention demons procreating with human woman
Paul the Apostle (Hebrew of Hebrews, likely one of the most well studied man of his time) didn't teach or mention it

Of course He didn't.
Learn what demons are versus sons of god.
As said before, settle in your mind what the sons of God are and that will set your path.

[Alabama358]

As for myself I understand that the rebellious sons of God came down to Earth and did create offspring with human women. And it was not a one time thing.


Of course He didn't.
Learn what demons are versus sons of god.
As said before, settle in your mind what the sons of God are and that will set your path.

So are "the Rebellious" that you refer to above part of the fallen angels that followed Lucifer on his path to destruction... Or are these some other creatures?

[Good Cheer]

I think they are some of the angels spoken of in Jude.

[Alabama358]

I think they are some of the angels spoken of in Jude.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I am struggling with the difference between Fallen angels and demons... Are they not one in the same?

[Winger Ed.]

I always thought the demons were just meaner and evil compared to fallen angels.

[delftshooter]

The last couple of weeks there's been a flurry of articles from the infotainment industry about Noah's ark possibly being found. Aren't they looking at the same thing Ron Wyatt published on years and years ago?

Looking forward to any published results rather than fluff.

thats a normal thing done on the news reels. Its done to help them look ... non denominational, and non hostile to religion.

ironically there is massive proof of a huge ancient flood all over the world.

[Alabama358]

I always thought the demons were just meaner and evil compared to fallen angels.

:grin: I've often thought of some of the folks up in DC like that.

[Good Cheer]

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I am struggling with the difference between Fallen angels and demons... Are they not one in the same?

Good morning.
For a quick answer, as a single presenter Dr. Heiser explained things pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YzKi26pPsY

[ioon44]

Dr. Heiser's teachings have brought a lot of upstanding for me.

[ioon44]

:grin: I've often thought of some of the folks up in DC like that.

We have no idea how bad the spiritual darkness is in DC.

[Good Cheer]

We have no idea how bad the spiritual darkness is in DC.

And how long it's been that way.

[ioon44]

Maby since the politicians arrived.

[pmer]

So in chapter 6 of Genisis the sons of God are the blood of Adam? God saves a remnant of His intended creation through the flood and picks up where He left off with Abraham of Ur and sends him to the promised land?
Abel is gone but the sons of Cain are/is the corruption that God is trying to extinguish?

I've never understood it this way before but it seems to make sense to me and I'm not so stuck on the "giant" rabbit hole this way either.
Sorry about this being so short but I'm not trying to write a paper.

So this would seem to fit in with the entire context of both the old and new tesament?

Thanks for opening this perspective and it's new to me but I always wasn't very sure about what I was supposed to pickup from flood.

[Good Cheer]

Yo pmer.
Near as I can tell, no, they're not men.
Rather than repeat what I've learned from teachers over the years I'll post some of what Heiser had to say. If you're interested in it there's a lot of his teaching material available on the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQQfCZfNtZY

[ioon44]

So in chapter 6 of Genisis the sons of God are the blood of Adam? God saves a remnant of His intended creation through the flood and picks up where He left off with Abraham of Ur and sends him to the promised land?
Abel is gone but the sons of Cain are/is the corruption that God is trying to extinguish?

I've never understood it this way before but it seems to make sense to me and I'm not so stuck on the "giant" rabbit hole this way either.
Sorry about this being so short but I'm not trying to write a paper.

So this would seem to fit in with the entire context of both the old and new tesament?

Thanks for opening this perspective and it's new to me but I always wasn't very sure about what I was supposed to pickup from flood.


Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/gen/6/2/p0/t_conc_6002

[pmer]

Yo pmer.
Near as I can tell, no, they're not men.
Rather than repeat what I've learned from teachers over the years I'll post some of what Heiser had to say. If you're interested in it there's a lot of his teaching material available on the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQQfCZfNtZY

Your're sure the sons of God and daughters of men aren't describing the challenges of the up coming Mosaic Covenant and how God chooses to deal with the sin of man?

[Good Cheer]

Your're sure the sons of God and daughters of men aren't describing the challenges of the up coming Mosaic Covenant and how God chooses to deal with the sin of man?

So far I'm satisfied that the scholars and teachers that say scripture is using the descriptor to call out some created non-human beings are correct.

[Alabama358]

So in chapter 6 of Genisis the sons of God are the blood of Adam? God saves a remnant of His intended creation through the flood and picks up where He left off with Abraham of Ur and sends him to the promised land?
Abel is gone but the sons of Cain are/is the corruption that God is trying to extinguish?

I've never understood it this way before but it seems to make sense to me and I'm not so stuck on the "giant" rabbit hole this way either.
Sorry about this being so short but I'm not trying to write a paper.

So this would seem to fit in with the entire context of both the old and new tesament?

Thanks for opening this perspective and it's new to me but I always wasn't very sure about what I was supposed to pickup from flood.

Pmer
I think you are on the right track...

The way I read it, using the Bible & Holy spirit as my reference and not Youtube, Wikipedia, Podcast, books of fiction or flavor of the month scholars so called.

The "Daughters of men" spoken of in Genesis 6 are the woman folk born out of the Cane bloodline.
The "Sons of God" spoken of in Genesis 6 are Sons of Seth Adam's 3rd son. A God loving God fearing righteous people.

When in doubt... let scripture sort it out (that would make a good T-shirt lol)

We are lucky enough to have the New Testament to help connect the dots in the old Testament.
So what does the New Testament actually say about who are the Sons of God are?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(People that have "received him"... who? Christ... born again folks are the Sons of God. It is also note worthy that it says to them was given the power to BECOME sons of God. So just being born human does not get you there you must be saved)

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(indwelled with the Holy Spirit, saved folks... Sons of God)

1 John 3:1-2
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(This actually draws a distinction between humans that are not saved "The World" and those that are saved "the Sons of God" similar to Genesis 6 the "daughters of men" representing "the world" the "children of Seth" representing the saved or the Sons of God")
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(Again, Saved folks being "The Sons of God")

Philippians 2:14-15
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
(Again, Saved folks being "The Sons of God")


Christ nor his disciples ever taught that Demons/fallen/rebellious/any other unnatural beings EVER came down and bread with human woman to create a hybrid evil human nor did his disciples.

The Old Testament doesn't teach it
The New Testament doesn't teach it
Christ didn't teach it
Christ Disciples didn't teach it

Youtube teaches it
Bloggers teach it
Book writers teach it
Modern Scholars so called teach it

Take your pick

[ioon44]

Pmer
I think you are on the right track...

The way I read it, using the Bible & Holy spirit as my reference and not Youtube, Wikipedia, Podcast, books of fiction or flavor of the month scholars so called.

The "Daughters of men" spoken of in Genesis 6 are the woman folk born out of the Cane bloodline.
The "Sons of God" spoken of in Genesis 6 are Sons of Seth Adam's 3rd son. A God loving God fearing righteous people.

When in doubt... let scripture sort it out (that would make a good T-shirt lol)

We are lucky enough to have the New Testament to help connect the dots in the old Testament.
So what does the New Testament actually say about who are the Sons of God are?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(People that have "received him"... who? Christ... born again folks are the Sons of God. It is also note worthy that it says to them was given the power to BECOME sons of God. So just being born human does not get you there you must be saved)

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(indwelled with the Holy Spirit, saved folks... Sons of God)

1 John 3:1-2
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(This actually draws a distinction between humans that are not saved "The World" and those that are saved "the Sons of God" similar to Genesis 6 the "daughters of men" representing "the world" the "children of Seth" representing the saved or the Sons of God")
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(Again, Saved folks being "The Sons of God")

Philippians 2:14-15
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
(Again, Saved folks being "The Sons of God")


Christ nor his disciples ever taught that Demons/fallen/rebellious/any other unnatural beings EVER came down and bread with human woman to create a hybrid evil human nor did his disciples.

The Old Testament doesn't teach it
The New Testament doesn't teach it
Christ didn't teach it
Christ Disciples didn't teach it

Youtube teaches it
Bloggers teach it
Book writers teach it
Modern Scholars so called teach it

Take your pick


Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002

[Alabama358]

Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002

Ioon44,
I see that you post this link on this subject quite a bit, but it is a broken link and comes up as an error.
Is there a certain Book, chapter and verse that you are trying to point to?

[pmer]

That Blueletterbible.org is very helpful.

Good Cheer,
So when I consider theories of creation verses evolution the creationist maintains that there are no solid verifiable reproductive activities of differing species producing viable offspring. How can the theory of creation survive the flood if an evolutionary tactic of interspecies reproduction is thought to be biblical?

[pmer]

Ioon44,
I see that you post this link on this subject quite a bit, but it is a broken link and comes up as an error.
Is there a certain Book, chapter and verse that you are trying to point to?

Try a link from another post the last one didn't work for me either.

[Good Cheer]

That Blueletterbible.org is very helpful.

Good Cheer,
So when I consider theories of creation verses evolution the creationist maintains that there are no solid verifiable reproductive activities of differing species producing viable offspring. How can the theory of creation survive the flood if an evolutionary tactic of interspecies reproduction is thought to be biblical?

pmer, I probably won't enjoy the answer but why are you asking me?
As far as I'm concerned we are living within the continual process that exists and placing the present day theories of evolution and creation in juxtaposition is a specious* beginning of babel.


*For going on three decades I've suspected the creationist versus evolution arguing is being actively employed as a part of a control mechanism to prevent people from perceiving not only the divinely managed reality they live within but what they themselves are, spirit beings taking a brief trip in a meat suit.

[Good Cheer]

PS,
About the sons of men, I think Bullinger nailed it in the appendices to his 1922 Companion Bible edition of the King James.
Various scholars have turned up more to add to what Bullinger recorded but eh, Bullinger did a very good job.
But as always, don't just take the word of any man and run with it. Do your own research because you are responsible for what you believe.

[pmer]

If you have add to the word or take away from the word for an assumption to make sense it probably won't stand up to the foundation of scripture. ioon44's answers are provided with supporting chapter and verse. Others mention books rejected by Hebrew and Christian scholars thought to introduce paganism into Christian teachings.

Evolution is a powerful and effective attack on not just our faith that was first taken on by Charles Spurgeon in England. I'm sure Bullinger is a respectable figure in history.

[ioon44]

I just used the link from my post #88 to pull the page, I don't know why the latter links don't work.
Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002



Blueletterbible.org
Gen 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Go to blueletterbible.org then search Gen 6:2 then go to TOOLS and pull up INTERLINEAR and it tells you who the Sons of God are from the original language.

Sons of God in Gen6:2 is not the same Sons of God John 1:12, Romans 8:14, one needs to look at the original language to understand who is being referred to everything else is just speculation.

[Good Cheer]

If you have add to the word or take away from the word for an assumption to make sense it probably won't stand up to the foundation of scripture. ioon44's answers are provided with supporting chapter and verse. Others mention books rejected by Hebrew and Christian scholars thought to introduce paganism into Christian teachings.

Evolution is a powerful and effective attack on not just our faith that was first taken on by Charles Spurgeon in England. I'm sure Bullinger is a respectable figure in history.

By all means, study chapter and verse not failing (as is a common practice) to learn what was meant in the vernacular of the time. That way you won't have to assume.

As concerns how the theory of evolution has been used, it is only an effective attack on a weakened understanding of scripture. Look at all of our fellow Christians who have been willing to spout the claims that the Earth is only six thousand years old. What a grand example of failing to study!

[Good Cheer]

I just used the link from my post #88 to pull the page, I don't know why the latter links don't work.
Sons of God
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/...p0/t_conc_6002



Blueletterbible.org
Gen 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Go to blueletterbible.org then search Gen 6:2 then go to TOOLS and pull up INTERLINEAR and it tells you who the Sons of God are from the original language.

Sons of God in Gen6:2 is not the same Sons of God John 1:12, Romans 8:14, one needs to look at the original language to understand who is being referred to everything else is just speculation.

I've pretty much given up trying to point out to people why they really need to dig in and study.
But I haven't given up totally.

[Alabama358]

If you have add to the word or take away from the word for an assumption to make sense it probably won't stand up to the foundation of scripture. ioon44's answers are provided with supporting chapter and verse. Others mention books rejected by Hebrew and Christian scholars thought to introduce paganism into Christian teachings.

Evolution is a powerful and effective attack on not just our faith that was first taken on by Charles Spurgeon in England. I'm sure Bullinger is a respectable figure in history.

The Law of Parsimony (Occam's Razor)

Not the be all, end all of problem solving but usually gets you to the center quicker and keeps one from going rabbit holes for weeks,months or even years.

Sometimes folks have so much time, effort and even $ invested in something that it is hard for them to let it go. Especially when there is a whole industry built on it. Have you ever tried to talk sense to a flat-earther?

[Thundarstick]

The Law of Parsimony (Occam's Razor)
Sometimes folks have so much time, effort and even $ invested in something that it is hard for them to let it go. Especially when there is a whole industry built on it. Have you ever tried to talk sense to a flat-earther?

I feel the same way when it comes to rapture theologies and Christian zionism.

[Good Cheer]

A very good presentation by Dr. Heiser on understanding what the bible says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvjXcnb0fPU&pp=ygUVaGVpc2VyIGRpdmluZSBjb3VuY2ls

I don't know if Heiser ever did a presentation on why the time in the ark was made five months.
Reckon I'll have to look and see!

[ioon44]

A very good presentation by Dr. Heiser on understanding what the bible says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvjXcnb0fPU&pp=ygUVaGVpc2VyIGRpdmluZSBjb3VuY2ls

I don't know if Heiser ever did a presentation on why the time in the ark was made five months.
Reckon I'll have to look and see!

I have heard others teach these two five months events are connected.


Revelation 9:5
ESV
They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone.

[Good Cheer]

I have heard others teach these two five months events are connected.


Revelation 9:5
ESV
They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone.

Yes sir, me too.