LBT .44 Keith Bullet Mould

[What Cheer]

LBT catalogs a bullet mould described as casting an authentic .44 250 grain SWC Keith
bullet. My problem is I have been unable to determine what this mould/bullet looks like.

I would like to hear from anyone who has this mould, and if possible see a photograph of the mould or bullets cast from one.

Thank you,

What Cheer

[FN in MT]

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44SWC.htm

This may help....

[Lloyd Smale]

I had the 310 keith and 260 keith that he sells and neither shot real well in my guns. I peddled both of them.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44SWC.htm

This may help....

[FN in MT]

I've got two older NEI moulds that came in green and yellow cardbooard boxes. The sticker says Protchko, someplace in idaho. Anyway, have a 230 gr .411" and a 265 gr .452" .

The .45 slug seems to work great in anything I've tried it in. From a .45 Colt to my .454 Casull. In the Casull over 9.0 of Unique it's .38 wadcutter accurate.

The .41 seems to work well at least in my .41 mag mid range loads.

They are expensive though especially to simply "try"... with todays prices.

FN in MT

[What Cheer]

Lloyd,

The Keith mould is listed by LBT as the 430 250 K .45 nose, PB Authentic Keith 44.
Is this the one you tried?

Thanks,

What Cheer

[Lloyd Smale]

sorry i wasnt paying enough attention to your post. the two i had were .45 molds not 44 molds.

[What Cheer]

I am still looking for information on the LBT authentic Keith .44 SWC bullet moulds.

FN has provided a clue to another puzzle. Does anyone have a bullet mould made by NEI from a company named "Protchko" in Idaho?

All help will be appreciated.

Thanks,

What Cheer

[454PB]

I'll have to look. I have an NEI .44 cal. 240 grain mould that looks to be a Keith copy. I don't recall anything about "Protchko" on it. Mine is 20 plus years old.

[What Cheer]

454PB,

I would appreciate it if you could check your mould. It is supposed to be a Keith type bullet, I don't know for sure, but the mould might just have normal NEI markings, and only the box would be marked different.

Thanks,

What Cheer

[Lloyd Smale]

the two .45 kieth lbts i had were not in my opinion that close to kieths design. the nose was to short and they had to big of a metplat. I think its a matter of veral thinking he knows more then keith did. If your looking for 44 kieths try the lyman 429421 with a square lube grove. They also made it with a rounded one. Or try a 250kt rcbs those are about the two closest to what elmer had in mind. Both are good bullets.

[cajun shooter]

The RCBS mold that Lloyd mentioned is the 44-250-K. It's been around for years and is a good mold for the 44 spl or mag. I have two so that I can kick up production. At one time all mold makers wanted to ride the coat tail of Keith and made molds bearing his name. The best form of flattery is -----------

[What Cheer]

Gentlemen,

I am a long time fan of Elmer Keith and the .44 Special cartridge. I have cast and shot the Lyman 429421 since 1964, the RCBS 44-250-K since 1995. Both are excellent bullets. I like to try different bullets and am curious about the LBT 44 Keith. I have never seen a photograph of that mould/bullet, and would like to.

All information is appreciated.

Thanks,

What Cheer

[FN in MT]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/montanaguy375/DSC01098.jpg

Heres the box from the old NEI mould that whatcheer is talking about from Protchko.

On the LFT is the NEI .411 Keith it goes 235 grs from WW's.
On the RT is the recent LEE .411" 220 gr SWC Group Buy for a comparison.

FN in MT

[GLL]

I do not have the mould in question but here a a few others to consider.

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/5D2B912208F49F5/standard.jpg

[L to R : Ballisti-Cast #1103, NEI #256, RCBS .44-250K, LYMAN .429-421. RCBS .44-250KT. Lyman .429-336]

Another that I really like is CATshooter's Group Buy bullet designed by 45 2.1 (shown on the right)!

http://www.fototime.com/926CCD023699C62/standard.jpg

[What Cheer]

GLL,

Thanks for your input/photographs.

What Cheer

[454PB]

Here's a picture of mine. The box it came in is long gone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/NEI429240grain.jpg

[Dale53]

Here is the H&G #503. It is Hensley & Gibbs version of Keith's .44 bullet:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QHG503bullet-1734.jpg

It is one of my favorites and in my view is about as close to Keith's design as there is out there. However, I have shot a bushel basket of the Lyman 429421's and they are more than OK, also.

I have a Lyman four cavity mould for the 454424 (designed for the .45 Colt but also good in the S&W Model 25's and 625's for heavy loads) but my copy has a round grease groove. The round grease groove works just fine with the modern lubes (NRA 50/50 Alox/Beeswax or Lars White Label lubes). The square grease groove is what Keith designed but that was when the cast bullet lube was a bit primitive compared to the modern lubes and a large grease groove was actually NEEDED.

Others can disagree if they wish...

Dale53

[What Cheer]

Dale53,

I would tend to agree with you regarding the lube issue. I have used the NRA formula (Javelina), for a great many years with many different bullets, and have very good results.

The founder of the Javelina company was a close friend of mine.

Thanks for your input, I like your H & G #503 bullet, one I have not yet tried.

What Cheer

[GLL]

Note that the H&G #53 and the Ballisti-Cast #1103 are the same bullet. The H&G designs ended up at Ballisti-Cast.

Jerry

[Dale53]

GLL;
I should have mentioned that, Jerry. Thanks for the "heads up" (I KNOW that you meant the H&G #503 (not #53 - dern these typo keyboards[smilie=1:).

I hear that the Ballisti-cast bullet moulds are as good as the H&G's, also. I know for a fact that H&G's are unsurpassed. However, I have several good (actually VERY good moulds) from RCBS, Lyman, Saeco and also like my Lee's even tho' they may not be in the same price cast. I also have fine moulds from LBT and NEI as well as custom moulds, that are superb, from Borton & Darr. We have "plenty" of goodies that only could be hoped for in the recent past.

Dale53

[GLL]

"dern these typo keyboards."

I sure wish these keyboards would stop making all of these mistakes ! :) :)

Jerry

[Lloyd Smale]

walt the two 45s i had resembled the left bullet in this nei picture. Short fat noses. Something that in my experince has never been ideal for accuracy.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/montanaguy375/DSC01098.jpg

Heres the box from the old NEI mould that whatcheer is talking about from Protchko.

On the LFT is the NEI .411 Keith it goes 235 grs from WW's.
On the RT is the recent LEE .411" 220 gr SWC Group Buy for a comparison.

FN in MT

[GLL]

Dale:

Here is a photo of one of my Ballisti-Cast moulds. I have been impressed with the quality. All have been beautifully machined until my last purchase. It had tear-out in the cavity. Must have been machined late Friday afternoon ! The 4-cavity versions are getting a bit pricey now !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/42631AF0F1ECBA8/orig.jpg

[AKtinman]

For the original poster, here is what the LBT Keith looked like in 2004:

http://www.fototime.com/941DDFD6B79B196/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/AB830E87854D931/standard.jpg

The mold is marked as 240 grain, and I don't know if Veral has made any changes to weight or design since I ordered this mold, but as I recall, 240 was the only weight he offered at that time. Also, no photo was available in the catalog, so what you received was Veral's interpretation of the Keith design, varying by diameter, of course.

I haven't shot many of these, but it seems to shoot on a par with the Lyman 429421 I bought in the mid 80's. Usually I just go to the LBT 250 LFN for most of my .44 shooting.

Hope this helps out.

[Dale53]

Jerry;
That is a FINE lookin' mould. Unfortunately, my H&G #503 is just a two cavity. However, it looked SO good at the gun show that I had to buy it. It works very well, was used but taken care of by a careful caster. I have some nice Lyman moulds and they are a BARGAIN on todays market. However, when I went to buy a four cavity 452424 recently I learned that they had dropped that four cavity from their inventory. Sacrilegious!! Old Elmer would be turning over in his grave if he knew that!

However, fortunately, a forum friend here, had an extra 454424 four cavity and I was able to fill my needs (thanks, Glen).

I will hit the casting barn again in a couple of days. I am trying to lay in my year's supply while the weather is hostile. I would really like to have ten thousand bullets cast by spring.

Dale53

[GLL]

AKtinman:

That is a very nice looking mould and design ! It looks very similar to the RCBS 44-250KT.
I would sure like one of those myself if he is still cutting them like that !

Thank you for the photo !

Jerry

[What Cheer]

AKtinman,

Thank you for posting the photograph of the LBT Keith mould, that's what I wanted to see.

Best regards,

What Cheer

[Lloyd Smale]

now that looks like a bullet that would shoot. Its got a longer nose with a smaller metplat. I shoot and have experiement with many many 44 and 45 colt swcs. It can be real tough finding good ones. Ive even taken molds that did well and had them copied by good mold makers and just changing them a tiny bit which is hard to avoid trying to measure one can take a good bullet and make it a real dud. to me that is the only downfall to the swc design. I love them for hunting and shooting but a guy ends up with a drawer full of dud molds. If you find a good one hold on to it like gold. It is usually much easier to find a lfn that is accurate. there just as effective on game too but i guess im just a bit old school. By the way those h&g and ballistic cast molds are by far my favorite molds. they may cost more to buy but they will last your lifetime and be passed down to your kids. Some people dont know this but ballistic cast will custom cut molds and the price isnt alot more then there standard designs. they even helped me design a 512 swcgc bullet. they were freindly and great to deal with. It wasnt cheap but then ive found nothing in this hobby that is thats worth fooling with.
Dale:

Here is a photo of one of my Ballisti-Cast moulds. I have been impressed with the quality. All have been beautifully machined until my last purchase. It had tear-out in the cavity. Must have been machined late Friday afternoon ! The 4-cavity versions are getting a bit pricey now !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/42631AF0F1ECBA8/orig.jpg

[AKtinman]

AKtinman:

That is a very nice looking mould and design ! It looks very similar to the RCBS 44-250KT.
I would sure like one of those myself if he is still cutting them like that !

Thank you for the photo !

Jerry

My pleasure to provide the photo.

Is your Ballisti-Cast in your photo the #643?

Beautiful photography, by the way!

[GLL]

AKtinman:

The Ballisti-Cast 4-cavity is indeed the 175 grain #643 ! It drops absolutely beautiful bullets ! :) :)

I have seven other 4-cavity B-C moulds for pistol rounds. Each one is beautifully crafted. The only rifle mould was for a 38-55 it it had some machining flaws in the cavities.

Jerry