Finally joined the Ballard club

[wcp4570]

I picked up an unbelievable deal today at a local Pawn Shop. I've been looking to add a Ballard to my single shot collection and today was the day. To be honest with everyone I don't know the first thing about the Ballard models. I always like seeing marlinman's collection and watching him shoot over on Sagebrush. What I found was a nice old gun in 40-63, barrel is 30" long and is 7/8 inch at the muzzle. The bore is not perfect, has a little pitting but the rifling looks ok so I want to try and shoot this gun before making an changes. The exterior finish is typical for a gun its age and the wood is solid and looks like someone refinished them a few years back. The sights are blade front and semi buckhorn rear, the tang sight location still has plug screws installed.

I've been trying to find out what brass can be used to make 40-63 brass from because I'm sure the original is impossible to locate. Next will be finding dies to load with. Any information you can offer is appreciated.

319178 319179 319180 319181

[marlinman93]

I picked up an unbelievable deal today at a local Pawn Shop. I've been looking to add a Ballard to my single shot collection and today was the day. To be honest with everyone I don't know the first thing about the Ballard models. I always like seeing marlinman's collection and watching him shoot over on Sagebrush. What I found was a nice old gun in 40-63, barrel is 30" long and is 7/8 inch at the muzzle. The bore is not perfect, has a little pitting but the rifling looks ok so I want to try and shoot this gun before making an changes. The exterior finish is typical for a gun its age and the wood is solid and looks like someone refinished them a few years back. The sights are blade front and semi buckhorn rear, the tang sight location still has plug screws installed.

I've been trying to find out what brass can be used to make 40-63 brass from because I'm sure the original is impossible to locate. Next will be finding dies to load with. Any information you can offer is appreciated.

319178 319179 319180 319181

Excellent Weldon! What you purchased is a JM Marlin Ballard #4 Perfection, with a couple options. First the full round barrel was a no extra cost special order option. But the steel shotgun buttplate was also an extra that was special order.
From the serial number you mentioned in your PM, my guesstimate would put it around 1877 date.

[wcp4570]

Thanks Vall That at least lets me know which model I found and a little about the gun. The rifle looks unmolested. I'm very excited to have this piece of history. Looking forward to getting things collected to shoot it.

wcp

[pull the trigger]

What makes it a 4 and not a 1 1/2 ?

[marlinman93]

What makes it a 4 and not a 1 1/2 ?

As far as I know the majority of 1 1/2 Ballards were .45-70 and .40-65 Ballard, with a very small number, made in .40-63 in the 15,000 range. Since I've been told his 1 1/2 is a higher serial number I'd expect it is a #4 since the 1 1/2 was dropped by this later serial number. I've also never seen a 1 1/2 that didn't have the deeper crescent buttplate used on very early Ballard models.

[Green Frog]

Well done! The 40-63 is easy to load for and one of the milder shooting 40+s. I got a #5 (Pacific) from the auction of a retired longtime gunsmith from this area. It’s in about the same shape as yours, but weighs a ton! It is chambered in the big ole 40-90, so it kicks a bit more and brass is harder to make. Either way though, these Ballards are lots of fun… it’s easy to see why Vall loves them so much.

Froggie

[gnoahhh]

Excellent snag! Correct me if I'm wrong Vall, but can't .40-63/.40-70 brass be made from 9.3x74R brass, which is relatively easy to find?

[pull the trigger]

Thanks for the education as usual

[Sgt H]

FWIW Buffalo Arms has 40-63 Ballard brass in stock, not cheap though.

[wcp4570]

FWIW Buffalo Arms has 40-63 Ballard brass in stock, not cheap though.

Just checked and they are really proud of their brass. I'll wait for some used 405 Winchester. I'm headed to Tulsa gun show next month, maybe I'll get lucky and find some brass there. Thanks for the information.

wcp

[Chill Wills]

How about the 30-40 Krag case? It might be a little short. I don't have access to my Cartridges of the World to look up the rim size. I can make the Krag into a basic case.

[marlinman93]

Excellent snag! Correct me if I'm wrong Vall, but can't .40-63/.40-70 brass be made from 9.3x74R brass, which is relatively easy to find?

Yes, the only issue is the rim diameter, which is smaller on the 9.3 cases. That is not a big deal, just have to be careful as you chamber a round since the rim can slip past the extractor, and then the action wont close until you back it out and ensure it stays above the extractor.
I use 9.3x74R cases for my Ballard Pacific in .40-85 as they're such a close case size. Just expand the necks to .410" and load powder and bullet, and fire form them. I used to fire form first using Bullseye and filler, but discovered they're just as accurate fire forming them with the charge and bullet I use, so saved all the power, primers, and time skipping that step. They're the perfect length for a .40-85 with no trimming!

[marlinman93]

How about the 30-40 Krag case? It might be a little short. I don't have access to my Cartridges of the World to look up the rim size. I can make the Krag into a basic case.

The .30-40 and the .303 British can both be used, but they are way short! BACO stretches those cases to make them long enough, but they must have a better stretcher than I do! It's 2.31" vs. 2.38" and I can't get that slightly longer length with my KM stretcher.
I'm sure you could use fire formed .30-40 Krag, but they do get slightly shorter after blowing them out to .410" diameter. Maybe seat the bullets way out if you don't mind the corrosion buildup ahead of the case mouth?

[Chill Wills]

I found my Cartridges of the World and looked up the Ballard 40-63. I have had conversations about them over the years but I have never owned one.
Will the Hornady brass work to create cases?
The Win.405 rim diameter is going to work as it is smaller than the Ballard by 0.012". Not best, but good.
Ballard 40-63 uses 0.555 diameter and the Hornady Win. 405 uses 0.543" -Cartridges of the world.
No info on what rim depth the Ballard chamber calls for but my Hornady made 405 Win. brass measures from 0.068" to 0.070"

You can measure your rifle if you haven't already, and check to see if the Hornady brass will headspace.

[wcp4570]

I found my Cartridges of the World and looked up the Ballard 40-63. I have had conversations about them over the years but I have never owned one.
Will the Hornady brass work to create cases?
The Win.405 rim diameter is going to work as it is smaller than the Ballard by 0.012". Not best, but good.
Ballard 40-63 uses 0.555 diameter and the Hornady Win. 405 uses 0.543" -Cartridges of the world.
No info on what rim depth the Ballard chamber calls for but my Hornady made 405 Win. brass measures from 0.068" to 0.070"

You can measure your rifle if you haven't already, and check to see if the Hornady brass will headspace.

Thanks for the info. I am sure the 405 will be ok if I can ever locate any at a good price. I did neck up a 303 British case yesterday and shot it a couple time just to see how it worked. Even though it is shorter than what the 40-63 is suppose to be, it did work ok. Fireformed and ejected just fine and it is 0.003 smaller than the 405 rim is. I measured the chamber rim depth with my Dial Vernier and best I can tell it measures 0.074 deep. If I can't find 405 brass I may just use 303 brass to get me by, that is kinda like the guys that can't find 32-40 brass and have to use 30-30 that winds up being shorter as well.

Does your Cartridges of the World have a picture of the 40-63 brass that shows all the case dimensions? If it does would you mind taking a picture of the page and post it here? Thanks

wcp

[marlinman93]

COTW does have pictures, but no dimensional pictures. The index at the end of each section has some general dimensions, but can't always trust COTW specs, as they do make some errors.
I use .405 Hornady brass almost exclusively, other than some .40-70 SS brass I found at a local gun show, which is exactly like the Ballard in every dimension, and rarely needs anything but a minor trim. The Hornady .405 brass is maybe .10" longer, so some full length sizing, and a quick trim does it. But it's now out of production, so getting tougher to find.

[wcp4570]

COTW does have pictures, but no dimensional pictures. The index at the end of each section has some general dimensions, but can't always trust COTW specs, as they do make some errors.
I use .405 Hornady brass almost exclusively, other than some .40-70 SS brass I found at a local gun show, which is exactly like the Ballard in every dimension, and rarely needs anything but a minor trim. The Hornady .405 brass is maybe .10" longer, so some full length sizing, and a quick trim does it. But it's now out of production, so getting tougher to find.

I am defiantly finding out that 405 brass is hard to find and when you do find some it will be at least $2.00 (at Gary Reeder's) or more per round. Maybe I'll have some luck finding some at the Tulsa Gun Show next month. I really would like to see how this rifle shoots before I put a lot of money into brass. If it shows promise I would not feel bad about investing in 50 rounds which should last a long time. I still need to find a dozen or so 303 British brass to reform to see if this old girl will shoot.

wcp

[marlinman93]

I am defiantly finding out that 405 brass is hard to find and when you do find some it will be at least $2.00 (at Gary Reeder's) or more per round. Maybe I'll have some luck finding some at the Tulsa Gun Show next month. I really would like to see how this rifle shoots before I put a lot of money into brass. If it shows promise I would not feel bad about investing in 50 rounds which should last a long time. I still need to find a dozen or so 303 British brass to reform to see if this old girl will shoot.

wcp

One thing is for sure. If you find .405 Hornady brass and decide the gun doesn't shoot well, you'll not have any trouble getting rid of the brass you buy! I wouldn't hesitate to buy as much as you can find or need, and not pass it up if you find it.

[Green Frog]

Years ago I bought 100 rounds of the Hornady 405 brass when they had a good sale on. Now I’m wondering whether it was a clearance sale! I’m using them in my 40-90 Pacific, so of course they’re a little short, and their rim diameter is a little small as well, but they were all I could find at an affordable price.
Isn’t there also a metric round that’s pretty close to the Ballard rounds (maybe 9.3X74R?)
Froggie

[marlinman93]

Years ago I bought 100 rounds of the Hornady 405 brass when they had a good sale on. Now I’m wondering whether it was a clearance sale! I’m using them in my 40-90 Pacific, so of course they’re a little short, and their rim diameter is a little small as well, but they were all I could find at an affordable price.
Isn’t there also a metric round that’s pretty close to the Ballard rounds (maybe 9.3X74R?)
Froggie

Yes, Charlie. Check post #12.