Dovetailed front rifle sight won't drive out of ramp slot

[PBSmith]

This is on a 1942 Winchester Model 94. Been trying to drive it out left to right, as viewed from the rear.

Have hammered on it with a brass rod in between the dovetail and the hammer - no go. Won't even budge.

Any suggestions? The ramp appears to be integral with the barrel and I don't want to damage anything.

What's the best way to brace up the gun before pounding on the sight? I have an old device that I believe was designed for moving dovetailed sights, but it only has a dinky little thumbscrew and doesn't fit the ramp anyhow..

Thanks.

[gc45]

does it have a tiny set screw?

[PBSmith]

No.

[LAGS]

I would have to see the front sight.
But I have had many others that I had to warm up the sight ramp / and front sight to loosen it up because they were rusted or in some cases even soldered to the ramp.
Sights should pound out from the Left to the Right.
Some dovetails are slanted so you install them from the right to the left.

[John Taylor]

Winchester sights should go left to right. Clamping the barrel in a heavy vice near the sight will help, pad with wood to keep from marring the barrel. Heat or penetrating oil might help. I have had some that were very difficult to get out. If the barrel is not held close to the dovetail the barrel acts like a spring and the sight will not move.

[Texas by God]

I had to clamp mine in the vise using a piece of 1/4” key stock on each side of the ramp. A good lick with a brass punch got it loose then.
This was after lots of trying elseways……


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[beemer]

Just last week good friend tried to take the dove tail front sight out of a GP-100, it would not budge at all. He stopped by the gunsmith to let him take it out. Gunsmith said to use a steel punch on really stubborn sights if absolutely necessary and it could damage the sight. Steel punches will not give and give a really solid hit. A punch could be ground and polished to fit.

I would be careful of the ramp, Texas covered that.

The GP-100 sight moved the first lick.

[Hick]

You really ought to use a sight pusher (or whatever else they are called). I have two Win 94's I use it on. The benefit is that one side of the sight pusher rests on the back of the ramp on each side of the dovetail and the other side pushes with a threaded rod that you turn. This allows you to push really hard without damaging the ramp or the barrel. It puts no stress on the connection of the ramp to the barrel and no stress on the barrel (and they don't cost much either).

[M-Tecs]

In the 90's I built one similar to the Williams Front Sighter pusher. It works well. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007371862?pid=732798



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbtVgNVpRRk&t=94s

Until recently I only had a couple of driftable fixed rear sight handguns. After I started getting more I was going to build one but there was a sale on the Chinese made ones of this style for $39.99 delivered. Only used it on rears and it works well for that application and some styles of handgun fronts. I would have to dig mine out to be sure but I don't think this style would work for the OP's needs. The Williams would get it done. When using a punch and hammer on the tough ones one tap with a 4-pound hammer worked better than series off lighter taps from a smaller hammer.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09NR7KQ7L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1

[openbook]

#1 I would hit it with Kroil and come back later. It's the best penetrating fluid I've ever used, works like magic.

#2 When I have moved or replaced dovetail sights, I found that I needed to hit them a lot harder than I was initially comfortable with to move them. You can't "tap it out." It's more like "wallop it out." Just anchor the barrel, as several people have said, and line up your brass punch really well.

#3 Use a heavier hammer.

[Hickok]

I agree with the above information.

Your older Winchester does indeed have the ramp integral with the barrel. (Mine is a 1948 model 1894)

As stated, the barrel MUST be in a padded vise, held as near the front sight as possible, (The rifle buttstock supported on a work bench). I tape up everything to avoid any marks or scratches. Brass punch, lined up right, a good solid smack. Left to right.

I also have the Wheeler sight pusher, and it works very good. I bought it after messing up some fiber-optic front sights, as they don't like to be hit with a miss-placed brass punch!!!:groner:

[PBSmith]

John Taylor, openbook and others who suggested penetrating oil win the day. I dribbled Kroil on the sight last evening, let it soak overnight, and this morning out she drove with no more effort than what I had hammered dry.

Interestingly, the hang up was NOT in the dovetail itself (both slot and dovetail clean), but rather in the flanges of the sight that extend over the ramp. Water apparently had seeped into the thin space between the ramp and the sight flanges. Horrible rust developed, essentially welding the sight on.

Maybe a lesson here for those who venture out in wet weather. When you're drying out Old Betsie, use a hair dryer and/or compressed air to dry out anything you might want to remove down the road.

Many thanks to all for your responses.
PBSmith

[NSB]

I’ve seen a good number of sights put in and red LocTite was put in with it. Try heating it before trying to move it.

[Hickok]

That is good news!:guntootsmiley:

[Cap'n Morgan]

Interestingly, the hang up was NOT in the dovetail itself (both slot and dovetail clean), but rather in the flanges of the sight that extend over the ramp. Water apparently had seeped into the thin space between the ramp and the sight flanges. Horrible rust developed, essentially welding the sight on.



Good observation!

I've seen the same thing with the screw-in chokes on a Beretta. I first saw the gun at a gun shop. It was a second-hand gun, but it looked like new.
When I remarked that the price seemed quite low, the shop owner explained that both chokes would not budge, and he would have to sell it as a fixed choke gun.
I mentioned the gun to a friend - and before I knew it he had bought the gun and came pleading for me to try and fix the chokes. He had tried everything from kroil to heat to no avail, and was afraid to ruin the soft soldered barrels.

I ended up splitting the chokes with a long endmill, as seen in the picture.
Somehow water (perhaps salt water) had seeped in between chokes and barrel, and the forming rust had expanded and actually dented the chokes inward!

https://i.imgur.com/KYmYrEA.jpg

[PBSmith]

Oy yoi. The Beretta owner was lucky to have you as a friend.

Was he able to clean up the barrel threads and use new choke tubes? Or were the barrels permanently mucked as well?

I would think the problem is something duck hunters have encountered more than once.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Well, no harm came to the barrels, except for a slight resistance when screwing in the bottom choke. A thread tap would no doubt cure that, but, alas, I don't have one.
Luckily, the chokes were of the extended type, otherwise it would have been a much more difficult operation.

I have two guns with screw-in chokes and made it a habit to grease the threads well if the chokes are supposed to stay in for a longer period. Even if the gun is not used for anything but target shooting, all kind of nasty stuff accumulates in the skirt and threads over time. Grease (instead of oil) seems to block most of it.

[Rich/WIS]

Use either anti-sieze or the commercial choke tube from several sources. I usually removed the tubes every couple hundred rounds when I had a Rem 11-87.