44 mag vs. 454 Casull

[jack19512]

I have two Ruger SBH's in 44 mag and one Ruger SRH in 454 Casull. I really like shooting the SRH 454 much better than the SBH 44 mag. I purchased all of these revolvers with deer hunting in mind. Can anyone tell me if there would be any advantage to having/shooting a 44 mag vs. 454 Casull? In other words is there anything the 44 mag can do that the 454 can't?

The reason I ask is because if there are no advantages to the 44 mag over the 454 Casull I may give up the SBH 44 mag's. I shot both today from a distance of 63 yards and the groups from the 44 mag were poor but the groups from the 454 were very good, very good for me anyway and at least gives me some hope of doing better.

It's not just an accuracy thing. The SRH is very comfortable to shoot while the SBH is destroying my middle finger where it hits the trigger guard after firing from the recoil. I have tried everything I know to keep my finger from hitting the trigger guard but nothing has worked so far.

[45&30-30]

jack, I don't think you are going to notice a difference for what you are doing. The difference would go to the 454 if you wanted to hunt larger game with heavier bullets. I've had guns that have hurt me and I backed way off the powder and worked up learning how to hold the gun so it didn't hurt anymore.

The only other thing I would say is if you ever plan on having a rifle/pistol combo the 44 has a lot more options and a lot more options/availability at the store for full power loads in the 44. If your reloading I don't see much difference for your intended purposes.

If you really like the 44, how about a 44 SRH?

[jack19512]

. If you really like the 44, how about a 44 SRH?









I was actually looking at Bud's gun shop online tonight just to see what might be offered in the SRH 44 mag.

[S.R.Custom]

Six of one, half dozen of the other....

[jameslovesjammie]

On the few occasions I've shot a Blackhawk or Superblackhawk, I have the exact same problem. My fingers keep getting smashed by the trigger guard. The D/A frame of the Redhawk suites me better as well, although I much prefer the look of the single action.

Ballistically, there isn't enough difference to matter, however the .44 will do 90% of what the .454 will with 75% of the recoil.

[Heavy lead]

Jack, don't feel bad that SBH grip was destined to fail. Find a Bisley to shoot, it'll change the way you think about single actions. I put a Bisley grip in my BFR475 with fat smooth wood grips handles recoil better than anything else I have, better than the SRH too, consider fitting a Bisley grip on the SBH, I've done that to 3 of them now and like them.

[Lloyd Smale]

Only advantage i can see to a 44 is its going to be easier to load if your looking for plinking ammo. brass is much cheaper to buy and theres better molds for the lighter side of the bullet selection. If you allready have brass its probably more of a personal choise then anything. Even going the other way a 44 can be loaded in a srh to ballistics pretty close to what most load in a 454.

[Mohillbilly]

All I can add is the single action is lighter and easyer to carry. with a grip change like a Bisley it might not bite.There is the cost of brass, levergun interchangeablility, and the single actions are prime for conversions to a custom. Also, since you already have them why not?

[44man]

I have large hands and knuckles and the Bisley just tears me up, much worse then a SBH.
Put Pachmeyer grips on the .44 and NO MORE BEAT UP FINGERS!
Before I ever invested in a Bisley, I would shoot one first to see what happens to YOU.
Once you stop getting your finger bashed, you will shoot better.
I listened to all the guys here about how great a Bisley is and bought one. It was gone in less then 2 weeks! [smilie=1:
Nobody has the same size hands.

[chaos]

I have large hands and knuckles and the Bisley just tears me up, much worse then a SBH.
Put Pachmeyer grips on the .44 and NO MORE BEAT UP FINGERS!
Before I ever invested in a Bisley, I would shoot one first to see what happens to YOU.
Once you stop getting your finger bashed, you will shoot better.
I listened to all the guys here about how great a Bisley is and bought one. It was gone in less then 2 weeks! [smilie=1:
Nobody has the same size hands.


AGREED!!!

I have medium to large hands and I think the Bisley grip is a total ABORTION. Big rubber grips such as the pachmayers cause me to bash my fingers on the trigger guard. I had several sets of grips made for my SBHs. They are exactly like the factory grips but fatter up top.

Everybodys hands are a little different, just like fingerprints.

Chaos

[Bret4207]

I like the Bisley better than the standard, but I hate SA grips in general. I'd rather shoot DA grips anytime. Wasn't there a grip someone came out with that was sort of a DA grip style that fit the SA frames? I want to say it was a small custom shop in Mo., but my memory fails me.

[Heavy lead]

Everybodies right on this one, find one to shoot first, If I had an extra Bisley grip around I'd send it to you to see if you liked it. No use in wasting money until then. Everybody's grip and hands are different, I've got big hands, but my pinky's are small where the rest of my fingers are big and that fat on the bottom of the grip doesn't work for me, I like meat in my grips, but farther up. I do have a 3 screw sbh I won't part with and have learned to shoot it well by using electrical tape on my middle finger right where the trigger guard hits it. Myself I hate the soft rubber grips, always have.

[44man]

Everybodies right on this one, find one to shoot first, If I had an extra Bisley grip around I'd send it to you to see if you liked it. No use in wasting money until then. Everybody's grip and hands are different, I've got big hands, but my pinky's are small where the rest of my fingers are big and that fat on the bottom of the grip doesn't work for me, I like meat in my grips, but farther up. I do have a 3 screw sbh I won't part with and have learned to shoot it well by using electrical tape on my middle finger right where the trigger guard hits it. Myself I hate the soft rubber grips, always have.
Yeah, I spent a lot of time taping my knuckle and stuffing on gloves over band aids and such. Taping foam on my glove was fun too.
I got where I love the Pachmeyer grips because the pain and blood is gone. If you don't like the rubber grips then some kind of a filler behind the trigger guard will work. I had to super glue a rubber filler behind the trigger guard on my MOA until I made a new loop to open the gun with. Funny how the little .44 can hurt so much! [smilie=1:

[bearcove]

The mod 92 puma comes in 454. So you have that option.

The 44 mag is not close to the 454 for power. I lived in Alaska and still go back to my place up there. I only take my FA 454 and Puma 92, the 44 mountain revolver stays home. For the lower 48 though it isn't going to matter. Shoot what you prefer to shoot they both will get it done. So will a 41 mag or 45 colt.

:Fire:

[targetshootr]

I would go with 44 mag for the reasons given and because it uses large pistol primers while the 454 uses small rifle primers, if I remember correctly. Also, the 454 is liable to go through an animal and on into the next county. I like the Bisley grip myself so I put one on a nm 44 flat top and it's a treat to shoot. Ocassionally the grip frame will give me a whack if I don't hold it right but for sure it's easier on my hands than a SBH.

http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/?action=view&current=DSCN4131.jpg

[454PB]

If you are comparing cartridges, the .454 has it all over the .44 magnum. That's assuming you're talking energy and velocity. As was already said, there's no animal in the lower 48 that "needs" the power of any handgun cartridge above the .44 magnum. In fact, "Ruger only" handloads in a .45 Colt are plenty.

If you're talking guns, I too had my knuckles pounded by my first .44 SBH. That can be overcome by grip changes. I've never owned a Ruger that wasn't improved by swapping out the grips. My SRH in .454 Casull had me bleeding after 6 shots, until I changed the grips. My FA 83 in field grade came with Pachmeyer Presentation grips, and although they are UGLY, they make shooting pleasant.

[44man]

Just to show how a little change can make shooting fun again, here are two factory levers for my MOA that were BRUTAL to shoot.
I made the one on the gun and it is wonderful, I don't feel a thing anymore.
The factory must think every shooter has hands like a woman! [smilie=1:

[jack19512]

I really don't want to give up on the 44 mag but I can't figure out why I have had these two SBH's a while now and just can't seem to get them to shoot my cast well at all and have only had the SRH a short time and shot a real nice group from it already from 50 yards.

It could be that I am anticipating the pain that is to follow from the SBH. I tried wearing a glove but that didn't help any. I will do some research and see what is available as far as grips go and contemplate a grip change if I have to although that is something I have never done before.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know about that. the 44 in a srh is capable of shooting 300s at well over 1400 fps. In the two srh 454s i had doing much more then that in a 454 gave me sticky case extraction. Im not arguing that a 454 isnt more powerful then a 44 just that pushing a 300 grain cast bullet more then 1400 fps is probably going to be counter productive in penetration so i doesnt make much sense to me. In all reality if a guy is shooting cast a 45 colt ruger is all you need to get the most out of 45 bullets. If you want more power then the 44mag/45colt your much better off skipping the 454 and going to a 475 to get bigger bullets. Dont get me wrong i still have one 454 my 4 5/8s fa. I wouldnt sell it but i much prefer its identical brother in 475.
The mod 92 puma comes in 454. So you have that option.

The 44 mag is not close to the 454 for power. I lived in Alaska and still go back to my place up there. I only take my FA 454 and Puma 92, the 44 mountain revolver stays home. For the lower 48 though it isn't going to matter. Shoot what you prefer to shoot they both will get it done. So will a 41 mag or 45 colt.

:Fire:

[jack19512]

I ordered me a set of Pachmayr grips yesterday and will see if they help. :)

[leftiye]

The middle finger (bone bruise) problem is easily solved by grips that move your middle pinkie down below the trigger guard (by filling in behind the trigger guard). On a SBH, this results in a grip shape similar to a bisley as the grip is necessarily lengthened below the frame to give enough lenght to the grip. You can't bang on what ain't there.

[jack19512]

The middle finger (bone bruise) problem is easily solved by grips that move your middle pinkie down below the trigger guard (by filling in behind the trigger guard). On a SBH, this results in a grip shape similar to a bisley as the grip is necessarily lengthened below the frame to give enough lenght to the grip.






So am I to assume the Pachmayr grips won't help me? :(

[44man]

So am I to assume the Pachmayr grips won't help me? :(
On the regular hog leg Ruger, the Pachmeyer grip fills behind the trigger guard and you will love it. No more steel to tear your knuckle.

[jack19512]

The reason I ask is because if there are no advantages to the 44 mag over the 454 Casull I may give up the SBH 44 mag's.








I got to looking in my reloading manual tonight and noticed something interesting. The reloading info for the 44 mag and the 454 Casull are almost identical when loading the 240 gr. jacketed bullet.

But when loading for the 300 gr. jacketed bullet things dramatically change. For the 240 gr. bullet the max velocity and ft.lbs for the 44 mag and the 454 that are listed are 1400fps./1044ft.lbs.

But with the 300 gr. bullet the max for the 44 mag is 1150fps./881ft.lbs. and for the 454 Casull it is 1550fps./1600ft.lbs. Now, since I only plan on shooting cast from both of these revolvers I don't think any of this really matters. I'm not sure what I would hunt with a revolver that would require a velocity of 1550fps. and 1600ft.lbs of energy.

So I guess it comes down to the particular revolver more than it is a 44 mag. vs. 454 Casull. I know that I could possibly load the 44 mag. hotter but I think I might prefer to down load the 454 Casull to do what I needed.

[Willbird]

John Linebaugh has tons of info and testing that shows that the 45 COLT will walk all over the 44 magnum and do it at a lower pressure. The 44 magnum is and always has been a "medium bore". Having a 454 lets you run even warmer loads. The 44 magnum cartridge is far better off if you use it with 240 grain bullets and don't max out the pressures, if you need more than that get a BIG BORE revolver :-).

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm

Bill

[44man]

I know all of you have read my cautions with hard cast WLN and WFN boolits that are shot too fast. I have discovered my 45-70 has a greatly reduced killing power because I am shooting over 1600 fps. Even an 80% meplat is just punching holes through deer with little internal damage, unlike the .475, .45 Colt or .44 that destroys the lungs.
I am convinced the pressure wave in front of the fast boolit is forcing tissue out of the way before the boolit can act on it.
When the boolit gets too fast, expansion is needed to slow it in the animal. Unless you are shooting huge animals, stay under 1400 fps.
I can't explain it any better but with all of the necropsies I have done, I am convinced that high velocity and muzzle energy is not what you should be looking for.
If you insist on pushing to max, use a jacketed bullet. You will thank me after finding a double lung shot animal with the lungs still intact and a tiny hole with no blood trail to follow because you thought ME counts.
Sorry to break bubbles but EVERY caliber from the .357 to the .600 Nitro express needs the exact bullet tailored to the game to be shot.
When you think you will gain killing power by by shooting the wrong boolit faster from a revolver, you will have nothing but disappointment.
Throw out the book and talk to a hunter! :drinks:

[trappst]

Jack19512, I'm curious as to which manual you were looking at. Also, was this data for jacketed or boolits?

The Casull will push a properly constructed jacketed bullet WELL over 1400 fps. Some data that you will find may have been developed with bullets that just won't handle much more than that. The Sierra JHC comes to mind.....it'll rip apart at higher velocities.

I've also noted a fairly large variance in reloading data from one manual to the next. Most of the data I've seen was developed in long Contender barrels or the Freedom Arms revolver.....this data tends to be on the high end.

I can't really comment on the 454 vs. 44 mag though. I have virtually no experience with a 44 mag but I do enjoy my 454 SRH.

44Man, what boolit would you recommend for whitetails while shooting the 454 Casull (7.5" SRH)? The buck in my avatar was shot with a 300g XTP/Mag and left virtually no blood trail....double lung with a very small exit through off side shoulder. I want to - :castmine:

[papalobster]

I'll comment on the grips between the 2 SBH's. I had a SBH with the Pachmayr grips and it didn't tear my middle finger open any more. I had to sell it due to an small scale economic crisis. A few years back I purchased a SBH Hunter with the Bisley. My trouble was, with my huge paws, the grip rested on the meat of my palm. On firing hotter loads, the grip would catch on the meat and not rotate as I thought it should. I picked up a set of grips from Don Collins, but had them made 1/2 longer. I did the final sanding and finishing, and it's great to shoot now.

My brother has a SRH with the 9.5" and he hates my SBH grips, and I think the SRH feels too skinny!

You're going to have to shoot em to see what you like.

[44man]

Jack19512, I'm curious as to which manual you were looking at. Also, was this data for jacketed or boolits?

The Casull will push a properly constructed jacketed bullet WELL over 1400 fps. Some data that you will find may have been developed with bullets that just won't handle much more than that. The Sierra JHC comes to mind.....it'll rip apart at higher velocities.

I've also noted a fairly large variance in reloading data from one manual to the next. Most of the data I've seen was developed in long Contender barrels or the Freedom Arms revolver.....this data tends to be on the high end.

I can't really comment on the 454 vs. 44 mag though. I have virtually no experience with a 44 mag but I do enjoy my 454 SRH.

44Man, what boolit would you recommend for whitetails while shooting the 454 Casull (7.5" SRH)? The buck in my avatar was shot with a 300g XTP/Mag and left virtually no blood trail....double lung with a very small exit through off side shoulder. I want to - :castmine:
It shows the 300 mag XTP is a little too tough for deer. I don't have a .454. You might be better off with the 240 mag XTP for deer while the 300 gr would be better for very large animals. I seriously believe a heavy WLN or WFN at .45 Colt velocities would work fine for deer or anything for that matter.
You are seeing what I have seen and when a bullet does not work right, even once, it is time to change. The quest for more velocity puts a strain on bullet selection. You are doing the right thing, questioning performance.
That is the reason I got away from the 240 gr XTP in the .44. All bullets were recovered against the hide on the off side. Very little blood on the ground but good damage in the deer. However a quartering shot or bone hit might result in a lost animal. Those pretty mushrooms just open too fast. Going the other way with a bullet too tough and you just get holes. That is where the large meplat shines--UNTIL YOU GET TOO FAST! Now controlled expansion is needed, not too fast and not so much that penetration suffers.
Experience with your gun will prove the best teacher. A clean, fast kill with a large blood trail without blowing meat to kingdom come is what you want. It is a narrow path!

[Heavy lead]

It is (300 xtp mag) good on pigs though, before I was "born again" I used them instead of boolits.

[jack19512]

Jack19512, I'm curious as to which manual you were looking at. Also, was this data for jacketed or boolits?







The manual is a Sierra Edition V and the bullets were jacketed. Bullets for the 44 and 454 were of identical type. I have had this manual for a while and it is possible that it is not up to date.

[trappst]

Sorry, I hope that didn't come off as something bad. It wasn't meant that way.

I have the Sierra V manual in my lap right now. If you read the intro page for the 454 Casull (last paragraph), it explains why the 300g velocity is higher than the 240g. It's just bullet construction.....the lighter Sierra can't handle the veloicty that the Casull is capable of.

Pulling the Hornady 7th edition off the shelf, it shows the 240g XTP/Mag running 1850 fps with AA#9 or H110. Data was developed in a 7.5" Freedom Arms. Is a load that hot fun to shoot? Nope, even in my 7.5" Ruger SRH with scope base, rings, scope and Hogue grips its definitely TWO hands full! :Fire: That old Bushnell didn't last long either.

Wifey bought me mine for Christmas a couple years ago. I use it for deer but I don't load it hot at all. My loads are manageable, even when in a treestand. The Hogue grips are GREAT although I never even shot the thing with the factory grips. :mrgreen:

[leftiye]

Yup, as Boom Boom told me today "Power doesn't matter if you miss" For both hunting and self defense it is better to shoot something that you CAN shoot than something with a lot of power. Even a wounded a$$#o!* might save your life. A missed so and so will probly just shoot you.

[jack19512]

Sorry, I hope that didn't come off as something bad. It wasn't meant that way.





No, it didn't come off as sounding bad. :-D My Pachmeyer grips have been shipped and should arrive anytime now. I am anxious to try them on my Ruger SBH and hope they help the finger busting problem.