So .....that explains the leading

[Wolfdog91]

So as y'all know I've been messing with cart in my Mosin and today I experienced something with it I have experience with shooting cast yet. Leading. Noticed it at the table around the crown and picked at it a little and sure enough it's leading ( along with shooting all 20 test rounds before realizing my scope rings where loose [emoji1751][emoji23])
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No big deal I prepped in advance for this ( had to double check some stuff but I had what I needed still) but was confused as all get out . I mean I've shot cast out of my AR and .22hornet way faster then this with no problems . So while I was scrubbing her out I went down the check list and everything was there ,powder coat procedure, sizing, gas check, velocity,neck expansion...then something told me to check the alloy. Now I generally use a pretty hard alloy like 16 on the low side 19 -20 on the high side, because I play around with high-er velocity stuff alot. Well I got some sheet tin the other day which is supposed to be pure lead and supposed to be good for fill out so I've been adding a little to my mix thinking the little I've been adding shouldn't hurt too much.....yeah well I checked and according to my lee tester I'm at like 7.4bhn that is STUPID SOFT for anything other then paper patch of muzzleloaders as far as I'm aware ...least that's what all the books say ,so yeah....that explains that. Now I gotta try and dig though my wheel weight buckets to get enough clip on weights to make my old mix again ... Boy imma just order 50lbs of Lyman #2 alloy next month and just run off of that stuff for a while because this scrapping and scrounging for lead is for the birds lol. Not like I save money on this anyway [emoji23]
Another funny little learning experience
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Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[Hannibal]

It will be interesting to see what results you have next time around *IF* the only thing you change is going to a harder alloy.

Change more than one thing it's going to be left to speculation.

[Winger Ed.]

Different hardness alloys have both good & bad qualities for different applications.
You need it harder for rifle speeds than handguns,,,,, but getting it so hard it gets brittle can be a problem too.

[Hannibal]

My experience has been 16-20 BHN shouldn't be a problem unless he's also after expansion.

[Wayne Smith]

You didn't say what you sized to and what your barrel measures. Make sure they are big enough for your barrel, not just up to the standard MN size.

[Hannibal]

One other thing to consider. You need to check the hardness of an alloy at the same age. If you tested an alloy within days from casting and again after weeks from casting they likely won't be the same.

[mnewcomb59]

Lyman #2 is 5-5-90. If you dilute it to 3-3-94 then drop in water after you powder coat you will probably get about 16 BHN and 90% or more weight retention with a cup point. 4-4-92 starts to get more brittle. Some people get good results with 5-5-90 but either I'm a mixing and measuring dummy or it actually isn't good for weight retention once it expands. From what I have seen 3-3-94 has the best weight retention at 1600-2100 fps and it can be water dropped to equal or exceed the hardness of 5-5-90 from 400-450 degrees.

[charlie b]

I also got tired of trying to find scrap lead that I knew the composition. I just buy it now. Rotometals Lyman #2 works for everything I shoot these days.

[Hickok]

Wolfdog, I fell your pain....that leading really sucks!:groner:

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Throat and bore diameter may be the culprits to your leading, maybe more than lead hardness. Yes, time spent chasing 'cheap lead' (mystery metal?), fuel for the truck make Rotometals, other lead sellers inexpensive, especially here in Wyoming where EVERYTHING is at least a fifty mile drive. FedEX, that Brown Truck, and our poor postal lady with those Boxes of Lead bring it right to the shop. Modern online and delivery really make living out here much better. Again bore fit and maybe throat fit should fix the leading, long ago I plated a Marlin 30-30 bore, filled the micro-groves with very hard lead, went to .311 from .309 and everything got much better - same lead.

[waksupi]

Have you tried slipping a bullet into a fired case mouth? There should be slight resistance. If the throat isn't filled, the rifle won't be happy!

[super6]

Wolf dog, I have some mono type I could send, It is in Ingots, But will harden that soft lead up on the hurry up side! Send me a PM, It is yours for the shipping costs. It will not take much. Just gotta do the math.

[WRideout]

I have seen leading strips like that from my 380 auto. It really surprised me. I suspect that my alloy was just too soft, as you discovered. For my pistol ammo I normally use range scrap with a bit of tin, and a little superhard (I think the hard alloy is really melted down lead chilled shot.)

Wayne

[Super Sneaky Steve]

You can use soft lead with a gas check and PC.

[bruce381]

off the subject but that is a cool lee hardness tester tool holder thing did you make it or is for sale somewhere?

[Half Dog]

^^^^Ditto?

[Shiloh]

Your bore hasn't been counter bored.

Shiloh

[littlejack]

I can't tell if that's the look of worry, or determination?

[j4570]

I like that holder too! That would make using the Lee tool better. I might have to try to make one in wood.

That sucks about your alloy. I bought some alloy recently here on CB and tested it with the Lee and it was spot on.

I am tempted to buy only guaranteed in the future.

[hendere]

Sorry for the problems. Hopefully just too soft.

So where'd you get that Lee Hardness Tester stand?

[DougGuy]

One other thing to consider. You need to check the hardness of an alloy at the same age. If you tested an alloy within days from casting and again after weeks from casting they likely won't be the same.

And neither will the diameter be the same!

[Oldfeller]

Check that crown job for a sharp rolled up metal edge that is scraping lots of lead off the bullet as the bullet exits.

If you feel a sharp scraping edge, you have found your problem.

A counter bore would fix this, and protect the actual functional new "muzzle exit" from any further cleaning rod wear out into the future.

Big shavings like that right at the muzzle say "leftover scraping edge" to me.

Seeing leading in the last inch in front of the poor muzzle job says "cleaning rod muzzle wear" which will make for rotten accuracy all by itself.

Seeing huge scrape chips like that from powder coated bullets means you are dealing with a physical, out of spec inwards deflected sharp scraping edge issue that requires a counter bore to completely fix it. Look at 4:00 to 5:00 position, see the deflected metal from the poor crown job with the resulting lead scrapes clustered around it.

It is very obvious and distinct.

319007

[popper]

Soft alloy and higher pressure doesn't help. You didn't state the load. I've gotten that on several ARs, along with red PC at the muzzle. Caused by blowby (gas cutting). Vapor lead and PC deposit at the crown. Interestingly, didn't seem to effect accuracy. Muzzle gasses are almost always super and at 45 deg to bore. Slower and hot stuff sticks. Same as a lube star. Interesting, my marlin has a rounded muzzle and collects NO alloy.
Get Superhard that is mostly Sb vs #2. Much less expensive way if you have a supply of softer stuff.

[Hannibal]

Check that crown job for a sharp rolled up metal edge that is scraping lots of lead off the bullet as the bullet exits.

If you feel a sharp scraping edge, you have found your problem.

A counter bore would fix this, and protect the actual functional new "muzzle exit" from any further cleaning rod wear out into the future.

Big shavings like that right at the muzzle say "leftover scraping edge" to me.

Seeing leading in the last inch in front of the poor muzzle job says "cleaning rod muzzle wear" which will make for rotten accuracy all by itself.

Seeing huge scrape chips like that from powder coated bullets means you are dealing with a physical, out of spec inwards deflected sharp scraping edge issue that requires a counter bore to completely fix it. Look at 4:00 to 5:00 position, see the deflected metal from the poor crown job with the resulting lead scrapes clustered around it.

It is very obvious and distinct.

319007

Looks like a Hot Mess all the way around to me.

I'd get the leading out and THEN look at the crown.

[Wolfdog91]

Check that crown job for a sharp rolled up metal edge that is scraping lots of lead off the bullet as the bullet exits.

If you feel a sharp scraping edge, you have found your problem.

A counter bore would fix this, and protect the actual functional new "muzzle exit" from any further cleaning rod wear out into the future.

Big shavings like that right at the muzzle say "leftover scraping edge" to me.

Seeing leading in the last inch in front of the poor muzzle job says "cleaning rod muzzle wear" which will make for rotten accuracy all by itself.

Seeing huge scrape chips like that from powder coated bullets means you are dealing with a physical, out of spec inwards deflected sharp scraping edge issue that requires a counter bore to completely fix it. Look at 4:00 to 5:00 position, see the deflected metal from the poor crown job with the resulting lead scrapes clustered around it.

It is very obvious and distinct.

319007

Well in all fairness it only got like that after I took one of my little key chain doo hickies and picked at it

[j4570]

Wolfdog,

I still want to know about your holder gadget for your LEE hardness tester. I’ve searched the internet and found some but really like the one you have.

Hopefully you will get the leading issues sorted

Jason

[Wolfdog91]

Wolfdog,

I still want to know about your holder gadget for your LEE hardness tester. I’ve searched the internet and found some but really like the one you have.

Hopefully you will get the leading issues sorted

Jason

O sorry about that, yeah I'm not sure who made it really , I bought that lee tester a few years back when I got on here and first started casting and the guy threw it in with the tester , it's just a 3-D printed deal with two holes , one for the microscope one for the light

[j4570]

Wolfdog,

Thanks for the reply. Maybe I’ll take a try at making one out of wood. I just don’t have a printer. I just liked that particular design.

Does the hole for the light have a stop to keep the flashlight from falling through?

That guy could make some money selling those.

Jason