Is This the Beginning of the Battle of Gog and Magog? [Archive]

pricedo

10-09-2023, 10:18 AM

It very may be .... but the Church has not been removed from the earth....what I am seeing is something like the old WWII Axis which involved Germany, Italy, and Japan....now the AXIS is the Russians, China, Middle East, and N. Korea. N. Korea is supplying Russia with weapons and ammunition. A good many of the Arabs have sided with Russia and China has set its eye on Taiwan and world dominance.....I see WWIII coming at a time when our borders are not secure and only God knows how many Chinese military are already in place! Add to that the worst and weakest president at the helm.....I am praying that Americans wake up and demand that our leaders do the right thing! Thus ends my rant!

... check the Bible ... "other stuff" has got to happen before the final battle

Baltimoreed

10-09-2023, 10:50 AM

No, the world’s not evil enough.

Alabama358

10-09-2023, 11:38 AM

Could we be seeing the beginning of the battle predicted in the Bible?

No...

Biblical view (not Hollywood's or best selling author's view) of end times events...

Revelation 20: 7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

1. Tribulation (roughly 3 1/2 years)
2. Great Tribulation (a short season or period of time)
3. Rapture, Christ comes in the clouds to collect his saints (Twinkling of an eye)
4. GOD pours out his wrath on the earth in judgment of the wicked (Roughly 3 1/2 years)
5. Christ returns with his Saints to rule and reign for a 1000 years (1000 years)
6. Satan is loosed from the Pit and goes out to gather the nations to come against Christ and the camp of the saints...the beloved city, Jerusalem and is destroyed with the fire of GOD. (After the 1,000 year reign and rule of The Lord and his Saints)

I DO think the recent events are VERY significant... but NOT the battle of Gog and Magog unless we missed the minimum of the 1,007 years of events that must happen first. (I say minimum because the Bible doesn't really stipulate how long it takes Satan to gather his army from the four corners of the world and leads them to slaughter)

ioon44

10-09-2023, 02:08 PM

When did satan get put in his prison?

Revelation 20: 7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

justindad

10-09-2023, 02:20 PM

There has to be a third Jewish Temple on the Mount first. Honestly, we could have that in 6 months.

Good Cheer

10-09-2023, 02:53 PM

Yall think the Rev20 war is the same as Ez38?

Alabama358

10-10-2023, 03:08 PM

Yall think the Rev20 war is the same as Ez38?

Yes, as I understand it... Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20 are talking about the same battle...
The battle of Gog and Magog are ONLY mentioned once in the Old Testament Ezekiel 38 and once in the New Testament Revelation 20

Ezekiel 38 was what some would call a duel or split prophecy. The nation of Israel at that time was in Captivity/Bondage... so it had current meaning for those living at that time and also a forecast Regarding latter years end times events

Revelation was written as... well, a book of revelation as it is so named.

Ezekiel 38

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
(Satan gathers his Army)

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
(Unwalled villages, living at rest, dwelling in safety, having neither bars nor gates... This is the polar opposite of current day Israel or anytime in the foreseeable future. On the other side of the ledger, after the 1,000 year reign of Christ... that is a perfect description of how the promise land will be.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone
(hailstones, Fire and brimstone destruction from above)

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(Clearly and unequivocally Says after the 1,000 year reign of Christ the battle occurs. Also destruction from fire from above like Ezekiel 38)

I guess some might say there is a Battle of Gog and Magog before the 1,000 year reign and then the same battle takes place again at the end of the 1,000 year reign... both with the same results... Satan and his ilk being destroyed with fire from above.
That position seems kind of silly and is usually made by folks trying to make scripture fit a Hollywood type script like the Left behind movie and or some other doctrine of men.

I am open minded on the subject but the Bible seems pretty solid with regards to the Battle of Gog and Magog

Your Thoughts?

ioon44

10-10-2023, 03:33 PM

Yes, as I understand it... Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20 are talking about the same battle...
The battle of Gog and Magog are ONLY mentioned once in the Old Testament Ezekiel 38 and once in the New Testament Revelation 20

Ezekiel 38 was what some would call a duel or split prophecy. The nation of Israel at that time was in Captivity/Bondage... so it had current meaning for those living at that time and also a forecast Regarding latter years end times events

Revelation was written as... well, a book of revelation as it is so named.

Ezekiel 38

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
(Satan gathers his Army)

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
(Unwalled villages, living at rest, dwelling in safety, having neither bars nor gates... This is the polar opposite of current day Israel or anytime in the foreseeable future. On the other side of the ledger, after the 1,000 year reign of Christ... that is a perfect description of how the promise land will be.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone
(hailstones, Fire and brimstone destruction from above)

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(Clearly and unequivocally Says after the 1,000 year reign of Christ the battle occurs. Also destruction from fire from above like Ezekiel 38)

I guess some might say there is a Battle of Gog and Magog before the 1,000 year reign and then the same battle takes place again at the end of the 1,000 year reign... both with the same results... Satan and his ilk being destroyed with fire from above.
That position seems kind of silly and is usually made by folks trying to make scripture fit a Hollywood type script like the Left behind movie and or some other doctrine of men.

I am open minded on the subject but the Bible seems pretty solid with regards to the Battle of Gog and Magog

Your Thoughts?

When did satan get put in his prison?

Revelation 20: 7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Alabama358

10-10-2023, 06:26 PM

When did satan get put in his prison?

Revelation 20: 7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Revelation 20: 1-3
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

1. Tribulation (roughly 3 1/2 years)
2. Great Tribulation (a short season or period of time)
3. Rapture, Christ comes in the clouds to collect his saints (Twinkling of an eye)
4. GOD pours out his wrath on the earth in judgment of the wicked (Roughly 3 1/2 years)
5. Christ returns with his Saints to rule and reign for a 1000 years (1000 years)
6. Satan is loosed from the Pit and goes out to gather the nations to come against Christ and the camp of the saints...the beloved city, Jerusalem and is destroyed with the fire of GOD. (After the 1,000 year reign and rule of The Lord and his Saints)

We know that Satan comes to power at the midpoint when he sets himself up in the Temple and declares himself as God and requires folks to take his mark and worship his image then continues to deceive the nations during the 2nd half during GOD's wrath
We know that he does not stay in power during Christ's 1,000 year reign.
We know that at the end of Christ rule and reign the whole lot of them, Satan and his ilk are wadded up and tossed into the Lake Of Fire for eternity

So to answer your question... Satan is chained at the end of the 7 year period after GOD's wrath before the 1,000 year reign of Jesus.
I don't think it is a coincidence that Christ Rules and reigns for a 1,000 years and Satan is locked in the Pit for a 1,000 years

What are your thoughts regarding when Satan is chained and Pitted?

Good Cheer

10-10-2023, 06:55 PM

Yes, as I understand it... Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20 are talking about the same battle...
The battle of Gog and Magog are ONLY mentioned once in the Old Testament Ezekiel 38 and once in the New Testament Revelation 20

Ezekiel 38 was what some would call a duel or split prophecy. The nation of Israel at that time was in Captivity/Bondage... so it had current meaning for those living at that time and also a forecast Regarding latter years end times events

Revelation was written as... well, a book of revelation as it is so named.

Ezekiel 38

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.
(Satan gathers his Army)

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
(Unwalled villages, living at rest, dwelling in safety, having neither bars nor gates... This is the polar opposite of current day Israel or anytime in the foreseeable future. On the other side of the ledger, after the 1,000 year reign of Christ... that is a perfect description of how the promise land will be.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone
(hailstones, Fire and brimstone destruction from above)

Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(Clearly and unequivocally Says after the 1,000 year reign of Christ the battle occurs. Also destruction from fire from above like Ezekiel 38)

I guess some might say there is a Battle of Gog and Magog before the 1,000 year reign and then the same battle takes place again at the end of the 1,000 year reign... both with the same results... Satan and his ilk being destroyed with fire from above.
That position seems kind of silly and is usually made by folks trying to make scripture fit a Hollywood type script like the Left behind movie and or some other doctrine of men.

I am open minded on the subject but the Bible seems pretty solid with regards to the Battle of Gog and Magog

Your Thoughts?

Hey there.
While always leaning strongly towards two events I'm still trying to make up my mind as to whether it's one or two.
A while back I listened to a presentation by Dr. Michael Heiser on the topic (youtube). As always, he was persuasive.
Chuck Missler did a presentation on the matters and yep, he was persuasive.

a danl

10-10-2023, 08:52 PM

I don't think we are seeing the starting of the Battle of Gog and Magog which is the great end times battle where Jesus returns.

Matthew 24:6-13
English Standard Version
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

Please "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem".

we have been hearing of wars and rumors of wars already for a long time now. also earthquakes have been happening all over the world and now famines are coming because of our defunct president. i do think the end is very near.

a danl

10-10-2023, 08:54 PM

... check the Bible ... "other stuff" has got to happen before the final battle

it's happening right before your eyes, better wake up and don't be caught off guard

Good Cheer

10-11-2023, 10:29 AM

Yep, since the beginning of the fig tree generation events have really been speeding up.

Alabama358

10-11-2023, 10:51 AM

Hey there.
While always leaning strongly towards two events I'm still trying to make up my mind as to whether it's one or two.
A while back I listened to a presentation by Dr. Michael Heiser on the topic (youtube). As always, he was persuasive.
Chuck Missler did a presentation on the matters and yep, he was persuasive.

Yeah... one of the other things I have a hard time reconciling with the two separate Battles scenario is...

Is Satan destroyed with Brimstone/Fire from above in both battles?
I have always thought that once GOD clouds up and rains Fire and Brimstone on you, that's it. You wont be coming back for round two

Similar to Sodom and Gomorrah
Jeremiah 50:40
40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.

Alabama358

10-11-2023, 01:34 PM

There has to be a third Jewish Temple on the Mount first. Honestly, we could have that in 6 months.

The problem is not with the actual construction of the Temple, as you say... that could be done rather quickly.
The problem is clearing out the Muzzies so that the construction can start... Which brings us to the current conflict.

The Islamist of the world are a Cool-Hand-Luke kinda hardheaded/passionate misguided bunch (about 1.8 billion of them) and it will take something very bloody and brutal before they are ready to cry uncle and sign a peace treaty giving up their rights to location.

According to Bible prophecy "It" will happen... but make no mistake, it will be ugly!

Good Cheer

10-11-2023, 07:13 PM

Is Satan destroyed with Brimstone/Fire from above in both battles?

I don't think so.

justindad

10-16-2023, 11:48 PM

Yall think the Rev20 war is the same as Ez38?

I just read some of Ezekiel and I don’t think they are the same anymore. The parallels in that passage with today are eery.
*
This statement was made by Iran’s foreign minister recently:

“Any step the resistance (Hezbollah) will take will cause a huge earthquake in the Zionist entity.”

And then we have Eze 38:18-19:

18 It will come about on that day, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” declares the Lord God, “that My fury will mount up in My anger. 19 In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will certainly be a great [a]earthquake in the land of Israel.
Keep in Mind that Russia is Iran’s ally. There are reports of Iran planning this attack with Hamas and Hezbollah. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia was also involved in the planning or contingency plans.
*
One way that this situation could lead to WWIII is for Russia to support Iran in response to USA supporting Israel. And if Russia and USA are fighting in Israel, then why not fight in Ukraine too? Boom - WWIII.

And then we have Eze 38:21:

21 And I will call for a sword against [a]him on all My mountains,” declares the Lord God. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother.
*
Eze 39:22 could make you think of a nuclear response, but verse 23 makes me think it’s more like GOD repeating Gomorrah:

22 With plague and with blood I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, [a]a torrential rain, hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 So I will prove Myself great, show Myself holy, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the Lord.”’
*
If we really do see USA openly fighting Russia in Ukraine… well, we have Eze 39:6:

6 “And I will send fire upon Magog and those who inhabit the coastlands in safety; and they will know that I am the Lord.
*
Iran has been sending drones and missiles to Russia to support the war in Ukraine. So Russia and Iran have both recently used a lot of their armaments. Now if Russia is going to give aid to Iran, it’s likely that they will have more soldiers to give than bombs. If they want to siege Jarusalem (after all, this attack is named Al-Aqsa Flood) in response the the Israeli siege of Gaza… they’re going to need soldiers for that.

Now here’s Ezekiel’s prophecy against Gog in 39:4:

4 You will fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops, and the peoples who are with you; I will give you as food to every [a]kind of predatory bird and animal of the field.
*
Eze 39:27 is the prophecy we saw come true in 1948, and 39:29 could very well refer to the third Temple:

27 When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall show Myself holy [a]through them in the sight of the many nations. 28 Then they will know that I am the Lord their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then I gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. 29 I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,” declares the Lord God.
*
Can you imagine what a miraculous victory for Israel would do to the world? Satan deceived people with Islam and drives them attempt Israel’s extermination. Israel could find itself outmanned and outgunned in a fight that started with anger over Jews praying at the Temple Mount. Now suppose this miracle is greater than 1948 and GOD undeniably makes himself known. I could see the third Temple on the Mount constructed after that. Eze 39:29 could very well indicate the return of the Ark of the Covenant to the Temple on the Mount!

Good Cheer

10-17-2023, 08:34 AM

Concerning Ezekiel, if chapter 37 is a prelude, in essence setting the table for chapter 38?
Who are the two sticks that get joined together, the Israelite peoples and Judah?
It's fascinating study to apply to the modern world.

ioon44

10-17-2023, 10:11 AM

How about Israel and the United States??????

Alabama358

10-17-2023, 11:11 AM

Concerning Ezekiel, is chapter 37 is a prelude, in essence setting the table for chapter 38?
Who are the two sticks that get joined together, the Israelite peoples and Judah?
It's fascinating study to apply to the modern world.

Ezekiel 37:13-16
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
1st stick- For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions (Southern Kingdom, 2 Tribes after the split)
2nd Stick - For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim (Northern kingdom, 10 Tribes after the Split)

At the rapture the old testament saints from the 12 tribes will be resurrected (regenerated) and reunited as one people... two sticks into one
This group will be where the 144,000 will be chosen. 12,000 from each Tribe.

This also fulfills where Christ says...

Mathew 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What are your thoughts on how Ezekiel chapter 37 ties to 38 and the 7 year period?

Good Cheer

10-17-2023, 07:54 PM

How about Israel and the United States??????

Looks as though the nation state of Israel and the US could fill the bill.

justindad

10-18-2023, 12:04 AM

There’s two main prophecies in Eze 37. They are similar, but don’t appear to be the same.
*
If I were to guess at dates for a few interesting verses, I’d go with this:
1) Eze 37:11 could be 1940 (Holocaust timeframe)

11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the entire house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are [f]completely cut off.’

2) Eze 37:12 could be 1948 (Israel is re-instated)

12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Behold, I am going to open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.

3) Eze 37:21-22 could be an ongoing process, which started around 1948.

21 And say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Behold, I am going to take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and no longer be divided into two kingdoms.

4) Eze 37:23 could be in the future, after all Jews have returned to Israel, and after those Jews accept Jesus as Lord.

23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their offenses; but I will rescue them from all their [i]dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.

5) Eze 37:27-28 reads like the end of time, after Satan is thrown into the pit.

27 My dwelling place also will be among them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 And the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.”’”

*
Then Eze 38 begins a different prophecy. I guess I have to say that I do not see Eze 37 as a prelude to Eze 38.

Alabama358

10-18-2023, 02:20 PM

There’s two main prophecies in Eze 37. They are similar, but don’t appear to be the same.
*
If I were to guess at dates for a few interesting verses, I’d go with this:
1) Eze 37:11 could be 1940 (Holocaust timeframe)
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the entire house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are [f]completely cut off.’
I think it is important to remember that the house of Israel was at the time of this prophesy in the midst of a 70 year babylonian captivity. Think about it, they are in captivity, they are scattered, they have no Temple and were being assimilated into the heathen culture of their captors. At some point it is certain that as a people they felt their bones were dried up and their hope had perished. I am not sure how you can overlook the reestablishment of the state of Israel and rebuilding of the 2nd Temple after the babylonian captivity and jump straight to 1940 holocaust

2) Eze 37:12 could be 1948 (Israel is re-instated)
12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Behold, I am going to open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel.
1948 Israel is re-instated?? Were graves opened, did people come up out of their graves in 1948? no and no.
On the contrary at the time of the rapture/regeneration the graves will be open and they will come out of their graves and will be regenerated with new uncorruptible bodies and will rule and reign in the land of Israel with Christ for 1000 years

I think it is best to understand the time frame and circumstances of what Israel was going through when Ezekiel 37 was being preached.

justindad

10-18-2023, 03:34 PM

Alabama358 - I don’t debate interpretations of scripture online like this. I tried a bible forum once, and that’s just not helpful. Feel free to share your thoughts, as I do, but that’s as far as I will go here. Everyone should read their Bible for themselves and pray from instruction from the Holy Spirit. I am certainly not an ordained minister.

Alabama358

10-18-2023, 04:18 PM

Good Cheer

10-18-2023, 04:45 PM

I never cared for Mark Twain but he really was right about what people know for sure but that's not true.
Bible study is like that. People know things they heard someone teach, not infrequently something twisted to support a particular theory. Then later they get around to researching for themselves and eventually find out "it just aint so".

Dom

10-18-2023, 05:34 PM

Will someone please quote me chapter & verse where it is stated there will actually be a third temple built. Not just animal sacrifices, but a third temple built.

Gray Fox

10-18-2023, 06:05 PM

Buckwheatpaul and others here. My wife and I were both career Army Intel types-I know, a contradiction in terms. We both had the privilege of briefing LTC Norman Swartzkopf when he was Deputy Chief of Staff of the Army for Operations and since we knew what he wanted to know and could defend our positions with true facts he was gracious. I testified before both the House and Senate committees on intelligence-with an Army civilian lawyer in my armpit each time to ensure I didn't stray too far from what everyone wanted to hear. After four years in DC I was a firm believer that Mother Teresa wouldn't last six months before the system found a way to co-op or corrupt her.

So, my question is, in what ways or means is it remotely possible to get our "representatives" to do what we know to be just and correct? The only voting system that might work is the purple finger we imposed in the ME, but what happens to the boxes full of ballots? This country is nowhere near the republic which our forefathers envisioned and may never have been, and we have lost it for the simple reasons they foresaw then. I wish our world was different, but we're going to have to make do with what we've got. Care for your loved ones and value your true friends as if they were gold. Gray Fox

Alabama358

10-18-2023, 06:10 PM

Will someone please quote me chapter & verse where it is stated there will actually be a third temple built. Not just animal sacrifices, but a third temple built.

Interesting question...

ioon44

10-18-2023, 06:34 PM

Here is a teaching I done on the subject.

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiIkT6WEWgE

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYI2W_nFZf4

elmacgyver0

10-18-2023, 06:41 PM

If true, I guess ammo won't do you much good.
You can send it all to me for disposal.[smilie=1:

justindad

10-18-2023, 07:22 PM

Will someone please quote me chapter & verse where it is stated there will actually be a third temple built. Not just animal sacrifices, but a third temple built.

Daniel 11:31 suggests a 3rd Temple.

Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.

That’s the ESV translation. The NASB translation doesn’t literally say “temple”.

Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination [a]of desolation.

Dom

10-18-2023, 07:56 PM

Here is a teaching I done on the subject.

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiIkT6WEWgE

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYI2W_nFZf4

Thank you.

Good Cheer

10-18-2023, 10:16 PM

Alabama358

10-19-2023, 02:51 PM

Will someone please quote me chapter & verse where it is stated there will actually be a third temple built. Not just animal sacrifices, but a third temple built.

The more I think about it ... this is a very significant question that needs fleshed out...

Thundarstick

10-19-2023, 03:58 PM

It not in the Bible! Is because of misinterpreted eschatology that a third temple be built. Without a temple, there can be no abomination that causes desolation placed in the temple.

ioon44

10-19-2023, 06:06 PM

It not in the Bible! Is because of misinterpreted eschatology that a third temple be built. Without a temple, there can be no abomination that causes desolation placed in the temple.

Check out part 2 of my video about the third temple.

Shiloh

10-19-2023, 07:43 PM

The temple isn't rebuilt yet.

Shiloh

justindad

10-19-2023, 11:16 PM

Daniel 9:17 has Daniel praying to GOD for his peoples’ atonement, he mentions “Your … sanctuary”. I think that’s referring to the first Temple on the Mount (which was destroyed at that time.)

So now, our God, listen to the prayer of Your servant and to his pleas, and for Your sake, Lord, let Your face shine on Your desolate sanctuary.
*
Daniel 9:24 describes the end of our age.

”Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the wrongdoing, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Daniel 9:25 tells us Jarusalem will be rebuilt in times of distress. Perhaps this was 1948.

So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with streets and moat, even in times of distress.

Daniel 9:26 mentions that the “city and the sanctuary” will be destroyed in the end times.

Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 seems to be referring to the appearance & destruction of the Antichrist.

And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate.”

So, I believe the third temple is in the Book of Daniel.

Note: NASB translations.

Thundarstick

10-20-2023, 06:40 AM

If you've the slightest open mind, check out James Tabor.

https://youtu.be/t3bqY7Z48So?si=sg98lghdp4WU0-im

ioon44

10-20-2023, 08:17 AM

Alabama358

10-20-2023, 01:24 PM

Check out part 2 of my video about the third temple.
I had a hard time understanding your Part 2 video and the main point thereof

So is it your position that there is no physical brick and mortar (3rd) Temple?
And that the Temple referenced in end times prophecy is the physical body of the born again Christian (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)?

If I misinterpreted it please correct me.

ioon44

10-20-2023, 01:56 PM

I had a hard time understanding your Part 2 video and the main point thereof

So is it your position that there is no physical brick and mortar (3rd) Temple?

The need for a physical brick and mortar (3rd) Temple is not supported by scripture, but one could be built by the Anti-Christ.

And that the Temple referenced in end times prophecy is the physical body of the born again Christian (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)?

If I misinterpreted it please correct me.

Yes, that is what I understood form the research I did.

I also reserve the right to be wrong, we only see through the glass darkly.

Good Cheer

10-20-2023, 03:48 PM

That Christians comprise a temple doesn't mean there won't be one built by people of an anti-Christian religion so don't get all balled up over what the temple is. If you were the devil then who would you tap for the construction? Heh, and who would you tap for the funding?

Thundarstick

10-21-2023, 05:27 AM

Yes, do a search on James Tabor and understand what he believes and teaches, not someone I would put any trust in.

Tabor identifies as a liberal Christian and is known for his progressive views on issues such as gender equality and LGBTQ+ rights.

You don't have to like Tabor to appreciate the way lays out the scriptures in historical context, especially when it comes to apocalyptic teaching. It's somewhat ironic to see how preachers to this day are still trying to make apocalyptic scripture apply to the things that are going on in our time, just as every generation before has. Even in Jesus day these apocalyptic scriptures where we'll known. Why do you think everyone was selling everything they had, and openly sharing with everyone? Is because they thought, "he's coming soon, why do I need all this worldly stuff?", that's why. If you are so sure now, why not do like our first century brothers and sell all you have? Why do you worry about politics, or your children's financial future, if you have faith your man (teacher, preacher) has it rite this time?
Don't get me wrong! He's coming back. But these false interpretations didn't just start with Darby, was picked up by Schofield, and have permeated most protestant Christian teaching. No, these apocalyptic teachings have been going on for ever! The current interpretation of apocalyptic scriptures was never taught in the early church, and they certainly lived through some very dark days.
I stated, if you're the last bit open minded, give Tabor a listen, if your 100% convinced that after these thousands of years you've got it rite, then don't. As far as someone's personal character, I wouldn't have to dig very far too find teachers of every faith who have committed grave sins. (We had a Baptist preacher here that was convicted of plotting to have his wife killed for another woman! Does that mean his teachings where flawed, or that he's fallible?)
If anyone wants to hear a different view, backed up by scripture and put into historical context, check it out.

pmer

10-21-2023, 08:32 AM

I'm not well read on this but couldn't Isreal just use the dome as the third temple? It's right there. That would get the gloves to come off.

Good Cheer

10-21-2023, 11:03 AM

Hi pmer.
There are specified ceremonial, dimensional, architectural and orientation requirements for the temple building to satisfy.

Good Cheer

10-21-2023, 11:08 AM

About "Why now?"...

Entering into the third day during the fig tree generation is a one time deal.

Alabama358

10-23-2023, 09:41 PM

Yes, that is what I understood form the research I did.

I also reserve the right to be wrong, we only see through the glass darkly.

After consideration of this theory.... I find it very thin.
When a person is born again they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit... said differently, your body becomes the Temple for the Holy Spirit, that was the point of 1 Corinthians 6:18-20

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

One would have to believe that Satan evicts the Holy Spirit to take over the Temple or shares residence with the Holy Spirit to claim he is God... Both have a 0.0 chance of happening.

That being said... it is still interesting that that a 3 Temple is not spelled out in scripture.

And point of fact, even if the current day Jews were to build a 3rd Temple and started doing sacrifices... It would not be GOD's house (The Temple of GOD) anyway because as Christ said if you don't have the Son You don't have the Father. I think it is common knowledge that current day Judaism does not acknowledge Jesus is the Christ.

1 John 2:22-23
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

So maybe it is a counterfeit Christ setting himself as God in a counterfeit Temple

2 Thessalonians 2:4
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Fake God in a fake Temple may be the reason for no scriptural mention of an official 3rd Temple?

Thoughts?

Good Cheer

10-24-2023, 10:16 AM

If they want their temple and they want their coming false messiah then why shouldn't they get to enjoy them? Is that tough love? A mean thing to say? Or just the way it's gonna be?

Alabama358

10-24-2023, 11:02 AM

If they want their temple and they want their coming false messiah then why shouldn't they get to enjoy them? Is that tough love? A mean thing to say? Or just the way it's gonna be?

Tough love...lol, If it not had been for Moses, GOD was going to show them some tough love

Exodus 32:9-10
9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

ioon44

10-24-2023, 02:12 PM

After consideration of this theory.... I find it very thin.
When a person is born again they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit... said differently, your body becomes the Temple for the Holy Spirit, that was the point of 1 Corinthians 6:18-20

18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

One would have to believe that Satan evicts the Holy Spirit to take over the Temple or shares residence with the Holy Spirit to claim he is God... Both have a 0.0 chance of happening.

That being said... it is still interesting that that a 3 Temple is not spelled out in scripture.

And point of fact, even if the current day Jews were to build a 3rd Temple and started doing sacrifices... It would not be GOD's house (The Temple of GOD) anyway because as Christ said if you don't have the Son You don't have the Father. I think it is common knowledge that current day Judaism does not acknowledge Jesus is the Christ.

1 John 2:22-23
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

So maybe it is a counterfeit Christ setting himself as God in a counterfeit Temple

2 Thessalonians 2:4
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Fake God in a fake Temple may be the reason for no scriptural mention of an official 3rd Temple?

Thoughts?

I am not dogmatic about this teaching, not a hill I would die on.

"Satan evicts the Holy Spirit to take over the Temple" I also don't believe this can happen, but we can be tempted and oppressed.
1 John 2:1
King James Version
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

So if or when we sin, have we given Satan a place in the temple of the Holly Sprit and need to repent and ask for forgiveness so Satan will be cast out?

Jesus Christ defeated Satan on the cross 2000 years ago, so if Satan finds a place in the temple of the Holly Sprit it is because we have opened a door for him to enter.

Alabama358

10-24-2023, 03:12 PM

I am not dogmatic about this teaching, not a hill I would die on.

"Satan evicts the Holy Spirit to take over the Temple" I also don't believe this can happen, but we can be tempted and oppressed.
1 John 2:1
King James Version
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

So if or when we sin, have we given Satan a place in the temple of the Holly Sprit and need to repent and ask for forgiveness so Satan will be cast out? I would have to say no, I think Satan can trick us, influence us to do stupid stuff, sway us to covet or lust after things that we shouldn't but in no way can possess the body of a born again saved Christian that has been sealed until the day of redemption.

Jesus Christ defeated Satan on the cross 2000 years ago, so if Satan finds a place in the temple of the Holly Sprit it is because we have opened a door for him to enter.

Matthew 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

When the Lord gives us the end times playbook in Matthew 24 he says "IF it were possible" that is to say, that it is NOT possible to deceive the very elect with his signs and wonders.

I think Satan fools folks in the minor day to day worldly stuff now but when it comes to the End Times big stuff, the Elect will roll their eyes and say "Come Lord Jesus"

1hole

11-02-2023, 10:36 PM

Could we be seeing the beginning of the battle predicted in the Bible?

We may live to see that battle but this is not the time. It seldom gets mentioned but Psm. 83 clearly tells us of a Jewish war that begins and ends in Israel's total victory before the Tribulation begins but it IS quite possible that what we are seeing today is setting things up for that pretrib war.

Good Cheer

11-03-2023, 09:26 AM

We may live to see that battle but this is not the time. It seldom gets mentioned but Psm. 83 clearly tells us of a Jewish war that begins and ends in Israel's total victory before the Tribulation begins but it IS quite possible that what we are seeing today is setting things up for that pretrib war.

When you say that it is a Jewish war are you taking for granted that the Psalm 83 mention of Israel is specifically prophetic in calling out the name selected for the present day nation state?

Thundarstick

11-04-2023, 05:06 AM

https://youtu.be/q9IosIm7ZJ0?si=2xK3ixIpwzgOT0Kx

About Gog and Magog, if you care.

Good Cheer

11-04-2023, 06:38 AM

https://youtu.be/q9IosIm7ZJ0?si=2xK3ixIpwzgOT0Kx

About Gog and Magog, if you care.

Good morning Thundarstick. Listened with my coffee.

ioon44

11-04-2023, 09:13 AM

https://youtu.be/q9IosIm7ZJ0?si=2xK3ixIpwzgOT0Kx

About Gog and Magog, if you care.

No, I don't really care about anything James Tabor has to say.

Alabama358

11-05-2023, 04:27 PM

No, I don't really care about anything James Tabor has to say.

I enjoy your enthusiastic responses regarding Tabor.

I personally have never heard of him, but if he indeed stands with lgbtq+ freaks... I also have no interest in hearing, reading or watching anything he has to say.

Wolf wearing sheep's wool

Galatians 1:9
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1hole

11-05-2023, 10:53 PM

When you say that it is a Jewish war are you taking for granted that the Psalm 83 mention of Israel is specifically prophetic in calling out the name selected for the present day nation state?

Goodness Cheer, yes, I do believe the Book means exactly what it says. But, your question forces me to wonder, do you believe that the Book's national Order of Battle, as it's given in Psm 83, actually refers to a combined but doomed attack by Israel's present surrounding enemies ... or something else?

If Abraham's Jews (and their land) aren't Satan's most persecuted targets, what alternate prophetic Psm 83 land, state and people would you suggest might someday be called a mystical non-Jewish "Israel" until they are massively attacked from all angles by the finally unified and hate filled hordes of their bloody Islamic neighbors? (And yeah, sadly, I know the church at large has a lot of Jew hating self proclaimed Christians.)

Or, might you seriously suspect that those carefully named Islamic countries in Psm. 83 may finally work together to target some other unnamed country and people instead of foolishly attacking God's "present day nation state" of Israel?

Or, do you think perhaps present Israel and their IDF may eventually decide to abandon their Promised Land and relocate to another place before the 83 war attacks against them occur?

Or, ... goodness, there's too much to guess!! ?

Even so, I pray "Come quickly Lord Jesus."

Good Cheer

11-06-2023, 08:35 AM

Goodness Cheer, yes, I do believe the Book means exactly what it says. But, your question forces me to wonder, do you believe that the Book's national Order of Battle, as it's given in Psm 83, actually refers to a combined but doomed attack by Israel's present surrounding enemies ... or something else?

If Abraham's Jews (and their land) aren't Satan's most persecuted targets, what alternate prophetic Psm 83 land, state and people would you suggest might someday be called a mystical non-Jewish "Israel" until they are massively attacked from all angles by the finally unified and hate filled hordes of their bloody Islamic neighbors? (And yeah, sadly, I know the church at large has a lot of Jew hating self proclaimed Christians.)

Or, might you seriously suspect that those carefully named Islamic countries in Psm. 83 may finally work together to target some other unnamed country and people instead of foolishly attacking God's "present day nation state" of Israel?

Or, do you think perhaps present Israel and their IDF may eventually decide to abandon their Promised Land and relocate to another place before the 83 war attacks against them occur?

Or, ... goodness, there's too much to guess!! ?

Even so, I pray "Come quickly Lord Jesus."

It was a really simple question and you're trying to deflect all over the place.

ioon44

11-06-2023, 11:49 AM

I enjoy your enthusiastic responses regarding Tabor.

I personally have never heard of him, but if he indeed stands with lgbtq+ freaks... I also have no interest in hearing, reading or watching anything he has to say.

Wolf wearing sheep's wool

Galatians 1:9
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Don't take my word for it, do your own search and see for your selfie. Spiritual Discernment is lacking in a lot of the western church.

Alabama358

11-06-2023, 02:26 PM

Don't take my word for it, do your own search and see for your selfie. Spiritual Discernment is lacking in a lot of the western church.

No thanks I think I'll pass... the time would most defiantly be better spent reading something I know to be 100% accurate.
I think folks spend way to much time on you-tube videos in search of stuff that is in their bible.

Alabama358

11-06-2023, 02:34 PM

If Abraham's Jews (and their land) ."
Hi 1hole, welcome back

What is an Abraham Jew?
Are all the folks that live in Israel considered Abraham Jews?

1hole

11-06-2023, 09:12 PM

It was a really simple question and you're trying to deflect all over the place.

Questions, especially simply off-the-wall odd questions, don't raise themselves. Questions rise from the asker's different point of view and for different purposes; questions are not always honest or transparent so if it's not clear I don't like to guess what anyone is really looking for. Thus, when I'm directly asked a very odd question I want to know it's unspoken motivation.

Note that my last post I made no deflections or accusations. I simply mentioned a couple of possible interpretations behind your previous query and questioned you for clarification.

So, now I'll ask you as clearly and straightforward as possible; "Do you have a valid reason for the very odd "simple" question you put directly to me?"

Thundarstick

11-06-2023, 10:15 PM

If you've got even a little crack for your mind to open, here's Tabor,s latest concerning what's going on today concerning floating prophecies.

https://youtu.be/cBpCYRLyJRA?si=zQrxlTU0PXtpOuKm

Good Cheer

11-07-2023, 11:04 AM

Questions, especially simply off-the-wall odd questions, don't raise themselves. Questions rise from the asker's different point of view and for different purposes; questions are not always honest or transparent so if it's not clear I don't like to guess what anyone is really looking for. Thus, when I'm directly asked a very odd question I want to know it's unspoken motivation.

Note that my last post I made no deflections or accusations. I simply mentioned a couple of possible interpretations behind your previous query and questioned you for clarification.

So, now I'll ask you as clearly and straightforward as possible; "Do you have a valid reason for the very odd "simple" question you put directly to me?"

Several names were considered for the nation and Israel was selected from among them.

What I asked was "When you say that it is a Jewish war are you taking for granted that the Psalm 83 mention of Israel is specifically prophetic in calling out the name selected for the present day nation state?"

Asking if you are taking for granted that the Psalm 83 mention of Israel is specifically prophetic in calling out the name selected for the present day nation state is as straight forward as it can get. If you think that's odd, OK.

1hole

11-07-2023, 03:24 PM

Several names were considered for the nation and Israel was selected from among them.

Sooo... in your view, the British and French choosing today's name of "Israel" for the Holy Land was simply chance and, therefore, the name means nothing special within the prophetic context of the Bible's Psm 83?

What I asked was "When you say that it is a Jewish war are you taking for granted that the Psalm 83 mention of Israel is specifically prophetic in calling out the name selected for the present day nation state?"

Yes.

Asking if you are taking for granted that the Psalm 83 mention of Israel is specifically prophetic in calling out the name selected for the present day nation state is as straight forward as it can get. If you think that's odd, OK.

I find it very straight forward and very odd.

I think the 1918-1920 British/French collaborators who split up the Turkish lands as they wished and reassigned the Biblical name to the Promised Land were led by the Holy Spirit, not humanistic chance. And I don't know of any other land that could ever be called the Bible's (Psm 83) "Israel".

After 1948 much of the decayed lands of Palestine were restored to productivity by hard working Jews. If that land was abandoned by the Jews today the native Palestinians would soon restore it to a dusty, stinking pig sty, just as they did to Gaza when the Jews turned it over to them.

That contested land has long been viciously fought over by other Arabs who themselves despise the destructive "Palestinians" and refuse to let them immigrate. So, rationally, no other prophetic land could ever expect to be called the Israel of Psm 83.

You still don't say what drives your (very odd) question. ???

Good Cheer

11-08-2023, 11:02 AM

"Sooo... in your view, the British and French choosing today's name of "Israel" for the Holy Land was simply chance and, therefore, the name means nothing special within the prophetic context of the Bible's Psm 83?"

Well, the British and the French didn't choose the name and no, I didn't indicate any thoughts on my part for the matter one way or the other. But here are a few to chew on. It could be the luck of the drawl for the least objectionable name when they were up against the deadline to vote for one, Harry Truman was waiting for the name to be written in on the documents and every name discussed had a historic, political or practical downside to it. And it could be people inappropriately interposing meanings into Psalm 83. And it could be an act of our creator to say wake up and pay attention because there are reasons for Him telling you what to look out for. In '86 there was a book published that discussed the possibilities of prophetic content not only in the words of some of the psalms but literally in the structure of the King James as concerns the Book of Psalms. It pointed out that there was demonstrable correlation to observed events of the 20th Century up until that time (mid 1980's) and speculated that perhaps subsequent psalms could be indicators of things to come. This morning I've pulled that book back down off the shelf to give it another look. Meanwhile, I'll leave you to it.

"You still don't say what drives your (very odd) question. ???"

You're right on this one; there's been no statement from me as to why I asked.

ioon44

11-09-2023, 11:02 AM

I find item #3 interesting because of the current discussion.

https://www.skywatchtv.com/skywatchtv-program-archive/?sapurl=LytmM2M2L2xiL21pLytrd3NienEzP2JyYW5kaW5nPX RydWUmZW1iZWQ9dHJ1ZSZyZWNlbnRSb3V0ZT1hcHAud2ViLWFw cC5saWJyYXJ5Lm1lZGlhLXNlcmllcyZyZWNlbnRSb3V0ZVNsdW c9JTJCZGJ5anpwOA==

.429&H110

11-09-2023, 01:41 PM

ioon44

11-09-2023, 02:20 PM

Wikipedia is a free online encyclopedia that is written and maintained by volunteers around the world. It is hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation and is available in many languages, including English 1. According to the Wikipedia page on Antisemitism, it is defined as hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews 1.

I found a few web search results related to your question. One of the results is a Wikipedia page on Antisemitism 1. The page provides a comprehensive overview of the topic and does not suggest that Wikipedia itself is antisemitic. Another result is a blog post from The Times of Israel that claims that Wikipedia has a “decisively antisemitic slant” 2. However, this claim is not supported by any evidence and is not widely accepted.

It is important to note that Wikipedia is a platform that is open to contributions from anyone, and while the Wikimedia Foundation has policies in place to prevent hate speech and other forms of abuse, it is possible that some articles or edits may contain biased or inaccurate information. If you have any concerns about specific articles or content on Wikipedia, you can report them to the Wikimedia Foundation 1.

Alabama358

11-09-2023, 03:06 PM

Thank you for the question:
Abraham Jew
or
Abraham's Jew.

If you can believe Wikipedia, there is a long story under "What is a Jew?"
Seems Jews can't agree, either.

Kinda like asking "What is a Christian" and expecting an easy answer.
I am pretty sure I know what a woman is, though.

Thanks for the comment .429
You are correct... there seems to be a wide chasm between what the definition of what it means to be one of Abraham's Jews.
The folks that do not want to have their opinion challenged on the subject have made certain words a taboo to even mention, for example

Ask a question about "the Jews" and your anti-semitic
Ask a question about "BLM" and your a Racist
Ask a question about this whole "gender thing" and your a homophobic
Say something positive about the sovereignty our country and you are a Xenophobe or White Nationalist

The question that I asked 1-hole regarding who he was referring to when he said "Abraham's Jews and their land" I was trying to get context on what he meant before commenting.

Thundarstick

11-10-2023, 08:33 AM

ioon44

11-10-2023, 09:13 AM

Wikipedia is a poor choice to base any Bible teaching on. I don't waste any time reading Wikimedia.

"It is important to note that and while the Wikimedia Foundation has policies in place to prevent hate speech and other forms of abuse, it is possible that some articles or edits may contain biased or inaccurate information. is a platform that is open to contributions from anyone, and while the Wikimedia Foundation has policies in place to prevent hate speech and other forms of abuse, it is possible that some articles or edits may contain biased or inaccurate information."

Good Cheer

11-10-2023, 10:41 AM

Here's what Wikipedia says on Gog and Magog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog

It appears to me that Abraham's Jews are anti-Zionist, while secular Jews (Israelis) are Zionist. Much like most all rapture theologies Christians are Zionist, and preterist theologies Christians are anti-Zionist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism

In the current environment preterist sentiments are often mistaken as pro-Islamic, but that's certainly not the case either.

It frequently seems to me that both sides throw the baby out with the bath water so I end up not being happy with the stands either take. Reminds me of the young Earthers versus the Darwinian evolutionists as I reject both of them for being made up phony baloney theories intentionally fabricated for the purposes of controlling the narrative and preventing people from learning the truth. Well, that's pro'bly enough of me impersonating Mrs. O'Leary's cow so I'll stop here. The hobby room really needs to be squared away and I'd best be about it.

.429&H110

11-10-2023, 03:31 PM

Alabama358

11-10-2023, 05:18 PM

Wiki is biased, but we can know they are biased and account for it.
Look up Hillary and get a page about how wonderful she is.
Wiki Trump and he is a very bad man.
For entertainment wiki "Trump Derangement Syndrome". They have got it.

The only Truth is the Bible, and the Bible kind of assumes we know what a Jew...was.

My idea is the Ottoman Empire, Persian Empire, is waiting for a Califf.
When Rus loses; the Caucases are Moslem, a power vacuum north and east of the Black Sea, Caspian,
would be a lot of hungry angry people that are really good at war.
I wonder how much oil and gas is under the Gobi desert and Tibetan Plateau...
How long are the Chinese and India going to wait for the "Tribes with Flags" to unite?
I took notice when Alex wrote "when you see Chinese troops in Ukraine, then worry"
They have indeed been there before.

.429
What is your opinion of who is actually Abraham's seed... or for the purpose of this thread Abraham's Jews (and their land)

Recently I had a conversation with the mail lady and she proclaimed that we were obligated to support "the Jews" because of what "the bible says" then she proclaimed that "anyone that supports the Jews will be blessed from God" and "anyone that goes against the Jews will be under God's curse"

I stood there scratching my head as she drove away waving and said "Remember what the Bible says... support The Jews"

I do know what Genesis 12:1-3 says

1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

The Bible obviously says that The LORD told Abram that he "HE" was under GOD's blessing but I don't she how that extends to everyone in 2023 that claims to be of Abraham. (Abraham's seeds)

Galatians 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

What did Christ himself say of the leaders of the Jews back in his day

John 8:31-32 (To the saved Jews who believed on Christ)
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 8:39&44 (To the unsaved Jews... the Pharisees )
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Even in The Book of Revelation (the only 2 times the Jews were mentioned) Christ refers to them as the synagogue of Satan

Revelation 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

With that being said not all Jews are the synagogue of Satan (some obviously are or Christ wouldn't have said so")
I think that the Christ believing, born again Jews are the children of promise.

Now if I was 35-40 years younger I would probably be packing my war paint and readying myself to go over and help them out... not because they are "The Jews" but because that garbage that happened October 7 was pure evil and those people need to be squashed like the bugs that they are.

Good Cheer

11-10-2023, 08:09 PM

It tends to displease everyone who has chosen a side in the arguments about the chosen but I'm sure that establishing the false ones has been used to reestablish the real ones in the Levant. Outside of that I can't think of anything much to say about them that hasn't been ridden 'til it dropped, beat to death and then made into sausage.

.429&H110

11-11-2023, 12:57 AM

Abraham is of Adam. They wrote all this down.
Moses found the tablets in Joseph's tomb, too heavy to carry, he transcribed them.
Had to tote old Joseph along to the Promised Land...
Who wrote Genesis1? God Himself, in clay.
My fellow Wednesday nighters shake their heads but...

Adam was made by God, given an X and a y
one X was copied as God made Eve

"Her seed and your seed.."
Satan has seed? Why yes, the Nephilim donated all the other genes the fallen earth is heir to.
But in one unbroken line, that original X was from Mary, and God himself supplied the y.
And so a miraculous virgin birth, Eve's seed of prophesy, perfect, immortal, the Last Adam.
Completely God and completely perfect man.
And Satan knows all about it, tried at every generation to kill that line that Satan knew would be his doom.

That is why the Children of Israel kept track of marriage.
Why the Raphalim in the area had to be wiped out.
There was one pair of XX gene that escaped the Flood in Ham's wife, the odd episode of Noah's wrath makes more sense if it was his daughter-in-law he was disgusted by, so Noah exiled her, the giants after the Flood descended from her and Ham.
Those genetic traces are still abounding, but diluted, though we do see some very very saintly people, and some very very evil people. And the promise is we can all be saved if we repent and are reborn. Born anew in the Holy Spirit.
Just my opinion of how we got here, and that our Bible is literally a history.
YMMV
Our Savior Himself charged us to evangelize: to teach the Good News.
I believe in the Flood because Jesus did.
Will there be a War at the end of the world? Promise.

Thundarstick

11-11-2023, 08:34 AM

.429
What is your opinion of who is actually Abraham's seed... or for the purpose of this thread Abraham's Jews (and their land)

Recently I had a conversation with the mail lady and she proclaimed that we were obligated to support "the Jews" because of what "the bible says" then she proclaimed that "anyone that supports the Jews will be blessed from God" and "anyone that goes against the Jews will be under God's curse"

I stood there scratching my head as she drove away waving and said "Remember what the Bible says... support The Jews"

I do know what Genesis 12:1-3 says

1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

The Bible obviously says that The LORD told Abram that he "HE" was under GOD's blessing but I don't she how that extends to everyone in 2023 that claims to be of Abraham. (Abraham's seeds)

Galatians 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

What did Christ himself say of the leaders of the Jews back in his day

John 8:31-32 (To the saved Jews who believed on Christ)
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 8:39&44 (To the unsaved Jews... the Pharisees )
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Even in The Book of Revelation (the only 2 times the Jews were mentioned) Christ refers to them as the synagogue of Satan

Revelation 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

With that being said not all Jews are the synagogue of Satan (some obviously are or Christ wouldn't have said so")
I think that the Christ believing, born again Jews are the children of promise.

Now if I was 35-40 years younger I would probably be packing my war paint and readying myself to go over and help them out... not because they are "The Jews" but because that garbage that happened October 7 was pure evil and those people need to be squashed like the bugs that they are.

I have to AMEN this!

So was the first covenant (with Abraham) completed in Christ, or not? If it wasn't, shouldn't we (Christians) all be Jewish converts? If it was, then who is God's people today?
I have a friend that states, we where grafted into the Jews, this is true. When we graft pecan trees, we remove everything but the root, and graft in a new branch, that bears the kind of fruit we want, we don't graft a bad branch to a perfect tree. To me the root is Abraham's promise, fulfilled in Jesus, and the graft being the gentile, to the root, but with the original branch perfectly able to be grafted back into one tree, making it a new tree.

So why the obsession with Isreal and the Middle East?