meaing of: "SWC hard casted bullets double lubed with ALOX and sized to the throats"

[worker]

SWC hard casted bullets double lubed with ALOX and sized to the throats


I came across the above phrase when somebody described what they use in a G20 (10mm) for hunting rounds.


What I would like to ask, is what exactly equipment do I need (hopefully some sample part numbers or links for everything) to cast, lube, size what the above phrase suggested.

Also what does 'sized to throats' mean?
I know how to do bore sizing with soft led (to basically measure the diameter of the bore between grooves), but what does 'throat sizing' mean in this context?

I also have to admit, I do not understand what double lubed mean, how to get that (and is it after sizing?)

[muskeg13]

I'll let someone else answer "sized to the throats".

In my experience, double lubed with ALOX either means, coat with (Lee liquid) ALOX, size, then coat with Lee Liquid ALOX again to coat the exposed unlubed driving bands, or as in my case, it means run the boolit through a Lyman/Saeco/RCBS lubricizer to size and compact stiff lube in the boolit's grease grooves and then tumble lube with Lee Liquid ALOX to coat the exposed driving bands and add a bit more lube to the boolit. For me, this second method has been useful in eliminating leading at over 2000fps with air cooled ww alloy with gas checks with relatively soft alloy more suitable for hunting.

[mehavey]

Barring excessive reduction, one does not need lube to size lead bullets using a Lee push-through die.
Given that, standard Lyman #2 alloy and a single thin coat of ALOX is more than enough lubrication
for even high[er] pressure/speed bullets in a handgun. (and 10mm pressure's roughly the same as 357)

As to 'sized to throat' (vice 1-2 thou over groove), I have no idea what that means except in a revolver.

"Hard Cast" has become an over-used/under-defined sales mantra that has no meaning unless accompanied
by a Brinell#. (and at that point one doesn't need the term "Hard" cast) 8-)

[Castaway]

Your groove diameter determines the optimal size for the bullet. Your bullet should be 0.001” - 0.002” greater than the groove diameter. In a perfect world, your throats 0.0005” - 0.001” more than your bullet. I don’t think many accurate revolvers meet the above criteria, but it’s a starting point. I wouldn’t worry much if the three don’t match and you have the accuracy you desire. Back to the question you asked, ideally the poster you referenced did all three but also could have just sized the bullet to fit his throats. Not enough information to tell which

[gwpercle]

" SWC " is Semi- Wad Cutter .

"Hard Cast" is over used meaningless term . A bhn # of 10 or 12 would tell you something ... but hard cast ...meaningless . Like saying I was driving fast .
How fast is fast ... how hard is hard .
As my rule of thumb I think COWW when I see "hard cast" but that's just me .

" Double lubed with Alox " is tumble lubed , then sized and then tumble lubed again with Lee Liquid Alox .

Sized to the " Throat(s)" ... in a 10 mm semi-auto the part of the barrel just in front of the chamber and just before the rifled barrel begins is called the Throat or Leade . In a revolver every chamber has a throat ... the boolit leaves the case , passes through the chamber throat then goes into the forcing cone and into the revolver barrel ... 6 shot Revolvers have 6 throat's ...
Semi-Auto pistols have 1 barrel , 1 chamber and 1 throat .
The throats can be larger or smaller than barrel / groove diameter ...
Here is where things get confusing ... sizing to throat / barrel groove diameter or what ???
Hope this helps somewhat .
Load Safe ,
Gary

[mdi]

I believe gwpercle is 100% right.

When I started casting in the early '90s I never heard or read the term "Hard Cast" dealing with bullet BHN. IIRC it was used to differentiate between cast and swaged. Seems newer casters picked it up to mean anything above BHN 10...

[Minerat]

I double lube using a softer moly-bee wax lube then use BLL to cover the wax lube so it is not sticky when reloading. I also tumble lube using BLL some "hard cast" hard lubed commercial bullets I purchased before I started casting my own. It keeps the commercial lube on the bullet until loaded.

BLL= https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?259285-NEW-!-!-T-L-Liquid-Lube

[Harter66]

Hard cast is a sloppy term that I've seen best defined to mean any alloy other than pure lead or lead/tin only .

The XD 40 has a long throat area ahead of the lands , close to.1. It's .402 in the 1 I had .

[fredj338]

No throat to size for in a semiauto. Double lubed could be several meanings but since it says Alox I would expect two coats, before or after sizing. I also doubt a true SWC for a semiauto. More likely a truncated cone with a small cutting shoulder.

[jsizemore]

I do a pound cast of my guns chamber. I can measure the pound cast to know what the throat entrance size is. If there's enough room in the neck of the chamber to size a bullet to throat dimension and seat in the brass and chamber than that's what I do. You can get by sizing to groove dimension + .001-.002 if your shooting softer alloy with fast burning powder. If your shooting hard cast, like 12+ BHN, then you'll be shooting slower powder and your bullet won't obturate fast enough and will gas cut in the throat. I size to throat or half a thousandth over.

[rintinglen]

Was the author of that sentence referring to his S&W 610? Because otherwise it makes no sense: there is only one throat, or leade in an autoloader barrel. I strongly suspect that either he got to thinking faster than he could type, or he doesn't know what the heck he's trying to say.
English as a second language?

[Walstr]

gwpercle: Very nice summary. Thank you for the time.

[Walstr]

Yeah, I also final tumble mine in powdered mica for storage to prevent "globbing". Wally

[gwpercle]

gwpercle: Very nice summary. Thank you for the time.

:drinks: Always glad to share what little casting knowledge I have ...
If I can help someone ... it makes my day :happy dance:

Gary

[DougGuy]

What you can do is push a soft lead ball or boolit through the bore, then see if it will go through the cylinder throats from the front. If not, then the throats are smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel, and they will undersize your boolits as you fire them, the boolits will exit the cylinder at throat diameter.

If it will go, then you can size the boolits to a light drag fit in the throats. That's what they mean when they say size to the throats. You may have to hone out a sizing die to get the exact fit you want, IF you can't find one that's already the size you need.

[Gobeyond]

If you are buying from a commercial bullet caster, they may be asking for your groove size or throat in a revolver so they can size to that for you. Everything else was covered well, so goes w/o saying.

[worker]

thanks all for such great insights.
Reading the replies do not think I can measure the throat diameter of a G20, since that's part of the barrel.
But I do understand that I can measure it in a revolver, so that's a good info.

Seems like Lee mold
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010212281?pid=642322

or RCBS
https://www.rcbs.com/bullet-casting/moulds/bullet-mould-10mm-200-swc-518/16-82068.html

will make those bullets.

I have to sort out sizing equipment, and the lubing twice part

" Double lubed with Alox " is tumble lubed , then sized and then tumble lubed again with Lee Liquid Alox

[Wayne Smith]

I would go for the Iron RCBS mold, simply because of the construction. I'm amazed that they did not link to mold handles, as you would need theirs or modify (thin) Lee handles. LLA is Lee Liquid Alox, and comes with their sizing die. I would suggest you look at the NOE system if you do or will shoot multiple calibers. For a single caliber the Lee sizer is adequate. Lubing with LLA and sizing with the Lee sizer, assuming you already have a reloading press and basic casting equipment, should get you up and shooting.