Pedersoli Rolling Block Help - ID / Sight help / Loads

[OddBore7five]

Hi all, First time poster.... very long time lurker.

I, after a lot of thought and patience bought a Pedersoli Rolling Block (45-70) that came up for sale locally with very little information.

TL/DR:
Does anyone know what model of Pedersoli the below is?
What model / brand is the front tunnel so I can get replacement inserts.
Anyone have any idea on smokeless / white powder starting loads for 400+gr paper patch loads

I have just received it and have begun looking over it, the rifles history is unknown and the research I have done has lead to more questions.
Its a Pedersoli Barrel engraved with Cat.3516
318589

The front tunnel sight is also a bit confusing as i'm trying to get replacement inserts.
It reminds me of the Parker Hale type tunnel (I had one on my old target rifle which is long since sold) but can't confirm
318590318591318592

I took some quick measurements (mm) before I flew out back to work.
318593

If anyone has any information it would be greatly appreciated...

I have some plans for when I get back from work ~3 weeks time.

Disassemble, clean and inspect (is there anything to look for)
Slug bore (confirm it as I have been told its .460)
Clean and lube all items
Check trigger pull
Clean and lube tang sight
Replace the current tang sight eye cup with a new Hadley eye cup.


I would also like to start looking at creating some starting point loads for it 400-500gr pills, preferred paper patching (with a comprised wadding - vege/felt/lubed felt) as opposed to lube groove as I still have some gear left over from my old Martini Henry that I parted with and would like to avoid BP for the time being.
(happy to be advised other wise on the paper patch / lube groove with smokeless)
I have a mass stock of ADI powders smokeless powders (I shoot and reload for magnum cartridges [.375HH / 7RM / 7RUM / 6.5PRC / 338LM / 30PRC]) and from my research the powders can be used 45-70 as a trapdoor load. (ADI has a pretty extensive website as well as the below from Nick Harvey's reloading book [missing the 400-500gr loads])

318594

I have no interest in shooting competition here in aus but love pushing my own limits and competing against myself (.22lr at 300m and the likes)

I would appreciate any insight / information and help.

Cheers,

OddBore7Five

[Mr.doug]

If those are double set triggers it is probably a John bodine model. Front sight could be
A Lyman 17a . I have one but never put anything but holy black in it.

[koger]

I have one with a half round/ocatagon 30" heavy barrel. Mine came with Pedersoli rear peep sight and and a Pedersoli globe front. all used. I replaced the front globe with a 17A, globe front sight,as inserts come with it and there are a bunch of aftermarket like Lee Shavers that have great replacment insert sets. If you want, I have some extra inserts i can send you some extra inserts for a 17A so you can try them, free. As to your questions about loads, I dont see why you would want to paper patch, when a barrel/chamber has to be set up to shoot them correctly, oyr you will have to buy expensive molds. I would encourage you to get a 340gr or 405 gr Lee double cavity, and Powder coat them, and load them unsized. You might also want to think about a 500-550 gr postell for longer range work, past 600 yds. They will upset and fill the bore nicely, and shoot very accurately, with Unique, 3031, 4198, or several other powders. I have settled on Unique, for most of my target shooting needs, low recoil and very good accuracy. Unique also at between 13-15 grs for the above mentioned bullets, duplicates the black powder velocity, with great economy as there are 7000 gr of powder in 1#, so a little of it goes a long way. Several online vendors have it available now in !# or 8#. I have shot all the above mentioned bullets/powders with great results in three different Ped. Rolling blocks, with bores that range from .459-460, target shooting and hunting, without breaking the bank, or your shoulder. No need for veg wads or anything else over the powder, as unique is not postion sensitive, nor are the other powders I mentioned, as you will have a case full of enough powder to ignite with no difficulties.I have been loading/shooting/casting for 45/70 rolling blocks, hi walls and sharps for nearly 40 years. The advice i am giving you here, will lead to a lot of fun shooting, with very little headache and experimentation, and low cost as well, IMHO. Hope this helps you and is not confusing.

[Don McDowell]

That looks like a lyman 17 sight.
You'll likely get the best accuracy with a .460-.462 diameter bullet due to the generous chamber diameter that Pederolis tend to have.

[BLAHUT]

I use a .461 diameter in pure lead, 515 gr, FP from lee, 27 grs of 5744, book said this is a trapdoor load, very accurate in my gun, another load is 41 grs of blackhorn209 weighed, about 1200 FPS, over powder wad with no airspace, under a 3r, 500 gr pure lead from lee, very accurate in my gun.... Both lube grove. Try lee shaver for inserts ?? Unique powder, 10 grs to start and work up, no over powder wad needed ? I found 16 grs of unique to be very mild and accurate in my gun... It will take a little time to find what the gun likes ???

[Bad Ass Wallace]

G'day mate, from Queensland

Looks like you have a 'John Bodine' model with 34" barrel and the front sight would be standard Pedersoli. I load mostly Swiss black FFG but I also use a lot of 2206H in smokeless loads.

I have plenty of cast boolits that I use, including the 545gn PGT that was developed expecially for the Pedersoli rifles. Happy to send you some to try.

https://i.imgur.com/1jCf0Fnl.jpg

L to R 545gn PGT, 500gn CBE, Pedersoli 500gn spire point, 500gn Lyman tapered spire point, and Hensley & Gibbs 420gn.

https://i.imgur.com/azoXSdKl.jpg

[OddBore7five]

Thanks guys for the commentary so far.

I'm under the same opinion that its either a John Bodine 30 or a Silhouette 30".
To see if I can get an definitive answer I have reached out to Pedersoli as well to see if they can help with SN# and Cat.#

*edit: Got word back from Pedersoli and quickly too, it is a John Bodine 30" which was delivered in 2002. They sent through manuals as well for the rear sight and rifle. They have also sent through a list of part numbers as recommended spares (firing pin assembly).
There is more information in the email as well to do with proof target which they are trying to locate. Really surprised I got a response this fast*

Still figuring out the forum controls and response controls, but I would respond to all otherwise.
I'll try respond with the below though.

I am hoping for a 17A as I can get some spares from some of my mates who shoot target comp, although they haven't been able to confirm for me as most of us work away.
Thanks for the offer Koger, I may take you up on the offer in the future.

One more question would be dies. The rifle came with a set of fairly old and rusty Super Simplex dies.
If I go through the process of replacing them are there any recommendations?
Most of my dies are Forster and Redding, but I do have Hornady and RCBS for the milsurp and odd cartridges I own.


As to your questions about loads, I dont see why you would want to paper patch, when a barrel/chamber has to be set up to shoot them correctly, oyr you will have to buy expensive molds.
I would encourage you to get a 340gr or 405 gr Lee double cavity, and Powder coat them, and load them unsized. You might also want to think about a 500-550 gr postell for longer range work, past 600 yds. They will upset and fill the bore nicely, and shoot very accurately, with Unique, 3031, 4198, or several other powders.
I have settled on Unique, for most of my target shooting needs, low recoil and very good accuracy. Unique also at between 13-15 grs for the above mentioned bullets, duplicates the black powder velocity, with great economy as there are 7000 gr of powder in 1#, so a little of it goes a long way. Several online vendors have it available now in !# or 8#. I have shot all the above mentioned bullets/powders with great results in three different Ped. Rolling blocks, with bores that range from .459-460, target shooting and hunting, without breaking the bank, or your shoulder. No need for veg wads or anything else over the powder, as unique is not postion sensitive, nor are the other powders I mentioned, as you will have a case full of enough powder to ignite with no difficulties.I have been loading/shooting/casting for 45/70 rolling blocks, hi walls and sharps for nearly 40 years.
The advice i am giving you here, will lead to a lot of fun shooting, with very little headache and experimentation, and low cost as well, IMHO. Hope this helps you and is not confusing.

Much appreciated Koger and it gives me some food for thought with the powder selection. The reason for paper patching as an option is I went down the path of BP / paper patching with a Martini IV so have a fair bit of equipment and materials.
It is the appeal of lower cost for reloading. As initially said with the Mag cartridges above there is A LOT of powder going into them and a lb doesn't go too far. I want something a little different to challenge me. I think the options above open a few doors for me.


I use a .461 diameter in pure lead, 515 gr, FP from lee, 27 grs of 5744, book said this is a trapdoor load, very accurate in my gun, another load is 41 grs of blackhorn209 weighed, about 1200 FPS, over powder wad with no airspace, under a 3r, 500 gr pure lead from lee, very accurate in my gun.... Both lube grove. Try lee shaver for inserts ?? Unique powder, 10 grs to start and work up, no over powder wad needed ? I found 16 grs of unique to be very mild and accurate in my gun... It will take a little time to find what the gun likes ???

Thank you BLAHUT, I am looking at the reloading manuals under the trapdoor loads as a guide and its good to see that others are also loading smokeless. I do look forward to ladder testing and working up a few loads that work well out of it.


G'day mate, from Queensland
Looks like you have a 'John Bodine' model with 34" barrel and the front sight would be standard Pedersoli. I load mostly Swiss black FFG but I also use a lot of 2206H in smokeless loads.
I have plenty of cast boolits that I use, including the 545gn PGT that was developed expecially for the Pedersoli rifles. Happy to send you some to try.
https://i.imgur.com/1jCf0Fnl.jpg
L to R 545gn PGT, 500gn CBE, Pedersoli 500gn spire point, 500gn Lyman tapered spire point, and Hensley & Gibbs 420gn.

https://i.imgur.com/azoXSdKl.jpg

G'day mate!
Where about are you located? I'm in SE QLD.
2206H is one of the powders I am looking at possibly using. It's one that I have a fair bit for my smaller milsurp cartridges I own.
WOW! that is a collection, what chamberings do you have there?
That would be amazing if I could get some (They are huge!)
Where did you get them? or do you own moulds to cast your own?


The one thing I love about this sport is the wealth of knowledge available.
Thank you all :)

Cheers.

OddBore7Five

[Bad Ass Wallace]

On a small farm just east of Kingaroy!

The BPCR rifles that I have are Sharps 1874 in 50/70, 45/90, 45/70, 40/65, a Pedersoli Hi-wall in 38/55, 1884 Springfield trapdoor in 45/70, a few Martini Henrys in 577 'Super' Snider, 577/450, Swedish rolling block in 12.7x44R and my pride & joy a Pedersoli 44/40 pump together with an 1886 sporting lever rifle in 45/70.

I cast all my own boolits on site then I can just go around the corner and fire them for testing.

https://i.imgur.com/WNrzTmhl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/q8vH9K6l.jpg

[OddBore7five]

On a small farm just east of Kingaroy!

The BPCR rifles that I have are Sharps 1874 in 50/70, 45/90, 45/70, 40/65, a Pedersoli Hi-wall in 38/55, 1884 Springfield trapdoor in 45/70, a few Martini Henrys in 577 'Super' Snider, 577/450, Swedish rolling block in 12.7x44R and my pride & joy a Pedersoli 44/40 pump together with an 1886 sporting lever rifle in 45/70.

I cast all my own boolits on site then I can just go around the corner and fire them for testing.

https://i.imgur.com/WNrzTmhl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/q8vH9K6l.jpg

Kingaroy!
I'm on the Sunshine Coast and I head to Linville a few times a year.
Small world

That's a mighty fine collection you have in the BPCR range.
Wood and BP :grin:
I would love to get a SR1889 in 7.5x53.5 BP one day, I have a K11 and K31 and they are both incredibly accurate with smokeless.

You have the ability that I dream of at the moment, being able to tinker and then go around the corner and shoot.
I normally travel to Amamoor / Linville when I want to test and trial. One can only dream at the moment about owning the land.

Would love to get some of those Boolits off you at some point.

Cheers,

OddBore7Five

[Tazman1602]

If you email Pedersoli with serial and model they will ID for you.

Art

[Mr.doug]

Bad ass Wallace , what is this 545 gr. PGT bullet that u have a pic. Of. Can u give me
Some specs. On it and we’re did you get the mould from. Thanks

[Bad Ass Wallace]

The PGT boolit was the brainchild of the late Dick Trent (and others) who was a Pedersoli rep in the USA. My lathe-bored mould was made by Steve Vicory (now retired).

The bore riding nose casts 0.452" while the body 0.460".Upon loading that nose just tickles the top of the lands. It should be remembered that Pedersoli 'target' barrels are made with progressive depth rifling, usually for 45 cal 0.0015" from chamber to muzzle and for 50cal 0.002" taper. This feature (unique to Pedersoli) allows alignment of the nose prior to firing.

To take advantage of this feature, you need either a Hiwall or 1874 Sharps action to cam that round into the chamber, I used to have two RB's but these don't have much camming action to seat the boolit into the rifling.

Groups shot with the PGT have been very accurate and consistant.

https://i.imgur.com/E7vhjh2l.jpg

Group shot with Pedersoli 50/70

https://i.imgur.com/7Rj84YXl.jpg

[Chill Wills]

For what it's worth. The late Dick Trink spelled his last name Trink with a "k". Not Trent.