Range Report: '09 Argentine Carbine

[Kraschenbirn]

Made it to the range for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon. Snow had all melted off but, thanks to a couple inches of rain on Wednesday, everything past the high power firing line was downright soggy...like up to 8" "soggy" in places.

Mainly made the trip to test-fire some slightly different BP loads in my .38-55 Highwall but also dragged along the '09 Argie...the latest addition to my milsurp collection...with a dozen rounds each of three different loads using the Lee .312-160-2R: 24.5 gr. H4198, 18.0 gr 2400 (Hercules), and 28.0 gr H4895.

Due to the condition of the range and the limited number of available rounds, all firing was at 50M. Load #3 (H4895) was nothin' to write home about but both #1 and #2 look to be "keepers."

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr217/kraschenbirn/20090212_02.jpg

Shot the 4198 load first and spent my first six rounds adjusting sights. Next five went into this group. Last shot (no photo) took out a fragment of clay pigeon laying on the face of the berm behind the target stand.

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr217/kraschenbirn/20090212_01.jpg

Above are the last six of the twelve rounds I had loaded. Lower group was shot first, then the upper after elevating the rear sight one graduation and tapping the front sight over an RCH. Not too shabby for a 99 year-old rifle, huh?

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr217/kraschenbirn/20081220_04.jpg

Bill

[Bret4207]

Schweet! I have an '09 barreled action, wish it was complete. The worst part is the action is so soft it actually deformed when I put an action wrench on it. Soft as butter, but beautifully made. I had another in the shop that was dead nuts like new. We used to be able get these for $35-40.00. I spent years trying to move that gun. Finally sold it to a guy from Jersey that had a camp and wanted "beeaarrr pearteckshun".

[Buckshot]

.............That's some pretty nice shooting. Your 4198 is about what I use for any old full power military type cartridge and a mod-heavy weight slug. That slug you're quoting is the SKS one right? You should try the Lee C312-185-R. Great slug and about what the original Argentine bullet weighed.

..............Buckshot

[Kraschenbirn]

.............That's some pretty nice shooting. Your 4198 is about what I use for any old full power military type cartridge and a mod-heavy weight slug. That slug you're quoting is the SKS one right? You should try the Lee C312-185-R. Great slug and about what the original Argentine bullet weighed.

..............Buckshot

Have tried the Lee 185 with both H4895 and IMR4198 and wasn't happy with the results but I think it's, most likely, my mould (nose a little undersize for this rifle's bore) rather than the boolit design. Would try a little beagling but that particular mould has already been reworked to provide fodder for my LE #4Mk1 and, because it shoots so well in that piece, I'd rather not monkey any further with it. Will probably pick up another Lee C312-185 mould one of these days and, if necessary, lap out the nose portion of the cavities for a better "bore rider" fit.

Yep, the mould is the one Lee lists for the 7.62x39. I size to .313 and boolits from my mould finish (lubed w/GC) at right around 162 gr. Gonna run up enough of both loads this afternoon to get some chronograph readings and 100M groups next time I get out to the range.

Bill

Btw (for Buckshot) - I picked up on using 4198 in the 7.65x53 from one of YOUR earlier posts on the '91 Argies.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Hello Kraschenbirn. Got a few questions. Firstly did you use dacron in all loads you tested? What was the alloy you were using? Thirdly, is your `09 a carbine or full length rifle and is it a DWM? Mine is a full length, full mil. DWM that I haven`t tried working a load for yet - have had the thing for about 15 years or more. About 8 yrs. ago I got 200 rds. of Norma brass from a small shop that was closing, so I`ve got brass for it, or I could make my own out of `06 cases. So your testing is a step in the right direction for me. I know what you mean by your range conditions, I`ve got the same here in Mich. Thanks. :-D:-D:-D Robert

[Larry Gibson]

RE 4198 and 4895;

I've found the lighter weight .30/.31 bullets (160 and under) almost alway shoot best with the "slow" faster burning powders like 4227, 5744, 4957 and 4198, especially with the dacron filler. With 4895 the pressure, even with a dacron filler, isn't sufficient enough for consistant ignition (uniform internal ballistics) untill youare well over the RPM threshold velocity wise. In either case of of inconsistant ignition or too high velocity accuracy can suffer.

Krashinbirn's good shooting with the 4198 load and not so good with 28 gr of 4895 is a good example of this. The 28-30 gr of 4895 with the dacron filler should shoot well under the 185 gr bullet though.

Larry Gibson

[Kraschenbirn]

Hello Kraschenbirn. Got a few questions. Firstly did you use dacron in all loads you tested? What was the alloy you were using? Thirdly, is your `09 a carbine or full length rifle and is it a DWM? Mine is a full length, full mil. DWM that I haven`t tried working a load for yet - have had the thing for about 15 years or more. About 8 yrs. ago I got 200 rds. of Norma brass from a small shop that was closing, so I`ve got brass for it, or I could make my own out of `06 cases. So your testing is a step in the right direction for me. I know what you mean by your range conditions, I`ve got the same here in Mich. Thanks. :-D:-D:-D Robert


Hokay, let's see what I can do for you.

1) Dacron fill with the 4895 and 4198 loads; no fill with the 2400.

2) Alloy is 3 parts Lyman #2 to 1 part Lino, water-dropped for 22.5-23.5 BHn.

3) '09 is a cavalry model carbine; second production series (1910 or early 1911) mfg by DWM.

4) Norma brass used for 4198 loads, cases formed from Mil '06 (WCC54) for 2400 loads; WLR primers used for both.

Hope this helps.

Bill